When needs and values clash

[Netzach]

I enjoy fascist me-under-you Man Woman pokey pokey pull my hair, I suck cock sex with a particular male who makes me feel that way. It's not the only kind of sex I like, and I wouldn't marry it. But I love it with this person.

Because I can't imagine getting through this world without the message that this is the consummate of all sex and what I SHOULD want getting through. So I just do it and let myself do it, and it's awesome.

 

[intothewoods]

And for anyone who thinks that it's SO MUCH MORE VALID to be a career woman than a stay at home mom try out this phrase:

"Oh I'm not interested in having children."

See how far you get.

Valid according to whom? Whoever they are, they chap my fucking hide. A friend of mine took a women in business leadership class. The entire class consisted of work-life balance for moms. What. The. Fuck.

It's everyone's problem. That's what I wish women and men could rally around. Women are given an earful if they don't want to have kids (men too, but not to the same degree), and earful if they work, and earful if they don't work. Choice? Some are very privileged to have the choice between working and staying at home, and I am (or was) included in those numbers. However, even that choice isn't a meaningful one.

I'm not one to say to a sahm that she's letting down the sisterhood if she stays at home. But...without opening the whole can of worms more than it already is...we're not done at isn't it fabulous we have a choice. Because many women don't have the choice, and the choice sucks.

We haven't even touched on the subject of men and their gender norms, but it's important as well. I need to get back to work, but I have so many thoughts on this. At one time, men were raised to be the providers and the head of the household. That's no longer so in fashion. But what the heck has replaced it? I mean, gender aside, we are raising generations of really fucking entitled kids, and that's part of the problem. But in the same way women should have the autonomy to decide what being a woman means to them (i.e., perhaps having children does not fulfill some ache in your ovaries), men must also have models for what being a man is. I still see so many dads who want a gold star because they changed a diaper once. Well, if you have a family in which both parents work jobs with long hours, both parents need to be, well, PARENTING. It's just simply not talked about between couples and it's maddening.

 

[Netzach]

I read the bolded bit and had a jaded chuckle...

"Oh their father has primary custody; it was the right thing to do."

That's the point at which women look at me like I've grown six heads.

Totally. I can't even imagine. No, I can. I just have to think of what my mother would whisper to me after you turned away. Ugh.

 

[Netzach]

Valid according to whom? Whoever they are, they chap my fucking hide. A friend of mine took a women in business leadership class. The entire class consisted of work-life balance for moms. What. The. Fuck.

It's everyone's problem. That's what I wish women and men could rally around. Women are given an earful if they don't want to have kids (men too, but not to the same degree), and earful if they work, and earful if they don't work. Choice? Some are very privileged to have the choice between working and staying at home, and I am (or was) included in those numbers. However, even that choice isn't a meaningful one.

I'm not one to say to a sahm that she's letting down the sisterhood if she stays at home. But...without opening the whole can of worms more than it already is...we're not done at isn't it fabulous we have a choice. Because many women don't have the choice, and the choice sucks.

We haven't even touched on the subject of men and their gender norms, but it's important as well. I need to get back to work, but I have so many thoughts on this. At one time, men were raised to be the providers and the head of the household. That's no longer so in fashion. But what the heck has replaced it? I mean, gender aside, we are raising generations of really fucking entitled kids, and that's part of the problem. But in the same way women should have the autonomy to decide what being a woman means to them (i.e., perhaps having children does not fulfill some ache in your ovaries), men must also have models for what being a man is. I still see so many dads who want a gold star because they changed a diaper once. Well, if you have a family in which both parents work jobs with long hours, both parents need to be, well, PARENTING. It's just simply not talked about between couples and it's maddening.

Yes to all that.

Thank God the only ache in my ovaries was a cyst.

 

[Fauna]

In my eyes this reflects one of the classic gender roles. Taking the major responsibility for a smoothly running everyday life is a burden most women take on. I see it as a form of service. Not having to worry about if there will be toilet paper or eggs tomorrow is a rather common male privilege.

Being financially in charge of the household does not reflect classic gender roles, unless I missed something. My mom gives my dad an allowance and I do the same with my husband. I think that makes me in charge of something. I think that went the other way in the past.

I don't see running things as a "burden," but a point of power. Your posts, to me, look like you are way over thinking things.

I'm college educated, have worked for two Fortune 100 companies. I've seen a lot of glass ceilings, believe me. I think what we experience in our own homes is of our making. We choose our mates and how things are run.

An earlier poster talked about balance in relationships. Nothing will ever be fair as in every other day I wash the dishes, its your turn to do the laundry, you keep the calendar this month and next month its my turn. My husband does what he is good at and I do what I am good at. We are both happy.

I've noticed that couples who focus on tit for tat fairness loose that ability to work together in the end because they get too focused on being "fair."

Someone else touched on the point too that the focus of the D/s relationship is the sub. I think this is true too. Think about someone who has taken the time to plan out a scene focused on yours and his sexual desires...

 

[00Syd]

I wanted to say, in a strange way, thank you for posting this. It has been a comfort to me. No matter what others will say, it is strange and sometimes alienating being a feminist and a submissive at the same time. I am a pretty involved feminist and maybe even a little radical. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that many mainstream people are made to believe that feminism is something it is not, viz., general unthinking egalitarianism or misandrony. It's much more complicated than that and much more involved.

In the end, I have to reconcile the two facts that I do not want women objectified and that, at the same time, I want to be objectified, in a sense. It can be pretty harrowing.

I myself am against women being objectified as a gender, for their gender, in general in society... I'm against that being the normal way of things... but when it comes to a persons personal life I'm for choice in all aspects, and there is no wrong choice.

I hope that makes sense.

I have always considered myself a feminist, but never had any struggle between feminism and submission. For me it was yes, I want general equality in society, and I want personal choice in the home.

 

[castagnus]

I myself am against women being objectified as a gender, for their gender, in general in society... I'm against that being the normal way of things... but when it comes to a persons personal life I'm for choice in all aspects, and there is no wrong choice.

I hope that makes sense.

I have always considered myself a feminist, but never had any struggle between feminism and submission. For me it was yes, I want general equality in society, and I want personal choice in the home.[/QUOTE]


I can't see the problem and find a proudly submissive woman, especially one of accomplishment, very alluring. As a single father (and an old one at that) I have no problems whatsoever in looking after my son alone - but when we were married and both working, we shared our tasks cheerfully and as required - except for the task of breastfeeding, which I selfishly left for my wife.

 

[Netzach]

I myself am against women being objectified as a gender, for their gender, in general in society... I'm against that being the normal way of things... but when it comes to a persons personal life I'm for choice in all aspects, and there is no wrong choice.

I hope that makes sense.

I have always considered myself a feminist, but never had any struggle between feminism and submission. For me it was yes, I want general equality in society, and I want personal choice in the home.

Just a moment of devil's advocacy - isn't the public sphere made up of people making personal choices? I also think that the most damaging sexism is institutionalized sexism, but where do those institutions come from? What backs them up?

My mother playing around with a dog collar in bed isn't it, but I sure the fuck think that "because you have a vagina you need to do dishes and if you have a penis you don't" is partly to do with it, no?

IOW, how you do SM behind closed doors has nothing to do with it. How you interact in front of your children with your SO, and more importantly what you tell them and what other permutations they are exposed to for people interacting has everything to do with everything. If you want to defer to your man, fine, but if you want to avoid the rather enraged and maladjusted adult, your daughter had better be getting some alternate broadcasts. If they two of you can't keep the natural D/s volume down, it can be other adults, even.

Because her pre-determined shit is going to bump up against what you're modeling in ways you can't predict.

Not that I know anything about that.

Again, I'm asserting that sexuality is a huge amalgam of choices and pre-determined factors, and reactions and very primal reactions relating us to others - if the question is "is submission in one's sexuality feminist?" the answer would be : 59099.

The question isn't right.

It's what you do in the voting booth, in the workplace, and in the boardroom that makes these realities for people, how you wash dishes. How you fuck is like "how you feel" or "how your hair grows."

 

[sexymom]

"Do you think your children are hip to this subtlety when Dad "corrects" you in front of them?

Do you think they feel this way when you correct them?"

I did have to struggle with this one at first, but they understand pretty well now. Basically, my kids don't think they should ever have to do anything they don't want to do. They know about the existence of authority, and admit- sometimes- that it's a necessary evil. They know I submit voluntarily; they don't understand that, but I doubt that it's unusual for kids to think their parents are wierd in some ways.

Both my husband and my father spent some time in the armed forces as officers, so we use a lot of military analogies around here. The way we explain the dynamic to the kids is that my husband is a captain, I am a lieutenant, and they are privates- maybe corporals or even sergeants as they get older and more responsible. Is a private or a lieutenant more valuable than a captain? Not on your life. (although lots of people treat them as less valuable). Is the captain better educated, more experienced, or from a higher socio-economic level? Not necessarily. In many cases, the captain and the lieutenant have exactly the same training. Does it really matter that the captain has authority over the lieutenant by act the government, and my husband has authority over me by my voluntary agreement? I really feel that the voluntary part makes it somehow more noble, but then that's just my opinion.

 

[Netzach]

"Do you think your children are hip to this subtlety when Dad "corrects" you in front of them?

Do you think they feel this way when you correct them?"

I did have to struggle with this one at first, but they understand pretty well now. Basically, my kids don't think they should ever have to do anything they don't want to do. They know about the existence of authority, and admit- sometimes- that it's a necessary evil. They know I submit voluntarily; they don't understand that, but I doubt that it's unusual for kids to think their parents are wierd in some ways.

Both my husband and my father spent some time in the armed forces as officers, so we use a lot of military analogies around here. The way we explain the dynamic to the kids is that my husband is a captain, I am a lieutenant, and they are privates- maybe corporals or even sergeants as they get older and more responsible. Is a private or a lieutenant more valuable than a captain? Not on your life. (although lots of people treat them as less valuable). Is the captain better educated, more experienced, or from a higher socio-economic level? Not necessarily. In many cases, the captain and the lieutenant have exactly the same training. Does it really matter that the captain has authority over the lieutenant by act the government, and my husband has authority over me by my voluntary agreement? I really feel that the voluntary part makes it somehow more noble, but then that's just my opinion.

That's cool. I'm just throwing out how I felt as the Dominantly oriented daughter of a very submissive woman, and my experience with this - consistently having someone other than mom as the decision maker. it did not work. There were a lot of other factors that make this situation probably a lot less healthy than yours, I'm just saying.

For me, the obvious hierarchy that placed *her* mother at the top and not her completely undermined any authority I needed from her. I completely resent her inability to say "fuck you mom, this is what I'm doing" and I completely resented her inability to give me boundaries I had to respect in a lot of areas.

Essentially I had this shitty feeling of complete powerlessness combined with this instability of the power vacuum.

I remember watching her with a new boyfriend and seeing her personality retreat completely every time she dated.

If anything gave me the message "be on top or die a thousand deaths" this was pretty much it.

I don't think you can ascribe this level of dispassionate logic to children. Maybe I wasn't the most logical child, but it's a question of interpreting what I see. All I know is myself as a child, and had someone trotted out the lieutenant analogy, I can sense the red-eyed rage that it would make me feel. Taste it. It's not logical, it's my personal programming as a Domme.

They say you date your father, I'm dating my grandmother. That's kind of funny.

 

[BiBunny]

Netz said everything I would've said, only more clearly and with less existential rambling. My politics don't come to my bedroom. Period. It's not much more complicated than that for me.

 

[00Syd]

Just a moment of devil's advocacy - isn't the public sphere made up of people making personal choices? I also think that the most damaging sexism is institutionalized sexism, but where do those institutions come from? What backs them up?

My mother playing around with a dog collar in bed isn't it, but I sure the fuck think that "because you have a vagina you need to do dishes and if you have a penis you don't" is partly to do with it, no?

IOW, how you do SM behind closed doors has nothing to do with it. How you interact in front of your children with your SO, and more importantly what you tell them and what other permutations they are exposed to for people interacting has everything to do with everything. If you want to defer to your man, fine, but if you want to avoid the rather enraged and maladjusted adult, your daughter had better be getting some alternate broadcasts. If they two of you can't keep the natural D/s volume down, it can be other adults, even.

Because her pre-determined shit is going to bump up against what you're modeling in ways you can't predict.

Not that I know anything about that.

Again, I'm asserting that sexuality is a huge amalgam of choices and pre-determined factors, and reactions and very primal reactions relating us to others - if the question is "is submission in one's sexuality feminist?" the answer would be : 59099.

The question isn't right.

It's what you do in the voting booth, in the workplace, and in the boardroom that makes these realities for people, how you wash dishes. How you fuck is like "how you feel" or "how your hair grows."

I don't have any grand answer to the problem. I guess I just feel like people can do whatever they like in the home, I may not always thing its right, but that's their choice. As for peoples private lives reflecting on society, well of course, but people shouldn't have the expectation of what they enjoy at home being the norm in society. Would people's private lives stop reflecting negatively on society if everyone grew up in homes where both parents were equal? In which both parents equally shared the burden of responsibility? Maybe its pessimistic of me to think this way, but I just don't think that we can't do any better than to hope we might get some good estimation of equal treatment in the public sphere while leaving people to make their own choices at home. What other option do we have?

Maybe my opinions on the issue will change if and when I have children, but for now, this is the only thing that really comes to mind. I wasn't coming to the problem with the mindset of "how would I feel if I had children?"

I'm not trying to equate submission with feminism, I just don't think they are mutually exclusive.

And yes, for me, submission is a sex thing not a political thing, which feminism clearly is.


ETA: I could have put all the much more clearly and succinctly but I just got back from class and my brain is fried, forgive me.

 

[rinka]

I was a child in the 70s - when the feminist shatter-the-****-glass-ceiling movement was Queen. I had it drilled into my head that I could do anything, be anything, succeed anywhere - the fact that I was a girl had nothing to do with how far I could go... right up to the point where I made the choice to pursue a career as a wife, mother, and homemaker.

I wasn't living up to my potential; I was giving too much power to my [now ex] husband (It was not a D/s based relationship, BTW); I was turning my back on all the hard work of the feminists who came before me; with my "attitude" I *obviously* wanted to keep women barefoot and pregnant.

Whenever this sort of discussion comes up, it (IMO) boils down to "well of course it's all about personal choice... [but if you choose the traditional route/don't make the accepted PC decision, you're contributing to the problem, you know.]" The attitude that a woman's choice to take a traditional role in society, or be submissive in a relationship, or whatever somehow prevents -



... to *me* that attitude (that women choosing submission/traditional roles/etc prevents that degree of power) is just as limiting as things were in a pre-feminist world, where women didn't have many choices/privileges, at all.

Thank you for letting us know where you come from.

I don't believe it's all about personal choice. And the whole concept of women being judged and questioned on choices they are forced to make is at the core for me. A dad can take his kid to the park for an hour and practically get a diploma for wonderfulness, while a mom who does it all the time will be judged by her kids behavior.

It's the same with not wanting kids or not living with your kids. Why should women always have to justify their choices to a much higher extent than men?

 

[rinka]

Rinka -

there's going to be conflict on this one if you're given to thinking about these things remotely like I am.

I have no interest in a sexual behavior that reinforces my politics, because honestly no one knows what that would look like. We'd have to have a few millenia of global equality for anyone to have a clue, and frankly I think it would be a sexuality I find dull.

Because this stuff is in our blood. For millenia. We're tainted beings trying to come up with SOME degree of justice in it all.

I absolutely feel that my desires, sexually, are reactions to a warped world, so they're warped reactions. As long as I'm not killing anyone, they're valid choices.

I definitely think you can be a feminist and a submissive. However I don't think that being submissive, dominant, or vanilla, or lesbian, or straight IS more or less feminist.

Watching my mother roll over every time she was confronted by anyone with a penis shaped me.
Watching my grandfather and uncle get to sit while I got yelled at to help with the dishes shaped me - I refused to do it as a kid, and I tend to be messy now to stake out my "not a fucking domestic" territory, not helpful in the long run, but interesting.

Every relationship involves a conflict in this area for me.

And I agree that no sexual orientation is more or less feminist. And pure sexual activities have very little to do with this for me. But I believe that the sex spills over into the rest of life. And when considering entering into a D/s relationship that reaches a bit further outside the bedroom doors I think it spills even more so.

 

[rinka]

Valid according to whom? Whoever they are, they chap my fucking hide. A friend of mine took a women in business leadership class. The entire class consisted of work-life balance for moms. What. The. Fuck.

It's everyone's problem. That's what I wish women and men could rally around. Women are given an earful if they don't want to have kids (men too, but not to the same degree), and earful if they work, and earful if they don't work. Choice? Some are very privileged to have the choice between working and staying at home, and I am (or was) included in those numbers. However, even that choice isn't a meaningful one.

I'm not one to say to a sahm that she's letting down the sisterhood if she stays at home. But...without opening the whole can of worms more than it already is...we're not done at isn't it fabulous we have a choice. Because many women don't have the choice, and the choice sucks.

We haven't even touched on the subject of men and their gender norms, but it's important as well. I need to get back to work, but I have so many thoughts on this. At one time, men were raised to be the providers and the head of the household. That's no longer so in fashion. But what the heck has replaced it? I mean, gender aside, we are raising generations of really fucking entitled kids, and that's part of the problem. But in the same way women should have the autonomy to decide what being a woman means to them (i.e., perhaps having children does not fulfill some ache in your ovaries), men must also have models for what being a man is. I still see so many dads who want a gold star because they changed a diaper once. Well, if you have a family in which both parents work jobs with long hours, both parents need to be, well, PARENTING. It's just simply not talked about between couples and it's maddening.

Exactly

In Sweden we have made some changes and a lot of work in this area. Now parental leave is divided equally between the parents, they get around six months each. Most families make it last a little longer. Two of those months can not be turned over to the other parent, but the rest can. The signals to fathers to stay at home for a few months with a baby or how many kids you have accumulated are strong. Many use this opportunity, most not so far. It's a slow process, but I do believe it makes a difference in the long run.

A dad used to taking care of the kids full time even if for a short period will probably be more likely to stay at home when they're sick, pick up at daycare and know how to dress them.

Effects of this will also trickle into workplaces, not only women have babies.

 

[rinka]

Being financially in charge of the household does not reflect classic gender roles, unless I missed something. My mom gives my dad an allowance and I do the same with my husband. I think that makes me in charge of something. I think that went the other way in the past.

I don't see running things as a "burden," but a point of power. Your posts, to me, look like you are way over thinking things.

I'm college educated, have worked for two Fortune 100 companies. I've seen a lot of glass ceilings, believe me. I think what we experience in our own homes is of our making. We choose our mates and how things are run.

An earlier poster talked about balance in relationships. Nothing will ever be fair as in every other day I wash the dishes, its your turn to do the laundry, you keep the calendar this month and next month its my turn. My husband does what he is good at and I do what I am good at. We are both happy.

I've noticed that couples who focus on tit for tat fairness loose that ability to work together in the end because they get too focused on being "fair."

Someone else touched on the point too that the focus of the D/s relationship is the sub. I think this is true too. Think about someone who has taken the time to plan out a scene focused on yours and his sexual desires...

I was referring to the part I bolded when quoting your post. I apologize if I offended you.

I don't need tit for tat fairness, but shared responsibility.

And I'm sure I overthink things, just how I'm wired.

 

[rinka]

Just a moment of devil's advocacy - isn't the public sphere made up of people making personal choices? I also think that the most damaging sexism is institutionalized sexism, but where do those institutions come from? What backs them up?

My mother playing around with a dog collar in bed isn't it, but I sure the fuck think that "because you have a vagina you need to do dishes and if you have a penis you don't" is partly to do with it, no?

IOW, how you do SM behind closed doors has nothing to do with it. How you interact in front of your children with your SO, and more importantly what you tell them and what other permutations they are exposed to for people interacting has everything to do with everything. If you want to defer to your man, fine, but if you want to avoid the rather enraged and maladjusted adult, your daughter had better be getting some alternate broadcasts. If they two of you can't keep the natural D/s volume down, it can be other adults, even.

Because her pre-determined shit is going to bump up against what you're modeling in ways you can't predict.

Not that I know anything about that.

Again, I'm asserting that sexuality is a huge amalgam of choices and pre-determined factors, and reactions and very primal reactions relating us to others - if the question is "is submission in one's sexuality feminist?" the answer would be : 59099.

The question isn't right.

It's what you do in the voting booth, in the workplace, and in the boardroom that makes these realities for people, how you wash dishes. How you fuck is like "how you feel" or "how your hair grows."

Yes!

 

[Netzach]

I don't have any grand answer to the problem. I guess I just feel like people can do whatever they like in the home, I may not always thing its right, but that's their choice. As for peoples private lives reflecting on society, well of course, but people shouldn't have the expectation of what they enjoy at home being the norm in society. Would people's private lives stop reflecting negatively on society if everyone grew up in homes where both parents were equal? In which both parents equally shared the burden of responsibility? Maybe its pessimistic of me to think this way, but I just don't think that we can't do any better than to hope we might get some good estimation of equal treatment in the public sphere while leaving people to make their own choices at home. What other option do we have?

Maybe my opinions on the issue will change if and when I have children, but for now, this is the only thing that really comes to mind. I wasn't coming to the problem with the mindset of "how would I feel if I had children?"

I'm not trying to equate submission with feminism, I just don't think they are mutually exclusive.

And yes, for me, submission is a sex thing not a political thing, which feminism clearly is.


ETA: I could have put all the much more clearly and succinctly but I just got back from class and my brain is fried, forgive me.

That's pragmatic and sane, and I agree that pretty much these private life choices are not the problem or not the *important* part of the problem at any rate. It's the public life stuff that becomes the next person's problem to a larger extent.

 

[rida]

*snip*
Why should women always have to justify their choices to a much higher extent than men?

Because women are more judgmental of other women than men are of other men.

ETA: will try to chime in with a more constructive post later

 

[callinectes]

. Now I have recognized the need in me to submit, and unfortunately I'm heterosexual, so I want to submit to a man.

All of the other issues aside, I think it is sad that that you feel it is unfortunate to be heterosexual. You are what you are, there is no need to feel apologetic about it.

 

[intothewoods]

All of the other issues aside, I think it is sad that that you feel it is unfortunate to be heterosexual. You are what you are, there is no need to feel apologetic about it.

I don't think she meant that literally!

 

[rinka]

Because women are more judgmental of other women than men are of other men.

ETA: will try to chime in with a more constructive post later

Genetically?

 

[rinka]

All of the other issues aside, I think it is sad that that you feel it is unfortunate to be heterosexual. You are what you are, there is no need to feel apologetic about it.

I'm trying to learn that irony doesn't translate well through computer screens.

Being straight is great!

 

[rida]

Genetically?

Good question.

Probably is a combination of genes, adaptation and learned behavior.

But ultimately, if you think about it, the most vehement accuser, critics and judger of a woman choice are other women, starting from the mother, and the siblings and the school friends and so on.

We are always competing with one other for the attention of whoever we deem is the one with power. Historically this has coincided with a male figure, but if the power is in a woman's hand, women will cater to the powerful female to gather her attention and protection, independently from sexual orientation, and at the same time waiting for the moment to stab her back and take her place.

Of course this is a generalization, but it is not an uncommon scenario.

As for my own background: I have a successful working mom, that claims she wanted to be a stay at home wife, that told me all the time while growing up that I should work and be independent from any men and that I should not marry, or at least marry someone rich and that now that I am married to a successful man, have a job and a family, spend her time criticizing the fact that I work, that I cater too much to my husband (if she only new the truth there ) and that ultimately I could not possibly be really happy. And I also had, growing up, a very strong personality grand-ma that would turn utterly idiotic when my father (her only son) would be around, to the point of agreeing with him on things that she had declared earlier (when he was not around) to be stupid. The two of them getting along reasonably well as far as my dad was not around, but with grandma always criticizing mom to me for not staying at her place next to my dad. Also went to a Catholic Sister's school where the head sister was a totally revolutionary type, to the point that she has left the convent and is now happily married.
Add in some more cultural/language/economical and other assorted background differences and you get the environment I grew up in.


ETA how do I feel about feminism and submission

There has never been an problem for me. I never felt feminist, if feminism meant that I had to adhere to a new stereotype of a men-like woman. I am all for equal opportunities, but that is a value that goes further than gender equality. But I am also all for acknowledging, accepting and cherishing diversity.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Of course you can.

But please tell me how.

Is it uncomplicated for you?

I thought about it for about a day and then said, fuck it. I will do what I want to do. So yes, it is uncomplicated for me.

I submit to one man and one man only. He is not my husband so I don't have to worry about my submission's effect on my kids. I have one daughter and one son. They see me working part-time, running the house, enjoying being a mom. They see the major decisions in the family made mutually by their father and I.

I also don't see my submissive relationship as anti-feminist. I still have the choice to walk away. I have choice to set limits.

I allow him to make the choices that I chose to allow him to make. I am not in a TPE and maybe that is why there is no clash, or problem with it for me. I don't submit to him because he is a man.

I know that was a rambling of thoughts, but I guess I can't really explain why it's uncomplicated. Life is too short. I do what I do because I want to do it. If I worry too much about why and if it conflicts with other values I would miss out on some awesome experiences.