Where does BDSM fall in the PC spectrum?

[Dommecile]

Thanks for the link Netzach

Do so love those boots!!

Agree.

Whether real people like us live in small towns as well as cities (and we do), the issue still remains that we want lawyers who win, don't we? Is this really based on whether we (or the general vanilla public) care if our lawyer wears latex out or stows a riding crop? Or is the concern that a judge and/or jury would render a lawyer with such a reputation ineffective and therefore his/her services worthless? If I'm hiring someone to win a case or negotiate a good outcome...that's the performance criteria I would examine.

I liked whoever commented regarding what must be under the judges' robes.

-D

 

[Dommecile]

Also

Gimme a break anyway, we can't really use Marquis as an example....only answer the questions wrt professional life and general acceptability.

In this era of the 'Desperate Housewife' (and coming from a suburban locale myself) I would guess there aren't too many women <at least> who WOULDN'T want to hire Marquis for whatever type of law he would decide to practice - latex and all. In fact, it would probably be a plus for him.

-D

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm reallllly looking forward to the return of Marquis to this thread.

I think it'll make for some splendid reading.



Now, then...you may continue....

 

[bridgeburner]

Not at all. But I will tell you that unless you know a lot more than you let on through your posts in this thread, you know very little about marketing legal services, nor about the market itself. Such specialization, especially for a new lawyer just starting out, is essentially unheard of. Why? Because there's no way to make a living with such a small niche market. And while I don't actively target that same audience, I do know a good deal about marketing a legal practice in general.

I'm sure you don't intend to, but you've contradicted yourself. There either is a market for attorneys willing to work with the sexually outre or there isn't. As you yourself pointed out sex workers, BDSM and fetish practitioners all need regular legal services like any other John Q. They have the added challenge of often being legally targeted for their lifestyle choices. If there is a market there is a way to tap that market or, more usually, several ways to do so. This isn't a lawyer v doctor v gardener v basketweaver issue. It's just marketing. You strike a balance between what you want, what you have to do to get it and what you have to do to maintain it. Since no specific marketing plan has been put forward your arguments tend to weigh in on the side of it being a hopeless and worthless proposition which is hardly the case. If some schmuck can sell a million dollars worth of pet rocks, certainly a savvy attorney can build a lucrative practice representing people who identify as sexual mavericks.

Only the laws of supply and demand. You think he's the only kinky lawyer in a major metropolitan area? The only one to decide to represent unusual, non-mainstream interests? Not by a long shot. But by the same token, those that are already in that market have earned market share, not had it given to them. Which is why such an extreme specialization for one starting out is career suicide, aside from wearing latex out and about on the town (which is what he does already as a law student).

Is it generally the habit of newly licensed attorneys to open their own practices right off the bat? It's been my experience that most seek employment with a firm that operates in the area they wish to work in. I'd venture to guess that any new attorney no matter what his area of interest would have an uphill battle trying to build his own practice right after passing the bar. Why assume that the Marquis would attempt such?

"Adult businessess in the San Fernando Valley" are much like adult businesses everywhere plus you add in the film industry. Despite the money THAT end rakes in, it's still basically IP law and will be handled by boutique IP law firms and IP departments at mega-firms, the way the majority of IP law is handled everywhere. The fact that the films may involve flogging, dog collars and/or blow jobs doesn't change things much. The rest of it is more or less zoning law. And the fact is that those lawyers aren't going to be out and about in the BDSM community as players, despite their representation of adult businesses.

When you "add in the film industry", which, if one is talking about adult business in LA, you can't do anything but, you're talking about thousands of individuals who need legal representation, most of whom live in a very insular community because they are ostracized by the public at large that makes so much money off them. LA also has a huge BDSM and Swinger population some of whom are even attorneys.

Except, Brainiac, it's not a joke to lawyers or people who (however idealistically and naively) think they're trying to help people as lawyers. And believe it or not, most lawyers do believe that to a large extent, especially when they're young and not jaded.

No, it wasn't a joke to you. You didn't get it or did and chose to take offense which wasn't intended. Fine. But that's on you. Despite your expert status you don't speak for all or even most attorneys. I haven't stated or implied that anyone is idealistic or naive for pursuing what he considers a worthwhile goal. Who tells the best lawyer jokes? Lawyers. One can hardly be an attorney however well-intentioned and not be aware of the need to combat or ignore the stereotype that lawyers are liars and theives. It's why there are jokes about it.

You represent them but you don't go out in latex publicly except in huge, anonymous metropoli.

Then the smart ticket would be not to try and set up in a small town. Your life is most often what you make it barring catastrophe. When it comes to the pursuit of a career no matter what that might be, you have to take into account where you'll be able to make a living at such.

Says you.

No, actually, said you. Attorneys get reputations for the kinds of clients they represent. You can hardly hide the fact that you represent sex workers even if you can dress your kinky clients in tweed.

Yes, you do, but you do it carefully and within in the conventions and norms of the profession, at least publicly.

And again I point out that it's doubful that the Marquis would think to appear in court in chaps and a codpiece.

As I've said above, where you think you'll end up at 25 may not be where you actually end up at 30 or 35.

Planning is good. Living in fear of the future isn't living at all.

-B

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Funny how the thread turned.... *grins*

BDSM ISN'T in the PC spectrum. We are well outside of it. From the right wing we're perverts and deviants. From the left wing we demean and abuse women (even if it's the woman's choice, her desire, her need...)

As for kinky legal eagles, yeah, showing up for court in your chaps and leather harness is probably a bad idea. So is showing up in a triple-oversize hockey shirt and jeans that hang half off your ass wearing lots of bling.... Thirty years ago if you were a male attorney and you showed up in court with your long hair in a pony tail you might have gotten cited for contempt also. Now I've seen, and tried cases against (I was a cop for 17 years), male attorneys with long hair. Things change in the legal system, just very slowly.

There are places where being "out" in your orientation can be a help in attracting clients, there are places where being "out" may hurt. There are many places where your orientation won't matter as long as you get a good reputation as hard working and effective. But as bb has pointed out, kinky people NEED representation. They need medical treatment. They need marriage counselling, spiritual guidance, dental treatment.

The Kink Aware Professionals list: http://www.bannon.com/kap/

Lord knows it needs to be bigger.

 

[babiesmiles]

Assuring your professional assistance to a wide spectrum of clients ( of most various kind ) and showing your inner orientations is not the same thing .

I can affirm I am able to assist all kind of people ( in my field which is not criminal law ) and I've done it before specializing in a more niche sector, but I think its better for "the client" first, if I appear in Court properly dressed with impeccable elegance of clothes and manners , a flawless background and a solid professional reputation.

I dont know if it happens in US of A as well but here I've seen too many times lawyers hit opposite bench ( no pun intented ) collegues under the belt , just to translate the discredit through them to their clients which are the ultimate target to win a controversial.

And upset the Court is never the best way to gain your result , which in my opinion has to be , without exceptions , to obtain the best result giving the best service to people who came to you asking for your advice and defence .

As I said a couple of pages ealier I don't need to show myself to "know" who I am , and I don't think that in my field , which is legal assistance, "kinky" ( I am using that term just for the sake of brevity ) people need a "kinky" lawyer .

On the contrary I can see that the more people are kinky orientated and need a lawyer for some delicate serious matter the more they look towards conservative professionals to achieve a good result .

Of course a good professional must be "empathetic" and never judgemental , but that has nothing to do with one's inner sexual or personal orientations its more a " how you are inside " matter , and I can sure you , if you are empathetic, clients "see" that , often more clearly that an hyphotethical leather outfit .

But hey that's just my opinion. b.

 

[Aeroil]

ah, yikes, Marquis, you sure can materilize the random serious subject, can't you.

Myself, I've not been honest about myself with pretty much anyone RL since I was thirteen. With my friends at that time, I was totally pretending to be someone else, parents too. More recently, I've started being slightly more honest, but it's tricky for me, I think I have trust issues. I think maybe a change of enviornment will help, but I have to wait for that to become open. We shall see.

 

[sdcowgirl]

i live in a small town(pop. about 1200..farm community)...my submission tho not totally hidden....the bdsm aspect...i rarly say anything about...small towns can be cruel and i dont wish my choices to effect my kids...they are very small minded here...and tend to judge harshly and quickly...and once judged..no amount of show to the contrary will change their minds..im more into the D/s power exchange aspect of it...i know of one person in my area that is a Dominant and a good friend of mine....i know of no submissives...or of any other Dominants in my area...there are no parties..clubs...or the like that i have heard of..im not ashamed of who i am....just careful who i express it to...my main and almost only outlet to be myself...is online....sad isnt it