Why is obesity so prevalent amongst BDSM practitioners?

[rbijon]

See I knew that was coming.

LOL.

It's a Jerry Springer thang. It "just happened." Sorry.

Fury

ops.....

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yeah well then let it happen where it is supposed to because just like my opinion of Jerry springer, it is all about attention and not remotely BDSM, and that is why other forums exist to let people exercise their frustration with reality instead of hijacking discussions.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am a few pounds overweight but have found that the people I have been involved with don't care. We are interested it what we have in common. I have found this to be true in all aspects of my life and interest. Not to say that you won't find people that have to have the perfect person for things to come together. This is fine with me if they are more concerned with my appearence than what we want to share let them keep looking. I will admit I have always found a woman with a few extra pounds so much more sexy. I guess you would call me particular because of this right?

WW

I think there is a lot in what you say. There seems to be 2 distinct groups, one being the one which is preoccupied with playing only with people who are physically attractive to them and often need to be dressed to fit the fantasy, and those who are more interested in the mindset of those they link up with and where appearance doesn't make it to the radar screen so to speak. There are a few who have a foot in each camp, but overall I find the ones who are not concerned with appearance who have a similar mindset to us and are more occupied with actually doing than fitting an image...lol, I often find they are also the ones willing to be more adventurous and fun.

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

Yeah well then let it happen where it is supposed to because just like my opinion of Jerry springer, it is all about attention and not remotely BDSM, and that is why other forums exist to let people exercise their frustration with reality instead of hijacking discussions.

I think I'm in love with you. That's not flirting, just appreciation. Because I don't usually mention it, but this is how I feel too. In the grand scheme of things I don't care, and I don't dislike people because they do it, but...well, Catalina, you summed it up perfectly.

 

[cati]

This topic always pops up sooner or later. At my first play/fetish party, I was very surprised to see several heavy women parading themselves naked and quite proudly from their seats to the various playstations, we aren't talking a few pounds overweight either. I think most BDSM groups have a wide variety of shapes and sizes in both male and female forms. I have met many women who have also had gastric bi-passes and breast augmentation to make themselves more attractive to potential Doms and/or play partners. Granted these surgeries are not limited to lifestylers, but you'd be surprised how many I have come across in recent years.

I agree with Catalina that it is more important to find a partner who is compatible with your kink and play preference rather than being eye candy both in and outside of BDSM circles.
No doubt there is some attraction to having a play partner who offers up a generous amount of flesh to play with and mark with one's flogger, cane, crop etc.

Perhaps larger women are more concerned with pleasing and seeing to their partner's needs rather than looking after themselves? Food for thought....

 

[Miss_Adagio]

(Just had a brief flick through this very long post, so apologise if anyone else made this point before)

In the past I have definately thought there was a definate leaning towards larger sized ppl...but after looking at some of the posts, maybe when first coming into the alternate scene people are not used to seeing sexually open/assertive larger people. Coz EVERYONE knows that big people can't be sexual...they should stay at home and be ashamed of themselves and be lonely (that was sarcasm...just in case anyone missed that)

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I belong to many clubs...in different parts of the world. I have also noticed that the numbers of over weight Dom/mes and submissives is the norm rather than the unusual.

My theory is that the BDSM community is more accepting and welcoming of all diversities in what society dictates is acceptable.

We in the BDSM community are generally more interested in the dominating skills or submissives realities than W/we are in girth.

I agree

 

[ammre]

I'm late to this discssion and to be honest i haven't read most of the posts before me so i don't know if this is new or what not but personally... I'm fat. i'm not jiggly fat either. I'm linebacker fat. Born at about 10 and a half lbs i was huge even as a baby. i was fat through grammar school, highschool, and college. I was picked on HORRIBLY for it. I even saw a nutritionist for half a year and while i lost some weight i also was depressed most of the day. I'm also broad shouldered and 5'10". I'm sure it's part in due to gluttony and laziness, but i think a good portion is to do with genetics.

Ok, so my point was that i can't really change the way i am. I've NEVER been allowed to just love my body. I've NEVER been allowed to feel normal. So when I was faced with the choice of enbracing my bdsm socially taboo life, i was ok in being the "outcast" becasue i already was. Where as the sorority girl i knew who was a switch and a very good one at that was horribly repressed and would cry when she couldn't explain a bruise she LIKED or when she smacked her boyfriend during sex and got off on it. She hid it becasue she couldn't bear to be anything other then socially acceptable.

I owe it to being fat that i have come to terms with my quirks.

 

[cati]

Excellent post Ammre ! Thanks....

 

[Exogenous]

I'm late to this discssion and to be honest i haven't read most of the posts before me so i don't know if this is new or what not but personally... I'm fat. i'm not jiggly fat either. I'm linebacker fat. Born at about 10 and a half lbs i was huge even as a baby. i was fat through grammar school, highschool, and college. I was picked on HORRIBLY for it. I even saw a nutritionist for half a year and while i lost some weight i also was depressed most of the day. I'm also broad shouldered and 5'10". I'm sure it's part in due to gluttony and laziness, but i think a good portion is to do with genetics.

Ok, so my point was that i can't really change the way i am. I've NEVER been allowed to just love my body. I've NEVER been allowed to feel normal. So when I was faced with the choice of enbracing my bdsm socially taboo life, i was ok in being the "outcast" becasue i already was. Where as the sorority girl i knew who was a switch and a very good one at that was horribly repressed and would cry when she couldn't explain a bruise she LIKED or when she smacked her boyfriend during sex and got off on it. She hid it becasue she couldn't bear to be anything other then socially acceptable.

I owe it to being fat that i have come to terms with my quirks.

Wonderful post, ammre. No matter how one looks, one needs to find peace in oneself. It took me a long time to get close, and unfortuantely, I'm still not quite there. I appreciate everything you said, you are very strong and encouraging.

Sometimes I find it frustrating that it appears that "window dressing" seems to be what so many are concerned with. When I look on various sites such as alt.com and collarme.com and even vanilla online services I read so many ads requesting repsonses from women who are "attractive" (how ambiguous is that?), "thin" and "athletic". Nothing wrong with that. I understand physical attraction is part of the drawing of interest. But, humans want what they want and certainly have criteria in what would make them happy, so be it.

I only wonder how many people are able to look at what some might think of as a "weed" and appreciate the beautiful flower that blooms from the supposed "weed." I wonder how many folks can lessen their "window dressing" expectations in order to enjoy the whole, big picture. The exclusion of larger women or men limits the possibilty of finding a wonderful partner/mate/sub/Dom.

I also wonder if women are more forgiving, so to speak, of a possible male's weight when considering his potential as a friend, lover, Dom, etc., then men are of women?

For me, it's not what's on the outside. It's what's in a man's heart and character, how he treats others (family, friends, or business associates), it's many things. Appearance is the least of the factors for me when looking for that special, certain man.

 

[Exogenous]

I think there is a lot in what you say. There seems to be 2 distinct groups, one being the one which is preoccupied with playing only with people who are physically attractive to them and often need to be dressed to fit the fantasy, and those who are more interested in the mindset of those they link up with and where appearance doesn't make it to the radar screen so to speak. There are a few who have a foot in each camp, but overall I find the ones who are not concerned with appearance who have a similar mindset to us and are more occupied with actually doing than fitting an image...lol, I often find they are also the ones willing to be more adventurous and fun.

Catalina

Quite so. There is more than meet's the "eye". Thank you, Catalina.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I will admit that I was very surprised the first time I experienced the dungeon here. I was the smallest person there by far, and I could lose 10-15 pounds. It was amazing to me to see mostly very large women walking very comfortably around the playspace in various stages of undress. For myself, I'm very self conscious of the extra pounds that I have, and it took me a bit to open up enough to feel comfortable undressing in front of others. And it's actually quite funny when a Barbie doll type comes in. Everyone stares a bit, makes comments, but ultimately, they go back to what they were doing with their own partner(s).

I think that Cat has a good point in that many of those within this culture are much more open to accepting people as they are. However, what I often encounter as a single 41yo is that age/weight/looks are what get you the attention. It's very difficult to find people on both sides who aren't so shallow that they would rather play with a physically attractive twit than a passably attractive/average person of emotional/mental substance. Oh, I know very well that there are people out there who do look beyond the physical to find what's inside, but so many people are fixated on instant gratification that they usually won't take the time to do that. Meeting people you connect with is hard enough without adding that shallow aspect to it.

 

[chantilly_lace]

i believe that T/those of U/Us that venture into this area of O/our lives we want to be accepted for who W/we are and that includes appearance, fetishes, kinks, needs, wants and desires

It is within the BDSM community that P/People should be welcome regardless of any of the above especially since one of the best results i ever have met in the groups i belong to, self esteem and confidence are areas that improve over time and with that, if A/any wish to choose to change the reality of the strength and encouragement from O/others is overwhelming and very key to our existence.

Discrimination or criticism in any form in any society is hard, but here W/we should and more than likely would be more forgiving

 

[CutieMouse]

i believe that T/those of U/Us that venture into this area of O/our lives we want to be accepted for who W/we are and that includes appearance, fetishes, kinks, needs, wants and desires

It is within the BDSM community that P/People should be welcome regardless of any of the above especially since one of the best results i ever have met in the groups i belong to, self esteem and confidence are areas that improve over time and with that, if A/any wish to choose to change the reality of the strength and encouragement from O/others is overwhelming and very key to our existence.

Discrimination or criticism in any form in any society is hard, but here W/we should and more than likely would be more forgiving

I agree one should be accepting, and all that; however, I do not understand when the "Your Kinky Isn't My Kink But That's Okay" was extended to issues regarding health. Being overweight impacts one's health. I don't see it as discriminatory, for one to want a partner to be as healthy as possible, and either choose accordingly, or inform potential partners weight /physical health will be dealt with.


(PS- chantilly_lace, you are of course welcome to continue posting with the I/i You/you, etc, but the BDSM forums at Lit don't really worry about such formalities. )

 

[chantilly_lace]

smiles . .i wasn't discussing health issues, more or less trying to incorporate all areas that may or may not affect those of us here. More like a comparison that you would not judge someone overtly if they had a foot fetish even if you yourself did not . the same should be done for all aspects of those here.

as to choice, smile s. we all make individual choices as to who we want in our lives, i really was just trying say we all have something that others may not approve of . but bc of that we should be willing to accept each person on their own merits and not be critical .. grins (btw thanks re the W/we thing)

 

[FurryFury]

I would never presume to judge another based on weight. I've been blessed so to speak with a certain physiology that makes people believe I am thin even when I know I'm not. I very much believe that a large part of this is due to genetics and what the parent's mostly the mother was or was not eating during the pregnancy and what one was fed in early childhood.

I also have seen drugs make HUGE differences in weight both ways. My mother got down to a size six from an average of being a size thirteen on prozac. It terrified me not just because of the weight loss which was dramatically fast but also because she was much more suicidal at that time. On older anti depressants she has blown up to well beyond her lifetime average size, though I'm no longer keeping track of the exact size she wears or drugs she uses. Doctors rarely seem to give a damn about those side effects so it seems to me.

When my mother was pregnant, she was 16, in a very dietary restrictive religion and trying to hide her pregnancy / marriage so she wouldn't be kicked out of high school. After I was born, money was tight. They were still doing the veggie diet with me until about age eight or so. After that, they lost their faith which opened the door to me eating meat, something I declined.

Now by contrast, my daughter was born to a woman who was 30 and though a vegetarian still, had a good balanced diet. In fact about three months before attempting to become pregnant I put myself on a strict and healthy diet. I excluded certain things I thought might be harmful from it.

When she was born, I deliberately did not feed her as a vegetarian though I made both types of protean available to her. Of course there are also her bio "fathers" gene to consider, a somewhat "big" type of body. She was born bigger than I expected. She has remained "healthier" than I, though not what I'd call overweight. I'd say she will have a harder time over all with her weight than I have. Then again I doubt she will ever suffer from anemia or have nails that show these sorts of problems.

I don't think it's fair to judge others on body weight until you have actually had the exact same situation factors as they have. I certainly wouldn't. That isn't a BDSM thing IMO, that's a just being human thing.

I'll restate what I already said before, I do not see a prevalence to obesity in BDSM when compared with society in general. Not that I'd have a problem with it if I did. I just don't see that to be the case with my local group.

*shrugs*

Fury

 

[neonflux]

ammre, thank you for your share - I love your story and admire your self-acceptance.

I think that Cat has a good point in that many of those within this culture are much more open to accepting people as they are. However, what I often encounter as a single 41yo is that age/weight/looks are what get you the attention. It's very difficult to find people on both sides who aren't so shallow that they would rather play with a physically attractive twit than a passably attractive/average person of emotional/mental substance.

BeachGurl, like you I agree with Cat that this culture is more accepting, perhaps because what is important is the energy one projects and the intensity of the power exchange. It is interesting to me that when I was heavier, I think that I received more approbation in the "vanilla" world than in either the poly or kink communities.

However, I do understand what you are saying about being 41 and noticing how the attractions go - I also get more attention now than I did when I was at my top weight. And in personal ads, I've learned to say I am a "younger looking" 47 than to give my age as 50, because I won't get responses if I state my real age. (If I decide to meet someone, I will tell them if we have any chemistry what the "real deal" is pretty immediately, of course.) And this is true whether I am looking for a man or a woman... That said, there are people who like a partner who is a little older just as much as there are people who like a partner with a little meat on her/his bones.

I agree one should be accepting, and all that; however, I do not understand when the "Your Kinky Isn't My Kink But That's Okay" was extended to issues regarding health. Being overweight impacts one's health. I don't see it as discriminatory, for one to want a partner to be as healthy as possible, and either choose accordingly, or inform potential partners weight /physical health will be dealt with.

CutieMouse, I definitely agree that health in one's partner is important and that weight can impact health, particularly if the person doesn't eat well or exercise. however, that can also be an equally valid concern for a partner who is thin due to being blessed with a "good" metabolism. I have known fat people who were very fit and thin people who were the opposite.

Case in point, I started gaining weight about 7 years ago, due to a thyroid condition that went undiagnosed until about 1 year ago (when the weight started coming off). During that time, however, I never stopped exercising. During that time, I was at a convention in Lake Tahoe - she is extremely thin, the same size she was when we were in our 20's. When we went out for a walk (hillier there than in San Francisco), it quickly became apparent that I was in much better shape than she - both aerobically and in terms of sheer muscle strength. There are some new studies (well done) that have found that people who are moderately overweight according to the current height and weight charts are actually longer-lived than those who are within the "ideal" range...

Neon

 

[Etoile]

Fury, I'm curious - what religion was your mother's family that they had a restrictive diet?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it is incredibly cool that some European countries such as Italy are now making a stance and banning the use of models who resemble underfed waifs and heralding the return of the much more rounded and shapely figure women were designed by nature to have.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I think it is incredibly cool that some European countries such as Italy are now making a stance and banning the use of models who resemble underfed waifs and heralding the return of the much more rounded and shapely figure women were designed by nature to have.

Catalina

Why does it need to be banned? That seems really messed up to me. People should want to see healthy bodies enough that the dollars move in that direction, it shouldn't be something to legislate.

"You cannot photograph that girl unless she gains five pounds!" is a sad commentary on what people bought as sexy in the first place and makes me question the female consumers most of all. Again, the same thing with the increasing demand for *youth* - 14 year olds in "age defying" makeup ads. It's well heeled 40 something women with normal bodies doing the buying here. And the "brainwashing" can be shook off quite well if we use our brains.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Why does it need to be banned? That seems really messed up to me. People should want to see healthy bodies enough that the dollars move in that direction, it shouldn't be something to legislate.

So true, but as we know, the fashion industry has been fucked for years and believed the super thin, flat chested and bony image was perfection and so promoted exclusively that image thus breeding a generation of anorexics and bulemics who felt they needed to look that way to be accepted.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

So true, but as we know, the fashion industry has been fucked for years and believed the super thin, flat chested and bony image was perfection and so promoted exclusively that image thus breeding a generation of anorexics and bulemics who felt they needed to look that way to be accepted.

Catalina

Anorexia and bulimia existed before that ideal, and have more to do with how many people have abusive and messed up homes and parenting. It's not an idea people get from ads, it's a complex illness and issue of control and lack of control.

What's creepy is the worship of the anorexic profile and what that says about our values.

 

[neonflux]

Anorexia and bulimia existed before that ideal, and have more to do with how many people have abusive and messed up homes and parenting. It's not an idea people get from ads, it's a complex illness and issue of control and lack of control.

What's creepy is the worship of the anorexic profile and what that says about our values.

Working with people in their teens, I think there's more of this now than there was 30 years ago - the stringent dieting that it takes most girls to become this thin can itself set up the chemical imbalances that support anorexic behavior. We're seeing an increase of both anorexia and bulimia among gay/bi boys now in San Francisco.

One of the things that is so scary about promoting this idea of beauty is that it's actually unhealthy for most people - I was doing a fair amount of music video (local) work 10 or so years ago, and a lot of the models that the bands would choose would fit that ideal on camera but need tons of body make-up because their bodies bruised so badly due to malnutrition - and for these young women, dieting this way was important to their paycheck.

I don't think that we can rely on the fashion industry to change things of their own accord - guilty pleasure - America's Top Model - Tyra Banks has pushed to include "normal" and "chubby" sized models on every season but they never make it into the top 6 because of the prejudices of other judges. And Gautier has been using older and fat models in his runway shows for years without any other top designers following suit.

Catalina, I am interested in what countries are discussing such a ban? (Would never fly in the U.S.)

Neon

 

[Etoile]

I've heard of the trend away from skinny models in Europe.

Also, I was Googling around, and found this interesting link:
http://www.the-iron-gate.com/living_large.php

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina, I am interested in what countries are discussing such a ban? (Would never fly in the U.S.)

Neon

My mind deserts me this evening but will try and check...(oh, just found this report and this report ). I know Italy was the most recent one I heard of a few weeks back and they made a public statement that no matter who the model was, if she(he) did not fit their criteria as far as body image went they would not be working on any catwalks in Italy. The UK also had a highly successful advertising campaign for Dove I think it was which featured all rounder figured (too very chubby even) models of varying ages, not just late teen/early 20's. It was a huge hit with everyone.

Catalina