Why is obesity so prevalent amongst BDSM practitioners?

[Etoile]

You know, this is so weird, I SWORE I had a response to this post and I have no idea where it went.

In any case, as far as I understand it, people with PWS are often obese because they have unusually large apettites. I did some quick research and it appears they often have low muscle mass, which would suggest a slow metabolism as well.

The human body just isn't physically capable of creating matter.

True, the body isn't capable of creating matter - nothing is, if I recall my 7th grade science. I was being silly in mentioning PWS, though. It's not an unusually large appetite as much as it is an inability to stop eating - a physical inability caused bu the lack of a signal to the brain that says "I'm full." People with PWS are not to blame for their obesity by any stretch of the imagination. Christina Corrigan died at age 12 when she was 680 pounds; her mother was accused of child neglect/abuse because Christina's PWS wasn't known until after her death. There was a 3-year-old with PWS who died at 180 pounds. PWS has nothing to do with "lack of self control," "letting oneself go," or anything else we're discussing in this thread - it's a disease. So yeah, I was just goofing around about something very serious...sorry about that. BTW, there was an episode of CSI that discussed PWS.

 

[Marquis]

True, the body isn't capable of creating matter - nothing is, if I recall my 7th grade science. I was being silly in mentioning PWS, though. It's not an unusually large appetite as much as it is an inability to stop eating - a physical inability caused bu the lack of a signal to the brain that says "I'm full." People with PWS are not to blame for their obesity by any stretch of the imagination. Christina Corrigan died at age 12 when she was 680 pounds; her mother was accused of child neglect/abuse because Christina's PWS wasn't known until after her death. There was a 3-year-old with PWS who died at 180 pounds. PWS has nothing to do with "lack of self control," "letting oneself go," or anything else we're discussing in this thread - it's a disease. So yeah, I was just goofing around about something very serious...sorry about that. BTW, there was an episode of CSI that discussed PWS.

Here's what I don't understand. I mean, obviously I don't have PWS, so I really have no idea what they go through, but when I'm on my best behavior, I often have to stop eating before I feel full (oftentimes I also have to force myself to eat when I'm not hungry). Even if you're always hungry, never full, wouldn't you realize at some point, intellectually, that you've had enough to eat?

Particularly in the case of the 3 year old child you're talking about, I doubt he was driving himself to McDonald's. Why didn't his parents just stop feeding him?

 

[Etoile]

Here's what I don't understand. I mean, obviously I don't have PWS, so I really have no idea what they go through, but when I'm on my best behavior, I often have to stop eating before I feel full (oftentimes I also have to force myself to eat when I'm not hungry). Even if you're always hungry, never full, wouldn't you realize at some point, intellectually, that you've had enough to eat?

Particularly in the case of the 3 year old child you're talking about, I doubt he was driving himself to McDonald's. Why didn't his parents just stop feeding him?

Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to imagine. But PWS does have a high mortality rate, so obviously something is wrong with people who have it. In that episode of CSI, they showed a refrigerator chained shut and a PWS patient strapped to a chair. I assume the families DO try to keep it from happening, and for whatever reason it's not easy or even possible. It's a strange illness and I think they don't have a cure right now.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't give a fuck about your thyroid or your genetics. Your body is not a magical machine that can create matter you do not first ingest.

Actually this is not entirely true, thyroid and hormonal imbalances are notorious for creating weight issues. For instance, my brother in law has had an over active throid for all his adult life and which resists treatment. He is a great looking guy to the point women notice him wherever he goes, but due to thyroid problems he was unable to qualify for the police force which he would have loved to do. He can eat all day, totally fat ladened foods, and he is still skin and bones to the extent you could lose him behind a decent sized post. An under active thyroid produces the opposite effect and can be just as difficult to manage in terms of weeight gain. Similarly, my own and my daughters issues throughout life have been caused by hormonal changes brought about by medication. She went from a skinny 6 year old to a round and chubby 6 yo in 2 1/2 weeks at which point doctors admitted they had neg,lected to mention that could be a side effect. Up until that point, and beyond, we had been taking her to doctors to try and increase her appetite as she ate so little. Despite her diet not increasing, her weight gain did and remains an issue to this day because they say the medication had a permanent effect on her metabolism which will likely never change.

Catalina

 

[Marquis]

Ha ha, I just love how people want to argue with the Newtonian physics.

You guys are determined.

 

[Chicklet]

A lot of the arguments you're presenting, Marquis, remind me of things people say about my depression. Maybe you've had similar experiences.

People who don't have depression themselves say things like "Well, when you start feeling down, just think about something else!" 'cause to them, it seems like the obvious choice. I happen to be a positive thinker most of the time, but when I'm in a depressed funk, every little thought just feeds that depression until it's far, far below what I can handle.

I also have social anxiety, and my ex boyfriend used to get so frustrated because he didn't understand. He'd want me to just, well, "get over it" and deal with my anxiety. He didn't understand that I couldn't physically do it.

Now, if I seek professional help for my depression, and take medication, does that mean I'm taking the easy way out of my mental disorder? Some people that eat have mental problems about it. There're anorexics, and there're people that binge, as well. Now, are we saying that you and I can take anti-depressants and mood altering medications without worrying that we've taken an easy way out, but people who go through drastic measures to lose their weight are just lazy?

Or what about the times in my life where I can't afford my medication? Am I just being lazy, like the people who are 'choosing' to allow themselves to gain?

I have to add that I *am* overweight. Not by much, really, but when you're five feet tall every pound counts. My problem is that I don't eat often. I'm never hungry. So when I do eat my body's like GIMMEGIMMEGIMME and makes it all fat. I *could* eat three times a day, eat better, and excersize more often (or for gods sake, please, please make me cancel my gym membership 'cause i'm totally just wasting my money if i don't go) but I simply don't think about it. But then, I'm honestly not unhappy with my weight.

I have not been five pounds heavier or five pounds lighter since high school. Since puberty, really. I've been this size and this shape and relatively comfortable with it for a long time. I don't know why I felt like I had to add this to the thread at all... but whatever, I felt like it so I did

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have to add that I *am* overweight. Not by much, really, but when you're five feet tall every pound counts. My problem is that I don't eat often. I'm never hungry. So when I do eat my body's like GIMMEGIMMEGIMME and makes it all fat. I *could* eat three times a day, eat better, and excersize more often (or for gods sake, please, please make me cancel my gym membership 'cause i'm totally just wasting my money if i don't go) but I simply don't think about it. But then, I'm honestly not unhappy with my weight.

I have not been five pounds heavier or five pounds lighter since high school. Since puberty, really. I've been this size and this shape and relatively comfortable with it for a long time. I don't know why I felt like I had to add this to the thread at all... but whatever, I felt like it so I did

LOL, you know what surprised me most about my own situation? When I was the perfect little stick though with curves, although I had plenty of men interested in me, they were of far lesser quality (in that their preference for me was based solely on my looks and couldn't see beyond that). Now I have through problems with my health over the last few years gained a few extra pounds I would have preferred to not have, I have attracted far more interesting and real people into my life, especially men. I was trying to tell my sister in law a few weeks back she would be surprised how many men would find her attractive. She thought I was just trying to make her feel better...lol, well not anymore as she has advertised as a Domme and sent her pic and been flooded with responses from men wishing to meet her. She has so far had one date and was stunned at how upset she made him when she told him she was not ready to just jump at him being her slave and expected them to spend more time getting to know each other before he could think of himself in those terms. Apparently he was quite upset and she is still stunned!!

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

Your weight is something you have control over. You burn more calories or you eat less calories or both, and you will lose weight.

Period.

I don't give a fuck about your thyroid or your genetics. Your body is not a magical machine that can create matter you do not first ingest.

An old football buddy of mine, now 48 years old, is roughly the same size and shape of the actor John Goodman.

After performing triple bypass surgery, my buddy's cardiologist told him the very same thing that Marquis wrote in this post. But he added: "Your weight is killing you. Lose it or you will die prematurely."

Of course, Chicklet is 100% correct that there are some *clinically diagnosed* disorders that make the concept of rational choice when it comes to weight control relatively moot for some people. But there are many people who do not suffer from these disorders and are obese because of decisions they make every day.

My buddy is not one to make excuses. (If he were, he would not be a close friend of mine.) He is honest about how he became fat. He loves food, and says so. Chooses bacon, eggs, and toast for breakfast rather than a healthy alternative. Would rather sit back with a few beers and some BBQ in front of a ball game than head out for a Sunday afternoon run or ride.

Now, for the first time in his adult life, he is altering his diet and exercise routine. Is it to make himself attractive for a partner? Hell, no. He's got a fabulous wife who has loved him, just as he is, for more than thirty years.

He is making these changes because he wants to live to see his grandchildren, and to keep his wife company in the years to come. And btw - neither he nor his wife is kinky.

Is his cardiologist a tool? Is he shallow? I think not.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[FurryFury]

Okay, I've seen the light now. If a doctor tells a patient who does not have a dosage or genetically induced weight problem, and this patients very life is in danger that he needs to lose weight, scaring him into doing so, then clearly anyone overweight is in danger of dying and being lazy sods. Thanks to those who kept trying to pound this into my head. I feel so much more enlightened now.

Not to self. There is no tolerance. People must be "healthy" or else. Okay, got it.

*nods*

Fury

PS More seriously, yes, most doctors are tools and shallow, at least in my experience. They also LOVE playing God and using scare tactics or maybe that's only my POV.

This particular doctor may have done your friend a good turn overall. Hopefully that is how your friend's story is happily resolved.

That is IMO a separate issue entirely to judging people in extremely negative ways based solely on body shape and usually without any knowledge of how to walk even a moment in their skin. That's not to say people who prefer a certain body shape small, medium or large is wrong either. I don't really care what someone prefers as long as they are tolerant about what someone else who differs from them prefers as well.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ah, fortunately I recently went for a heart check with a cardiologist and despite my health issues which caused the weight gain and prevented me from doing anything about it for a long time, the tests came out great. Apparently they found I have one of the fastest recovery rates after a stress (exercise) test they have ever seen, and said I also had an extremely strong heart. It was certainly good news considering my mother has chronic heart problems, but then my diet for the last 27 years has been mostly low or sugar free, low fat (never cooking in anything but water or juices from the meat I cook), and no salt.

I have to think the no salt has been a big contributing factor to my exercise recovery rate as it is a killer many do not think about. It has been frustrating since moving here though as even the most ordinary foods (including some flours) have salt added, so it has meant a lot of time reading and researching to buy those things which are salt free if processed or totally raw product....mind you, I have also discovered meats in the supermarket which they have added salt and sugar to...they really love adding those 2 things to anything and everything. Unfortunately, stress is what gives me major problems, even in small doses these days, so I am working on finding ways to reduce that...used to have many options at home but basically when I moved I lost or gave them all up...that has to change quickly. Once I begin exercising I can become obsessive...F has no idea as I have been unable to do it for most of the time we have been together but I imagine it won't be long before I get back into it full swing.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Okay, I've seen the light now. If a doctor tells a patient who does not have a dosage or genetically induced weight problem, and this patients very life is in danger that he needs to lose weight, scaring him into doing so, then clearly anyone overweight is in danger of dying and being lazy sods. Thanks to those who kept trying to pound this into my head. I feel so much more enlightened now.

Not to self. There is no tolerance. People must be "healthy" or else. Okay, got it.

*nods*

Fury

PS More seriously, yes, most doctors are tools and shallow, at least in my experience. They also LOVE playing God and using scare tactics or maybe that's only my POV.

This particular doctor may have done your friend a good turn overall. Hopefully that is how your friend's story is happily resolved.

That is IMO a separate issue entirely to judging people in extremely negative ways based solely on body shape and usually without any knowledge of how to walk even a moment in their skin. That's not to say people who prefer a certain body shape small, medium or large is wrong either. I don't really care what someone prefers as long as they are tolerant about what someone else who differs from them prefers as well.

So true, and what I think has been missing in the discussion (unless I missed it) of people perceived to be overweight due to over eating and regarding that as solely their own fault and easily prevented if they had really wanted to, is that in most circumstances it is a matter of emotional eating. IOW, get depressed, they can't help but turn to food...get really happy, once again the emotional reaction brings about a need to eat. This is a mental health issue and no less real than manic depression, schizophrenia, personality disorders etc., just not socially acceptable or understood by many. Very few with emotional eating disorders can beat it on their own without any outside support or at least acknowledgement they have a problem which goes beyond 'just stop stuffing your face' mode which I equate to the darlings who tell someone with depression they need to 'snap out of it' or 'they are attention seeking'...lol, and many of these people who criticise can't pry the cigarette out of their own mouth which not only affects their health, but those around them or in the street (including children) who do not get the priviledge of saying 'no, I don't want to smoke'.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

That is IMO a separate issue entirely to judging people in extremely negative ways based solely on body shape and usually without any knowledge of how to walk even a moment in their skin.

I agree. Aside from post 352, though, I have not noticed anyone judging overweight people "in extremely negative ways" in the recent pages of this thread. Have you?

In a thread with the topic of obesity, I find it exceedingly unfortunate that so many seem eager to point fingers at allegedly shallow people, rather than acknowledging the well-documented health risks of this condition.

Obesity is not a condition of which a person should be ashamed. But - as with smoking and heavy alcohol or illegal drug use - there are health risks associated with obesity. Denying this fact helps no one. Least of all those who are overweight.

 

[JMohegan]

So true, and what I think has been missing in the discussion (unless I missed it) of people perceived to be overweight due to over eating and regarding that as solely their own fault and easily prevented if they had really wanted to, is that in most circumstances it is a matter of emotional eating.

Yes, you missed it.

Chicklet brought up this point, and I concurred. There are some clinically diagnosed disorders that make the concept of rational choice when it comes to weight control relatively moot for some people.

 

[Marquis]

I remember an ex-girlfriend's father who used to frustrate me to no end. He immigrated from Jamaica as a young adult with no money to his name. Today he is a very succesful architect and contractor. He is also a die-hard black Republican.

I always thought it insensitive of him not to see the struggles of underprivilged people, and the need for social programs. His philosophy was simply that if he could do it, anyone should be able to do it.

Perhaps, having gone through the lifestyle metamorphasis necessary to lose 70 pounds, I am insensitive to the struggles of those with difficulties controlling their weight. I know there are a lot of factors. I know these things all too well.

But my ex-girlfriend's father was right, if you want to do it, if you really want to do it, you can do it.

That doesn't mean I think people with eating disorders, genetic disorders, problems that complicate living a heatlhy lifestyle of any kind, don't deserve help or sympathy.

But I'll tell you who I have more sympathy for. I have more sympathy for the people starving in Africa because they simply don't have access to enough food to feed themselves, let alone have to worry about over-indulging.

There is nothing they can do.

Nothing.

There are no obese people in the slums of Somalia, no matter what their condition.

If you can't see the difference between these situations, I think you're missing something.

 

[FurryFury]

As if the "health risks" haven't been drilled into the obese already in so many ways. There is hardly a dearth of information on the dangers or people to push this at the obese. All too often what happens when people don't wish to appear prejudiced on this subject though in truth they are, is to harp on that issue in an attempt perhaps to appear caring and educational instead of prejudiced. Of course being nagged rarely helps anyone change even if change were possible or desirable.

Fury

 

[JMohegan]

All too often what happens when people don't wish to appear prejudiced on this subject though in truth they are, is to harp on that issue in an attempt perhaps to appear caring and educational instead of prejudiced.

Feel free to call the cardiologist a shallow tool, and me prejudiced.

You can hurl all the accusations you want to. But all that hurling just sounds like denial to me, and it won't make things any easier for the people you are rushing to defend.

 

[JMohegan]

There are no obese people in the slums of Somalia, no matter what their condition.

If you can't see the difference between these situations, I think you're missing something.

Great post. And I agree.

 

[FurryFury]

Feel free to call the cardiologist a shallow tool, and me prejudiced.

You can hurl all the accusations you want to. But all that hurling just sounds like denial to me, and it won't make things any easier for the people you are rushing to defend.

I feel very free, thank you.

I didn't call that cardiologist a shallow tool because I don't know him at all. I only said I felt that most doctors I'd experienced were in fact that way.

I didn't call you prejudiced either, I'm sorry you feel that I did.

I don't believe I hurled any accusations.

Denial about many things by can be present by many people not just by me alone, IMO. I won't deny having some denial about some things, most of which have nothing to do with this thread. Some types of denial about some things can indeed be helpful and others hurtful, sometimes it can even be both IMO.

I think if people were accepted more for themselves and not a certain body image that would in fact help a great many.

As for starving people in Somalia, that is a terrible tragedy. It's not really germane to this thread IMO but yet another tangent.

It is true that many who have changed and conquered a difficulty often are shorter and less tolerant with others who have not in my experience. This often shocks me though it's only human when you think about it.

Fury

 

[SirFace]

I
There are no obese people in the slums of Somalia, no matter what their condition.

If you can't see the difference between these situations, I think you're missing something.

\


Thats total bullshit. They dont have means to over eat. Has no bearing on this discussion at all. So lets just lock everyone up who is overweight and dont feed them. Yea, that will work.

 

[A Desert Rose]

What we're seeing more and more of in my profession is 40-60 year olds in long term care. Many of these people are there because of a life of bad physical choices/habits/addictions, i.e. drug abuse, alcoholism and alcohol abuse, obesity, etc. And those bad habits/addictions are the catalyst for liver failure/disease, renal insufficiency, degenerative joint disease, chronic arthritis, cardio/pulmonary disorders and on and on it goes.

The entire face of long term care is changing. It's been a major wake-up call for me and my fellow nurses.

If you have any control over your weight, it's best for you to attack that problem early on rather than wait until you reach 45 and have serious health issues to face. It means major lifestyle changes that most people don't really want to tackle.

Call me shallow or predjudiced but I believe that good health and living a loooong life should be a priority (it sure is for me and I'm sure for several others who post here.)

I want to get all the kinky stuff I can into the life I have left. ;-)

 

[Etoile]

There seems to be heavy emphasis here on "if you don't eat, you won't get fat."

The problem with this is that you die of starvation.

Or is that not what you meant?

 

[CutieMouse]

There seems to be heavy emphasis here on "if you don't eat, you won't get fat."

The problem with this is that you die of starvation.

Or is that not what you meant?

Personally, I see the emphasis being:

"If you eat a variety of foods in moderation, treat 'unhealthy' foods as a treat, rather than a daily indulgence, and remain physically active, you are far less likely to get fat."

It's called logic.

I had a million reasons why it wasn't my fault I was overweight, when I was overweight. In reality- I was overweight because I didn't work to stay at a healthy weight. some of that was due to lifestyle changes; some was due to using food as a comfort tool, but the fact remains, I was overweight, because I ate more than my body needed in order to function, and I didn't exercise as often as I should have.

A man I fell in Love with, made it quite clear he was only attracted to razor thin women; at the time I was 5'8" tall, and weighed 170# (size 12). He found me mentally and emotionally attractive, and could imagine what I'd look like if I were thinner, but made it clear if we were to have a relationship, I would need to lose weight- because he wanted to both be attracted to his partner, and know she wasn't at risk for weight related issues.

I disagreed with his assessment of what a "healthy" (and attractive) weight would be for me, as I know my body better than he does, but agreed to work on my weight, as a condition of moving towards a relationship, and we found a weight for me, that we were both comfortable with, and decided to evaluate things once that goal was achieved.

I reached the goal last March; however, I went on birth control pills to deal with some hormonal imbalance issues, and gained 10# back- which I could not drop for the life of me during the 4 months I tried BC pills. After I went off of them, I went back to work on my weight, and slowly lost 5#, but by then things had fizzled romantically, and I lost the motivation to stick to my goal weight. The last few months have been rather shitty, and I've ignored my health, with regards to eating, so my weight is creeping up a bit again. uite simply, I'm eating a wee bit too much chocolate, too little salad, and haven't made the effort to force myself to walk every day. I don't like myself like this (12# feels like a huge difference to me, now that I remember what is't like to be a slim CutieMouse), so I'm slowly getting back to working on my weight.

Even though things didn't work out for us to be Lovers, and I initially felt he was being somewhat shallow to demand I lose a hefty amount of weight, I am thankful I did. My life is better because I made the effort to become healthier.

 

[SirFace]

Great, so now you all are saying those of us who like our women a little more rounded are enabling them and making them sick and killing them? Fine, have fun with your stick figures.

 

[LadyAria]

Great, so now you all are saying those of us who like our women a little more rounded are enabling them and making them sick and killing them? Fine, have fun with your stick figures.

Mmm, hot stick sex.

 

[Etoile]

Personally, I see the emphasis being:

"If you eat a variety of foods in moderation, treat 'unhealthy' foods as a treat, rather than a daily indulgence, and remain physically active, you are far less likely to get fat."

It's called logic.

Hmm, we saw these differently, then:

I don't give a fuck about your thyroid or your genetics. Your body is not a magical machine that can create matter you do not first ingest.

The human body just isn't physically capable of creating matter.

Ha ha, I just love how people want to argue with the Newtonian physics.

There are no obese people in the slums of Somalia, no matter what their condition.

I saw them saying "if you don't eat, you won't get fat," thus my comment about starvation (and death).

I agree with your interpretation, but that's not what I was hearing the emphasis on in this thread.

And yet, I agree 100% with this:

Aside from post 352, though, I have not noticed anyone judging overweight people "in extremely negative ways" in the recent pages of this thread.

(even if he did attribute my comments about PWS to Chicklet!)

I don't think anybody here is judging others, nor do I think they are insensitive, etc. The only person I have felt was shallow was post 352. I felt that poster was shallow because, really, he was judging someone's suitability as a dominant based on their physical appearance.

I really do love everybody, I'm just conversating.