Why is obesity so prevalent amongst BDSM practitioners?

[Miss Oatlash]

I think there's a lot of truth in it.

I used to live near the Bovine Sex Club in Toronto, which became my neighborhood pub...as a kinkyalpha kinda guy, you couldn't ask for a better local.

After a while, you get to know who the real scene particpants are from the tourists and the losers.

The regulars were mostly IRL sceners, and would wear regular clothes, speak politely, remember your name, invite you to events and functions and parties...a genuine community of kink.

The tourists came in droves on the weekends in their black SUV's from S&M (scarborough and mississauga) dressed in leather, rubber, talking loud, being rude and basically pretending they were kinky the way bored suburban people do when they're out of range of the local WalMart. Not really damaging to BDSM, but making it kinda gauche...the nouveau spankiche.

And the losers were mostly fat ugly damaged people being used, using others, giving BDSM a bad name.

"nouveau spankiche" I like that!

 

[Etoile]

Re: ok...here goes...

ok...my 2 cents

overweight vs. obese....one is a big mac instead of a salad....th other is the whole buffet instead of liposuction...

the problem is that most people have no idea what they are talking about...they only respond to their feelings and experiences...if a person finds overweight people unnattractive and has never been overweight, then "obese" is 20 pounds or so...

that may be the problem with most of this thread...we are talking obese here....not "chubby" not "fat" not "could lose 20, 30, or 40 pounds" but true obesity is a proven medical problem with drastic physical and psychological ramifications.

I, myself am overweight. about 20 pounds or so...that is because i tend to be lazy...i dont see the point in overt excersize. i dont like it...i come from a family of very OBESE people...i hope to never be one of them...not because they are unnattractive, but because they cant walk, run or fuck the way they want to.

Like I said a couple of pages ago, the difference between overweight and obese is a statistical one. Meaning numbers. Meaning BMI.

 

[Etoile]

I just realized something. We're talking about the BDSM community here, but there are other communities that seem to have a high percentage of overweight and obese participants.

I was at a sci/fi convention this weekend (yeah, Star Trek) and let me tell you, there were a lot of overweight people there. There were a lot of obese people there, and there were a lot of morbidly obese people there. I don't give a flying fuck, and some of these people are my friends and I count myself among the Sci Fi community so I guess that puts me in more than one "lots of fat people" community. (And yeah, if you're wondering, my BMI does put me in the "overweight" category, hence my participation in the weight loss thread in the cafe.)

As far as I'm concerned, weight doesn't matter. For others, though, the difference may be that BDSM is a sexualized community (that is, it has elements relating to sex at its heart) while Sci Fi is much less so. Maybe that's why people are more upset about fat BDSMers than fat Trekkies.

I don't think I've been very eloquent in this post, but hopefully my point has gotten across somewhat.

 

[shy slave]

I just realized something. We're talking about the BDSM community here, but there are other communities that seem to have a high percentage of overweight and obese participants.

I was at a sci/fi convention this weekend (yeah, Star Trek) and let me tell you, there were a lot of overweight people there. There were a lot of obese people there, and there were a lot of morbidly obese people there. I don't give a flying fuck, and some of these people are my friends and I count myself among the Sci Fi community so I guess that puts me in more than one "lots of fat people" community. (And yeah, if you're wondering, my BMI does put me in the "overweight" category, hence my participation in the weight loss thread in the cafe.)

As far as I'm concerned, weight doesn't matter. For others, though, the difference may be that BDSM is a sexualized community (that is, it has elements relating to sex at its heart) while Sci Fi is much less so. Maybe that's why people are more upset about fat BDSMers than fat Trekkies.

I don't think I've been very eloquent in this post, but hopefully my point has gotten across somewhat.

It's a very eloquent, and to the point, post as far as i concerned. Also it does bring up an interesting question.
Why does the idea of overweight/obese/morbidly obese BDSMers upset people?

If so do obese people give all BDSMers a bad name?

Is it jealousy from vanilla folk? ~ BDSMers are (presumably) getting a 'leg over' when they are not, yet , in their eyes they are thinner, prettier, normal so how dare life treat them like this??

Or do they wonder about the mechanics of BDSM and weight, for example the need to buy extra rope, or does it cut into the flesh and disappear etc etc.

Or is it that they wish they had the strength/belief/passion/courage of people in the BDSM community to stand up and be counted regarding their wish to live life as they want to regardless of body shape.

If the third part is true it Makes both trekkies and BDSMers comfortable about who they are and their interests in life.

Coming back to the question
Why does the idea of overweight/obese/morbidly obese BDSMers upset people?

I feel uncomfortable with the idea that fat, ugly damaged people give BDSM a bad name.
No-one can help being ugly ~ we are what we are.
I strongly believe EVERYONE is damaged to some extent, regardless of who they are and what they believe. If they were not, they would have no guilt, desire or complexities in life. Those who suffer a lack of guilt are more damaged than the rest of us.

Obesity~Well when you start to become overweight, you accept it as part of you, or your miserable until you lose it or accept it.

Personally I am a little overweight
(my excuse is I had babies, yes I know their teenagers now but it takes a while to lose the extra!!)
but I was alot more miserable before I discovered my interest in BDSM and alot less sexually satisfied.
I am comfortable with who I am and if people think I am ntoo fat, too loud, too weird, too rude, too assertive then its not an issue for me. Its an issue for them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On a slightly different note, i have always thought Etiole stands for what she believes in and have admired her, but to admit going to a Trekkie gathering THAT is real courage *sweeping bow to Etoile* (someone had to say it

 

[Lancecastor]

If the question now is Why do BDSM-ers get upset when fatty threads come along...

Let's remember that it's mostly the women here who get snippy about it;

That most of them are subs.

Which I think reinforces my original assertions vis a vis self esteem., bdsm, body image and so forth.

Now, though I've not said it so far...my personal preference is and has always been towards curvy brunettes who are not overly sure of themselves.

Why? Because I'm very sure of myself and am tall, strong and lighter in complexion.

Yin meets yang; yumminess ensues.

As far as the whole Trekkie thing is concerned....they're all freaks... unless I get to be The Kirk (possibly Khan) in a room full of busty beehive'd doe-eyed yeomen in miniskirts.

Then I'm in, phaser on stun.

 

[Etoile]

If the third part is true it Makes both trekkies and BDSMers comfortable about who they are and their interests in life.

Aha! Now this seems very true and likely. I really like this way of thinking.

On a slightly different note, i have always thought Etiole stands for what she believes in and have admired her, but to admit going to a Trekkie gathering THAT is real courage *sweeping bow to Etoile* (someone had to say it

Why thank you! Though, technically I was working. There's a hard of hearing woman and a deaf man there each year, and I was interpreting the whole weekend. But yeah, I went to a couple of Trekkie conventions when I was younger just as a fan! I'm still a fan, and I enjoy the convention thoroughly, but I wouldn't have paid for the hotel room myself. There are people who fly in from all over the country for this con, though!

 

[Etoile]

As far as the whole Trekkie thing is concerned....they're all freaks... unless I get to be The Kirk (possibly Khan) in a room full of busty beehive'd doe-eyed yeomen in miniskirts.

Then I'm in, phaser on stun.

To vanilla types, Trekkies are freaks, and kinksters are freaks. We're all freaks, and I'm doubly freaky.

 

[Lancecastor]

To vanilla types, Trekkies are freaks, and kinksters are freaks. We're all freaks, and I'm doubly freaky.

I put Trekkies in the Silly category....unless it's a Kirk thing, being Kirk is cool, he has the best boots and always gets the cute chik no matter what planet they're on.

 

[Etoile]

I put Trekkies in the Silly category....unless it's a Kirk thing, being Kirk is cool, he has the best boots and always gets the cute chik no matter what planet they're on.

You said freaks. Right up there. You did!

 

[FungiUg]

I just realized something. We're talking about the BDSM community here, but there are other communities that seem to have a high percentage of overweight and obese participants.

I was at a sci/fi convention this weekend (yeah, Star Trek) and let me tell you, there were a lot of overweight people there.

Oh god yes! I'm a member of the Auckland SF&Fantasy club... and I've been along to the Auckland BDSM group meetings. If I had to pick one that had larger people in it... I'd pick the SF&F group. Hands down.

The LARGEST people I have EVER seen was at the World SF convention in Melbourne about 4 years ago. Wow.

 

[Lancecastor]

You said freaks. Right up there. You did!

Hard to argue with that...

 

[Netzach]

Then I'm in, phaser on stun.

Clearly missing out on the fine aspects of the "bringers of pain and delight" episode.

.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Another very obese is Mensa.

Go to a few of their regional gatherings and you will see many morbidly obese (yet very intelligent) people. Contrast that to a college campus...walk through various buildings and see maybe one obese professor per department. And remember that the average person with a Ph.D. would be elegible for Mensa.

So two groups of intelligent people...one with "expected" education level to match their brains, one without. (90%+ of college professors and ~10% of Mensans hold a Ph.D.) One group has high obesity percentage, the other doesn't.

Again, why?

 

[Marquis]

I'm a Mensa member, and I've actually considered this issue before. I can't come up with any reasonable explanation for why Mensan's are so fat.

 

[Etoile]

I'm a Mensa member, and I've actually considered this issue before. I can't come up with any reasonable explanation for why Mensan's are so fat.

Okay, I wouldn't normally comment on a misplaced apostrophe in a forum like this, but you did just say you're a Mensan!

I've been a Mensan since I was a kid, but I haven't done anything with them for a number of years now. I used to attend meetings regularly (though the talk was usually boring, so I'd dance around and around the snack table in the back of the room) and my family and I went to a few RGs. I even had a couple of ads in the IG Bulletin pen pal section once.

I don't remember anybody being particularly fat, but as I said that was a long time ago.

 

[RavenSpirit2k4]

To vanilla types, Trekkies are freaks, and kinksters are freaks. We're all freaks, and I'm doubly freaky.

Don't forget D&D players. Not to mention pagans. We're freaks too. So I'm triply freaky.

 

[Lancecastor]

Maybe it's members of marginalized groups that are fat.

(bdsm, mensa, trekkies, SciFi goofs...all tiny oddball slices of society)

They join the group to gain artificial self esteem.

But then...someone puts out sandwiches and chips and ruins everything.

 

[Etoile]

Hey Lance, what's your BMI?
http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm

 

[FungiUg]

They join the group to gain artificial self esteem.

They do? Damn, and here I was thinking I joined these groups to meet like minded people, have fun, socialise, that sort of thing. But now I know it's all about artificially gaining self esteem... I'm shattered!

 

[The Mutt]

But is the self esteem that people get from fandom or femdom really artificial? A Trekkie who wears the uniform in public is the same as a mutt who wears his Mistress' collar in public. We flaunt our ideal and our lifestyle proudly. We announce who we are. We announce we are part of a community of worshipers. We announce our outsider status. It takes self esteem to do that.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Maybe it's members of marginalized groups that are fat.

(bdsm, mensa, trekkies, SciFi goofs...all tiny oddball slices of society)

They join the group to gain artificial self esteem.

But then...someone puts out sandwiches and chips and ruins everything.

As I keep reading that Americans are getting fatter, it would seem that this is one small way in which these marginalized groups are normative, at least in America.

Hmm. Do Americans have low self-esteem compared to those from other countries? Not tthat I've noticed.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Btw, qualified for mensa, never joined -- my mother was a member. Have friends who are trekkies but never became one of those either. Could this be why I'm only a size 8 now? It's the Groups! They're infecting people!

Do they Have trekkies and mensans in other countries? Trekkies and Mensans and Subs, oh My! we're off to see the Wizard, the Wonderful Wizard of O....

 

[Phoenix Stone]

What about the possibility that lots of plain, chubby subs are subs because demeaning themselves into the whole "yes Master" thing is a sure fire way to get a man?

Look at the popularity of "culturally natural" submissives from the Phillipines, Ukraine, etc as mail order brides in the USA...same rationale...marginalized women will do lots of things to get the security of a wage earning supporter....the uber daddy.

Uh haven't you noticed how hard some of us already-marrieds are having to work to get our hubbies to dom us? Dang. My husband wouldn't Let me demean myself into the whole Yes Master thing. He was too busy adoring me. But he's getting there.

And what an easy time the Dommes have of finding guys to suit? Maybe those women from the Ukraine, etc would have more luck if they came off as Dommes.

From what I've seen, their popularity as spouses, if such really exists -- as most people don't want a person paid to sleep with them, except upon occasion -- is more due to their availability as spouses in places where few options for females are available.

And that results naturally in looking at the great mass of ugly loserguys who are "masters"...would these guys ever get a date if they weren't bossing low self-esteemed plain looking women around?

And this part doesn't even make sense. SOMEBODY has to be Wanting to do this whole dom/sub thing. If the loser guys would take any woman and are only domming to get dates.... And If the loser women are only doing it to appeal to the guys.... Maybe they should Both cut it out and just date like the Loser Vanillas they really are!

Perhaps BDSM is...among other things...a convenient gathering point for fat, ugly marginalized people?

Oh, I get it now! It's the Convenience of the Location! All that dressing up, the toys, the pain... when they coulda just met at the Kiwanis Club!

Lance, Lance, you disappoint me. And a disappointed sub... uh switch... uh fa... uh normal-sized confused person, is a Mean normal-sized bdsmly-confused person!

Just defendin' my peeps, dude. Whoever the heck they are.

 

[Lancecastor]

They're just suggested ways to answering the question under discussion...stop taking things so personally, kids.

I think there's inherent insecurity at play in any joining of a group....not by everyone...but surely you've run into people in groups that appear to be there just so they can belong.

In university, for example, lots of people join fraternities simply to gain identity larger than their own...wearing the jacket lables and says who you are.

I think there's an element of totemism that does that for everyone...consumer brands do the same thing.

Teens are huge targets for brand identification target marketing because they think they're buying the qualities communicated in the ads when they buy the shoe or pants.

Teens are insecure by nature.

I think adults do the same thing in lots of different ways.

The car you drive for example....when I bought my BMW I bought it because I'm an experienced race driver and automobile journalist who has driven everything and loves to drive, so I bought it because I like driving it.

I almost didn't buy it for the lables that would be attached to me....the "there goes another arrogant asshole in his black bmw" shit. Fuck 'em.

I've walked away from buying a Corvette on two separate occasions for the same reason...love driving the car, hate the image people slap on you automatically if you have one.

I think people spend a lot of time in North America doing things to fit a perceived image, sublimating their self in the process.

So, I'll bet there are lots of people into Goth, BDSM, Wicca, Kiwanis, Rotary...simply because it buys them a mask to cover what they are uncertain about on their own.

Many of you have said BDSM is open to all regardless of body appearance...perhaps that's why it attracts odd looking people.

Not that there's anything wrong with any of it...it's just an attempt to discuss the topic.

 

[A Desert Rose]

You said Rotary... there's something wrong with including them in that list.

Or maybe not... I was a 2 time president of my club and a governor's rep and just look at what a Rotarian example I am. ;-)