WT: Mental Health Issues and BDSM - Can They Co-exist Happily?

[shy slave]

Yes, though different to what you speak of.....I have always found that even though I am a masochist to the extreme, to be punished in a physically painful way it was different and I felt the pain in a different way and hated it. I now find I am beginning to spiral downwards when physically punished and psychologically associate extreme pain with punishment even when it is play. I am not liking the effects it is having on me or us but I seem unable to stop it, especially when I am already in a depressive state and yet that used to be when pain helped most....now it more often than not in those depressed moments just makes me feel I have failed and disappointed him.

Catalina

Catalina I am so sorry to hear that pain no longer helps you the way it used to.

I recall in the 'Love is..' thread how you spoke of it, and in other posts you have made about pain, I have been curious and slightly jealous enough to push my own limits in an attempt to experience some of the things you have written about.

I am sure you have talked to Franscico about the changes and having read some of his posts I am equally sure he will be supportive in helping you feel positive about it again.

It could be that it is the depression that makes you feel you have disappointed him which is seperate from the pain that used to bring relief to you.

I don't have any ideas of a solution but I know if it is the depression and not the pain that triggers these feelings that is something that can be overcome with patience, time and hard mental work with maybe some medication to help you over the most difficult part

I hope you are soon back at a point where the pain is something that you can enjoy and take relief from

 

[babiesmiles]

Babiesmile what a brave post.

Thank you for sharing it.
Many of us dislike being late and feel out of control but you express how it makes you feel so clearly.

Hearing how another person tried to help you overcome your fears was enlightening and useful.

You have a great deal of courage to have allowed him to support you and help you take those first steps.

I admire you for taking them and for sharing ~ thank you xx

You are very welcome

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina I am so sorry to hear that pain no longer helps you the way it used to.

I recall in the 'Love is..' thread how you spoke of it, and in other posts you have made about pain, I have been curious and slightly jealous enough to push my own limits in an attempt to experience some of the things you have written about.

I am sure you have talked to Franscico about the changes and having read some of his posts I am equally sure he will be supportive in helping you feel positive about it again.

It could be that it is the depression that makes you feel you have disappointed him which is seperate from the pain that used to bring relief to you.

I don't have any ideas of a solution but I know if it is the depression and not the pain that triggers these feelings that is something that can be overcome with patience, time and hard mental work with maybe some medication to help you over the most difficult part

I hope you are soon back at a point where the pain is something that you can enjoy and take relief from

Thanks....I have no doubt it will return to normal at some point as I still crave pain. If I know ahead of time we are going to have some painplay it seems okay....it is only when it happens suddenly and without warning I immediately begin to go down and begin racing through thoughts of what I may have done to bring about punishment. LOL, left overs of lifelong insecurities and a quest for perfectionism no doubt (and a lot of depression as you say) and a never ending disbelief I could interest, let alone be loved by, such a wonderful man. Just one of life's little quirks perhaps to keep it interesting....ugh, I could do with a little less interesting if that is it!!

Catalina

 

[DaddyJustin]

Worried about Flashbacks

Hey All,
I havent done any BDSM play with others because as a kid I suffered a lot of physical abuse and torture at school. I am mostly afraid that I will start having flashbacks while in a scene and not be able to control them and I might get hurt or someone else might. The last thing I want is this to happen, but I would like to explore things. Any idea on how to do this??

DaddyJustin

 

[Marquis]

Nothing from your past is unsurmountable.

Go slow.

 

[DaddyJustin]

How do I go slow...How do I begin to let people touch me. I have been through counseling and I am fine with everything except touch..specifically when it comes to be in sexual stituations...any ideas.

Daddy J

 

[Marquis]

Sorry man, you're way outta my league.

Something tells me you're going to have to figure this out for yourself, in this life or the next. The best of luck to you.

 

[snowy ciara]

How do I go slow...How do I begin to let people touch me. I have been through counseling and I am fine with everything except touch..specifically when it comes to be in sexual stituations...any ideas.

Daddy J

Good question.

I've found that while counseling helps some on the inside, when things start physically happening on the outside, I still have issues. Minor (because I usually stop before it goes any further) panic attacks and the urge to hurl are quite common. My shrink tells me that this may at this point be a conditioned response and the only way to get around it is to find a gentle friend or lover who is willing to risk an occasional Roman shower to be with me. I know, this doesn't help much, since I've found this to be tough to work around! I have no idea how to get around that.

 

[TaintedB]

Does anyone else have this difficult relationship with pain, or am I thinking about things too much?

I haven't personally experienced this but I've known sub women who had exactly that sort of relationship to bdsm and for the same reasons. I think you and your husband are very smart to this this slow. All the people I knew like this, however, were, unlike you Jen, untreated and utterly unwilling to get treatment at the time I knew them. If I had had any sway with them, I would have advised them to stay clear of the bdsm, no matter how attractive it was to them, until they got some sort of relief or resolution with the self-harming issues precisely because of the way these two things complicate each other and clearly, confused them emotionally. But these were wild, willful, and self-destructive submissives, in complete denial that their self-harm was a problem, and they went careening all over the net, not only hurting themselves but also trying as best they could to destroy the lives of others who had attempted to offer them a helping hand but made the mistake of telling them the unpleasant truth. Boy, were those some ugly, ugly times.

 

[curiousjen]

Yes, though different to what you speak of.....I have always found that even though I am a masochist to the extreme, to be punished in a physically painful way it was different and I felt the pain in a different way and hated it. I now find I am beginning to spiral downwards when physically punished and psychologically associate extreme pain with punishment even when it is play. I am not liking the effects it is having on me or us but I seem unable to stop it, especially when I am already in a depressive state and yet that used to be when pain helped most....now it more often than not in those depressed moments just makes me feel I have failed and disappointed him.

Catalina

Sorry for not responding until now, ages after you wrote this catalina but I only just noticed your post.

Pain, in my experience is a hard thing to control. Specifically, its hard to control your reaction to it. Mix that in with depression etc and it can create very tricky situations indeed. For example, with me, pain can be a huge release, and in a lot of ways has been my salvation. There have been times that, if pain didn't exist, I really don't think I would either. However, sometimes i have cut and felt nothing, sometimes pain leaves me numb, or even worse, has done similar to what you're experiencing and triggered a bad feeling. I've never had quite the same experience as you, but sometimes, rather than giving me a release, pain has only served to increase my feelings of anger and self loathing leaving me in an intensly vulnerable and dangerous situation.

So i know what its like to seek release in pain... which for me was always a last resort, and come away unsatisfied or traumatised.

I don't have any answers I'm afraid, my thoughts are with you though, and I hope with time you will travel to the places you once did.

Jx

 

[curiousjen]

I haven't personally experienced this but I've known sub women who had exactly that sort of relationship to bdsm and for the same reasons. I think you and your husband are very smart to this this slow. All the people I knew like this, however, were, unlike you Jen, untreated and utterly unwilling to get treatment at the time I knew them. If I had had any sway with them, I would have advised them to stay clear of the bdsm, no matter how attractive it was to them, until they got some sort of relief or resolution with the self-harming issues precisely because of the way these two things complicate each other and clearly, confused them emotionally. But these were wild, willful, and self-destructive submissives, in complete denial that their self-harm was a problem, and they went careening all over the net, not only hurting themselves but also trying as best they could to destroy the lives of others who had attempted to offer them a helping hand but made the mistake of telling them the unpleasant truth. Boy, were those some ugly, ugly times.

They sound it Sometimes it is hard to help people who are on a self destrucive path, as much as you want to. I am very open to help now, but there was a time when I would have totally denied that my fuckupness was problamatic at all, in fact, I thought it made me interesting.

*sigh*

Having said that, its only because certain people (mentioning no names coughhusbandcough) pulled the tough love card on me that i sat up and listened. Sometimes the truth is fucking hard to hear, and it hurts, but
its better than the alternative.

I am always grateful for those who were genuinly brave enough to tell me I needed help, and over time have distanced myself from those who told me what i was doing and the way I was behaving was cool or interesting. Being ill certainly taught me the value of a healthy friendship, and the downfalls of a bad one.

That was quite a tangent, wasn't it?

 

[YinandYang]

How do I go slow...How do I begin to let people touch me. I have been through counseling and I am fine with everything except touch..specifically when it comes to be in sexual stituations...any ideas.

Daddy J

I think that the very fact that you have an interest, even if it is solely in your mind at the moment, means you have made a huge step in the right direction. Good Luck

 

[LilyMelb]

Mental Health

This subject has long been of interest to me.

I'm a sub. I've had a history of cutting myself in extremely stressful situations - coincidently, a vanilla relationship where he was mentally ill and became very emotionally abusive was what started it off. I've also had to deal with depression in the last 18 months or so - again, stemming from the aforementioned vanilla relaitonship going from bad to worse and a very hellish time ending it, which thankfully is done now, so I'm working on getting myself well again.

However, due to my own experiences, I've often wondered whether mental illness is particularly prevalent in the BDSM community. At the same time, I'm wary of drawing any link, because too often the vanilla world write-off BDSM desires as the product of deviance or abuse or whatever.

Now, I started cutting myself well before I ever began admitting to my submissive needs. I tried to deny every part of my submissive nature, believing I should be "stronger" than I felt I was inside... so to teach myself to be "stronger" I turned to cutting myself.

I think part of my mental health issues was my inability to see myself as strong, because my nature is inherently submissive. If I had been able to embrace myself as I was much earlier, then I think I would have coped better. I guess what I'm saying is that people are more vulnerable to mental illness such as depression or self-hatred based things like cutting, if they are unable to accept themselves as they truly are - and in our society being submissive is not in the vanilla world seen as strong.

This - and this alone - I think is why it is possible there is a link between BDSM and mental illness. Not that being kinky is a sign of mental illness, but feeling unable to embrace that side of our nature leads to it. If that makes sense, lol.

This isn't the entireity of it, but I do think it's a part of it.

Hmmm, so much more to think about on this subject, but I've had far too many sparkling wines tonight and babbled on far too much already to add more here and now.

Cheers, Lily

 

[marieR19]

Hmmm. I really didn't know mental illness was this common in BDSM lifestyles. I am a complete beginner, mainly just reading and realizing what I want as a sub, I haven't done anything yet but I want to. But what has come up a lot in my research/reading is that people with low self-esteem should not be a sub. I have had serious self-esteem issues for years, I have a history of eating disorders, severe depression, social anxiety and panic attacks, and suicide attempts. I actually just had a suicidal bought two weekends ago, my mother almost commited me. I'm doing better now, but it's always a struggle. But for years now I have known that I am a natural submissive and that I want to enter into that kind of relationship. My Mistress will need to understand my mental issues and take it into consideration, but I have gone over pros/cons many times in my mind and I know that my life cannot be complete without a BDSM relationship, or at least trying it.

Marie

 

[Pure]

it's worth mentioning that 'depression' is widespread, and the drugs like Prozac, Wellbutrin etc. are flying off the shelves by the ton. there's absolutely no evidence i've seen here that depression is any more common in 'bdsm' persons than others. futher there's been no evidence here that there are any special problems of bdsm relationships *compared to others*, regarding such 'illnesses.'
IOW things like depression can alienate your partner in any relationship.

 

[catalina_francisco]

it's worth mentioning that 'depression' is widespread, and the drugs like Prozac, Wellbutrin etc. are flying off the shelves by the ton. there's absolutely no evidence i've seen here that depression is any more common in 'bdsm' persons than others. futher there's been no evidence here that there are any special problems of bdsm relationships *compared to others*, regarding such 'illnesses.'
IOW things like depression can alienate your partner in any relationship.

LOL, I don't think any of us thought we were special (though we know we are ) or it was specific to BDSM practitioners, but there are issues which arise from integrating these things into your life if you do happen to have them AND participate in a BDSM type relationship. Yes, it effects those in vanilla or other relationships too, but IMO the issues that need to be dealt with as a result of some of these illnesses when D/s or BDSM orientated differ, and are often cause for an extra list of concerns on top of the usual. Handled badly I think it can escalate the problem dramatically for one or all parties involved.

Speaking of the drugs available though, I have been meaning to direct the discussion into areas of people's perceptions of how taking those drugs (prescribed or otherwise) contribute to the relationship, good or bad. What are some of the unwanted side effects anyone has experienced?...and how do you then deal with or compensate for them if they are negative effects?

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

But what has come up a lot in my research/reading is that people with low self-esteem should not be a sub. I have had serious self-esteem issues for years, I have a history of eating disorders, severe depression, social anxiety and panic attacks, and suicide attempts. I actually just had a suicidal bought two weekends ago, my mother almost commited me. I'm doing better now, but it's always a struggle. But for years now I have known that I am a natural submissive and that I want to enter into that kind of relationship. My Mistress will need to understand my mental issues and take it into consideration, but I have gone over pros/cons many times in my mind and I know that my life cannot be complete without a BDSM relationship, or at least trying it.

Interesting that you've come back from research with the impression that those with low self esteem should not be subs. Like you, I have gone through severe depression, and I have barely-contained anxiety disorder. I have been in a mental hospital (yuck) and I am currently on multiple psychoactive meds. My self esteem is absolutely terrible. I agree with you that it is extremely important that one's dominant partner understand the sub's mental fragility if there is any. I actually struggled with this a lot until I was finally able to put it into words - I begged "please don't make me hate myself" because that was SO hard for me. This means I can only take so much humiliation before I am "broken" - and that has happened before. I guess this is when quality aftercare is most important to me.

 

[snowy ciara]

Hmmm. I really didn't know mental illness was this common in BDSM lifestyles. I am a complete beginner, mainly just reading and realizing what I want as a sub, I haven't done anything yet but I want to. But what has come up a lot in my research/reading is that people with low self-esteem should not be a sub.

Please excuse the snippage, but this is the part I wanted to mention. A Dom I know loves his esteem impaired subbie dearly, and wants to help her be a stronger and healthier woman. While a subbie with esteem issues can be a hard row to hoe, it doesn't follow that this sort of relationship can be bad for them and should be verboten.

 

[marieR19]

Speaking of the drugs available though, I have been meaning to direct the discussion into areas of people's perceptions of how taking those drugs (prescribed or otherwise) contribute to the relationship, good or bad. What are some of the unwanted side effects anyone has experienced?...and how do you then deal with or compensate for them if they are negative effects?
Catalina

*cringes* ACK!! The only side effect I have ever had from a medication just had to be sexual (my damn luck). With my current girlfriend I have realized that Depakote makes it a lot harder, almost impossible, for me to orgasm. I have no idea why, but it's one of the listed possible side effects, and of course it had to be the one I'd get.
And thank you to the people who responded to my post. It feels good to know there are others here with similar experiances.

Marie

 

[catalina_francisco]

Perhaps an interesting bump?

 

[SpectreT]

Okay, I'll bite.

Self-diagnosed Manic-Depressive. Don't recall the DSM numbers and exact description, but I did chart it once for shits and giggles when I had access to a copy.

Manic phase is tricky. It does strange things to me. I can be a rabid shopaholic, living for the thrill of acquisition, work patiently on an exacting project (painting and assembling scale models, photography, writing, things like that). Lately, I've been a cleaning machine. I'll disassemble, dust, polish, scrub, oil and reassemble small machines, clean my bathroom to showroom-like clean, that sort of thing.

The depressive phase is pretty stereotypical; curl up in a dark room and not come out except to feed myself - when I remember to. I'm just done. With everything. Kind of a "Stop the fucking ride, I want off." feeling. I've had enough, and feel that life isn't going to share anything with me anymore, and I sure as hell don't have enough drive left to take my share of the pot.

I guess you could say it's affected my BDSM - in that I haven't actively been looking for a relationship for years. No relationship, no BDSM - pretty simple cause-effect thing going on.

It's disruptive on the job front, too. When I'm up, slap the big red "S" on my chest; I'll tackle anything and get it done; leave me on my own, and I'll make organizational charts, spreadsheets, pie charts, comp sheets, you name it, to show the boss just where I am and what I'm doing. Which is just annoying to the aforementioned boss. When I'm down, I'll wait for work to come to me, putter uselessly, and generally accomplish nothing, kind of like when I'm making charts.

Money has been a prime consideration in my not seeking professional help for this; followed closely by how it seems they just reach for the happy pills. Which generally make Mr. Happy not as happy as he used to be. Being balanced, with my usual raging hornies (which I have even in my blackest moments) and no payoff for those hornies, would drive me straight around the bend, no question.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Okay, I'll bite.

Self-diagnosed Manic-Depressive. Don't recall the DSM numbers and exact description, but I did chart it once for shits and giggles when I had access to a copy.

Manic phase is tricky. It does strange things to me. I can be a rabid shopaholic, living for the thrill of acquisition, work patiently on an exacting project (painting and assembling scale models, photography, writing, things like that). Lately, I've been a cleaning machine. I'll disassemble, dust, polish, scrub, oil and reassemble small machines, clean my bathroom to showroom-like clean, that sort of thing.

The depressive phase is pretty stereotypical; curl up in a dark room and not come out except to feed myself - when I remember to. I'm just done. With everything. Kind of a "Stop the fucking ride, I want off." feeling. I've had enough, and feel that life isn't going to share anything with me anymore, and I sure as hell don't have enough drive left to take my share of the pot.

I guess you could say it's affected my BDSM - in that I haven't actively been looking for a relationship for years. No relationship, no BDSM - pretty simple cause-effect thing going on.

It's disruptive on the job front, too. When I'm up, slap the big red "S" on my chest; I'll tackle anything and get it done; leave me on my own, and I'll make organizational charts, spreadsheets, pie charts, comp sheets, you name it, to show the boss just where I am and what I'm doing. Which is just annoying to the aforementioned boss. When I'm down, I'll wait for work to come to me, putter uselessly, and generally accomplish nothing, kind of like when I'm making charts.

Money has been a prime consideration in my not seeking professional help for this; followed closely by how it seems they just reach for the happy pills. Which generally make Mr. Happy not as happy as he used to be. Being balanced, with my usual raging hornies (which I have even in my blackest moments) and no payoff for those hornies, would drive me straight around the bend, no question.

Oh, I can so identify...perhaps that is why I have always liked most of what you have to say. It is the pits, but I must say I am like you in not wanting to succumb to the usual solution of pills and go home, don't woory about the nasty side effects. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps this society at this point in time is too prone to the easy quick fix without really fixing anything, or making it worse just in another way. I have learned to recognise the onset of each phase, have developed some coping mechanisms, recognising triggers, just is a matter of riding the wave and being able to believe there will be a light at the end of the tunnel, and maintaining some level of caring about trying to handle it which does not always happen. The alternative of chemically induced beigeness does nt appeal, nor is it good for my creative side which dominates much of who I am.

Catalina

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Great bump Catalina and thank you I am going to read this Thread in entirety

Thank you also for sharing Spectre_T its brave and generous for you to have done so in my estimation

 

[O'Mac]

Mental Health Issues? Hmmmmm, well I can honestly say I've suffered from a few bouts of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in my day, and figured a bit of seasonal depression as well. All in all, I think my mental health has been as stable (if not moreso) as my physical health, and I'm definitely not a hypocondriac who figures a few bad days means my mind is slipping into some sort of deep well of insanity and depression.

But I digress. BDSM has certainly strengthened some aspects of me mentally I will readily admit. Again, I'm the sort of person who is easy-going and calm at work or with friends, but almost a completely different person in scene. I'd say my lifestyle has helped minor issues of shyness and apathy outside the relationship, so yes, there has been a benefit in my mind.

As mentioned in previous threads however, I would strongly recommend AGAINST the concept of using BDSM as a method of do-it-yourself therapy.
No word of a lie, but I've read a post on the Livejournal BDSM Lovers Community from a person asking us what she thinks about the idea of tying her suicidal partner up to a chair/bed and barraging him with questions and comments about a terrible childhood trauma of his as a sort of release mechanism. Obviously most of us thought this was certainly a BAD idea, but knowing how some people are, she's probably gone ahead and did it anyways by now.

So yeah, BDSM can be beneficial for some, and can be dangerously misused by others.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I am in the business of living my life, not analyzing it. I am not interested in analyzing slave or any of the submissives I deal with.

Eb