WT: Mental Health Issues and BDSM - Can They Co-exist Happily?

[ABX]

I am considered to be well adjusted.

Which means I have never been to see a psychiatrist, and live in blissful ignorance of a whole host of minor conditions. Fortunately for me though, they are minor conditions.

But my girlfriend... is kept on medication. Just one pill a day, nothing crippling. She has bipolar disorder, what used to be called manic/depressive. On the medication, it's really not that noticeable unless you know her well. Off the medication, it's really quite severe. Suicidal thoughts when depressive, near-psychotic episodes when manic. So thank god for medication - I make sure she keeps taking it, and everything's ok.

But as an additional complication, many years ago she was prescribed the mood stabiliser Zoloft for depression. If any of you know your medications, Zoloft now carries a warning that it is NOT to be used for depression on teenagers. Largely due to the side-effects it had on a small minority of patients... including my girlfriend. Even now, in times of high-stress or sleep loss, she can start developing physical tics, laughing nervously, and occasionally a full blown seizure. But an odd one, because she stays conscious throughout.

But they're rare - seldom more than two a year - and there are signs one is coming before it really hits home - and I can usually calm her down with a few well chosen words and a big hug.

Its another challenge for us, there's no question of it. But shes smart, talented, sweet, thoughtful, funny and caring (not to mention cute), and I love her. Better a wonderful bipolar than a well-adjusted bitch.

 

[myinnerslut]

Better a wonderful bipolar than a well-adjusted bitch.

your girlfriend is very lucky

 

[Mamid]

the movie "The Secretary" deals with the bdsm and mental health issue but not in a blatant "this is BDSM" and "this is mental ilness" way. You have to know what you are looking at to spot it.

The interesting thing is that it makes the entire process out to be a very healing one.

 

[Penalt]

Well, for the first time ever I've gotten depressed and overwhelmed to the point my doctor actually prescribed some stuff for me. As of this morning I am taking Effexor. Apparently its relatively minor stuff but its a little scary to me. The fact that I am not dealing with my emotional state without medication is scary. I've always had such firm control.

The other part that worries me is that I don't know what is me and what is the drug. Am I calmer or less calm because of the drug or is it me? Am I tired because I didn't sleep well or is it making me drowsy? Strange new pharmacology lies ahead.

 

[Etoile]

the movie "The Secretary" deals with the bdsm and mental health issue but not in a blatant "this is BDSM" and "this is mental ilness" way. You have to know what you are looking at to spot it.

The interesting thing is that it makes the entire process out to be a very healing one.

I really love "Secretary" especially when she wets herself rather than move. But I'm not sure that it's a fair depiction of BDSM as healing. We have had threads that discussed this very topic in great detail, and some people felt that it was unrealistic.

 

[Etoile]

Well, for the first time ever I've gotten depressed and overwhelmed to the point my doctor actually prescribed some stuff for me. As of this morning I am taking Effexor. Apparently its relatively minor stuff but its a little scary to me. The fact that I am not dealing with my emotional state without medication is scary. I've always had such firm control.

The other part that worries me is that I don't know what is me and what is the drug. Am I calmer or less calm because of the drug or is it me? Am I tired because I didn't sleep well or is it making me drowsy? Strange new pharmacology lies ahead.

My advice would be to put less energy into it. Don't worry about why you are less calm, or why you are tired - rest assured that the drug is doing what it should be. Depression is usually caused by a chemical imbalance, and the drug corrects that. Also, don't think about "am I depressed? Am I feeling better?" yet. Effexor, like most of the antidepressants in use today, takes a little while to work. Keep taking it for at least a month before you start analyzing your mood. Once you've been on it for a while, you will be able to tell if it's working for you or not - and sometimes they will work for a while and then stop, and you'll know when it has done that, too.

Just so you know where I am coming from, I developed depression in early 1998 and I have been on a bunch of antidepressants since then. It's about finding the one that works for you - this is a very inexact science. I have been on six different drugs, and I finally found that Wellbutrin is the right one for me.

Do NOT worry about not being able to deal with it on your own. We have control over our emotions - we can choose to be angry or not, etc - but we can't control our neurochemicals. It happens that a lack of certain chemicals manifests in an emotional way, but it's still a brain issue, not an emotional deficiency.

If you want to PM me about it, feel free. I've had a lot of experience and done a lot of research, and I'm here to help if you want - but no obligation.

 

[Mamid]

Actually, the two scenes in particular were the ones that dealt with her cutting tools. The first one is the one where we see that she has them. The second one, where she disposes of them, by his request. If she hadn't started on the path to healing, she would not have gotten rid of them all. She would have kept some.

 

[Etoile]

Actually, the two scenes in particular were the ones that dealt with her cutting tools. The first one is the one where we see that she has them. The second one, where she disposes of them, by his request. If she hadn't started on the path to healing, she would not have gotten rid of them all. She would have kept some.

The other thread about this was a lot more complex; I remember there were people in there who were cutters themselves who disliked the way it was shown. I dunno.

I tried searching for the thread and I just couldn't find it; I think it might have been in the thread about how "we're all waiting" for the movie "The Pet" - but I can't find that thread.

 

[cati]

ABX.... I've been taking Zoloft and Ritalin for nearly 8 years now. My entire family suffers from mood swings, but my younger son and I are the only people taking meds. mostly for anxiety and mild OCD. Over the last few months I've developed the "occasional" twitch in my hands when I'm about to reach for something. I'm the only one who has noticed this thus far. From what I have read I understand that "some" people taking Zoloft for any length of time can develope minor symptoms of Tourette's syndrome, hence the twitches or tics. I realize that my body and mind have developed a physical need for Zoloft. Going off the meds is out of the question.
As you so succinctly put it.... better a well adjusted and happy "subbie" than in my case a confrontational (bitch). I'm sorry to hear that your girl is experiencing some nasty side effects from her meds. Lets hope some of this is only temporary.

 

[MelancholyBaby]

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder (type 2) about a year ago. I've got a wonderful, wonderful therapist who knows that I am submissive and am in a D/s relationship. She actually uses the knowledge that He is supportive and caring as part of my threatment, for lack of a better word. She has never said anything negative about it; the only thing she ever commented on was on certain aspects of our relationship and the fact that it is only online at this time although we plan on making it r/t eventually. Once I could justify some things to her, to show her I understood what I was getting into, she was immediately tolerant and understanding. I loves her ta pieces.

Most of my therapists and doctors I've had have been supportive of what kind of relationship I desired so I'm very lucky. Some of them I didn't share it with because, as most of us know, some people you just can't share with. But now I'm very lucky and happy.

ohhh, and ABX...the comment about your girlfriend is soooo sweet and precious I just had to tell you that.

 

[SpectreT]

Oh, I can so identify...perhaps that is why I have always liked most of what you have to say. It is the pits, but I must say I am like you in not wanting to succumb to the usual solution of pills and go home, don't woory about the nasty side effects. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps this society at this point in time is too prone to the easy quick fix without really fixing anything, or making it worse just in another way. I have learned to recognise the onset of each phase, have developed some coping mechanisms, recognising triggers, just is a matter of riding the wave and being able to believe there will be a light at the end of the tunnel, and maintaining some level of caring about trying to handle it which does not always happen. The alternative of chemically induced beigeness does nt appeal, nor is it good for my creative side which dominates much of who I am.

Catalina

Hm. The pill pushing side of the business I tend to (correctly or not) view as something like a massive shot of painkillers that lets someone walk on a broken leg - they're walking, sure, but that bone isn't getting healed - they just can't feel the damage they've done and are continuing to do.

 

[Netzach]

Well, for the first time ever I've gotten depressed and overwhelmed to the point my doctor actually prescribed some stuff for me. As of this morning I am taking Effexor. Apparently its relatively minor stuff but its a little scary to me. The fact that I am not dealing with my emotional state without medication is scary. I've always had such firm control.

The other part that worries me is that I don't know what is me and what is the drug. Am I calmer or less calm because of the drug or is it me? Am I tired because I didn't sleep well or is it making me drowsy? Strange new pharmacology lies ahead.

Being depressed isn't a loss of control. It's the hard and fast reality that we're comprised of a bunch of molecules and they do stuff. Some people's start doing stuff they shouldn't and some people don't have enough of others so they're operating with half a tank less of what they need than other people. I began to view it in the sense of having an undue *disadvantage* not a personal weakness and that helped me a lot in terms of accepting medicines.

The process of finding out *which* meds and how much is akin to dating at times, be careful observant and patient and willing to tell your Doc you need to break up with a med that's not doing anything for you after a month or two.

 

[Netzach]

Hm. The pill pushing side of the business I tend to (correctly or not) view as something like a massive shot of painkillers that lets someone walk on a broken leg - they're walking, sure, but that bone isn't getting healed - they just can't feel the damage they've done and are continuing to do.

This is why most people and most MD's suggest a regimen of medication AND therapy and not just "here have some pills"
there are idiot MD's out there, but that idea of the pill pushing psychiatrist who just writes out whatever and says "whadda ya go see a headshrinker for here just take these!" is a total fabrication IME.

Fabulous for those of you who are "strong enough" to manage without meds, well whatever, we all make choices. A lot of the people I met like that are more akin to people with gunshot wounds refusing stitches. My grandmother is a perfect example of a depressive who can proudly claim being med-free for 50 years - she has no friends, her husband plopped dead of a sudden heart attack (stress?) and she'll proudly tell you how she's in emotional agony every day of her life. But try a stinking zoloft? Never. Therapy is also something for other people.

 

[Etoile]

Hm. The pill pushing side of the business I tend to (correctly or not) view as something like a massive shot of painkillers that lets someone walk on a broken leg - they're walking, sure, but that bone isn't getting healed - they just can't feel the damage they've done and are continuing to do.

I don't agree with that analogy for mental health, though. Depression, anxiety, and ADHD - all of which I am medicated for - are chemical imbalances. If you leave them alone, they stay that way...you can't "fix" them on your own, and you're probably not making them worse by taking the medication, either. I am really a strong proponent of psychoactive medication, actually, when prescribed by a licensed professional who has appropriately diagnosed the patient. The list of things I could not do if I were not on my meds is very, very long. I don't feel it means I'm weak because I can't accomplish basic living tasks without medication - the meds are just part of who I am, and I do live just fine the way I am.

Meds aren't for everybody, but it makes me sad to see people critique those who do embrace them, because it is a very close personal issue for me.

 

[Netzach]

I don't agree with that analogy for mental health, though. Depression, anxiety, and ADHD - all of which I am medicated for - are chemical imbalances. If you leave them alone, they stay that way...you can't "fix" them on your own, and you're probably not making them worse by taking the medication, either. I am really a strong proponent of psychoactive medication, actually, when prescribed by a licensed professional who has appropriately diagnosed the patient. The list of things I could not do if I were not on my meds is very, very long. I don't feel it means I'm weak because I can't accomplish basic living tasks without medication - the meds are just part of who I am, and I do live just fine the way I am.

Meds aren't for everybody, but it makes me sad to see people critique those who do embrace them, because it is a very close personal issue for me.

I also find it reprehensible when people say they're a "quick fix." Most of the people I know on meds, including me, put them off for YEARS of suffering, until life became completely intolerable. Do you seriously think that with the stigma that depression, illness, and medicines still carry in this society that most people just blithely consume? Who are you to question anyone's decisions to try something in a continued desire to not kill themselves?

I'm fortunate in that my depression is episodic rather than chronic a little zoloft and a lot of therapy gave me the tools I've needed since that time - I still probably would have thrown myself off something if I hadn't decided that help was preferable to being able to say I did everything alone.

My one regret about the yearlong Crohn's flareup I had was that prednisone clouds your thinking to the point where I was very adamant about NOT taking more meds and I went through the really frightening and debilitatingly depressing experience of being seriously ill without remotely adequate coverage in terms of psych meds OR therapy. I was really able to go it alone in my mind!

Ask anyone who loves me if I should have been at least in therapy if not on some meds.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hm. The pill pushing side of the business I tend to (correctly or not) view as something like a massive shot of painkillers that lets someone walk on a broken leg - they're walking, sure, but that bone isn't getting healed - they just can't feel the damage they've done and are continuing to do.

Interestingly I watched a 2 hour doco on Bipolar a few weeks ago which interviewed many people who had been long term sufferers and also looked at various methods of treating the illness. One of the most interesting was a brain surgeon who had been institutionalised about 20 years ago due to the severity of her condition and frequence of psychotic episodes, and who had taken the prescribed medication for a time afterward, but then decided to try something unconventional in terms of bipolar. She tossed her medication, and began a programme of specified diet and natural supplements, and now is able to work and live and has not had a psychotic episode since beginning her programme of natural healing, nor touched any form of medication in that time...think she has been doing it 15 years now.

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

She tossed her medication, and began a programme of specified diet and natural supplements, and now is able to work and live and has not had a psychotic episode since beginning her programme of natural healing, nor touched any form of medication in that time...think she has been doing it 15 years now.

That's excellent for her, bipolar disorder is particularly difficult to deal with. However, I feel like this story you've told is seen as the "preferred" way to do it. (I don't mean that you specifically think it's better to go all-natural, but I hear lots of people express that opinion.) And I wish that wasn't the case. I have no desire to get off my meds and try an all-natural program, my meds work for me the way I am, and I don't feel like they are adversely affecting me in exchange. It's similar to when I see people advertising diet changes as a fix for ADHD...they try to tell me that I don't need to be on the meds if I will just change what I eat. Well, I like what I eat, and I like my meds, so why would I want to change? I just don't like the negative stigma attached to taking advantage of modern psychopharmacology. (Again, Catalina, I'm not saying you're doing it - you just told a story, I'm talking about the theory behind what the woman did.)

 

[Netzach]

That's excellent for her, bipolar disorder is particularly difficult to deal with. However, I feel like this story you've told is seen as the "preferred" way to do it. (I don't mean that you specifically think it's better to go all-natural, but I hear lots of people express that opinion.) And I wish that wasn't the case. I have no desire to get off my meds and try an all-natural program, my meds work for me the way I am, and I don't feel like they are adversely affecting me in exchange. It's similar to when I see people advertising diet changes as a fix for ADHD...they try to tell me that I don't need to be on the meds if I will just change what I eat. Well, I like what I eat, and I like my meds, so why would I want to change? I just don't like the negative stigma attached to taking advantage of modern psychopharmacology. (Again, Catalina, I'm not saying you're doing it - you just told a story, I'm talking about the theory behind what the woman did.)

I'm in the middle on this. I altered the way I ate a LOT in the effort to not have to take a particular medication for CD. This has a lot of potential side-effects which I'm not keen on and a lot of unknowns. I *have* seen people underinformed about side effects, or happy to risk side effects but hit hard by them with all kinds of medicines. I see people eating garbage and complaining about their ill health with digestive disorders all the time *and* I see a medical community that says "eat whatever works it doesn't matter, here take these" in response.

All I know is that most people do NOT say "I think I'm just going to take this really toxic stuff because I'm too stupid or too lazy to try anything else."

Additionally, most people are bad controls for saying natural works or does not because most people pursue these therapies as complements to meds. I changed what I ate, but I sure as shit wasn't flushing my 6mp. To me, the logical thing to do would be to eat well try and work out (working out is shown to do wonders for depression) AND take meds, maybe play with dosage depending on how well I did with the other things.

 

[SpectreT]

This is why most people and most MD's suggest a regimen of medication AND therapy and not just "here have some pills"
there are idiot MD's out there, but that idea of the pill pushing psychiatrist who just writes out whatever and says "whadda ya go see a headshrinker for here just take these!" is a total fabrication IME.

All I'll say is a very close personal friend had one of those "total fabrications" for two years before he chucked his pills and his therapist. He's never been back to either one, for that matter, and unlike me, is doing okay without them.

Fabulous for those of you who are "strong enough" to manage without meds, well whatever, we all make choices. A lot of the people I met like that are more akin to people with gunshot wounds refusing stitches. My grandmother is a perfect example of a depressive who can proudly claim being med-free for 50 years - she has no friends, her husband plopped dead of a sudden heart attack (stress?) and she'll proudly tell you how she's in emotional agony every day of her life. But try a stinking zoloft? Never. Therapy is also something for other people.

"Strong enough"?

No. Not even close.

But I don't think it's necessary to tell you that it's very nearly unbelievable just how much a person can take (physically, mentally or emotionally) when they have (or are aware of) no other options. Your own discusssions of dealing with your Crohn's illustrate my point far more powerfully than my own internal struggles, I think.

I don't qualify for any public assistance I'm aware of, and certainly can't afford insurance, let alone therapy. Combine that with my friend's experience, and I suppose my reluctance fits into a (somewhat) more complete picture. Moreover, I still have grave doubts over whether the chemical imbalances are the cause of manic-depression, or are caused by it. Until someone can prove it to me beyond the shadow of a doubt, I'm afraid my negative thoughts will remain.

 

[Netzach]

All I'll say is a very close personal friend had one of those "total fabrications" for two years before he chucked his pills and his therapist. He's never been back to either one, for that matter, and unlike me, is doing okay without them.

"Strong enough"?

No. Not even close.

But I don't think it's necessary to tell you that it's very nearly unbelievable just how much a person can take (physically, metnally or emotionally) when they have (or are aware of) no other options. Your own discusssions of dealing with your Crohn's illustrate my point far more powerfully than my own internal struggles, I think.

I don't qualify for any public assistance I'm aware of, and certainly can't afford insurance, let alone therapy. Combine that with my friend's experience, and I suppose my reluctance fits into a (somewhat) more complete picture. Moreover, I still have grave doubts over whether the chemical imbalances are the cause of manic-depression, or are caused by it. Until someone can prove it to me beyond the shadow of a doubt, I'm afraid my negative thoughts will remain.

For everyone who's chucked therapy and meds and done fine there's someone else who did the same and is a suicide stat. All it says is that the human brain is really a strangely malfunctioning machine.

Your concerns are yours to navigate - I'll say only this:

I was flat broke on therapy and when taking meds. As in I was making a 5400 dollar stipend for an academic year and paying rent.

I found a sliding scale therapist and ate as cheaply as possible. I finally paid the last of the bills I was harrassed for the year after, with bad credit. I didn't have any assurance any of it would help, but I knew that status quo wasn't going to be ok.

 

[catalina_francisco]

That's excellent for her, bipolar disorder is particularly difficult to deal with. However, I feel like this story you've told is seen as the "preferred" way to do it. (I don't mean that you specifically think it's better to go all-natural, but I hear lots of people express that opinion.) And I wish that wasn't the case. I have no desire to get off my meds and try an all-natural program, my meds work for me the way I am, and I don't feel like they are adversely affecting me in exchange. It's similar to when I see people advertising diet changes as a fix for ADHD...they try to tell me that I don't need to be on the meds if I will just change what I eat. Well, I like what I eat, and I like my meds, so why would I want to change? I just don't like the negative stigma attached to taking advantage of modern psychopharmacology. (Again, Catalina, I'm not saying you're doing it - you just told a story, I'm talking about the theory behind what the woman did.)

Personally if I were in her position I would do the same and at least give it a try because I have had enough of medical fuck ups to last a lifetime. I have learned that just because a doctor says something is best, or they release a drug that they say is OK, it isn't always so. My first experience of this was when I was 14 and I was prescriberd a medication by a psychiatrist which at the time was the greatest thing out according to the medical profession....being me, and already having an aversion to putting chemicals into my body (and which all alter the body chemistry in some way), I was flushing the little tablets more than taking them....6 months into my treatment they found out that these miracle pills actually could cause permanent brain damage and they were hurriedly removed from the market. Seems they had not done enough research before giving them out to the public. If medication or surgery is the only way to go, fine, but it takes a lot to convince me it is the best alternative and only then if they can back their argument up with medical facts which are not biased and more than 'because it is best (or easiest) for you' arguments.

These days I am doing the same research and checking for my son and yes, I have had a couple of doctors give us the line 'it usually works so why not try it?' and want me to ignore the deadly or life changing possible side effects or the fact that as they also now acknowledge, he does not react to medications in the same way most people do so not onlyu are their solutions likely to prove useless, they also might be deadly or permanently damaging for him to take them. A lot of the medical profession do prefer the popular fix (often based on kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies who bribe them to promote their product with patients) as it makes their job easier, saves their time, but has very little to do with the patients best interest.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

All I'll say is a very close personal friend had one of those "total fabrica

But I don't think it's necessary to tell you that it's very nearly unbelievable just how much a person can take (physically, mentally or emotionally) when they have (or are aware of) no other options. Your own discusssions of dealing with your Crohn's illustrate my point far more powerfully than my own internal struggles, I think.

The irony is just how crazy I was to be able to do that. Pred made me hear voices - I had *just* enough sense of connection to not listen to them and to know they were from pred. It was a deeper, past-depressed kind of crazy crazy than I'd ever had experience with.

If that was my baseline reailty without steroids I hope to God someone would help me to change it. I can see how someone can be so ill they have no concept of their own illness.

 

[Etoile]

I don't qualify for any public assistance I'm aware of, and certainly can't afford insurance, let alone therapy.

Totally unrelated to the "are pills good or bad" discussion, but are you in the U.S.? Perhaps not being able to afford insurance qualifies you for something? Admittedly I don't know much about it, except that I know our system sucks.

 

[Netzach]

Personally if I were in her position I would do the same and at least give it a try because I have had enough of medical fuck ups to last a lifetime. I have learned that just because a doctor says something is best, or they release a drug that they say is OK, it isn't always so. My first experience of this was when I was 14 and I was prescriberd a medication by a psychiatrist which at the time was the greatest thing out according to the medical profession....being me, and already having an aversion to putting chemicals into my body (and which all alter the body chemistry in some way), I was flushing the little tablets more than taking them....6 months into my treatment they found out that these miracle pills actually could cause permanent brain damage and they were hurriedly removed from the market. Seems they had not done enough research before giving them out to the public. If medication or surgery is the only way to go, fine, but it takes a lot to convince me it is the best alternative and only then if they can back their argument up with medical facts which are not biased and more than 'because it is best (or easiest) for you' arguments.

These days I am doing the same research and checking for my son and yes, I have had a couple of doctors give us the line 'it usually works so why not try it?' and want me to ignore the deadly or life changing possible side effects or the fact that as they also now acknowledge, he does not react to medications in the same way most people do so not onlyu are their solutions likely to prove useless, they also might be deadly or permanently damaging for him to take them. A lot of the medical profession do prefer the popular fix (often based on kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies who bribe them to promote their product with patients) as it makes their job easier, saves their time, but has very little to do with the patients best interest.

Catalina

I agree with everything said here. But I remember the offensiveness of the "look I cured my Crohn's without meds and so can you!" people.

Even though I went on their diet, I remember thinking "it's not like I asked to go on a chemo med, assholes."

It's not about purity, nature, "better than those poisons the establishment gives out like candy!"

for me it's about throwing as much shit as I can back at my disease to keep it away, it's about keeping the less attractive options at bay. "Never" is a really a lot to live up to.

 

[Netzach]

Anyhow I feel like the biggest hijacker ever.

I would not date, screw, or dominate myself on prednisone if you paid me a million bucks, that's my definition of "too insane."