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1 in 4 Americans think the Sun goes around the Earth. Does it matter?
- Thread starter KingOrfeo
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We're talking about the students here, right? Because you can't possibly be talking about the schoolteachers or the administrators. Their "personal gain at taxpayer expense" is probably comparable to a cop's or a librarian's or a courthouse clerk's or any other local civil servant's; you "believe in" those, I hope.
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Then you are wrong, and answered, see above.
bronzeage
I am a river to my people
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Education bad. Unions bad.
Toe tapping is bad only if you get caught.
The real problem of the American system is this fairly new (and kind of liberal idea) that children must attend school, even if their family does not give a fuck.
Any child who lives in a home where attending and doing well in school is expected, will show up for class and do well. There was a time when they were the only children in school. Overall performance was pretty good. It really didn't matter what economic strata or the education level of the parents. Parents who demand and support their child student get good students for their effort.
These days, we work very hard to keep every child in school. This includes the children who don't understand why they are there and don't see any point or reward. This makes a tough job for school staff. They get blamed for not producing college bound graduates and are graded based on how many students make the full 12 years, as if the few hours a day they spend with a student can make up for living in a home where there is no alarm clock or milk in the fridge.
Neo-cons have trouble with labor unions because they don't like to deal with people on an equal basis. They want subservient employees who bow and scrape. For some reason, they are convinced the schools would improve if it were easier to fire teachers, which is a little strange, since they show no inclination to pay the replacements more money or improve working conditions. Whatever neo-cons learned in school, it was very little about the basic economics of the workplace.
Bad_Doggie
Qu'est-ce que c'est?
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Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
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Someone please tell me that Vette didn't ask for proof that on the whole Europe is more liberal than America. I mean if that's the level of crazy denial we're working with here. . .
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You can't possibly believe American public schoolteachers are overpaid.
RobDownSouth
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I know YOU don't, but I suspect your caregiver or whoever changes your Depends does....
Still quoting Full Metal Jacket I see. Most of your "Marine stories" seem to have come from there and Heartbreak Ridge, I've noticed.
I suspect it's been a very long time since you've learned something new.
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Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
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Just a few off the list.
Germany, Finland, Estonia, Canada, the UK, France. I guess you could cherry pick Hong Kong and Singapore if you like but they are far from the majority of the list.
If we're debating union strength France ended up with schools shut down around the country. Not a district, not a state but the country. Our teachers lack the strength to really effect change.
bronzeage
I am a river to my people
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You got that one from Jenn.
Sean Renaud
The West Coast Pop
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Yeah, who cares that they only work 9 months a year. They also put in more hours than nearly any other profession and they only get paid for 9 months a year on top of that. They have the option to spread out when they receive the payments but woo.
Phelia
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Your tenuous grasp on reality is genuinely concerning. It's like arguing with someone who claims the sky isn't blue. You're the one who referenced these global rankings, so you should know exactly what they say. If you believe my claim is incorrect, then by all means, prove me wrong and find even one report where US students are not outperformed by Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and a whole host of European countries, but I'm not going to take a picture of the fucking sky for you.
bronzeage
I am a river to my people
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dolf
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it saddens me to see such wide scale ignorance and stupidity in the world. what is going wrong with our educational system that so many are so misinformed. sadly, find this sort of ignorance on a near daily basis. i'd say at least a third of people I know just have absolutely no idea that the world revolves around me. shameful.
Phelia
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Ah, okay. So you don't understand the concept/definition of "majority." That's okay. It's really not the point. I'll simplify the question (but read it slowly, just in case).
If the reason US schools are under-performing is because we are too liberal/have unionized teachers, why do so many liberal countries with strong teachers' unions continue to outrank us?
Remember, we're talking about scientific education here. If the question has to be politicized and finger-pointed, I won't deny there's some anti-scientific quackery on the left (overinflated nuclear-power fears, alternative medicine, anti-vaxxers, etc.); but on the left it's marginal, on the right it's now mainstream (evolution-denial, global-warming denial, any-kind-of-environmental-damage denial, pseudoscience about abortion, anti-vaxxers, etc., etc., etc. -- sometimes actually driving the GOP's platform and agenda). Which side -- to the extent either can be -- do you really think is more responsible for scientific ignorance among the American masses?
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