A question for the believers....

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Dranoel
I promise I won't break anything worse than his pride.

No, no... please... "break his pride". How exactly is that supposed to work?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

No, I think it more evidentary that it's for your good. That it makes you feel important or big, that it makes you brave. I put it in the same category as hearing about your friend eight times out of ten posts. It's for effect, and your own benifit.



So, just so I'm on the same page... what is it you think you know about me that justifies this strange belief you have that I either censor myself around violent people or that I have an inability to handle myself should it get to that.

Near as I can tell, you don't really have any information on that. But sure... I'll bite.

Why?

*Blink Blink* A'ight I'll bite.

A) Your attempt at macho posturing here for one.
B) No matter how "bad ass" you may think yourself in that situation, you won't be nearly as bad ass as you think. Especially when they're in packs.
C) Your inability to notice a button when you've pressed it.
D) Your utter disdain for others that includes an underestimation of their intelligence to see through your petty word games. Someone trying to run you for a ruse is the quickest way to anger.
E) Your continual smugness that tries to cut the world into intellectual "debating" games and how quickly that coallesces to fisticuffs if paired with C.
F) Your uncomfortableness with the use of empathy, the number one escape route of dicey situations.

There are more of course, but I don't want to make this into a Charlie Brown "Flaw" comic, because that's too weird and cruel for me to be doing.




And now the beginning paragraph. Me matters not. Surprised as you may be to hear this, I not only do not pride my ego but am in fact anti-ego. Egos slow you down, allow too many stings. If believing that this is all some posturing of mine is what helps fit me in your neat psychologist world, *shrug*. No skin of my nose.

What you believe about my friend is also entirely up to you. I know well which side you were and I well note your pissing on his memory. I can also well guess what you would have done to him if you had met him. I refrain from speaking much about him here, because of the tendency of your personality type to continue pissing on his memory long after his death. When I do, and you do, it ceases to surprise me. I got used to such long before I met the likes of you.



You're an asshole and a bully Joe and someday you're going to meet someone who's more of both than you and it will hurt and because you still cling to your ego, it will scar and you maybe you'll think of this post and curse me for being right.

 

[Guest]

Because if a thing participates in "Truth" it would need an exempting reason to cateorize its responsibility differently than other things that participate in "Truth"... not a reason to keep it in. It's having a truth value at all already puts it in.

So you are saying that you can prove your religion is the truth? Beyond a shadow of a doubt? Your god exists and you have indisputable proof? Show me.

Possibly things like cancer. If, religiously speaking, there are mandates against smoking--for instance--then lung cancer odds go way down.

I'm not talking about more legislation passed for the benifit of the church. Can believing in your gad prevent me fro contracting cancer? Does believing save you from even a common cold? Can you show that your beliefs will eliminate disease?

It could stop racism, I can think of a great many spiritual leaders who believe that--and demonstrated it a great number of times. It could lead to social inclusion of homosexuality--a lot of work is being done right now involving those very things. It well could make politicians honest, if its a moral code that is strict enough. (I don't think the majority of the world's politicians are Christian, that may be true, I couldn't say... but I'm not sure, beyond that, that Christian politicians are somehow more morally reprehensible than non-Christian politicians. Actually, I'm not sure of the point you're making with that anyway).

And yet most KKK members would claim to be christains doing the right thing in the eyes of their god.

Possible reasons for wanting to inform others, even convince them, about the structure, form, or function of one's beliefs could be a desire to improve the life of another person. It could be to give the other person spiritual options. It could be to reflect a desire for adherance to a goal of truth or accuracy. Lots of potential reasons.

But it is that persons choice to seek to better his life. Who are you to say his life is not better? See we are once again back to the christian belief that non-christians are lesser people.

I don't have anything intelligent to say about your dinner or how often you have to look at things, though.

It, statistically, is also offensive to non-Christians. It has been maintained as illegal for quite a few reasons.

I have nothing intelligent to say about your odds of public viewing... I'm not even sure what you're talking about at this point.

Nudity was just an example. I could cite a dozen others if you like. The point was I don't care for seeing that cross everywhere. nor do I want to see religious advertising on billboards or TV. But I'm not lobbying to stop it.

There are laws that prevent bars and "gentlemen's clubs" from opening within a given distance from a church. But are there laws that prevent a church from opening up within that same distance of a bar? Not that I know of. But we both know what happens when a church opens near a gentleman's club. Within 6 months the club is closed at the request of the church.

Fair is fair. BOTH ways.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Lucifer_Carroll
*Blink Blink* A'ight I'll bite.

A) Your attempt at macho posturing here for one.
B) No matter how "bad ass" you may think yourself in that situation, you won't be nearly as bad ass as you think. Especially when they're in packs.
C) Your inability to notice a button when you've pressed it.
D) Your utter disdain for others that includes an underestimation of their intelligence to see through your petty word games. Someone trying to run you for a ruse is the quickest way to anger.
E) Your continual smugness that tries to cut the world into intellectual "debating" games and how quickly that coallesces to fisticuffs if paired with C.
F) Your uncomfortableness with the use of empathy, the number one escape route of dicey situations.

A) I haven't been the one macho-ly posturing the ability to beat other people up... or others being able to do so. You have yourself to thank for that.
B) The hypothetical "being jumped by a lot of people" game is supposed to prove what? That it takes a lot of people? That people can be beat up by a lot of people? That, specifically, I am more susceptible to many people beat-downs? You're backpeddling.
C) I notice.
D) I don't underestimate anyone's intelligence. I err, often, in an overestimation of it until evidence tears that down--I think to be a good teacher you have to err that way.
E) I don't see the pursuit of accuracy as a "game". I'm disappointed when people do.
F) My seeming lack of comfort with empathy means I will be unable to escape a threatening situation? I don't see that as conclusive at all. I can think of a number of situations that an extremely empathetic person (emotional, reckless with restraint of emotion) would be less likely to evade or escape.

So... I would be less able to handle myself against some hypothetical group of people trying to beat me up because... because of nothing specific and nothing evidentiary.

Right. This is really childish.

What you believe about my friend is also entirely up to you. I know well which side you were and I well note your pissing on his memory. I can also well guess what you would have done to him if you had met him. I refrain from speaking much about him here, because of the tendency of your personality type to continue pissing on his memory long after his death. When I do, and you do, it ceases to surprise me. I got used to such long before I met the likes of you.

Because what I may think is up to me (and not even voiced by me), I don't think you have the slightest clue what side I'd be on, much less "know". You hardly refrain from speaking much about him, it has been repeated a lot. If it makes you feel morally superior to think of me as "pissing" on him or whatever, I can't stop that... but I haven't done anything but refer to your actions and character, nothing about his.

You're an asshole and a bully Joe and someday you're going to meet someone who's more of both than you and it will hurt and because you still cling to your ego, it will scar and you maybe you'll think of this post and curse me for being right.

I have had the predictable fortune, thus far, of never having to even consider you close to being right. If I'm that much of a pain or obsession or problem for you, put me on ignore.

You're just proving with every mention of my name, every little "look at me be big and derrogatory" comment, every mistake you make about me and what I think, every accusation that winds up with you backpeddling and apologizing... you're just proving that you don't have anything to say to me.

So stop.

 

[Guest]

*Blink Blink* A'ight I'll bite.

A) Your attempt at macho posturing here for one.
B) No matter how "bad ass" you may think yourself in that situation, you won't be nearly as bad ass as you think. Especially when they're in packs.
C) Your inability to notice a button when you've pressed it.
D) Your utter disdain for others that includes an underestimation of their intelligence to see through your petty word games. Someone trying to run you for a ruse is the quickest way to anger.
E) Your continual smugness that tries to cut the world into intellectual "debating" games and how quickly that coallesces to fisticuffs if paired with C.
F) Your uncomfortableness with the use of empathy, the number one escape route of dicey situations.

There are more of course, but I don't want to make this into a Charlie Brown "Flaw" comic, because that's too weird and cruel for me to be doing.




And now the beginning paragraph. Me matters not. Surprised as you may be to hear this, I not only do not pride my ego but am in fact anti-ego. Egos slow you down, allow too many stings. If believing that this is all some posturing of mine is what helps fit me in your neat psychologist world, *shrug*. No skin of my nose.

What you believe about my friend is also entirely up to you. I know well which side you were and I well note your pissing on his memory. I can also well guess what you would have done to him if you had met him. I refrain from speaking much about him here, because of the tendency of your personality type to continue pissing on his memory long after his death. When I do, and you do, it ceases to surprise me. I got used to such long before I met the likes of you.



You're an asshole and a bully Joe and someday you're going to meet someone who's more of both than you and it will hurt and because you still cling to your ego, it will scar and you maybe you'll think of this post and curse me for being right.

Actually, L_C, his problem is much simpler than that, but uit is the cause of the traits you identified.

You see Joe holds "Winning the Arguement" higher than anything in the world. This not only prevents him from seeing when he is wrong, but it prevents him from believing he could ever possibly be wrong. (his god surely wouldn't allow him to make a fool of himself by being wrong.)

So he just keeps on pushing his poiint until everyone gives up and won't talk to him anymore. At that point he belives he has won. Sadly at no point in the arguement did he even attempt to find any "truth" in his opponants points. He just argued against them even more vehemently whether what he said held water or not.

I would predict that unless Joe grows up he will grow old a bitter, lonely man.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

So you are saying that you can prove your religion is the truth? Beyond a shadow of a doubt? Your god exists and you have indisputable proof? Show me.

That wasn't what I said. Please re-read. I said that things that participate in "Truth" (claim truth, suppose their truth, reason their truth, etc.) are in the same category... namely, as things that have truth-value (whether positive or negative). We'd have to establish a reason why religious truth is different that other truths if we're to exempt it from the same standards.

I'm not talking about more legislation passed for the benifit of the church. Can believing in your gad prevent me fro contracting cancer? Does believing save you from even a common cold? Can you show that your beliefs will eliminate disease?

If the religious belief has statues or mandates from God against things that cause cancer... then belief and adherance to that belief could be a preventative step. I think of how religious overtones help with Alcoholics Anonymous, actually.

And yet most KKK members would claim to be christains doing the right thing in the eyes of their god

I suppose. But you asked if religion could stop racism. I maintain that a great many civil rights and human rights leaders used it very well to that effect. That there are people that use it to propogate it would say to me that they are purporting a bad belief, and exploiting its conditions.

But it is that persons choice to seek to better his life. Who are you to say his life is not better? See we are once again back to the christian belief that non-christians are lesser people.

Actually, it hasn't anything to do with Christianity specifically... I don't believe I made mention of that at all in the point. It may be someone's choice, but giving them choices isn't choosing for them. You asked why would people "push" beliefs (I take that as why would people share or inform, because to assume the word "push" is to pre-suppose the disposition of the interaction)... I offered several. I think the "options" possibility is very strong and hardly invasive.

Nudity was just an example. I could cite a dozen others if you like. The point was I don't care for seeing that cross everywhere. nor do I want to see religious advertising on billboards or TV. But I'm not lobbying to stop it.

There are laws that prevent bars and "gentlemen's clubs" from opening within a given distance from a church. But are there laws that prevent a church from opening up within that same distance of a bar? Not that I know of. But we both know what happens when a church opens near a gentleman's club. Within 6 months the club is closed at the request of the church.

Fair is fair. BOTH ways.

I suppose. I can offer a little bit of an anecdotal story, as we're apparently starting to tell them:

Here in Oxford (quite Southern, quite Bible Belt) to open a bar to close to a Church is a violation of codes. Similarly to open a church too close to a bar is a violation of the primacy of the property layouts--the Church cannot actually manage it because it would put the Bar into a legal zoning conflict, without the Bar's being at fault.

The laws do go both ways.

However, beyond churches, those laws exist for schools and playgrounds, too... what are we to think of them?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Figures.

Whatever Joe. You're predictable.

This is childish, but I probably should have guessed when I took the bait. The fact that you're utterly oblivious to anything I'm saying says all that needs saying.

Sure, imagine whatever, though your attempt is truly hilarious in its irony.

You're not pain to me. You're old news. Just another foolish bully thinking that I haven't been through it all before. Another asshole who doesn't think I haven't seen it all before.

I'm a nihilist and a romantic. I do this because of the fatal flaw of mine that was passed down, yes, by him, which is the belief that people have good inside and that assholes and bullies have the ability to not be so. I won't put you on ignore, because frankly Joe as much as you might want me to hurt, I don't. This is all so pathetically rerun.

You think it's a source of pride that I apologized when I screwed up while you didn't when you did. That it was a sign of victory when we pointed out in neon how you were resorting to old debate tricks and circular aguments. So be it. No skin off our noses.

I really do pity you Joe. I really do. Because you really don't get it and probably never will.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Dranoel
Actually, L_C, his problem is much simpler than that, but uit is the cause of the traits you identified.

You see Joe holds "Winning the Arguement" higher than anything in the world. This not only prevents him from seeing when he is wrong, but it prevents him from believing he could ever possibly be wrong. (his god surely wouldn't allow him to make a fool of himself by being wrong.)

So he just keeps on pushing his poiint until everyone gives up and won't talk to him anymore. At that point he belives he has won. Sadly at no point in the arguement did he even attempt to find any "truth" in his opponants points. He just argued against them even more vehemently whether what he said held water or not.

I would predict that unless Joe grows up he will grow old a bitter, lonely man.

Actually, Joe holds "accuracy in propsotion and consequent with regard to the three main statues of philosophy" as higher than anything in the world. It has served Joe well, professionally and personally. Joe's relationship to Joe's God seems to be a point of contention for you, but Joe would be delighted if you would explain what you know of it. Joe thinks you're assuming a whole lot based on very little.

Joe pushes for clarity. Joe doesn't believe in winning arguments, it was bred out of Joe during his scholarly work. Joe sees to clarify points, as that's the best way to get to "truth".

Joe may grow to be bitter and lonely, but he's doing alright these days. Your pessimism is... mostly irrelevant.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Lucifer_Carroll
Figures.

Whatever Joe. You're predictable.

So are you.

Sure, imagine whatever, though your attempt is truly hilarious in its irony.

O.k.

You're not pain to me. You're old news. Just another foolish bully thinking that I haven't been through it all before. Another asshole who doesn't think I haven't seen it all before.

I think you have seen it. And been kicked down by it. And have grudges against it.

I'm a nihilist and a romantic. I do this because of the fatal flaw of mine that was passed down, yes, by him, which is the belief that people have good inside and that assholes and bullies have the ability to not be so. I won't put you on ignore, because frankly Joe as much as you might want me to hurt, I don't. This is all so pathetically rerun.

I don't want you to hurt. You seem to have a need to think I do, though.

You think it's a source of pride that I apologized when I screwed up while you didn't when you did. That it was a sign of victory when we pointed out in neon how you were resorting to old debate tricks and circular aguments. So be it. No skin off our noses.

O.k.

I really do pity you Joe. I really do. Because you really don't get it and probably never will.

O.k.

Then stop trying. This will not be the first time you've shaken your tiny little fist and raised yourself above "this sort of thing". Please, by all means, stop.

 

[Guest]

That wasn't what I said. Please re-read. I said that things that participate in "Truth" (claim truth, suppose their truth, reason their truth, etc.) are in the same category... namely, as things that have truth-value (whether positive or negative). We'd have to establish a reason why religious truth is different that other truths if we're to exempt it from the same standards.

So if you cannot show me a shred of hard evidence that your god exists, where is the truth?

If the religious belief has statues or mandates from God against things that cause cancer... then belief and adherance to that belief could be a preventative step. I think of how religious overtones help with Alcoholics Anonymous, actually.

I'm not just talking about lung cancer caused by smoking, Joe. Let's try this a different way. Can "God" prevent breast cancer? Will your church prevent prostate cancer? The question was pretty fuckin' simple, Joe. CAN YOUR GOD PREVENT DISEASE?

Does not believing in your god put me at greater risk of having an auto accident?

Can he prevent eartquakes and tornadoes?

Stop dancing around the point and answer the fuckin' question.

Can you prove that your god is capable of ANYTHING?

And if you cannot prove that he can, why should I be obligated to listen to you or anyone else preach to me about how great he is?

Answer me that or the arguement is done as far as I am concerned.

 

[Guest]

Actually, Joe holds "accuracy in propsotion and consequent with regard to the three main statues of philosophy" as higher than anything in the world. It has served Joe well, professionally and personally. Joe's relationship to Joe's God seems to be a point of contention for you, but Joe would be delighted if you would explain what you know of it. Joe thinks you're assuming a whole lot based on very little.

Joe pushes for clarity. Joe doesn't believe in winning arguments, it was bred out of Joe during his scholarly work. Joe sees to clarify points, as that's the best way to get to "truth".

Joe may grow to be bitter and lonely, but he's doing alright these days. Your pessimism is... mostly irrelevant.

L_C? I smell bullshit. Do you smell bullshit? 'Cause I smell it pretty fuckin' strong here. Maybe I'm just closer geographicly, but I smell it and it's bad.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

That wasn't what I said. Please re-read. I said that things that participate in "Truth" (claim truth, suppose their truth, reason their truth, etc.) are in the same category... namely, as things that have truth-value (whether positive or negative). We'd have to establish a reason why religious truth is different that other truths if we're to exempt it from the same standards.

So if you cannot show me a shred of hard evidence that your god exists, where is the truth?

If the religious belief has statues or mandates from God against things that cause cancer... then belief and adherance to that belief could be a preventative step. I think of how religious overtones help with Alcoholics Anonymous, actually.

I'm not just talking about lung cancer caused by smoking, Joe. Let's try this a different way. Can "God" prevent breast cancer? Will your church prevent prostate cancer? The question was pretty fuckin' simple, Joe. CAN YOUR GOD PREVENT DISEASE?

Does not believing in your god put me at greater risk of having an auto accident?

Can he prevent eartquakes and tornadoes?

Stop dancing around the point and answer the fuckin' question.

Can you prove that your god is capable of ANYTHING?

And if you cannot prove that he can, why should I be obligated to listen to you or anyone else preach to me about how great he is?

Answer me that or the arguement is done as far as I am concerned. [/B]

I would really like to answer your questions... but can you answer just one of mine first?

You do understand that the questioning has nothing to do with my religious beliefs, right? You asked if religion could accomplish a number of things. I have shown how it can. That's pretty simple. If you want me to prove to you that my God, specifically, can do things... I don't see how that's relevant to the original point at all. Please enlighten me.

Originally posted by Dranoel
L_C? I smell bullshit. Do you smell bullshit? 'Cause I smell it pretty fuckin' strong here. Maybe I'm just closer geographicly, but I smell it and it's bad.

I'm sorry if the truth doesn't fit into your prejudice. I don't believe I can be more honest or literal than I have.

 

[Guest]

I would really like to answer your questions... but can you answer just one of mine first?

You do understand that the questioning has nothing to do with my religious beliefs, right? You asked if religion could accomplish a number of things. I have shown how it can. That's pretty simple. If you want me to prove to you that my God, specifically, can do things... I don't see how that's relevant to the original point at all. Please enlighten me.



I'm sorry if the truth doesn't fit into your prejudice. I don't believe I can be more honest or literal than I have.

See? That's what I thought. And every theologian I have talked to did the same thing.

When asked what your god can actually DO to improve my life or anyone elses you have no answer except for those things that anyone else could do on their own.

So you dance around the arguement say a whole hell of a lot about not a fucking thing thing but because you used some better words that makes you right.

Sorry, Joe. It don't work that way in the real world.

Now answer the simple fucking question or shut the fuck up.

What can your god DO for me?

 

[stingray61]

Well Joe it's pretty obvious to me, and I'm sure it is to you as well, that when someone can't handle the argument they start to get angry and become bullies, and do exactly what they started accusing you of doing.

I don't think you'll ever get any clarity out of either of them because they appear to be so angry that they themselves can't even see straight.

And so's you know dragon wanna be. If cloud woman had given me a little respect instead of coming in here and rasing hell with me for something she had no clue about then I might have given her a little respect. You on the other hand have an excuse. It's called whipped.
Must be something to all this religious belief if they have stuff plastered all over your town about it. Now tell me how Christians have been brainwashed or are to ignorant to know the truth, so that I can say your calling US lesser people just like you've been doing all along.
Christians don't think of non-christians as lesser people, we think of them as sinners going to hell unless they change their ways just like we did That isn't to say we will try to convert you because a true Christian KNOWS that has to come from your heart. DUH!!! To say we felt they were lesser people is ignorant of Christian beliefs and is the same as saying we think we are lesser people too since ALL of us were at one time or another non-believers just like you. Granted I can't stop all the zealots from coming and knocking on your door or stopping you in the street. Every religion has it's zealots just like yours has you.

And LC it isn't nice to threaten people with physical violence when you don't know a thing about them, or is that what your religion tells you to do?

And don't bother replying because your so closed minded you don't even have a clue what started all this talk to begin with nor what I was trying to do. All you know is you saw someone that didn't believe the way you do and you wanted to crucify them so you could feel better about your pagan religion. Your secret little religion. Oh no heaven forbid any one find out about it cause they would see right through it for what it is. The Bible has stood up to your kind for thousands of years, and will do so for thousands more if people are around that long.

 

[stingray61]

See? That's what I thought. And every theologian I have talked to did the same thing.

When asked what your god can actually DO to improve my life or anyone elses you have no answer except for those things that anyone else could do on their own.

So you dance around the arguement say a whole hell of a lot about not a fucking thing thing but because you used some better words that makes you right.

Sorry, Joe. It don't work that way in the real world.

Now answer the simple fucking question or shut the fuck up.

What can your god DO for me?

LMBO If I were Joe I wouldn't answer your question because you have never answered any of his concerning your religion. Besides you so angry you can't even spell straight so how are you going to be able to think straight?

 

[stingray61]

See? That's what I thought. And every theologian I have talked to did the same thing.

When asked what your god can actually DO to improve my life or anyone elses you have no answer except for those things that anyone else could do on their own.

So you dance around the arguement say a whole hell of a lot about not a fucking thing thing but because you used some better words that makes you right.

Sorry, Joe. It don't work that way in the real world.

Now answer the simple fucking question or shut the fuck up.

What can your god DO for me?

Not sure about his religion but mine can get you to heaven. If you loved your neighbor as yourself like my religion teaches it could also cure alot of that anger you got going, along with a myriad of other things. If you had enough faith and prayed for the right things my religion could cure all sorts of ilnesses but just to cure something so a believer can say "this is what my God can do" is something that's beneath God in the first place. He doesn't have to prove anything to you and neither do I. Truly believing in Him will prove all you need to know. Let us Pray.

NEXT!!!!

 

[Guest]

Well Joe it's pretty obvious to me, and I'm sure it is to you as well, that when someone can't handle the argument they start to get angry and become bullies, and do exactly what they started accusing you of doing.

I don't think you'll ever get any clarity out of either of them because they appear to be so angry that they themselves can't even see straight.

And so's you know dragon wanna be. If cloud woman had given me a little respect instead of coming in here and rasing hell with me for something she had no clue about then I might have given her a little respect. You on the other hand have an excuse. It's called whipped.
Must be something to all this religious belief if they have stuff plastered all over your town about it. Now tell me how Christians have been brainwashed or are to ignorant to know the truth, so that I can say your calling US lesser people just like you've been doing all along.
Christians don't think of non-christians as lesser people, we think of them as sinners going to hell unless they change their ways just like we did That isn't to say we will try to convert you because a true Christian KNOWS that has to come from your heart. DUH!!! To say we felt they were lesser people is ignorant of Christian beliefs and is the same as saying we think we are lesser people too since ALL of us were at one time or another non-believers just like you. Granted I can't stop all the zealots from coming and knocking on your door or stopping you in the street. Every religion has it's zealots just like yours has you.

And LC it isn't nice to threaten people with physical violence when you don't know a thing about them, or is that what your religion tells you to do?

And don't bother replying because your so closed minded you don't even have a clue what started all this talk to begin with nor what I was trying to do. All you know is you saw someone that didn't believe the way you do and you wanted to crucify them so you could feel better about your pagan religion. Your secret little religion. Oh no heaven forbid any one find out about it cause they would see right through it for what it is. The Bible has stood up to your kind for thousands of years, and will do so for thousands more if people are around that long.

Who's being a bully?

I asked him a simple set of questions and he danced around them like a cross between Fred Astaire and a two bit presidential wannabe.

Maybe you can answer the questions then. Now I know this is complicated, so take your time. I'm patient as long as you aren't trying to blow smoke up my ass. Two questions:

What can this "God", in FACT, not in speculation, heresay or conjecture, what can you prove that this "god" can do?

And if there is nothing that you can prove to me that he can do, what right do you have to force your religious views on anyone? What legal grounds can you stand on for knocking on my door and handing me your religious flyers that I did in no way ask for you to deliver?

Two questions. Give me a straight no bullshit answer for either of them and I will humbly admit defeat and sulk out with my tail between my legs.

But if you can't, you have no further arguement.


EDIT: You can throw your childish insults at me all night long dude. Only shows your true nature. And I have seen 8 yr olds who were better at it.

 

[Guest]

LMBO If I were Joe I wouldn't answer your question because you have never answered any of his concerning your religion. Besides you so angry you can't even spell straight so how are you going to be able to think straight?

The discussion isn't about my religion. The discussion is about why he feels it is his right and duty to knock on my door and try to push his religion on me. The discussion is about why christians refuse (allow me to repeat that for dramatic effect) REFUSE to respect the wishes, beliefs or privacy of the non believers.

ANd I'm no where near angry yet. As for my spelling, I kant type so I jus rit on th scren wif craon.

 

[Guest]

Not sure about his religion but mine can get you to heaven. If you loved your neighbor as yourself like my religion teaches it could also cure alot of that anger you got going, along with a myriad of other things. If you had enough faith and prayed for the right things my religion could cure all sorts of ilnesses but just to cure something so a believer can say "this is what my God can do" is something that's beneath God in the first place. He doesn't have to prove anything to you and neither do I. Truly believing in Him will prove all you need to know. Let us Pray.

NEXT!!!!

Prove it.

 

[Guest]

*checking watch, scribbling doodles, drumming fingers on the desk, waiting*

 

[stingray61]

Who's being a bully?

I asked him a simple set of questions and he danced around them like a cross between Fred Astaire and a two bit presidential wannabe.

Maybe you can answer the questions then. Now I know this is complicated, so take your time. I'm patient as long as you aren't trying to blow smoke up my ass. Two questions:

What can this "God", in FACT, not in speculation, heresay or conjecture, what can you prove that this "god" can do?


Well I'd say making the world and everything in it, including you, is pretty much proof. But then you'd say "prove it", and I'd say "The Bible says it's true, and that is the Word of God, and that's my proof because I have faith", and you'd say "I don't believe in the Bible so that isn't proof enough for me". Then I would say, "well that's your loss." Basically nothing I could ever say to a non-believer is going to convince them I am telling the truth, and before you say it NO it isn't because I feel they are lesser than me, it's because until they ARE believers they will block their minds off to the real truth. It's human nature I think.

And if there is nothing that you can prove to me that he can do, what right do you have to force your religious views on anyone? What legal grounds can you stand on for knocking on my door and handing me your religious flyers that I did in no way ask for you to deliver?

First I have never, nor will I ever knock on anyones door, and hand them a flyer or try to convince them to believe as I do. Do you complain about the pizza coupons and other such things that are left on your door that you heven't asked for, and if so did it do any good? Please tell me they never leave anything on your door.
Second, I have never forced my religious beliefs on anyone nor will I ever do that. You think I did that here because you refuse to see that all I did was ask them to not speak negatively about the Bible until they truly understood it. Then of course I had to show them that their views on the Bible were not consistant with what the Bible actually says or means. That doesn't say "you have to believe me or my views, just that they need to get the facts straight first." I'd do the same thing if you tried to tell me the Earth was flat or that the moon was a figment of my imagination. It really has very little to do with my beliefs and more to do with facts.
Did you go to college? If so did you refute your instructors without all the facts in hand? If you did that did you win them over?

Two questions. Give me a straight no bullshit answer for either of them and I will humbly admit defeat and sulk out with my tail between my legs.

But if you can't, you have no further arguement.


Now be so kind as to answer the very same questions about your god. But if you can't, then you also have no further argument.

And by the way I did ask about cloudys religion based on pure curiosity, she refused to believe me and refused to tell me anything about it. If you, and she are pagan that's fine with me but That's no reason to hide your religion away. All I would do is say your wrong but that's no less than you've done to me so far.


EDIT: You can throw your childish insults at me all night long dude. Only shows your true nature. And I have seen 8 yr olds who were better at it.

Yeah you're right it was childish, but when in Rome.....

Now that your being an adult about things, though still a bit of a bully, I will answer you as an adult.

 

[stingray61]

Prove it.

I don't have to prove it any more than you have to prove what your religion can do. But I see what you want so all I can say is if you had faith in God then I wouldn't have to prove anything but since you don't have faith then no matter what I say you won't believe it anyway because the ways of satan are to disagree and cause disencion and strife. Not saying your satan mind you just that you might be being led by him.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I don't have to prove it any more than you have to prove what your religion can do. But I see what you want so all I can say is if you had faith in God then I wouldn't have to prove anything but since you don't have faith then no matter what I say you won't believe it anyway because the ways of satan are to disagree and cause disencion and strife. Not saying your satan mind you just that you might be being led by him.

He does have a point Dranoel.

-Satan

 

[stingray61]

The discussion isn't about my religion. The discussion is about why he feels it is his right and duty to knock on my door and try to push his religion on me. The discussion is about why christians refuse (allow me to repeat that for dramatic effect) REFUSE to respect the wishes, beliefs or privacy of the non believers.


To say that *Christians refuse to respect your beliefs and privacy* denotes ALL Christians, and I know a lot of them that don't do this and never have. You should say SOME Christians so you don't lump all of them together just like your asking us to do with you and other non believers.


ANd I'm no where near angry yet. As for my spelling, I kant type so I jus rit on th scren wif craon.

Actually you were angry, and still might be for all I know.
As for the typing....try getting "Mavis Teaches Typing". That'll help.

 

[Guest]

Yeah you're right it was childish, but when in Rome.....

Now that your being an adult about things, though still a bit of a bully, I will answer you as an adult.

There in lies the rub.

You see I have never made claim that my god (I don't have one) or my religion (I don't have one) could do anything for anyone. But then I'm not trying to rub peoples noses in it either.

The point I have been arguing with joe about(since he DOES feel it is his right to rub my, and aeveryone elses nose in his religion) is what gives him the right to.

But he seems to be unnder the understanding that just because he believes it he has every right to use whatever means to try and convert me whether I want it or not.

Now if you can prove to me that your product has a viable benifit to me I'll be happy to lend you my ear. But I don't want to here that a 1600 year old book by primative screwheads is your only proof.

If you can show me hard evidence that your god exists and can provide a real and useful benifit to the people of this earth then I will say you have a right to tell anyone you want to. Provided they asked you for the information first.

If not, stop pounding on my door and leaving flyers under my windshield wipers.