afairs with married men?

[overthebow]

often, the root cause of an affair is lack of communication within the marriage, and yes, it does take something as simple as that!

one person CAN poison the relationship through baggage.... but don't you think the other person within that relationship should be aware of the baggage and any potential problems it may cause when entering into a marriage?
and how do they become aware - through communication.
it's not good enough to say afterwards "oh, but he/she had a problem when i married him/her, so it's not my fault!"

ignorance does not equal blamelessness.

Yes, both people in the marriage can contribute to the problems, but it could be just one person who screws it up. The flow of the thread stated that it was BOTH people and I objected to that. I know of marital breakups where both people contributed to the problems. I also know of divorces where one person was saying one thing and doing another and blindsided the partner by blowing out of the marriage instead of taking responsiblity for what was going on. It only takes one essentially dishonest person in a marriage to poison it.

John Gray, the guy who writes those "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" books said in one of them that when a couple comes in to see him for counselling and the woman complains that the man is not in touch with his feelings, it is his experience that it opposite is always true: that the woman is not in touch with her feelings and instead of confronting them, tries to manage her partner's feelings. The conflict arises when he stonewalls and to get her to not manage his feelings and she is shutout. In that scenario, the woman would say that there was a lack of communication and that the man was not in touch with his feelings. And outside, hopefully objective, observer would have a different view of things.

The flow of this thread was toward subjective observation and I wanted to stem that and show that there was an objective position.

 

[warrior queen]

John Gray, the guy who writes those "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" books said in one of them that when a couple comes in to see him for counselling and the woman complains that the man is not in touch with his feelings, it is his experience that it opposite is always true: that the woman is not in touch with her feelings and instead of confronting them, tries to manage her partner's feelings. The conflict arises when he stonewalls and to get her to not manage his feelings and she is shutout. In that scenario, the woman would say that there was a lack of communication and that the man was not in touch with his feelings. And outside, hopefully objective, observer would have a different view of things.

i've read john gray's books, and i did not like them.
they focus too much on the differences between men and women, and not enough on the similarities.
'men are from mars, women are from venus'?

i prefer -
men are from earth, women are from earth... deal with it.

 

[Mrs Peel]

First, it takes a bad marriage for the conditions to be favorable for an affair.

I'm not sure I agree. One man I "knew" was a CEO who lived in another city and traveled all the time. Another was a musician who lived in another country and was always on tour. I've spent enough time traveling on business alone to understand why a prostitute might make some money if she hung around a hotel bar...there were certainly nights I wished I could phone the concierge and ask him to send something studly upstairs.

Does the "bad marriage" create the condition? Does the condition create the "bad marriage"? Is the marriage bad, or is the road simply a lonely place sometimes?

And, speaking of prostitutes, does that count as an affair? Does a one night stand? Somehow, it seems as if this discussion has defined "affair" as a serious, deeply held, long term involvement. In my opinion, "one night stands" count, prostitutes count, and Clinton's interaction with Monica counts too.

 

[Arden]

I have a ? for the ladies, what are your thoughts on having an afair with a married man,would you ever have an afair with a married man and if not would there be anything that would make you concider an afair with a married man?

Married men aren't for me. I'm too old for game playing, and most married men in my age group (45-50) seldom leave their spouses for another. And then there's the issue of trust. If he's fooling around on his wife without her knowing about it, he'd probably do the same to others.

Open relationships, with consent by both partners, is another matter. But then it wouldn't qualify as an affair, would it?

I'm selfish... I want a man of my own.

 

[_Milky_Whites_]

Well...I've never been with a married man. Not YET. I did have a strong interest in one once, a man that I worked with. We flirted and hinted, but the opportunity never came up. If it had, I may have taken it. At one time I thought that women who fooled with married men where horrible. Now I see things a little differently. See, I am married myself. Its a rough marriage, more bad than good. So if I were to have an affair I think I prefer that he be married. No strings attached, no strong emotions, not as much risk. Just 2 ppl satisfying a need that otherwise isn't being met.

In short, no, I've not slept with a married man. But I wouldn't really hesitate just because he was married.

 

[overthebow]

i've read john gray's books, and i did not like them.
they focus too much on the differences between men and women, and not enough on the similarities.
'men are from mars, women are from venus'?

i prefer -
men are from earth, women are from earth... deal with it.

While men and women are similar, it is the differences that define and delineate us.

 

[BigM]

I tend to agree with Mrs. Peel.

A lot of writers in this thread have speculated why a husband would have an affair -- because he's in a bad marriage, or he and his wife don't communicate.

From what I've seen, many guys in a perfectly fine marriage will jump at an opportunity that comes walking by -- if she's hot enough. For them it's not about trust or commitment or anything so deep. It's about getting a good lay, and it often has nothing to do their wives or the health of their marriage.

Afterall, most of us guys aren't all that deep. I suspect my dog is more mysterious than I am.

 

[overthebow]

A lot of writers in this thread have speculated why a husband would have an affair -- because he's in a bad marriage, or he and his wife don't communicate.

It isn't just the husbands who are having affairs. To focus the discussion on men in marriages is unreasonable. Many wives have affairs and it ends up breaking up families. See "The Good Divorce" by Constance Ahrons for a good discussion on the "leaver" and the "left".

 

[wildthang]

.... In my opinion, "one night stands" count, prostitutes count, and Clinton's interaction with Monica counts too.

BOOOOOO!

Hillary is a prude bitch, he had to get head somewhere! Besides, if I wasnt willing to do something sexual (ya right) I dont think it would bother me if my SO found someone who would take care of that one need for him as long as she (or he ) is clean and knows there wont be anything other then that.


Sorry LOL I'm a Bill fan.

 

[warrior queen]

While men and women are similar, it is the differences that define and delineate us.

correct.
but i emphasise the word 'delineate', because it's precisely that, that causes the problems.
men and women tend to draw a line 'this is how you behave, and this is how i behave, because this is just how it is.'

and that allows people (be they m or f) to excuse themselves from behaviours that are unacceptable.

it's a cop-out, pure and simple.

 

[overthebow]

correct.
but i emphasise the word 'delineate', because it's precisely that, that causes the problems.
men and women tend to draw a line 'this is how you behave, and this is how i behave, because this is just how it is.'

and that allows people (be they m or f) to excuse themselves from behaviours that are unacceptable.

it's a cop-out, pure and simple.

I have no idea where you are coming from. This sub-thread started with a reference to the books of John Gray. There is nothing in those books or in anything that I have posted that agrees with you. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. If you are saying that people find excuses for abhorent personal behaviour, I would agree with that. The fact that one of those excuses is that men and women are different does not invalidate the study of differences as a way of understanding human behaviour. These things are orthogonal.

 

[Mrs Peel]

many guys in a perfectly fine marriage will jump at an opportunity that comes walking by -- if she's hot enough.

Given the context, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[RestrainedRage]

Interesting thread. And it's great to see multiple, honest opions.

As for myself, I am a married man who loves his wife and his life. I have no intention of giving up either. However (I can hear the "ahhhh's" now), my wife has lost interest in sex. Before we wed, we has sex 3, 4 or more times a day. Not only active but passionate and varied. And we dated for years.

Within weeks of the wedding, everything changed. First, the frequency, dropping to maybe 5 or 6 times a week! Then, she stopped having anal and then oral sex. Now, years later, she considers us very active if we have sex once per week, with the norm of maybe every 10-12 days. She does go down on me occassionally but I feel that she only does so in order to "get it over with" and that only about 2 times per week.

She ignores my touches when I attempt foreplay and rolls over and goes to sleep if I masturbate beside her.

So the point of all this is, yes, it has crossed my mind to find a "fuck buddy". I say "fuck buddy" and not "affair" b/c most affairs involve entangling emotions. Emotions can be involved, but of the strictly friendship variety. From the onset, there would have to be understanding of no strings and that I have no intention of leaving my wife.

RR

 

[overthebow]

She ignores my touches when I attempt foreplay and rolls over and goes to sleep if I masturbate beside her.

How does she view her father? I was married twice, both times to women who had difficult relationships with their fathers and this was the pattern: sex like doped up rabbits before marriage, nothing afterwards. I am with a woman now who wants my cock in her body. It has only been a few weeks, so it could change, but neither of the women to whom I was married was ever this way. My lover liked her late father. I don't know if there is any correlation since it is one data point.

Is it possible not to have married sex? Married sex is when you crawl into bed at night after a long day and look at each other more in dread than anticipation. Can you have single sex? Single sex is when you are in the basement and you start making out and then just fuck right there, standing up. Or lying down, or out in the car in the garage.

Check out the Love Bank. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html
It could be that you need to make more deposits into the love bank.

 

[RestrainedRage]

How does she view her father? I was married twice, both times to women who had difficult relationships with their fathers and this was the pattern: sex like doped up rabbits before marriage, nothing afterwards. I am with a woman now who wants my cock in her body. It has only been a few weeks, so it could change, but neither of the women to whom I was married was ever this way. My lover liked her late father. I don't know if there is any correlation since it is one data point.
~snip~

To her, her father is the greatest man alive. I must admit that I am partial to him, myself. He is a good guy and a great sense of humor. Not sure how that would account for fanatical sex for years then cliff diving to nothing.

RR

 

[mystic_maiden32]

I couldn't do it. I watched my father cheat on my mother-then marry the woman he was cheating on her with. I am nnot putting anyone down that has or is having an affair with a married man. But the actions affect more than just the wife.

 

[heavynole]

to RestrainedRage: if your sex life dropped off like that something is wrong...now with women it could be many many things but something is wrong you may want to discuss with her why she has lost intrest...though you probably have already...

i was just talking to my wife whom i love dearly about cheating on her. she says if i do she better be pretty because if shes ugly then she is going to be doubly mad. lol I told the only way i would cheat is if she is drop dead sexy and dumb as a board as i lack the drive to maintain a affair, just way to much work and thinking lol

 

[Guest]

My wife and are swingers and have an open marriage. We're seeing a couple right now, but both of us see other people as well. Its worked really well for us. With our crazy work schedules and everything, we sometimes don't get to see each other as much, and doing things this way still allows our needs to be met with no jealousy.

 

[intrigued]

Where's the poll??

I've said enough on this subject, but just in case you missed it, no*ugh*runlikehell*findyourowntoy*stopswipingmen*thesethinghsripapartlives*nonono!

 

[intrigued]

Interesting thread. And it's great to see multiple, honest opions.

As for myself, I am a married man who loves his wife and his life. I have no intention of giving up either. However (I can hear the "ahhhh's" now), my wife has lost interest in sex. Before we wed, we has sex 3, 4 or more times a day. Not only active but passionate and varied. And we dated for years.

Within weeks of the wedding, everything changed. First, the frequency, dropping to maybe 5 or 6 times a week! Then, she stopped having anal and then oral sex. Now, years later, she considers us very active if we have sex once per week, with the norm of maybe every 10-12 days. She does go down on me occassionally but I feel that she only does so in order to "get it over with" and that only about 2 times per week.

She ignores my touches when I attempt foreplay and rolls over and goes to sleep if I masturbate beside her.

So the point of all this is, yes, it has crossed my mind to find a "fuck buddy". I say "fuck buddy" and not "affair" b/c most affairs involve entangling emotions. Emotions can be involved, but of the strictly friendship variety. From the onset, there would have to be understanding of no strings and that I have no intention of leaving my wife.

RR

I understand how you feel and to you, there are underlying emotions/issues tying into this--as there usually are---but in the end, I think you still have it pretty good. Change it if you can, but no matter what, go on loving your wife with every ounce of passion in you.

 

[onlythesexy1]

Hi. I'm a newbie here and it just so happens this is the first thread to catch my eye...Mainly because I've been there....When I say I've been there I mean I've been the mistress and the wife. It's easy to say yeah I'd do a married man, but when you become the wife that's being cheated on that opinion can waiver. When my husband cheated it wasn't becuz we were having problems it was becuz the oppurtunity presented itself....Which I find ironic becuz it's exactly the same reason why my married lover pursued our affair. So now when asked if I would do it again or not.. The answer is: no. Becuz as some1 else stated it doesn't just affect the 2 parties involved. Affairs affect families..Even small flings here and there affect the amount of affection and effort a man will put into his marriage. I think that it does take 2 to tango but when the music stops, someone is ALWAYS left without a partner to dance with.....

 

[curious2c]

Some here may know my background with my wife. In any event, I'm married and have been so for over twenty four years. My wife's sex drive went to zero several years ago...and for the last two years sex for me has been left or right hand. At one point in our marriage, about a year into it, she had a night where she stepped out on us...I say us, because it effected both of us, and it was a one time thing...okay, two times but the second was more blackmailing on his part. Long story...anyway...we managed to stay together and I never thought that I could stray, since I knew exactly what the pain of discovery felt like. Also, I could only imagine loving my wife in the way that I did.

Then...one day at work I found out that it is possible to love someone else as much as you do your wife, and not only that, but it is real easy to stray, whether alcohol is involved or not. I stayed true...but it was not easy by any means. At one point we even had arranged a date...but things came up not related to spouses...she was married also...but of all things, work called me in on an emergency.

After that night I had some time to think about things and came the the conclusion that were I to cheat I might as well ask for the divorce now...it would be far less painful to my wife than finding out about me sleeping with someone else.

However, a year ago my wife told me she was amazed that I stuck with her considering her sex drive was gone now. She thought I would leave her due to it. I had thought about that...but my love for her runs very deep...and the marriage vows did say in sickness and in health...etc.

During this conversation she told me she would understand if I went out and found other means to relieve my pent up sexual stress...and she would'nt hold it against me either. The thing is...knowing how I felt way back when, and how I found out about her daliences...I couldn't do that to her, regardless of what she told me. *sigh*

Anyway, my experience has been that married people tend to want to have affairs with married people simply because of the attachment thing spoken about above...no attachments, no expectation other than hot sex...perhaps fuck buddies would be the best way to describe such a relationship, since it is a relationship of intimate porportions for sure.

In my case...my heart leads me more than my mind at times...which for my wife and I...well it is kept us together all this time...so far.

 

[overthebow]

Some here may know my background with my wife. In any event, I'm married and have been so for over twenty four years. My wife's sex drive went to zero several years ago...and for the last two years sex for me has been left or right hand.

Hey brother, my heart goes out to you. I'm hoping you can work it out. I don't know if you have read it, but "Passionate Marriage" by David Schnarch is a good read.

Have you tried have "single sex"? Single sex is that you have sex where and when you are, not just at night, in bed. Her sex drive may be zero, but that may reflect more how she sees herself. I don't know if you have kids, but how about nailing her in the kitchen some time? Or maybe in a parking garage? Or in the backyard, under the stars?

 

[Spenser41]

ok

I am going to say something here. Didn't think I would. I have told this before on other posts but since others are posting ...

I married a woman who had been married before. She was divorced because she had cheated on her husband and he caught her. She was sorry about it but he was gone all the time for work and she never saw him and did it because she was lonely. It was not even the sex for her as much as it was to have someone to hold her. (her words)

We got married and shortly after the marriage... about 4 months into it, the sex just about died. I could not understand. I thought newly wedded people fucked like rabbits. Well if this was the case.. my rabbit died.

This went on for about 2 yrs and I was very close to giving up. I worked in retail and this woman used to come in my store all the time and flirt with me. Well one thing lead to another and this went on for months... I went to her place to take a delivery and well.. you know the rest. I felt horrible after it and thought... great what have I done? My wife could see something was wrong and I broke down and told her. I know why did I do that? Because I had never done that before and I felt so damn guilty. She was ok with it and said she was sorry to have pushed me away and we would try to make things better. Well that worked for about 6 yrs and then the well went dry again.
This time I was not going to do anything like cheat. I just toughed it out. Maybe it would pass. After almost a year of no sex, ( and yes I begged, asked, pleaded... did everything I could think of. Flowers, dinners, bubble baths, massages and no sex.) She would maybe help me from time to time but most of the time I was on my own. I heard all of the excuses... I am too tired, the kids, the house, this thing that thing... I heard it all.
Just could never find out what was going on. Then I began to think... is it me? or is it someone else? I looked around and could see she was not seeing anyone... just did not want sex.
So, I figured the only way I am going to get any is to take care of it myself. So I did....the books, mags, movies. ANything... at least I was not cheating with someone. Well she found them and she got mad and said I was a pervert. I said... I am not cheating and I do everything I can for you and to romance you and all you do is push me away. She said I am sorry I just do not have a strong sex drive... and you do. You want it all the time and I don't. I sad we have not had sex in over a year! How the hell is that a strong drive? She said well that is not true I have helped you. I said I mean intercourse. She was well I just am not interested when you are. As you can tell this was going no where.
So, I tried to clean up my act and stop doing it at home. So instead I went to the adult store with the peep shows. Yea I know not the best or cleanest place but at least was not doing it at home where she would get pissed about it.
This went on for 15 yrs. Yes you heard me right... 15 yrs.
And she was happy if I never touched her again. She would even go to sleep on the couch or a chair to avoid me touching her.
And all this time... I thought there was something wrong with me.
That I was ugly, or a horrible lover or not worth loving. The rejection she gave me was unbelieveable. ( the reason why this hurt so bad was because my father rejected me and mom was married many many times and all rejected me so to be rejected by your wife was the biggest pain of all) By the way... this ends ok and I went through counseling and I am better... but I am getting somewhere with this.
A few years later, I had a scare with my heart and was forced to look at my life and I hated it. The only good thing were my kids but the rest of my life sucked and I wanted it to change. I talked to my wife and said look, I am sick of this and I want us to have a real marriage and I want intimacy. She looked right at me and she said... I have no desire for you, I never did. You do nothing for me. Well you could have just shot me in the heart and it would have done the same thing. I said why did you marry me? She said I have no idea. I was numb from her words and left and drove around and cried for ... seems like all night.
I had discovered AOL a couple of years back and had some friends that I chatted with. I went to the office and got on line and was talking to all of my friends about this. One of them lived in my area. A woman who was a very caring and sweet lady. She tried to get me to come over and talk to her. I didn't then but a few days later I did. All we did was talk.
We got closer and I found it easy to open up to her. And as you can guess ... we had an affair. Now she was a divorced woman and had kids but she also had other men she was seeing. I was just a friend with benifits. Problem was I feel in love.
I demanded a divorce but wife did not want it - she did not work - I did and she was looking at how can I make it? So she said I will work on the marriage. And the other woman feel in love with someone else so that ended. I stayed but my heart was not in it and I knew she wanted me to stay not for love but for survival.
It of cource did not work as yes we had sex but it faded just as fast as it came back and it just like before it was push away time and I said this is stupid. So I moved out and demanded the divorce. She fought me on it until she got a great deal... and then she was ok with the divorce. So I got little but did not care and moved on. She came back later and said the reason I did not care for you or wanted you is because you reminded me of my sexual abuse that I got from family members.
I said why didn't you tell me this? She said I didn't think it was a problem and did not affect me? I said how could you say that... it affected the entire marriage. She said... I just saw you as a pervert like the rest of the men in my life.
So... I am saying this because there are a lot of women in this world who sad to say have been sexually abused and some by their family members. When there is a wife who is pushing the husband away and does not care about sex or thinks he is a pervert for wanting it... you have some serious issues going on.
Me? I had too much baggage from my past with my dad and many step dads to see why I was reacting the way I was... but I have now dealt with that.
But I would say that if your wife is pushing you away, there are some very strong reasons why and it rarely has to do with you.

So yes I was married, yes I did cheat, and yes.. I forgot to say this... I did go to massage places and get handjobs.. nothing else more... was too bothered to go back down that road again.
So I guess put me down as a cheater in all counts.

But it is very very hard to say whos fautl it is and who caused the marriage to break up. Each marriage is different and each person is too and there is more here then just the husband and wife.. there is also family history and abuse and all kinds of other things.

I think it comes down to... do what you feel you and your partner can live with. If you can have an open marriage then ok.. cool. If you can't but can do the affair thing... ok...
And it is not just MEN doing this. According to the lastest information 30% of married women are having affairs, 20% are thinking about it.

 

[sheath]

Re: ok

I am going to say something here. Didn't think I would. I have told this before on other posts but since others are posting ...

I haven't posted much to this thread in the last few days, because on one hand I'm trying to get points of my argument in order...on the other hand, I don't really have the time or energy to get knee-deep in debate on a subject I have debated countless times before.

But I did want to post and say this: Spenser, you are an absolutely wonderful man. You have a heart of gold. This post is more than enough to prove that not all 'cheaters' come from the 'homewrecker' mold...the stereotype of 'I don't give a damn, I just want what I want homewrecker' is a very common one, unfortunately.

Thank you for proving that stereotype wrong on all counts.

S.