An open discussion on "cheating"

[MWG]

I think monogamy is highly over-rated and obvioiusly hard to maintain. I think marriage is an old, out-dated device to keep women under control. I think if you find a mate and can both stay 'faithful' happily - more power to you. But its obvious that's not the way the majority of 'pairings' end up. Why set yourself up for defeat? Why not just be prepared to either a). leave when its obviously over. or b). accept the inevitable and deal with it. I truly think if couples looked hard at what marriage is asking of them and accept the probability of unfaithfulness they would be less likely to stray in the first place, and more apt to forgive should it happen.

God, ain't that the truth. I've cheated on my fiance once, while at a party... that thrill of being chased was there and I'd forgotten how much I missed it. I couldn't say no. And it got to me because I had been such an "inside-the-box" thinker when it came to marriage and monogamy and such- but then I got to thinking, Well, who the hell decided how a relationship SHOULD be? What in the world says that any relationship (that isn't legally established) HAD to be just one guy, one girl?

Since then, my fiance and I have talked about an open marriage. He just can't get himself past thinking of me with other guys (he was raised by a "nice" family and is himself a "nice" guy, although I've kinked him up considerably); however, he's well aware that I'm bisexual so he's agreed to let me have other women. I want to experiment with him as much as possible, perhaps see if he's open to being with other women. If that works out, then it might be a platform to reopen negotiations on my having other men. I have found that this is just absolutely mindblowing to my fiance- he's doing it mainly because he wants me to have whatever I need to be happy, and we're compromising as much as possible- because monogamy has always been, in his mind, the way things are SUPPOSED to work.

 

[CoolidgEffect]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

Which brings up an interesting point/hijack... how does our spiritual belief system influence how we feel about physical infidelity?

Do Christians have more rigidly defined 'rules of engagement'? Are they more or less likely to forgive 'sins of the flesh'?

Yeah, the wife owns his cock and the husband her cooter. And don't mess around with it.

1 Corinthians 7


Marriage

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.[1] 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

 

[Jimi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

Which brings up an interesting point/hijack... how does our spiritual belief system influence how we feel about physical infidelity?

Do Christians have more rigidly defined 'rules of engagement'? Are they more or less likely to forgive 'sins of the flesh'?

Gawd, PCG! I Always love talking to you!

Belief system may be diff. but similar morality!


AND, That is the point, IMHO. Individuals are contained within the several Faiths - those same individual will differ with co-religionists issue-specifically and AGREE with "supposed" enemies of their faiths on others.

So, Christians understand well the concept of physical adultery, but may also agree that breach of OTHER trusts is equally detrimental to a marriage or "pair-bond.

Forgiveness is another matter entirely. If there is genuine regret at transgression of trust rules - and that trust is restored - then forgiveness is likely also.

As far away from Fundamentalism in ANY dogma we get, as closer it is possible to get "past" the rhetoric and verbiage to REAL communication.

In the end, the BETTER the communication and value-sharing between a pair - LESS likely a breakdown and "breach of Trust".

That's my look at it, quickly, anyway, for what it is worth.

Jim

 

[Hamletmaschine]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

Which brings up an interesting point/hijack... how does our spiritual belief system influence how we feel about physical infidelity?

Do Christians have more rigidly defined 'rules of engagement'? Are they more or less likely to forgive 'sins of the flesh'?

I'm pretty sure that "thou shalt not fuck around" commandment was meant to be unambiguous...no loopholes, no fudge factors. But, near as I can tell, those biblical fuckers fucked anything that moved. Go figure.

 

[Jimi]

No kidding, Eh?

I often find myself nodding my head in agreement to most of the things I see you saying on the boards.

Yes, Kitters, I concur - commonsense and humanity seem to come from her very fingertips!

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

1 Corinthians 7

it is better to marry than to burn with passion

Heh. Proof that marriage and burning passion are mutually exclusive?

Yes, Kitters, I concur - commonsense and humanity seem to come from her very fingertips!

 

[crazybbwgirl]

Re: No arguments - BUT!

This Is ALL rhetorical and/or hypothetical...
My partner says a lot of things are wrong - cool. So why does my partner not partipate fully in the "relationship"... My Lit. time is inversely proportional to how good my RL is going.
I'm in a situation now where I'm damned if I do (cheat) - because I'd be "on my own" so fast, my head would spin off.

Damned if I don't because the sharing of the bed for more than sleeping just is NOT there. What is a guy with a conscience to do?
We all know what cheating is. The only issue is how far we allow ourselves to succumb to its attractions

Its not so bad 'being on your own'. Why let your life slip away in an unhappy marriage? THAT'S the part of cheating I just don't understand. There are an aweful lot of people out there putting up with either cheating spouses or unsexual spouses. Why?

 

[CoolidgEffect]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

Heh. Proof that marriage and burning passion are mutually exclusive?

I bet he figures you can't just spill your seed like Onan and get away with it. So you need to get married to properly deposit it.

 

[Bobmi357]

Cheating is a highly subjective concept. Long before any marriage occurs both people should have settled on what kind of marriage its going to be and what is or isn't acceptable. To blindly enter marriage using the traditional vows without considering their meaning is silly.

I expect my wife to remain faithful to me, and she's told me in no uncertain terms exactly where my balls would end up if I strayed from the path of fidelity also. It works for us, but thats us, not every one fits into that category.

My wife and I have varying ideas about what is cheating. I refuse to cyber with anyone, but I will flirt occasionally. I tend to think of cybering as a first step on the road to being unfaithful whereas she says if it gets her horny and then she comes to me to get.... ahem, relief, then theres no harm in it. I know another woman that complains her husband ignores her, then bitches and complains when he surfs porn sites. She considers that cheating.

I think that when you boil it all down, you could distill the issue down to a simple "If I do X, will it hurt my partner's feelings?". Because that, in my mind, is really cheating, willingly doing something that you know will hurt your partner should they ever find out about it.

I don't buy the concept that a lot of men pull out. "OH well she doesn't put out so I have to look for it elsewhere..." . If you're having that kind of problem in your marriage, you should either be trying to talk it over with your partner, or seeking a divorce. Staying married for the sake of kids isn't doing the kids any favors. I've been there, done that, got the T shirt to prove it.

 

[Effigy]

I do believe in that depositing system

 

[intrigued]

Cheating is a highly subjective concept. Long before any marriage occurs both people should have settled on what kind of marriage its going to be and what is or isn't acceptable. To blindly enter marriage using the traditional vows without considering their meaning is silly.

I expect my wife to remain faithful to me, and she's told me in no uncertain terms exactly where my balls would end up if I strayed from the path of fidelity also. It works for us, but thats us, not every one fits into that category.

My wife and I have varying ideas about what is cheating. I refuse to cyber with anyone, but I will flirt occasionally. I tend to think of cybering as a first step on the road to being unfaithful whereas she says if it gets her horny and then she comes to me to get.... ahem, relief, then theres no harm in it. I know another woman that complains her husband ignores her, then bitches and complains when he surfs porn sites. She considers that cheating.

I think that when you boil it all down, you could distill the issue down to a simple "If I do X, will it hurt my partner's feelings?". Because that, in my mind, is really cheating, willingly doing something that you know will hurt your partner should they ever find out about it.

I don't buy the concept that a lot of men pull out. "OH well she doesn't put out so I have to look for it elsewhere..." . If you're having that kind of problem in your marriage, you should either be trying to talk it over with your partner, or seeking a divorce. Staying married for the sake of kids isn't doing the kids any favors. I've been there, done that, got the T shirt to prove it.

Amen to your last paragraph!

For me, in no way does a third or fourth party (or an orgyfest) entering the picture do anything good, ever. If you want to play, kick them to the curb and THEN play til the cows come home.

What on earth does committment mean?

If your partner is no longer making love with you, or your relationship is no longer satisfactory, you either decide to honor your committment and vows, or you don't. If you opt to NOT, then atleast end the relationship with your partner FIRST.

When you take some part of your relationship with your partner and allow another into it, then you have cheated your partner of something that belongs to them.
When you give anything to another that you normally would give to your partner, you are cheating them.
When you are being dishonest with your partner, you are cheating them.

Since its so subjective, whats important is agreeing with our partner. I'm just spouting off because its a road I've walked so damn many times, I could go it blindfolded.

One more thing, why do people have these open relationships that allow all sorts of intimacy, yet desiginate only one partner as THE PARTNER?

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I truly don't know how you married people do it! So many rules, so many ways to screw up, so many opportunities for pain. ouch ouch ouch.......

 

[intrigued]

I truly don't know how you married people do it! So many rules, so many ways to screw up, so many opportunities for pain. ouch ouch ouch.......

Well, I'm not married, but as committed as a body can be, to ONE man. I'm not in pain, I'm thriving.

 

[MissTaken]

If unfaithfulness is defined as a breaking of the marriage vows, then there are A LOT more ways to be 'unfaithful' than simply fucking someone else.

Oh yes!

And in a fashion, that is where I was going with this post when I used it earlier.

I also believe that if someone has moved to physically cheating on their SO, chances are that they and perhaps the SO have been "unfaithful" in other respects. Vow that may have been broken may simply have been the promise to love and cherish....

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

Its not so bad 'being on your own'. Why let your life slip away in an unhappy marriage? THAT'S the part of cheating I just don't understand. There are an aweful lot of people out there putting up with either cheating spouses or unsexual spouses. Why?

Umm perhaps because there is more to marriage and love than sex?

And yes, also for all the reasons you gave, but "putting up with" implies a judgement that may or may not be true for each situation.

When a relationship boils down to having such a heavy focus on sex as we often hear, "She isn't putting out so I will risk all the good stuff to get lucky"...I don't believe it is all about sex. There are other bigger problems that the Two need to work out.

Slowly, carefully, honestly and with empathy for one another.

 

[Lancecastor]

Because there are a lot of attached people on Lit hiding their activities here from their partners, we can expect all the usual lame-assed justifications for their behavior, no matter how many times MissT does a new version of this thread.

Most people know right from wrong, but it's still fun to watch the semantic gymnastics people perform to coat their guilt over what they know in their heart is ...cheating.

 

[MissTaken]

Because there are a lot of attached people on Lit hiding their activities here from their partners, we can expect all the usual lame-assed justifications for their behavior, no matter how many times MissT does a new version of this thread.

Most people know right from wrong, but it's still fun to watch the semantic gymnastics people perform to coat their guilt over what they know in their heart is ...cheating.

Actually, Lance,

I originally posted the initial post on a chat group I belong to. There, there were many who were coming up with some pretty transparent justifications for sex outside the relationship without the consent of their partner.

So, I took it to the dictionary as if to say, "the answers are sometimes simply a quick click to the online dictionary."

Needless to say, there was a lot of sarcasm thrown my way. "Boy! She knows how to use a dictionary!"

Avoidance.
Yep.

 

[Lancecastor]

Avoidance.
Yep.

I haven't read this thread, but I'd wager there are more than a few sentences with the words *my definition of *....

 

[gravyrug]

Amen to your last paragraph!

One more thing, why do people have these open relationships that allow all sorts of intimacy, yet desiginate only one partner as THE PARTNER?

Because the Partner (with the capital P) is the one you come home to. In my case, she's the one I'll be with when all the others go away. Anything outside the partnership is strictly playtime, a time to try something different, a time to sort of "cleanse the palate" if you will. While it definitely won't work for everybody, for us it helps make our time together more exciting. I've found that she's usually a lot more interested in me after she's found a new boyfriend. Don't know why, but it works. And that's the point, it's what works for us.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I haven't read this thread

I seriously doubt anyone is surprised.

 

[Lancecastor]

If unfaithfulness is defined as a breaking of the marriage vows, then there are A LOT more ways to be 'unfaithful' than simply fucking someone else.

Guess I was right.

 

[Calamity Jane]

No, you weren't. Though I can see how that would be hard for you to decipher. Where in that statement did I say "My Definition"?

 

[Lancecastor]

No, you weren't. Though I can see how that would be hard for you to decipher. Where in that statement did I say "My Definition"?

No need to get twitchy with me...you're the one with the elastic sense of infidelity...I pointed out the certainty of semantic gymnasts in this thread and who popped up? (you)

 

[Calamity Jane]

Darlin, you haven't seen me twitch yet.

I can see how an elastic sense of what constitutes infidelity would threaten your need for rigid control. It's ok.

 

[Lancecastor]

I can see how an elastic sense of what constitutes infidelity would threaten your need for rigid control. It's ok.

If you view your fidelity as rigid control by another that might explain your defensive posture.