An open discussion on "cheating"

[crazybbwgirl]

Re: Re: Re: No arguments - BUT!

Umm perhaps because there is more to marriage and love than sex?
And yes, also for all the reasons you gave, but "putting up with" implies a judgement that may or may not be true for each situation.
When a relationship boils down to having such a heavy focus on sex as we often hear, "She isn't putting out so I will risk all the good stuff to get lucky"...I don't believe it is all about sex. There are other bigger problems that the Two need to work out.
Slowly, carefully, honestly and with empathy for one another.

Miss T I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately the rest of the married world doesn't. I'm not married. I don't even really get a say in this thread because of that. All I'm saying is the stats show that more than 70% of married people stray. That's pretty high! Everyone thinks when they first get married that won't happen to them. I just think that monogamy is highly overrated and very ever attained. That's all........ at least 30% of those who don't agree with me will be right......

 

[gravyrug]

If you view your fidelity as rigid control by another that might explain your defensive posture.

I think "Judge not lest ye be judged" might be appropriate here.

It can't count as cheating if you're following the rules. The only question is which rules are you following?

 

[Lancecastor]

The only question is which rules are you following?

The latin root of fidelity means "truth".

I'm unaware of there being more than one brand of truth.

 

[Lancecastor]

(that seems to have quieted things a bit...)

 

[gravyrug]

The latin root of fidelity means "truth".

I'm unaware of there being more than one brand of truth.

Well, let's see, there is objective truth, where the only thing that matters is documentable fact. There is subjective truth, where the emphasis is on how those involved react to situations. There is dogmatic truth, where everything is compared to a certain set of rules.

Which one do you prefer?

 

[gravyrug]

Okay, now it's really quiet...

 

[curious2c]

Bottom line...If both partners in a relationship decide to have it be open and sharing then no cheating takes place. If only one partner is having relations on the side without the other partner knowing...that is cheating.

Adultery? Mostly a religious morality and I am not sure exactly when it was decided that a man could only have one partner...For the most part I believe that if the partners in the relationship agree to share or be open in that relationship then no adultery takes place either. (I know the definition says differently...I am comparing adultery with cheating...probably illogicly too Oh well!)

 

[gravyrug]

Bottom line...If both partners in a relationship decide to have it be open and sharing then no cheating takes place. If only one partner is having relations on the side without the other partner knowing...that is cheating.

Adultery? Mostly a religious morality and I am not sure exactly when it was decided that a man could only have one partner...For the most part I believe that if the partners in the relationship agree to share or be open in that relationship then no adultery takes place either. (I know the definition says differently...I am comparing adultery with cheating...probably illogicly too Oh well!)

No problem with your logic. I think the definitions are in need of a tune-up. By the definitions, it is possible to commit adultery without cheating.

 

[curious2c]

No problem with your logic. I think the definitions are in need of a tune-up. By the definitions, it is possible to commit adultery without cheating.

Ah yes...by the definitions you can't cheat without commiting adultery either.

 

[intrigued]

Because the Partner (with the capital P) is the one you come home to. In my case, she's the one I'll be with when all the others go away. Anything outside the partnership is strictly playtime, a time to try something different, a time to sort of "cleanse the palate" if you will. While it definitely won't work for everybody, for us it helps make our time together more exciting. I've found that she's usually a lot more interested in me after she's found a new boyfriend. Don't know why, but it works. And that's the point, it's what works for us.

You're exactly right, it doesn't work for everybody. If it works for you, so be it.
But on that note, when I want to understand something, I'm pretty blunt. I've asked this question to many people that I met on the internet, and never once have they answered in a positive light. The question I've posed to those that have open relationships, and I mean open as in being physically intimate with more than one person, is "in the end, did it work out the way you'd hoped?" and they often came back with "it tore my life apart." They discovered that the more they opened the door, the more their partner walked through it, and away from them...right out of their lives.
Granted, this is no real representation, its only the people I talked with. And granted, you can't hold a person to you with boundaries and rules. But in the right relationship, you don't need them. You don't even see it as being held in place by boundaries and rules, you give it up freely, you desire it.
For me, if I have to keep filling in the holes with something outside the two of us, its not a good match.

My partner and I have wide open minds, mine a good bit more so than his. We expose ourselves to ideas, not interactions with other people. We take those ideas, be it stories, movies, reading something someone else experienced, and bring the idea to the table, to determine if its something that moves us. We do not bring the actual person to the table. It may be intriguing as hell to talk about bringing that person to the table, but we're unable to ever just experience another person without experiencing another person, and all that comes with them. We don't truly want to experience another person, or we'd do so. We've explored that in a fantasy kind of way, and realized easily that in each scenario, what moved us was eachothers response to the scenario, it had not a damn thing to do with the other person. We couldn't stop talking about what we'd do to eachother.
We move eachother like crazy.

Love, intimacy, intense wild sex, intrigue and mystery can all be had between JUST two people, just as hotly as the (so called) "buffet" seems to offer.

Maybe its aging, maybe its something that just exisits in some and not in others, but I want and need something real and deep that touches to the core, explored intimately, with just one person.
Obviously, there are those that can have that while having others. For me, it would undermine everything I need and believe in.

I guess it comes down to honestly understanding yourself and what you need, and WHY you need it. We are in a really good place, and we've worked hard for it. It seems the harder we work, the more we give, the stronger we are. I like that.

 

[Jimi]

Intriguing!

Yup - the loss of intimacy of soul in a relationship is WAAAY more agonizing than the sex. As you said:

Love, intimacy, intense wild sex, intrigue and mystery can all be had between JUST two people, just as hotly as the (so called) "buffet" seems to offer.

As much as I am going through "Middle-aged Crazy" - I still want that main relationship to work.

AND, the fabulous thing about Lit., is - that ALL the BABES with whom I flirt outrageously know that and support me in that quest!

 

[intrigued]

Re: Intriguing!

Yup - the loss of intimacy of soul in a relationship is WAAAY more agonizing than the sex. As you said:



As much as I am going through "Middle-aged Crazy" - I still want that main relationship to work.

AND, the fabulous thing about Lit., is - that ALL the BABES with whom I flirt outrageously know that and support me in that quest!

Well Jimi, you know I support you, but I support the bigger picture, too.
I do understand that it takes two, and I truly hope something changes for the better.

I'm just really curious here, in what way does the flirting help you? I mean just flirting, I don't mean having anything more than that.

 

[Jimi]

Re: Re: Intriguing!

Well Jimi, you know I support you, but I support the bigger picture, too.
I do understand that it takes two, and I truly hope something changes for the better.

I'm just really curious here, in what way does the flirting help you? I mean just flirting, I don't mean having anything more than that.

I feel MALE!

Seriously, that's part of it, and to know that there are attractive, intelligent female personages out there of a variety of ages, that find ME attractive, and worthy of friendship.

 

[lovetoread]

Re: Re: Re: Intriguing!

I feel MALE!

You are male?

 

[Jimi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Intriguing!

You are male?

Last time I looked, Yup.... Wanna check it out in person, Hon?

 

[lovetoread]

Last time I looked, Yup.... Wanna check it out in person, Hon?

Heh...well since you asked,ok.

 

[Jimi]

Sorry, MissT!

Heh...well since you asked,ok.

for the Hi! Jack!

LTR

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: Re: Intriguing!

I feel MALE!

Seriously, that's part of it, and to know that there are attractive, intelligent female personages out there of a variety of ages, that find ME attractive, and worthy of friendship.

I understand that.

But if what I'm wanting and needing is Person A, no amount of persons B-Z can ever give me what I want and need.
I want and need Person A.

I am so damn literal, huh?

 

[8ball]

MT and Intrigued, nice posts.

This particular bottom line has been said, but, I want to say it again, so bite me. (not too hard, please)

If you are in a relationship and choose it to be monogamous, then, any intimate relationship outside of the first relationship is cheating. Period. I had qualified relationship as a committed one, but, decided that it need not be, to be cheating. The keys are, monogamous and choice.

This doesn't have necessarily anything to do with religion and spirituality. It's a decision made by the participants, between the participants, for the participants.

I truly think that having a monogamous relationship can be one of the most fulfilling events of your life. That one person, and all the mushy things that that entails. Call me a romantic, putz, whatever you like.

 

[wire]

If two people really love each other and fulfill each others needs then there should be no cheating or wanting to go out looking for it any where else. If there is a problem with the sex then a bit of coaching between each other will produce great love making. If they are into swinging then that is a mutual agreement.

 

[Gil_Favor]

Cheating destroys families...

I had my first real affair in the late 80s,After I fessed up to my infidelities and was "forgiven" we went on to do the swinging lifestyle, where we both participated together.

It was fun and exciting, but like all things in life it became routine. So what is the next step? Watch your SO get gangbanged by strangers?

I had my second real affair in the early 90s, This one destroyed my marriage and family. A real reality check for me.

So, while it is fun to fuck around, we are not young forever, There is more to life and relationships than sex............

 

[intrigued]

MT and Intrigued, nice posts.

This particular bottom line has been said, but, I want to say it again, so bite me. (not too hard, please)

If you are in a relationship and choose it to be monogamous, then, any intimate relationship outside of the first relationship is cheating. Period. I had qualified relationship as a committed one, but, decided that it need not be, to be cheating. The keys are, monogamous and choice.

This doesn't have necessarily anything to do with religion and spirituality. It's a decision made by the participants, between the participants, for the participants.

I truly think that having a monogamous relationship can be one of the most fulfilling events of your life. That one person, and all the mushy things that that entails. Call me a romantic, putz, whatever you like.

You romantic putz, I so agree with you!

 

[8ball]

You romantic putz, I so agree with you!

Hey! You didn't have to take me so literally.

 

[intrigued]

Hey! You didn't have to take me so literally.

Ah, but as I said above, I am so damn literal.

 

[8ball]

Ah, but as I said above, I am so damn literal.

Don't be bringing politics into this thread. I don't care if you are a liberal. Politics and cheating do not go hand in han...er...nevermind.