Anyone else?

[LTMMC]

why not focus on root causes and solutions instead?

As horrible as the experiences are, mentioned on this thread, I find thinking about root causes and solutions much more constructive. And I am fairly sure, one cause for sure is the rather “cavalier” view that society takes on the intimacy thieves mentioned here. Our moralizing society clamors more about too much sex and intimacy instead about the lack of it. And intimacy thieves are hardly ever assigned any blame in public discourses. This goes as far as those who suffer from lack of intimacy – feeling guilty about potential medical solutions. Like Christhesweep believes it would be unfair for his wife to seek medical help.

So when the thieves of intimacy are pronounced innocent by the moralizers in society, no wonder those seeking constructive solutions for the problem are assigned all the blame usually.

I see it differently, so niceshot (post#151) and windman (#152) who did find a solution for themselves, are due + receive my full respect. It seems to me, if society overall made a full turn in who to empathize with and who to assign blame to, we all would achieve far greater progress towards pragmatic solutions.

I am convinced people unaware or unconcerned about the grave discomfort or even cruelty they are causing their spouses – with more need for intimacy and higher sex drives – should consult behavioral psychologists, and not “Freudian” ones, because their problems are solveable, once they are treated for what they are: behavioral aberrations mainly. Possibly needing medical support as well.

And I cannot help thinking, had we as a society not allowed moralizers to capture the interpretation leadership here, but instead rational problem solvers, the pharma giants would have come up with medicines by now. So what if there are side effects; does anybody seriously pretend that lack of intimacy has no side effects?

And of course we also need more “intimacy caregivers”. Sex toys and ordinary sex workers are not ideally suited for this. And gigolos for women tend to be rather expensive. But I am sure that a less ideologically-driven society can figure out solutions. Like inter-generational aid within families, for instance. Or simply warmer welcomed bisexuality than now.

And then I posit, some amount of out-of-the-box thinking will help as well. If a woman is missing intimacy, far more than just orgasms, intimacy can be had in “remote” ways also. Like I have been practicing this with one married FWB or the other. Our results have not always been perfect, but they were far better than no intimacy at all.

 

[StarGazer58]

I'm just curious -- is there any part of life that "is" like what we were told as kids? In my experience, I'd say most of what I saw in the popular culture when I was growing up in the 1970s wasn't even close to what life is really like for me.

Honestly, when I was 12 -- I think my favorite TV show that year was Kolchack: The Night Stalker -- because he was out there tracking down real monsters. TV shows like the Partridge Family, The Brady Bunch, The Waltons, etc. were outside of my experience.

I guess I'm asking why would anyone ever think that "real life" is like anyone tells you it is. Everyone wants to present an idealized version of what their lives are like, rather than admit that life just isn't ideal for most of us. And while there may be a lucky few who are living the dream, I'd say that's probably not true for 99.9% of the people in the world.

Or am I just being a pessimist here?

You didn't have a crush on Marsha, Marsha, Marsha?

 

[TemptationTango]

I know we are all fighting Mother Nature here, and she can be a cruel cold bitch. Once nesting is complete, whether or not your woman has had babies, biology turns off the very things that attracted us dumb males who are also driven by a similar but different set of chemicals and possibly some dented dna. Things are designed for reproduction at a pretty high efficiency level, and once that 'efficient' age has passed, the volume gets cut way back.

Most of us realize it is not the fault of our spouses, which in turn complicates our reaction to this HUGE grey area. Then we get selfish and start plotting a way to help Mr Dangle get laid because the little bastard is yapping all the time, blabbering on and on about getting his full body massage, no matter what the circumstances. If you go read some of the personal threads here, it looks to me like men over 50 are the top of the heap in competition for a woman to talk with, while women over 50 are sitting back in the Captains chair, sipping a Martini and flicking through a thousand PM's every hour. I really think that the Curvyjae's are somewhat rare across the board here, and I sincerely hope she can find someone to bond with in the way she needs.

Maybe us older men should put in a request for Mother Nature to turn off the last remaining drops of Testosterone, Pheromones, ....along with ability to sidle up to any un-supecting female and utter.......(in a NYC accent) "How you doing?"

All this kinda reminds me of that scene in Walking Dead when they were in Atlanta and they surrounded the tank that Rick was hiding in. Except, Rick is mature female, and ALL the zombies are dudes like me over 50.

Lit Ladies...my hat is truly off to ya

 

[LTMMC]

When I wrote my post 176, I had read far too few posts on this thread. But now after I read more, I see two facts corroborated by many here: what people not having sex find so cruelly disturbing is the lack of intimacy. And that is mostly emotional intimacy, not only physical.

And fact #2: desire for intimacy seems to be very much hormone-related, in both partners. So nobody can tell me, the problem cannot it cannot be “righted” again, or at least relieved, by manipulating hormone levels.

What I find most disturbing, then, is a pretty much ignorant approach to the problem by medical research, and a horrible lack of bad conscience on the part of the “intimacy thieves”, as I called them. After all, these thieves are spouses in most cases. Who supposedly love their husband or their wife.

So I cannot help thinking: the worst thing wrong here is an ignorant to blatantly wrong perception in societies about this whole matter. Putting moral blame on the wrong side of the problem. And here is where my suspicion of an ideology comes in. “Organized public morality” supports the perpetrators, and it condemns the seekers of solutions. And no wonder it is worse in USA than in most other places of the world. Because organized religion here is strongest. And so is ignorance about the workings of Mother Nature.

 

[NorthernVAM]

You didn't have a crush on Marsha, Marsha, Marsha?

Yes .. I did watch the Brady Bunch when I was 8, 9, and 10 -- and I actually thought Jan was more interesting than Marsha.

 

[lustingmoment]

Anyone else mostly happily married? Like your life is good- have good jobs, don’t fight, all appears well, but there’s just nothing there. No spark. No passion. Literally like living with a roommate that you share a bed with? You try and try to initiate things, go on dates, do special things for them hoping they’ll return it or there will be a spark or passion, yet nothing happens. What do you do? Stay? Leave? Stay and just find someone on the side to fulfill those needs?

I can’t be the only one?!?

Yes I am the same I try to spark some fun with my wife to no avail I chat on kik and other streams for fun and indulgence

 

[StarGazer58]

I believe the marriage that slowly evolves into more of a friendship rather than passionate lovers is more the norm than the exception. Just the day in and day out problems of life, days on repeat; wake, work, eat and sleep, almost like groundhog day, makes it hard to keep the passion going. When you have been living with a person for 30 years, it is hard to discover new things about the other, discover new things to do together.

As a person grows older and thinks back, most people miss that first meeting, when a whole new relationship, a whole new person comes suddenly into your life. The fun of getting the know the person, the first kiss, the building of sexual tension. All of that is gone after 20 years together. You become like the comfortable, worn pair of gloves that just fit together.

A lot of people say they prefer the comfortable sex, the safe sex where you have been with same person a thousand times but I still believe that first time sex is the most exciting, the most passionate but that is just my opinion.

 

[Em147]

Anyone else mostly happily married? Like your life is good- have good jobs, don’t fight, all appears well, but there’s just nothing there. No spark. No passion. Literally like living with a roommate that you share a bed with? You try and try to initiate things, go on dates, do special things for them hoping they’ll return it or there will be a spark or passion, yet nothing happens. What do you do? Stay? Leave? Stay and just find someone on the side to fulfill those needs?

I can’t be the only one?!?

You aren't the only one. I am in a relationship just like that.

 

[sinfulpleasure67]

Anyone else mostly happily married? Like your life is good- have good jobs, don’t fight, all appears well, but there’s just nothing there. No spark. No passion. Literally like living with a roommate that you share a bed with? You try and try to initiate things, go on dates, do special things for them hoping they’ll return it or there will be a spark or passion, yet nothing happens. What do you do? Stay? Leave? Stay and just find someone on the side to fulfill those needs?

I can’t be the only one?!?

Yes and it fucking sucks. It fucks with you mind and your sense self worth and confidence. Finding someone on the side would be nice. Not even sure where to go to find that. Smart thing would be to leave. But the thought of starting over isn’t pleasant either. I miss a woman’s touch. Taste and smell on my body.. miss Pleasing a woman. Hearing h r moans and wimpers in my ear l. self love gets old.

 

[Jose9h]

Yes and it fucking sucks. It fucks with you mind and your sense self worth and confidence. Finding someone on the side would be nice. Not even sure where to go to find that. Smart thing would be to leave. But the thought of starting over isn’t pleasant either. I miss a woman’s touch. Taste and smell on my body.. miss Pleasing a woman. Hearing h r moans and wimpers in my ear l. self love gets old.

Not just that, it's the warmth too. The sensation of another human body with you. The affection, the closeness. The touch of a woman can make a lot of problems melt away.

 

[sinfulpleasure67]

Not just that, it's the warmth too. The sensation of another human body with you. The affection, the closeness. The touch of a woman can make a lot of problems melt away.

Totally agree

 

[Mtnmike]

Yes and it fucking sucks. It fucks with you mind and your sense self worth and confidence. Finding someone on the side would be nice. Not even sure where to go to find that. Smart thing would be to leave. But the thought of starting over isn’t pleasant either. I miss a woman’s touch. Taste and smell on my body.. miss Pleasing a woman. Hearing h r moans and wimpers in my ear l. self love gets old.

Preach it man, it totally sucks !!!

 

[AnnieLit]

When I wrote my post 176, I had read far too few posts on this thread. But now after I read more, I see two facts corroborated by many here: what people not having sex find so cruelly disturbing is the lack of intimacy. And that is mostly emotional intimacy, not only physical.

And fact #2: desire for intimacy seems to be very much hormone-related, in both partners. So nobody can tell me, the problem cannot it cannot be “righted” again, or at least relieved, by manipulating hormone levels.

What I find most disturbing, then, is a pretty much ignorant approach to the problem by medical research, and a horrible lack of bad conscience on the part of the “intimacy thieves”, as I called them. After all, these thieves are spouses in most cases. Who supposedly love their husband or their wife.

So I cannot help thinking: the worst thing wrong here is an ignorant to blatantly wrong perception in societies about this whole matter. Putting moral blame on the wrong side of the problem. And here is where my suspicion of an ideology comes in. “Organized public morality” supports the perpetrators, and it condemns the seekers of solutions. And no wonder it is worse in USA than in most other places of the world. Because organized religion here is strongest. And so is ignorance about the workings of Mother Nature.

That easy, just take a pill, a shot, a patch and everything will be alright again? Really?!

Have you ever heard a term "side effects"? Sure, shove those synthetic hormones into her, after all, your sex life is much more important than her health. Increased risk of stroke, increased risk of cancer, you know, small things, nothing major, nothing that can be compared to the agony of you not getting some. Figuring out how to talk to her about getting some on the side? No, of course not, that will require work on your part, it is much easier to make it her responsibility, right?

 

[TemptationTango]

I think that most of us don't`want an affair, we want the person we're attracted too, our best friend. I agree, hormone therapy has it's drawbacks, but so does sensory isolation, lonelyness and the associated depression.
At least for me, I was not actively looking for a 'substitute', all I know is that I am miserable. I should have the balls to discuss my options of finding a woman to satisfy my needs. But, my wife is content and has been for years since I stopped bringing "it" up( pun intended). Why would I want to drag her down with me by asking something that may help, but might cost more in the long run finacially and mentally?
I know I could be very wrong, but the majority of wives might not be as open minded and practical as you are. Which is why so many of us men in this situation are kind of in awe of the Lit women here for being so sexually practical and progressive....totally opposite from our homelife. It is refreshing, to say the least.

 

[AnnieLit]

I agree, hormone therapy has it's drawbacks, but so does sensory isolation, lonelyness and the associated depression.

The problem is who makes that choice.
Can a person choose to start with HRT? Sure! And many do. Can anybody force their partner to do it? In my book it's a no. And by "force" I mean the phycological pressure as well, not just shoving the pills down the throat.
How is this different from a husband or a father forcing or prohibiting a woman to get an abortion?

 

[Hipshot1554]

Anyone else mostly happily married? Like your life is good- have good jobs, don’t fight, all appears well, but there’s just nothing there. No spark. No passion. Literally like living with a roommate that you share a bed with? You try and try to initiate things, go on dates, do special things for them hoping they’ll return it or there will be a spark or passion, yet nothing happens. What do you do? Stay? Leave? Stay and just find someone on the side to fulfill those needs?

I can’t be the only one?!?

It's a big boat... almost full.

 

[TemptationTango]

Oh,, I agree, no forcing or guilt tripping. We discussed it, I suggested hormone therapy, she agreed. It was working, things improved, then she stopped, and I really don't know why...that was 3 years ago and I have not brought it up since.

 

[IsItBad]

Well, as with everything in life, God created man and woman for intimacy within marriage. This is why the Bible says neither party should deny themselves to the other (except for a short time as agreed upon as if for fasting). That is God's plan.....for man and woman, inside marriage, to freely give themselves to each other. There is no mention of if its convenient, if one feels emotionally close, or any of that sort of thing - it simply says give yourself to each other. Now I realize many may reject Biblical truth or guidance which is certainly your prerogative not that your opinion will affect God's outcome. So, the reality of the matter is it is SINFUL to deny yourself to your partner. That denial, which happens far too often, creates all kinds of other secondary issues. How many divorces occur because someone can't take it any more, goes out and finds a willing partner, cheats, gets caught, and then gets a divorce? And in 95% of the cases, the cheater is the culprit and no one ever judges the one who cut them off. It really all comes back to whether we want to and will live a Biblical marriage or not. It is NOT natural for the marriage to devolve into a platonic friendship. It is NOT acceptable for either party to decide to withhold themselves. It is also NOT acceptable to begrudgingly have sex out of duty. You are supposed to love your spouse, want your spouse, find your spouse as the source of your physical intimacy needs.

 

[drobert44]

100% - looking for option 3 here

U are not alone, I play here.........

https://imgur.com/G7kfKTE

 

[AnnieLit]

Well, as with everything in life, God created man and woman for intimacy within marriage. This is why the Bible says neither party should deny themselves to the other (except for a short time as agreed upon as if for fasting). That is God's plan.....for man and woman, inside marriage, to freely give themselves to each other. There is no mention of if its convenient, if one feels emotionally close, or any of that sort of thing - it simply says give yourself to each other. Now I realize many may reject Biblical truth or guidance which is certainly your prerogative not that your opinion will affect God's outcome. So, the reality of the matter is it is SINFUL to deny yourself to your partner. That denial, which happens far too often, creates all kinds of other secondary issues. How many divorces occur because someone can't take it any more, goes out and finds a willing partner, cheats, gets caught, and then gets a divorce? And in 95% of the cases, the cheater is the culprit and no one ever judges the one who cut them off. It really all comes back to whether we want to and will live a Biblical marriage or not. It is NOT natural for the marriage to devolve into a platonic friendship. It is NOT acceptable for either party to decide to withhold themselves. It is also NOT acceptable to begrudgingly have sex out of duty. You are supposed to love your spouse, want your spouse, find your spouse as the source of your physical intimacy needs.

NOBODY is supposed to give intimacy when they don't feel like giving it. This is called domestic abuse and rape.

 

[TemptationTango]

NOBODY is supposed to give intimacy when they don't feel like giving it. This is called domestic abuse and rape.

Agreed, and, most of us have had pity sex....it's waaay worse than not having sex at all.

 

[LTMMC]

ideological guidance
The pseudo-discussion I read here – since post #188 at least – has been driven by nothing other than ideology. One ideology I agree with, albeit not for religious reasons – and one driven by self-centricity. Too bad really, that ideologies drive so many of us to act and feel and think.

I wonder whatever happened to old-fashioned concepts of affection? Or consideration? Which used to make people do things they did not exactly crave doing, for the sake of somebody else sometimes.

 

[AnnieLit]

ideological guidance
The pseudo-discussion I read here – since post #188 at least – has been driven by nothing other than ideology. One ideology I agree with, albeit not for religious reasons – and one driven by self-centricity. Too bad really, that ideologies drive so many of us to act and feel and think.

I wonder whatever happened to old-fashioned concepts of affection? Or consideration? Which used to make people do things they did not exactly crave doing, for the sake of somebody else sometimes.

Nothing happened with affection and consideration, but both are given, not demanded. See the difference?

 

[CMK89]

Anyone else mostly happily married? Like your life is good- have good jobs, don’t fight, all appears well, but there’s just nothing there. No spark. No passion. Literally like living with a roommate that you share a bed with? You try and try to initiate things, go on dates, do special things for them hoping they’ll return it or there will be a spark or passion, yet nothing happens. What do you do? Stay? Leave? Stay and just find someone on the side to fulfill those needs?

I can’t be the only one?!?

Very similar to my situation.

 

[Dino1960]

Makes you wish for a free pass to do whatever you want a few nights a year!

Have you strayed ? To act out your desires and enjoy all the things you miss?