Biden's Legacy

[Politruk]

Crimea is never returning to Ukraine. Even the US acknowledges this

Then I don't believe Ukraine signed the 2022 deal you speak of.

 

[ll74]

That deal had nothing to do with Crimea. The deal existed and is now in the historical record. Even Western politicians acknowledge it now. I'm disgusted and shamed that we allowed Ukraine to sacrifice its young men to weaken Russia when it was clear it was never going to work. We in the West are morally bankrupt.

Ukraine walked out of that deal.

 

[ll74]

They walked out of it because we told them to.

Bullshit.

If they would've taken that deal, they would've lost a large portion of their country that no longer is in Russian control.

Johnson and Zelensky both dispute that MAGA narrative

 

[ll74]

I remember clearly. Boris Johnson, who was the PM of the UK at the time. went to Kiev and told them not to sign. That is the historical record

What you think went down isn't historical record.

Lol...Putin trained you well

Is there a Russian narrative you don't bend over for?

 

[ll74]

Why do you need to resort to insults rather than facts?

You believe propaganda. Me pointing that out isn't an insult....it's fact based observations. Whether you like my language or not on a porn site isn't my issue.

 

[Politruk]

That deal had nothing to do with Crimea. The deal existed and is now in the historical record. Even Western politicians acknowledge it now. I'm disgusted and shamed that we allowed Ukraine to sacrifice its young men to weaken Russia when it was clear it was never going to work. We in the West are morally bankrupt.

It didn't happen like you say.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy proposed in November 2022 a 10-point peace plan,[31][32][33] consisting of:

1. Safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant
2. Protecting food distribution
3. Restoration of Ukraine's energy infrastructure
4. Release of prisoners and return of Ukrainian children deported to Russia
5. Restoration of Ukrainian borders prior to the 2014 annexation of Crimea
6. Full withdrawal of Russian military forces from Ukraine
7. Prosecution of war crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine
8. Remediation of ecological damage caused by the Destruction of the Kakhovka Dam
9. Guarantees against future aggression
10. A multilateral peace conference

Two months before the invasion, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba dismissed the idea that declaring neutrality would prevent Russian aggression. He noted that Ukraine was a neutral country in 2014 when Russia occupied Crimea and invaded the Donbas.[34] In negotiations during March and April 2022, Ukraine was willing to consider a neutral status—wherein Ukraine would not join any military alliances or host forces of other nations on its territory—if it received security guarantees from its European allies.[35] Reacting to Russian attacks on civilian targets later that year, Kuleba said, "There can be no 'neutrality' in the face of such mass war crimes. Pretending to be 'neutral' equals taking Russia's side."[28]

In August 2022, Zelenskyy said that he would not agree to a ceasefire that would freeze the conflict while Russia occupied 22% of Ukraine: "We explained that there will be no Minsk-3, Minsk-5, or Minsk-7. We will not play these games, we have lost part of our territories this way ... it is a trap."[36] In September 2022, after Russia proclaimed it had annexed large swathes of Ukraine, Zelenskyy signed NATO application papers.[22] Ukraine has sought various security guarantees as interim measures prior to NATO accession, but there is no consensus within NATO about such an arrangement.[37] In June 2023, Zelensky said that Ukraine was not ready to negotiate with Russian representatives unless Russia withdrew its troops.[38] He repeated this refusal in January 2024.[39]

 

[Politruk]

I remember clearly. Boris Johnson, who was the PM of the UK at the time. went to Kiev and told them not to sign. That is the historical record

That didn't happen. There's no mention of it here, and there would be.

 

[ll74]

Propaganda goes both ways.

You're believing Russia Propaganda.

Whether we are on a porn site or not doesn't preclude being civil. I thought you were a good person, I continue to believe that. Differences in opinion is not grounds to offend or denigrate.

Poor guy. Did I hurt your feels?

If you feel hurt, then simply move along. I'm not here for you, princess.

 

[ll74]

Not at all, this is such a bizarre exchange. I'm only engaging with you because I have nothing else to do at the moment

How exciting for you.

Sorry that you want me to cater to your bullshit.

Perhaps you'll make it through this difficult time.

 

[ll74]

I a having a bit of an epiphany yes. Thank you for your contribution.

Fuck Russia

 

[ll74]

You are not coherent

It's a clear statement, dipshit.

Fuck Russia.
Fuck Putin

 

[Politruk]

I see. And this coherent statement of yours will advance the position of interstate relations in a meaningful way? Or does it help teach our children how they should interact with people they disagree with? I am starting to lose respect for you.

See posts #78 and #80.

 

[ll74]

I see. And this coherent statement of yours will advance the position of interstate relations in a meaningful way? Or does it help teach our children how they should interact with people they disagree with? I am starting to lose respect for you.

Lol...WTF do you think I owe you?

If you don't like how I talk to you, then simply stop interacting with me. Not rocket science.

Maybe DM Putin and ask.

 

[ll74]

I think as humans, we owe each other civility at least. The only reason I am interacting with you is as a,learning experience.

I don't owe you anything ..sorry princess

 

[ll74]

Thank you for showing me who you are

Dude, if you spent five mins in this forum, it was never a mystery. You blamed a Russian invasion on Biden.....that's who you are.....a Russian stooge. It was obvious from one post.

 

[Lazaran]

Let’s grade President Biden’s presidency like they grade a vault in gymnastics:

Degree of difficulty: Highest points possible.

President Biden:

1) Took over in the wake of an insurrection

2) Took over in the wake of a bungled Covid response.

3) Took over in the wake of a bungled foreign policy / relations regimen,

4) Took over in the wake of a collapsed economy / supply chain caused by bungled economic / trade policies in parallel with a bungled Covid response.

5) Took over in the wake of the hyper polarization of society caused by a bungled social justice / domestic tranquility regimen.



Execution: Perfect.

President Biden:

1) Moved past the insurrection.

2) Effectively dealt with Covid.

3) Successfully exited the U.S. from Afghanistan despite the FUBAR conditions he was left with (our military also performed magnificently).

3a) Anticipated Putin’s / Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and organized a robust alliance once it became clear Ukrainians were willing to fight for their freedom / independence.

3b) Stood shoulder to shoulder with Israel after 10/7 and assisted with the dismantling of Hamas & Hezbollah, while simultaneously weakening Iran and collapsing the Assad regime.

3c) Built NEW alliances and strengthened old ones (INCLUDING EXPANDING NATO) to deal with present & future challenges / threats from the new axis of evil.

4) Leveraged our global alliances and addressed disruptions to supply chains, which stabilized the economy (domestic AND world).

4b) Passed legislation that directly and indirectly benefited the economy and workers.

5) Acknowledged EVERY American’s right to dignity, justice and a voice / an old opportunity to be heard (even at great cost to his presidency & the Democratic Party)



Sticking the landing: Perfect.

President Biden:

1) Took an economy that EVERY expert economist predicted was destined for a hard landing (a MAJOR recession / depression) and managed to achieve a soft landing (no recession at all).

2) Stuck. The. Landing.



Overall, if I were a judge grading President Biden’s PRESIDENCY on a scale of 1-10, I would give him a perfect 10.



If I were a judge grading President Biden’s CANDIDACY for a second term on a scale of 1-10, I would give him a solid 1.



I would also give the American electorate a solid 1 for its performance.

 

[jomar]

Biden's legacy is an astounding record of failure, incompetence, and destruction. A malignant cancer that will record him in history as, not just a failure, but as one of the, if not the, worst President's in US history.

He's been thoroughly repudiated—through the polls, which show he’s one of the lowest-rates presidents of all time, at the ballot box where his hand-picked successor Kamala Harris was brutalized in the elections. Inflation has killed the dreams of regular folks as just paying for groceries has become a traumatic experience; young people have no hope of buying a home or living the American Dream—considering the crushing interest rates and noxious cost of living. His tenure as president will likely be remembered not just as an era of economic mismanagement but as a multi-pronged disaster, failing at everything, his only "achievements" being negatives.

While every administration has its challenges, few have left such a clear trail of cause and effect as Biden’s policies did in fueling inflation—a scourge that has eroded the financial well-being of millions of Americans and upended the economy. Biden's reckless spending achieved little but fueling inflation, sending it skyrocketing to a 40-year high, peaking at 9.1% in June 2022 and leaving the incoming administration with an unprecedented financial mess to fix.

Biden's weakness has been obvious from the start, with the disastrous and chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan beginning a descent into international turmoil that has ledto wars breaking out and raging on the international stage. Over the past four years, the world has become far more unstable, and Biden's weakness as commander in chief was a major factor, not least of the impacts being Putin's taking advantage of Biden's weakness to launch the invasion of Ukraine - another mess for Trump to clean up, and one that, thanks to Biden's failure to decisively support Ukraine, has been made far far worse than it should have been. Putin clearly understood he could terrorize Ukraine without fear of serious retribution, showcasing Biden's weakness as a world leader. Weak Presidents bring hard times internationally, something Biden illustrated all too well.

And let's not even talk about the Border chaos and illegal immigration, which has been out of control for the last four years.

Not least of Biden's legacies has been the ongoing erosion of Americans’ faith that the justice system is fair and equal for all, with a blatantly two-tier administration of justice, a corrupt and politically biased DOJ and FBI, politically motivated prosecutions and even more blatantly destructive, the blanket pardon he issued to his son, and now, in his last few days in office, his downright demented unilateral declaration of a new Constitutional amendment that he has said is now the law of the land, despite neither of those things being remotely possible under our system of government.

The reality is that Biden is a serious danger and now he’s frankly sounding like an escaped lunatic. It wouldn’t matter if he weren’t still commander in chief of the most powerful country in the world, but unbelievably, he still is. The 25th should have been invoked a long time ago, and his entire Administration is culpable for leaving him im place. Let's just hope he doesn't try and do something even more sinister as he burns down his already terrible legacy.

*CLAP CLAP CLAP*

Outstanding creative writing! Let’s check with the presidential raters in six months. Too soon to rate Biden, but I’ll bet he’ll be way higher than trump. Meanwhile, trump, who is currently rated among the worst 3 rated presidents ever, may be able to improve his ranking if he doesn’t suck as much as he did last tine, and continues to shine in his only high category-luck!

 

[ll74]

*CLAP CLAP CLAP*

Outstanding creative writing! Let’s check with the presidential raters in six months. Too soon to rate Biden, but I’ll bet he’ll be way higher than trump. Meanwhile, trump, who is currently rated among the worst 3 rated presidents ever, may be able to improve his ranking if he doesn’t suck as much as he did last tine, and continues to shine in his only high category-luck!

This thread is about Biden's legacy

 

[ll74]

Thank you for your very thorough post, I appreciate it.

The deal you cite is pretty much theatrics on the part of zelensky. The deal I refer to is the one of March/April 2022, signed by the negotiators of both Russia and Ukraine. It would have ended the war. Boris Johnson was dispatched to Ukraine to nix the deal, which he did. This is acknowledged now by pretty much everyone.

It wasn't signed by either country.

 

[ll74]

It was approved by both pending approval of the leadership

It was not.

 

[Politruk]

Thank you for your very thorough post, I appreciate it.

The deal you cite is pretty much theatrics on the part of zelensky. The deal I refer to is the one of March/April 2022, signed by the negotiators of both Russia and Ukraine. It would have ended the war. Boris Johnson was dispatched to Ukraine to nix the deal, which he did. This is acknowledged now by pretty much everyone.

See posts #78 and #80.

 

[ll74]

I have to admit to being slightly frustrated. Post 78 refers to a deal in November of 2022. This isn't the deal I am referencing which was made in April of 2022. It was signed by both parties pending authorization from the leadership. What am I missing please?

It wasn't signed by either party.

You haven't provided evidence to support it because you have none

 

[Politruk]

I have to admit to being slightly frustrated. Post 78 refers to a deal in November of 2022. This isn't the deal I am referencing which was made in April of 2022. It was signed by both parties pending authorization from the leadership. What am I missing please?

This:

April 2022​

On 7 April, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that the peace deal Ukraine drafted and presented to the Russian government contained "unacceptable" elements. Lavrov said that the proposal diverged from the terms negotiators had agreed on. Mykhaylo Podolyak, a negotiator for Ukraine, said that the comments from Lavrov are a tactic to draw attention away from the war crime accusations against Russian forces. Lastly, Lavrov stated, "Despite all the provocations, the Russian delegation will continue with the negotiation process, pressing for our own draft agreement that clearly and fully outlines our initial and key positions and requirements."[80]

According to a May report from Ukrainska Pravda, the Russian side was ready for a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin, but it later came to a halt after the discovery of war crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in particular the Bucha massacre on 1 April. In a surprise visit to Ukraine on 9 April, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said "Putin is a war criminal, he should be pressured, not negotiated with," and that the collective West was not willing to make a deal with Putin. Three days after Johnson left Kyiv, Putin stated publicly that talks with Ukraine "had turned into a dead end". Naftali Bennett said in 2023 that both sides had wanted a ceasefire, the odds of the deal holding had been 50-50, and that the Western powers backing Ukraine had stopped the deal.[81] Later he expressed doubts regarding the desirability of such a deal.[82][83] Roman Abramovich visited Kyiv in an attempt to resume negotiations. Zelenskyy proposed negotiating two separate documents, one being a bilateral agreement between Ukraine and Russia, and the other involving Ukraine and the West.[84] Ukrainian lead negotiator (at this point) Davyd Arakhamia stated in an interview on 24 November 2023 that the neutral status of Ukraine was the key Russian demand during the negotiations and that the western countries were aware of the negotiations and advised Ukraine not to rely on security guarantees. Arakhamia also denied that Johnson stopped Kyiv from signing an agreement stipulating Ukraine's neutrality saying that the Ukrainian delegation did not have the authority to do it.[76]

On 11 April, the Chancellor of Austria, Karl Nehammer, visited and spoke with Putin in Moscow in 'very direct, open and hard' talks which were skeptical of the short-term peaceful resolution of the invasion.[85] On 26 April, the Secretary-General of the United Nations António Guterres visited Russia for the purpose of speaking with Putin and Lavrov in separate meetings. After the meetings, it was revealed that Putin and Lavrov were skeptical as to reaching any short term resolution of differences between Russia and Ukraine, largely due to very different respective perspectives on the circumstances of the invasion presently being adopted by each of the two nations.[86]

According to U.S. officials who spoke to Foreign Affairs, a provisional agreement was reached in April, whereby the Russian forces would withdraw to the pre-invasion line and Ukraine would commit not to seek to join NATO in exchange for security guarantees from a number of countries. However, in a July interview with Russian state media, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stated that this compromise was no longer an option, saying that even the Donbas was not enough and that the "geography had changed."[87]



That's what happened in April 2022. Johnson was critical, but did not "nix" the deal; there was never a chance Ukraine would accept it.

 

[jomar]

This thread is about Biden's legacy.

Ah, despite your pedantic nature you must have not noticed that I did mention that Biden’s legacy would likely outshine trump’s.

 

[ll74]

Ah, despite your pedantic nature you must have not noticed that I did mention that Biden’s legacy would likely outshine trump’s.

This thread isn't about a comparison. Else it would be titled "Biden's Legacy Comparison to other Presidents "