Delving the Psyche of Sadists

[RJMasters]

Thank you Rebecca for the bump and thank you Etoile for your comments.

A question perhaps to spark some further discussion...

How much of a motivational role do things like "anger", "mean-ness", "fustraton" play when acting on sadistic urges?

1. Do you find it to be a huge part?
2. Do you find it to be a half and half type of thing?
3. They don't come into play at all.

Somethng I have noticed about myself is that I have different feelings afterwards depending on what underlying motive was present during what ever sadistic act I may have done. When passion and sexual desire are the main motives, or when calm testing of control is the main motive...the rewards afterwards are much higher and satisfying for me. Whenever anger or fustration was present, it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyone else want to get in on this and share?

 

[Let_it_come]

Thank you Rebecca for the bump and thank you Etoile for your comments.

A question perhaps to spark some further discussion...

How much of a motivational role do things like "anger", "mean-ness", "fustraton" play when acting on sadistic urges?

1. Do you find it to be a huge part?
2. Do you find it to be a half and half type of thing?
3. They don't come into play at all.

Somethng I have noticed about myself is that I have different feelings afterwards depending on what underlying motive was present during what ever sadistic act I may have done. When passion and sexual desire are the main motives, or when calm testing of control is the main motive...the rewards afterwards are much higher and satisfying for me. Whenever anger or fustration was present, it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Anyone else want to get in on this and share?

In RL I always play with willing 'victims'.
In my fantasies I find non-con far hotter.
I'm never angry, mean, or frustrated, I'm always just expressing my sexual love of cruelty.
Someone's face crying with cum being spurted over it or another woman rubbing her wet cunt over said face is a powerful image for me.
My desire to hurt in a sexual situation is purely to express myself and to highten my sexual pleasure.
My dream lover would be abusive & uncaring towards me. I'd LOVE his cruelty.
And the dream person that I would be cruel to in bed would HATE my cruelty. My pleasure would come from, probably her, pain.

All a bit of a mix for me.

The above is not very PC I know, but it is honest.
Oh - and to just re-itterate I'm only a sexual sadist with my boy. I'm not a sadist in any of my other actions. It's lazy logic to say that just because I get off on cruelty I must be doing the same thing if & when I piss you off on the forums. Hope I've got rid of that loophole for clumsy criticisms of my pain-lovin' posts!
Yer old friend Jen.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Thank you Rebecca for the bump

What can I say the 'bump' was self serving , I am very fond of this thread and have huge respect for many that have contributed to it. Curious to always learn more as in ways I am drawn .

 

[RJMasters]

Yer old friend Jen.

Yer not my friend, never was and never will be.

 

[Let_it_come]

Yer not my friend, never was and never will be.

LOL!
That's only a turn-on for a sadist -


Jack-off needed RJ?
It'll make ya feel better!

(OK, so that was all Trolly & wrong. Let me say I'm sorry right now to save time later)

Here are some kisses to help:

(See how those kisses just make things worse? I .... gotta...stop.... the ... kisses...)

You're cool RJ. Don't fret. Not that you ever were anyway...

Jenny -

 

[RJMasters]

......

 

[JMohegan]

How much of a motivational role do things like "anger", "mean-ness", "fustraton" play when acting on sadistic urges?

1. Do you find it to be a huge part?
2. Do you find it to be a half and half type of thing?
3. They don't come into play at all.

To me, acting out of anger or frustration represents a loss of personal control. This can lead to a reduction of self-respect on my part, and diminishing of my partner's trust.

My answer to your question is #3, but not because I never slip up. (Unfortunately, I sometimes do.)

I picked 3 because, to me, acting out of anger simply represents unacceptable behavior and sadism is a poor excuse for it. That is to say, I acknowledge the urge to lash out in anger, but I do not accept it as a legitimate expression of my sexual sadism.

My inner Dominant works hard to keep my inner sadist in check. At no time is this control more important than when I am angry.

 

[Let_it_come]

More thoughts:

Sadism & specifically Sexual Sadism can be different I think.
I'm not a Sadist 24/7, just a sexual sadist. Sadism in bed (& in bed only)brings me purely sexual pleasure.
I hate bullying etc in RL. But in bed I just love cruelty.
The sexual pleasure of cruelty is much more basic than a lot of what is being discussed here, much of which I think applies to Sadism generally not the specific sexual pleasure of being cruel.
Hurting turns me on & makes me cum. Simple as that.
There is no 'sharing of the real me' (If I'm honest), there is no 'enjoyment of control' going on. Just the pleasure of cruelty.
It is as simple as that for me.
And, I am fully aware, as socially unacceptable as that too.
Just a POV.

Jenny

 

[Let_it_come]

Giving this a little bump hoping that, in addition to my comments on 'Not a Dom not a Sub' & 'Sadists', my comments here will help get my (obviously very personal it would seem) POV on this subject across.

Jenny

 

[RJMasters]

To me, acting out of anger or frustration represents a loss of personal control. This can lead to a reduction of self-respect on my part, and diminishing of my partner's trust.

My answer to your question is #3, but not because I never slip up. (Unfortunately, I sometimes do.)

I picked 3 because, to me, acting out of anger simply represents unacceptable behavior and sadism is a poor excuse for it. That is to say, I acknowledge the urge to lash out in anger, but I do not accept it as a legitimate expression of my sexual sadism.

My inner Dominant works hard to keep my inner sadist in check. At no time is this control more important than when I am angry.

Thank you for sharing this Mohegan. I can sense that we have walk some same stretches of road....I really can identify at times with the last statement you said.

 

[JMohegan]

Thank you for sharing this Mohegan. I can sense that we have walk some same stretches of road....I really can identify at times with the last statement you said.

No problem.

I can identify with many of the points you made in the first post on this thread as well. However, I would not say that the increased intimacy explains *why* I enjoy "inflicting pain upon another". I would describe it more as a byproduct that allows my superego to accept what's going on.

 

[neonflux]

*bump* for all us newbies - thanks JMohegan & RJ.. Neon

so much to think about, need to finish reading first, but the first two page got my heart pounding and set my mind to reeling...

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

*bump* for all us newbies - thanks JMohegan & RJ.. Neon

so much to think about, need to finish reading first, but the first two page got my heart pounding and set my mind to reeling...

Hey Neon get out of my thread would you........smiles

 

[neonflux]

Hey Neon get out of my thread would you........smiles

Ah Rebecca, just as I was just about to invite you into my bump (and you may take that any way you'd like )

 

[Bredon]

Thank you for bumping, Neon

That's exactly the thread I needed. I have read only some pages so far, but liked the following:

When doing this with a S/O, they are opening themselves and showing the other "this is who I am" and yes it is that scary. Imagine the great worth when the S/O shows not only acceptance, but takes pleasure from who and what they are.

That's about the same that I wrote after my first sub/dom encounters. That was the feeling that washed me away really and that made the whole experience so wonderful. It took away some very deep fear. Perhaps the fear: I am a monster-- I can be a monster and still be loved for it-- I can confront the fear that I am a monster.
(sounds a bit like a cheesy old horrormovie: I know you are a werewolf/mummy/vampire but I still love you *lol*)

Then I liked Oliver Twists idea that it's a kind of release of old emotions of pain and guilt, in a save context.

I also needed to hear that Francisco and other "old" doms have struggled with dom/sadist guilt too.

Thank you!
Bredon

 

[neonflux]

He Bredon! I think that this has been one thread that's really drawn me, because it's something I've been trying to figure out - there is a part of me that wants to know why I am the way I am. Have recently discovered a very nasty, evil persona inside me and this makes me want to understand it even more...

That statement of RJMasters that you quoted sent shivers (good kind) down my spine. Some of the other comments that he made in his first quote also really got to me...

<snip> In some ways I have a clear and narrow reason why. I use pain as a means to induce deeper love, loyalty and fear in order to draw the person of my desire closer to me.

Love - Knowing there is a deep seeded need in the one I am administering the pain unto(meeting the masochistic needs of my S/O). I want to be the one to meet that need, to be that keeper and controller of that drug. This translates to control.

I have mentioned this before but I feel tremendous tenderness towards someone on whom I inflict pain - closer, more loving. I think that part of this may come from being switch, so understand my bottom's feelings, but it comes as much more from the fact that they trust me to allow me to do this... from the responsibility I feel for the exchange, for "holding the space." It's very profound. I also get enjoyment from knowing a person well enough to know what they want, when I am challenging, etc.

<snip again> To understand the psyche of a sadist, I feel is important to speak about the realness of pain. Some would laugh at such a simple and obvious statement, but it is easy than one might think to over look the value of grasping what I mean by the "realness" of pain.

Most people spend their whole lives developing defensives and ways to numb them selves from knowing and experiencing pain. Sadist spend their whole lives developing ways to tear down these defenses and remove the numbness in order to make others face the realness of pain[/B].

The realness of pain simple means there is real power or force. The sadist knows this, feels it, and seeks to use it as a means of control and pleasure. They are intimately aware of the advantage this gives them over two types of people; Those that do everything to shy away from pain in order to not feel it, and those who have a need or craving for it. </snip>

RJ, this passage reminds me of a critique I read of de Sade which stated that he was the 1st "modern man" because he needed pain in order to connect. I think that there is definitely something deadening, numbing in our modern, consumer culture. Something that creates a tremendous spiritual and emotional hole. de Sade was a nobleman who was able to sate every whim, fancy, need without struggle - although my understanding is that his childhood was horrendous, I think this explanation for his "Sadism" is too easy. He wrote of needing to give pain in order to be awakened from boredom, in order to feel alive...

S/m play (both giving and receiving pain) brings with it an emotional/spiritual intensity that I've never found in any sexual experience before, and I've always enjoyed sex as a way to touch my lover and also a remarkable way to connect to what is divine in both us. For some reason, causing another person who seeks it physical pain intensifies these emotions. For the bottom this makes sense since the brain doesn't really differentiate between pain and pleasure. I want to understand better why this is so for the Top.

Others have mentioned the sense of power they get from causing pain. I don't associate that sense of power as much with the physical as with the mental, D/s aspects of BDSM. The Sadism pulls me somewhat because of power but also for another, perhaps even more profound reason that I haven't been able to figure out yet. Have only gone through page 3 of this thread - read it several times. Perhaps my answer awaits further on...

Neon

P.S., Brendon - thank you for exploring this with me

 

[skittles_lm]

He Bredon! I think that this has been one thread that's really drawn me, because it's something I've been trying to figure out - there is a part of me that wants to know why I am the way I am. Have recently discovered a very nasty, evil persona inside me and this makes me want to understand it even more...

That statement of RJMasters that you quoted sent shivers (good kind) down my spine. Some of the other comments that he made in his first quote also really got to me...

I have mentioned this before but I feel tremendous tenderness towards someone on whom I inflict pain - closer, more loving. I think that part of this may come from being switch, so understand my bottom's feelings, but it comes as much more from the fact that they trust me to allow me to do this... from the responsibility I feel for the exchange, for "holding the space." It's very profound. I also get enjoyment from knowing a person well enough to know what they want, when I am challenging, etc.

RJ, this passage reminds me of a critique I read of de Sade which stated that he was the 1st "modern man" because he needed pain in order to connect. I think that there is definitely something deadening, numbing in our modern, consumer culture. Something that creates a tremendous spiritual and emotional hole. de Sade was a nobleman who was able to sate every whim, fancy, need without struggle - although my understanding is that his childhood was horrendous, I think this explanation for his "Sadism" is too easy. He wrote of needing to give pain in order to be awakened from boredom, in order to feel alive...

S/m play (both giving and receiving pain) brings with it an emotional/spiritual intensity that I've never found in any sexual experience before, and I've always enjoyed sex as a way to touch my lover and also a remarkable way to connect to what is divine in both us. For some reason, causing another person who seeks it physical pain intensifies these emotions. For the bottom this makes sense since the brain doesn't really differentiate between pain and pleasure. I want to understand better why this is so for the Top.

Others have mentioned the sense of power they get from causing pain. I don't associate that sense of power as much with the physical as with the mental, D/s aspects of BDSM. The Sadism pulls me somewhat because of power but also for another, perhaps even more profound reason that I haven't been able to figure out yet. Have only gone through page 3 of this thread - read it several times. Perhaps my answer awaits further on...

Neon

P.S., Brendon - thank you for exploring this with me

Hmmmm, quite the bunch of philosophers we have here...this is some very interesting stuff! Keep it up, guys! Thanks for the good read.

 

[liberatedslave]

Ooh, what a fantastic thread. Thanks skittles for bumping it. I really should get off my lazy ass and do searches more often because there is just SO much great stuff.

This is a topic that my Sir and I have discussed a lot, not least because he's new to D/s and I am his first sub. Our first sessions he was really quite disturbed by how much inflicting pain on me increased his arousal. Afterwards he'd be asking, "How can you still want me? Like me even? How can you enjoy this?" He'd fantasized about BDSM for years and watched a certain amount of BDSM porn but none of that prepared him for the rawness of actually dominating another person and the emotional fallout of recognising that he really is a sadist.

He does really enjoy pushing me and sometimes will deliberately push me till I safeword, just to see where my tolerance for something ends. He loves the way I fear him. He's deliberately unpredictable so I'm often apprehensive without cause and that gives him as much of a kick as beating my ass does.

Sir does punish me but he is very careful not to act in anger - as others have said here - because then he thinks that he would lose his control and hurt me beyond what I could realistically tolerate or expect as a reasonable correctional punishment rather than blind vengeance.

On one occasion he was generally in a bad mood and started getting pissed off with me. We were joking around but I hadn't picked up on his mood and so when he grabbed me by the throat I was so surprised that I raised both hands to push his away. He'd also caught me while exhaling so there was no air in my lungs which always makes me a bit pannicky. Cue our first non-con scene. He was totally detached from me. I looked into his eyes and he simply wasn't there. It was really frightening but despite that I was really enjoying the scene and the revelation of this new side to him. I carried on 'resisting' because it was getting him so horny and he wasn't reprimanding me, he clearly wanted me to fight back. At one point I almost got away from him and he caught me by the ankle and floored me, pulling me back and calling me all the whores under the sun.

Then he slapped me round the face, which we had never done before (although he had admitted that the thought turned him on) because he's quite a big, heavy handed bloke and we didn't want to have me walking around with a bruised cheek. Also I'm epileptic so whacking me around the head is generally a bad idea. Because of the nature of the scene I wasn't about to protest or safeword but a few moments later he pushed me away and simply said "I'm stopping this now."

He went all quiet and wouldn't speak to me, which I really hate because I had no idea what was wrong or why he'd stopped the scene. I'd given no impression of not tolerating the scene and up until he'd stopped I'd been really enjoying it. So I let him go off into another room and have some space because he hates me pestering and worrying when he's in that kind of mood. After a while he came to bed and still wouldn't talk to me and it was apparent to me that he had been crying. I couldn't very well shake anything out of him so I just said, "I don't want to go to sleep with things left like this. Please talk to me."

He said that he had felt that he was about to really lose his control. He got an overpowering urge to REALLY hurt me. He wasn't seeking devotion or respect from me, he wasn't using me as his valued property, he simply wanted to hurt and damage me and then to fuck me till I split in half. I asked if he truly thought he would continue if he had seen me damaged and in serious pain, screaming my safeword. He said that he really wasn't sure he would have stopped, to which I replied that he did stop. He acted in my best interest before he even got that far. He said that he was terrified that one day I'd discover that I couldn't trust him, that he'd take things too far and lose me as a result.

He really scared himself that night and has been very controlled since. For my part I have been much more respectful of the sadist in him. Safewords give you such a sense of security because he's always respected mine and so I can switch a scene off or turn it down like a dimmer switch on a lightbulb if it all gets too much. Men at their most basic level simply aren't like that. Sadists definitely aren't. I do still trust him and I understand that I have something he doesn't in that I am able to literally lose control. My bonds or his hands ad his common sense are always there to catch me. He has nothing like that to fall back on. If he loses his control completely, because I'm smaller and weaker than him I'm going to get hurt. So I really understand the poster who said "My inner sadists is governed by my inner dominant."

How does that feel to dominants? To know you must constantly police yourself and that your self control and judgement are often the only safety valves available during a scene. Do you always feel like you've never truly let go, always held something back? Does it give you a nagging sense of unfulfillment or constraint? All PC consent issues aside, have you ever had the urge to just use someone like that, to really hurt them and treat them with total disregard? How do you govern that part of yourself? Is it always there, daring you, mocking your SSC persona?

Wow, that was a ramble and a half. I'm really interested in all this though. Sorry if I'm hijacking RJ, got a bit over-enthusiastic.

 

[intothewoods]

Wow, ls, what a post! I read it and thought, aww, poor guy. You handled it really well though. I'm interested to hear what others have to say too.

 

[Life_Noir]

Ooh, what a fantastic thread. Thanks skittles for bumping it. I really should get off my lazy ass and do searches more often because there is just SO much great stuff.

This is a topic that my Sir and I have discussed a lot, not least because he's new to D/s and I am his first sub. Our first sessions he was really quite disturbed by how much inflicting pain on me increased his arousal. Afterwards he'd be asking, "How can you still want me? Like me even? How can you enjoy this?" He'd fantasized about BDSM for years and watched a certain amount of BDSM porn but none of that prepared him for the rawness of actually dominating another person and the emotional fallout of recognising that he really is a sadist.

He does really enjoy pushing me and sometimes will deliberately push me till I safeword, just to see where my tolerance for something ends. He loves the way I fear him. He's deliberately unpredictable so I'm often apprehensive without cause and that gives him as much of a kick as beating my ass does.

Sir does punish me but he is very careful not to act in anger - as others have said here - because then he thinks that he would lose his control and hurt me beyond what I could realistically tolerate or expect as a reasonable correctional punishment rather than blind vengeance.

On one occasion he was generally in a bad mood and started getting pissed off with me. We were joking around but I hadn't picked up on his mood and so when he grabbed me by the throat I was so surprised that I raised both hands to push his away. He'd also caught me while exhaling so there was no air in my lungs which always makes me a bit pannicky. Cue our first non-con scene. He was totally detached from me. I looked into his eyes and he simply wasn't there. It was really frightening but despite that I was really enjoying the scene and the revelation of this new side to him. I carried on 'resisting' because it was getting him so horny and he wasn't reprimanding me, he clearly wanted me to fight back. At one point I almost got away from him and he caught me by the ankle and floored me, pulling me back and calling me all the whores under the sun.

Then he slapped me round the face, which we had never done before (although he had admitted that the thought turned him on) because he's quite a big, heavy handed bloke and we didn't want to have me walking around with a bruised cheek. Also I'm epileptic so whacking me around the head is generally a bad idea. Because of the nature of the scene I wasn't about to protest or safeword but a few moments later he pushed me away and simply said "I'm stopping this now."

He went all quiet and wouldn't speak to me, which I really hate because I had no idea what was wrong or why he'd stopped the scene. I'd given no impression of not tolerating the scene and up until he'd stopped I'd been really enjoying it. So I let him go off into another room and have some space because he hates me pestering and worrying when he's in that kind of mood. After a while he came to bed and still wouldn't talk to me and it was apparent to me that he had been crying. I couldn't very well shake anything out of him so I just said, "I don't want to go to sleep with things left like this. Please talk to me."

He said that he had felt that he was about to really lose his control. He got an overpowering urge to REALLY hurt me. He wasn't seeking devotion or respect from me, he wasn't using me as his valued property, he simply wanted to hurt and damage me and then to fuck me till I split in half. I asked if he truly thought he would continue if he had seen me damaged and in serious pain, screaming my safeword. He said that he really wasn't sure he would have stopped, to which I replied that he did stop. He acted in my best interest before he even got that far. He said that he was terrified that one day I'd discover that I couldn't trust him, that he'd take things too far and lose me as a result.

He really scared himself that night and has been very controlled since. For my part I have been much more respectful of the sadist in him. Safewords give you such a sense of security because he's always respected mine and so I can switch a scene off or turn it down like a dimmer switch on a lightbulb if it all gets too much. Men at their most basic level simply aren't like that. Sadists definitely aren't. I do still trust him and I understand that I have something he doesn't in that I am able to literally lose control. My bonds or his hands ad his common sense are always there to catch me. He has nothing like that to fall back on. If he loses his control completely, because I'm smaller and weaker than him I'm going to get hurt. So I really understand the poster who said "My inner sadists is governed by my inner dominant."

How does that feel to dominants? To know you must constantly police yourself and that your self control and judgement are often the only safety valves available during a scene. Do you always feel like you've never truly let go, always held something back? Does it give you a nagging sense of unfulfillment or constraint? All PC consent issues aside, have you ever had the urge to just use someone like that, to really hurt them and treat them with total disregard? How do you govern that part of yourself? Is it always there, daring you, mocking your SSC persona?

Wow, that was a ramble and a half. I'm really interested in all this though. Sorry if I'm hijacking RJ, got a bit over-enthusiastic.

*shrug*
For what it's worth..... And at the risk of sounding a bit like Yoda.
*sigh*
You have to be able to accept what you are...Before you can control it...
Otherwise...You are just supressing it.... And that doesn't work...
'Cause it will slip the leash at the most inconvenient moments.

 

[liberatedslave]

*shrug*
For what it's worth..... And at the risk of sounding a bit like Yoda.
*sigh*
You have to be able to accept what you are...Before you can control it...
Otherwise...You are just supressing it.... And that doesn't work...
'Cause it will slip the leash at the most inconvenient moments.

Do you still worry that it might slip the leash or do you think that with a certain amount of knowledge and experience you can trust yourself enough that it won't.

It's probably a badly phrased question. Hope you understand what I mean.

 

[Etoile]

Do you still worry that it might slip the leash or do you think that with a certain amount of knowledge and experience you can trust yourself enough that it won't.

It's probably a badly phrased question. Hope you understand what I mean.

Yes, knowledge and experience are what make it possible to trust yourself. However, it is not knowledge of BDSM, or experience with BDSM. It is self-knowledge, and experience with yourself and how you react to things. New doms, particularly young ones, very commonly experience those same fears. With time, though, it's possible to trust yourself because you have seen how you respond and react.

 

[callinectes]

I wonder what happened to NeonFlux? I always loved reading her posts. Haven't seen RJ in a while either.

 

[callinectes]

LiberatedSlave,

What a great post..you and your Sir obviously have laid the foundation for communicative, trusting relationship. I think you both handled the situation beautifully.

 

[Etoile]

I wonder what happened to NeonFlux? I always loved reading her posts. Haven't seen RJ in a while either.

RJ's been around a couple of times but we haven't seen NeonFlux since about Xmas. I miss her too, she was really awesome. I hope she comes back.