KeithD
Virgin
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2012
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That you just keep in your drawer, right?Only in my writing!
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That you just keep in your drawer, right?Only in my writing!
Couldn’t agree more!*Sigh* For the three-millionth time.
Actual print does not/never has used two spaces after terminal punctuation. It uses one space plus a small slice of leading. The typewriter couldn't handle this. So, for typing, during the typewriter era that ended two decades ago, two spaces were used. Even during the typewriter era, though, actual printing never used two spaces.
The two spaces were a temporary fix during the rather short-lived typewriter era and even then only for typing. The typewriter era ended two decades ago. The computer manages the necessary adjustments when you provide only onr space. If you provide two spaces on the computer, you're actually making even more white space after terminal punctuation than the typewriter two-space operation provides.
Your continuing edits are really making me question my life choices! I may have to try it out. But my eye enjoys that bit of space when I'm working. I could always do a replace at the end. I guess it would matter more for something going elsewhere, since it doesn't affect the final product here and I'm sure the trimming is automatic.I'm quite sure Lit reduces terminal punctuation to the proper one space (with the system adding that skosh bit of leading). It's something their computer system is going to correct automatically. So, all that extra key tapping by the author was useless work. It takes almost no time at all to make that habit adjustment permanently.
I still occasionally get called in by an academic press to help clean up copy before it goes into the publishing system. When an author has sent in copy with two spaces after terminal punctuation, that requires one whole computer pass through the copy to get rid of them and then awareness later that they just might have tapped three times occasionally. No, this doesn't take long, but it's a tell in publishing houses of a sloppy or uninformed author who is going to require more irritating scrutiny across the board than savvy authors will. Everyone in the publishing house puts the house's authors in one of two categories on this. Guess who they treat better and with less scrutiny.
Every wonder how Laurel decides which author's works to almost knee-jerk post in a uniform two days and who to hold for a week for deeper scrutiny?
Did you read my last posting? Maybe Laurel does see such things as the obsolete (and stubborn?) publishing mistakes the authors here fall into, like the archaic use of terminal spacing(?) Maybe it's just like not fully trusting authors who skirt the underage issue and thus giving them extra scrutiny. Maybe she does have a mental list of authors who need extra scrutiny and ones who don't. Maybe if/when you are tempted to ask why posting of your stories is taking longer for you than for some of the others of us, you really don't have to ask why. Maybe Laurel sees reason not to have you on the expedite list that involves technical presentation (e.g., attempts to use jazzy, individualistic formatting) rather than content. Just maybe.Your continuing edits are really making me question my life choices! I may have to try it out. But my eye enjoys that bit of space when I'm working. I could always do a replace at the end. I guess it would matter more for something going elsewhere, since it doesn't affect the final product here and I'm sure the trimming is automatic.
I've noticed that italics no gap in work that uses italics often. Double space would be the most obvious solution. Use what works.Speaking of terminal punctuation and spacing...I have found I need to put in two spaces before and after any italics or otherwise the italics runs right into the normal font. Any other suggestions besides using italics less often, which I am trying to do?
Also, italics disappears after a 'carriage return' and needs to be indicated for each individual paragraph if multiple paragraphs are to have italics print.
Difference between having a real editor and a beta reader? Mainly a difference in the credence that should be accorded to the suggestions of the two. Editors should be giving trained guidance, trained above all else in trying to preserve as much of the author in a work as possible but also having some authority in what they are questioning or suggesting. A beta reader should just be taken at the level of "is this spelled right?" or "I don't get what is being said here" or "Didn't you kill her two pages earlier? Why's she walking around now?" The difference between seeing problems and having a trained solution to problems.
When a writer, especially one without much writing experience, looks at a beta reader and sees an editor, they already are half way down a rathole of misdirection and damage to their work. When they clearly see mainly another set of eyes in review, they can stay on the main path. When a beta reader sells themselves as an editor, you are in a whole mound of kimchee. (And that, essentially, is what the Web site is selling here in the form of the volunteer "editor" program.)
You most likely didn't have a proofreader. The sole function of a proofreader is to compare an old (dead) copy version with a new (live) copy version of the work and note the exact differences between the two. A proofreader doesn't do anything with misspellings or grammar mistakes if they are the same between the two versions.
Yes, if you have a version of diff that can compare the new version with an old version that only exists in printed hardcopy, and which can compare the author's original Word or LaTeX version with the PDF'ed version after the layout team have changed the pagination, moved the text around to fit in images, etc. etc.So a proofreader is the same as diff? We've had diff for quite a while.
If you're writing for HTML, double spaces will disappear anyway when it displays on screen. You have to go out of your way to write a double space that will actually be visible to the reader.*Sigh* For the three-millionth time.
Actual print does not/never has used two spaces after terminal punctuation. It uses one space plus a small slice of leading. The typewriter couldn't handle this. So, for typing, during the typewriter era that ended two decades ago, two spaces were used. Even during the typewriter era, though, actual printing never used two spaces.
The two spaces were a temporary fix during the rather short-lived typewriter era and even then only for typing. The typewriter era ended two decades ago. The computer manages the necessary adjustments when you provide only onr space. If you provide two spaces on the computer, you're actually making even more white space after terminal punctuation than the typewriter two-space operation provides.
We now call that function beta reading.
I don’t have the patienceI’ve never had an editor, but a couple of compassionate young ladies did some beta-reading for me. Another option, which I also use, is to put it away for a week or more and then go back to it.
Web pages strip out extra white space when they display text. That's a standard part of html rendering.I like using double spaces! I'm not sure they are preserved in the published version on lit though, seems like it plays fast and loose with whitespace.
Well, my anecdote is that I double space and my stories average two days to post, so that theory is total bullshit.I'm quite sure Lit reduces terminal punctuation to the proper one space (with the system adding that skosh bit of leading). It's something their computer system is going to correct automatically. So, all that extra key tapping by the author was useless work. It takes almost no time at all to make that habit adjustment permanently.
I still occasionally get called in by an academic press to help clean up copy before it goes into the publishing system. When an author has sent in copy with two spaces after terminal punctuation, that requires one whole computer pass through the copy to get rid of them and then awareness later that they just might have tapped three times occasionally. No, this doesn't take long, but it's a tell in publishing houses of a sloppy or uninformed author who is going to require more irritating scrutiny across the board than savvy authors will. Everyone in the publishing house puts the house's authors in one of two categories on this. Guess who they treat better and with less scrutiny.
Ever wonder how Laurel decides which author's works to almost knee-jerk post in a uniform two days and who to hold for a week for deeper scrutiny? Go back through the thrice-weekly threads on "How long are your stories taking to post?" and check my almost uniform "still just two days" responses. There's a reason for that--if you want the quicker posting times (It's a generic "you" here; this isn't pointing Emily out just because she's been quoted).
Use the <i></i> tags to be sure that italics are where you want them, rather than relying on a quirk of spacing to do it.Speaking of terminal punctuation and spacing...I have found I need to put in two spaces before and after any italics or otherwise the italics runs right into the normal font. Any other suggestions besides using italics less often, which I am trying to do?
Also, italics disappears after a 'carriage return' and needs to be indicated for each individual paragraph if multiple paragraphs are to have italics print.
It's you and me with the spaces, Dave. Well, I'm giving it a go with singles today. There's... been a lot of ctrl-H-ing.Use the <i></i> tags to be sure that italics are where you want them, rather than relying on a quirk of spacing to do it.
If you're writing for HTML, double spaces will disappear anyway when it displays on screen. You have to go out of your way to write a double space that will actually be visible to the reader.
Well, no it won't, not only even if you're writing on a computer.
I've just come from receiving a manuscript electronically in Word--with double spaces after terminal punctuation.
That's sort of irrelevant to the point. The point is that the typewriter era is over. Publishing doesn't put two spaces after terminal punctuation. When you do you're wasting time and creating a mistake. It's not at all hard to learn to do it right and save everyone extra work and irritation.
I actually search and replace double spaces with single spaces in my drafts now, it somehow looks tidier. I also turn on the tilde, and go find the unnecessary spaces at the end of sentences. It's an uneccesary, perfectionist thing, but so what? It's probably a comfort thing, the literary equivalent of sucking a nipple.Well, my anecdote is that I double space and my stories average two days to post, so that theory is total bullshit.
Double spacing is not an indication of anything other than when you learned to type. It's a style element, not a law of punctuation.
The issue's not about italics being in the wrong place, it's that italics (and bold) sometimes eat the spaces at transition points. For instance, from AwkwardMD's Sidechain:Use the <i></i> tags to be sure that italics are where you want them, rather than relying on a quirk of spacing to do it.
Well, frankly, I don't really care what "it's all about me" behavior you feel the need to stick to.Well, my anecdote is that I double space and my stories average two days to post, so that theory is total bullshit.
Double spacing is not an indication of anything other than when you learned to type. It's a style element, not a law of punctuation.