Fucking Political fucking thread

[SeaCat]

I'm conflicted over the South right now, cd. Setting aside motive, I finally understand the appeal of seceding from the union.

She' (If I may call you that.)

While the idea of seceding from the union is tempting at times, I wouldn't do it. That would just mean they have won.

Cloudy,
I'm as sick of it as you are, if not more and I wasn't even born in the south. (Funny story: I had a lady in front of me in Publix about a year ago. She was vocaly struggling with all of the "Damn Yankees" moving to Florida and spoiling it for all of the true Floridians like her. (Said in a thick New Yawk accent.) She then left the store and climbed into her Mercedes with the New York plates.)

As for bigoted rednecks, well I'm a redneck and I'm truly bigoted, against ignorance.

Cat

 

[minsue]

Ever been to the south Pure?

Ed

Just when I think I can't like and respect you more, you post like this.

Succinct and perfect.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Yep, posted my thoughts on it there, so I'm not going to go into it again.

All I will say this time is that it's time people realized how bigoted they really are when they blame the ills of the whole country on one specific region...

You mean like "Taxachusetts"?
Or, "...In Texas, we call that 'walking'"?

Regionialism was (and is) a Republican issue, and the GOP campaigns fanned the flames. That's how they got out their voters: by appealing to a whole lot of "this is MY issue, and fuck everyone else!" resentment. There was no talk of shared sacrifice, of national unity, of compromise for the common good of all. What played for those voters was, "You're either with us, or against us."

The humor of the piece that started the thread lies in the conceit that the writer decides, "If you want it that way, I choose against you!" The writer then goes on an expletive-heavy rant which exposes facts that, taken as a whole, lead to the inevitable conclusion that the South, with the consistent prodding of the GOP, has been behaving like a spoiled child. It thinks that it's entitled to all the Federal largesse, without having to shoulder any responsibility or accomodation to the rest of the nation. Thus, the irony that the very arguments used by that faction would, if taken seriously, result in a diminution of its members quality of life. And that would be just desserts, in the writer's point of view.

Very clever, I think.

 

[cloudy]

You mean like "Taxachusetts"?
Or, "...In Texas, we call that 'walking'"?

Regionialism was (and is) a Republican issue, and the GOP campaigns fanned the flames. That's how they got out their voters: by appealing to a whole lot of "this is MY issue, and fuck everyone else!" resentment. There was no talk of shared sacrifice, of national unity, of compromise for the common good of all. What played for those voters was, "You're either with us, or against us."

The humor of the piece that started the thread lies in the conceit that the writer decides, "If you want it that way, I choose against you!" The writer then goes on an expletive-heavy rant which exposes facts that, taken as a whole, lead to the inevitable conclusion that the South, with the consistent prodding of the GOP, has been behaving like a spoiled child. It thinks that it's entitled to all the Federal largesse, without having to shoulder any responsibility or accomodation to the rest of the nation. Thus, the irony that the very arguments used by that faction would, if taken seriously, result in a diminution of its members quality of life. And that would be just desserts, in the writer's point of view.

Very clever, I think.

 

[Edward Teach]

You mean like "Taxachusetts"?
Or, "...In Texas, we call that 'walking'"?

Very clever, I think.

Yeah, kinda like Jeff Foxworthy.

Ed

 

[sweetnpetite]

It won't win any votes- but fuck if it isn't funny!

 

[rgraham666]

The U.S. has always been a heavily regionalized country. Playing one faction against the other has been a standard ploy since the beginning.

Many people have forgotten about this. The Fifty Years War papered over this fact. The Fifty Years War is the time between Pearl Harbor and the end of The First Gulf War.

As long as America had external enemies capable of destroying it, they were reasonably united.

That is no longer the case, so you are turning on one another once again.

 

[cloudy]

It won't win any votes- but fuck if it isn't funny!

Yeah, it's real funny, especially if you don't live in the south, or have family here.....and it's especially funny if you've never even been here. Most of the time I respect what you have to say, Sweet, but not this time.

Here's what I had to say about the same "Fuck the South" rant when it was posted in the GB a day or so ago:

Post 1

I despise stereotypes of any kind, and just because someone lives in the south, it doesn't mean they're an uneducated redneck. Unless you live in this area, you don't realize how pervasive that shit is.

According to the stereotypes, I should be a drunk injun, living on welfare on a reservation, in a trailer with a junky car in the yard and my refridgerater on the porch, and be barefoot and pregnant.

Not hardly.

Post 2

I've lived all over the country, but the last chunk of time has been in the southeast.

I was born in Massachusetts.

I was raised in California....Los Angeles and Santa Barbara.

I went to college in Tennessee.

Since then I've lived in California, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, briefly in Denmark, and now in Alabama. I'm familiar with a lot of the different stereotypes that some people seem to hold near and dear. To top it off, I'm also part Cherokee - enough that I identify strongly with that part of my heritage. My grandmother was full-blooded.

Out on the west coast I constantly ran into the stereotype of the "southern redneck." People that had never been anywhere near any of the southeastern states had some vision of the people that live here as characters out of Deliverance, complete with the requisite banjo playing in the background. They couldn't comprehend that it was very like the rest of the country:

* people have real jobs here, that they drive to, and not in a buggy
* there are colleges and universities here, well-funded and well-attended
* we listen to music other than country
* we don't drive cars that look like the General Lee from the Dukes of Hazard, nor does my wardrobe consist solely of numerous pairs of cut-off jeans, and shirts I can tie directly under my boobs
* I own shoes, and even wear them

Now, for the other side of things. The stereotypes that people here hold about the west coast are just as bad:

* Hollywood is approximately 9 square miles - the rest of California bears no resemblence to Hollywood.
* people have real jobs, that they drive to, and not necessarily in a convertible
* not every woman in California is blonde, or has had a boob job
* there are universities, and they are well-funded and well-attended, and people major in subjects other than film
* there is more to California than just the southern part

There are more, but it's late, and I'm tired. The stereotypes about Natives are just as insidious, and just as demeaning, more so, actually. I won't list them here, as I'm sure you've heard most of them. And, to be fair, the same thing goes on on the opposite side of the fence, as well. Nothing is ever completely one-sided.

The reason I reacted so strongly to the very first post in this thread is simply because I know how wrong all those stereotypes are, and I've also seen how it can affect people. To be honest, I'm still amazed sometimes at the ignorance that still exists, in a time when most should be a little more enlightened. And, rants like that first post just extend the time that those stereotypes exist, and enable those who do hold them dear to feel that their feelings are justified, and right.

As someone said earlier in this same thread, it's divisive, and only perpetuates the myths and the racism that cause so many people so much pain.

End of rant.

 

[cjh]

damn cloudy. you got stuck in the thread.

either you understand the magic of the south, or you don't. whenever i host out of state guests, though, they always return. despite the fact that a whole county of self-satisfied condescending holy-rollers live just down the road. . . .

(yeah, i know, my own intolerance is surfacing.)

 

[sweetnpetite]

You mean like "Taxachusetts"?
Or, "...In Texas, we call that 'walking'"?

Regionialism was (and is) a Republican issue, and the GOP campaigns fanned the flames. That's how they got out their voters: by appealing to a whole lot of "this is MY issue, and fuck everyone else!" resentment. There was no talk of shared sacrifice, of national unity, of compromise for the common good of all. What played for those voters was, "You're either with us, or against us."

The humor of the piece that started the thread lies in the conceit that the writer decides, "If you want it that way, I choose against you!" The writer then goes on an expletive-heavy rant which exposes facts that, taken as a whole, lead to the inevitable conclusion that the South, with the consistent prodding of the GOP, has been behaving like a spoiled child. It thinks that it's entitled to all the Federal largesse, without having to shoulder any responsibility or accomodation to the rest of the nation. Thus, the irony that the very arguments used by that faction would, if taken seriously, result in a diminution of its members quality of life. And that would be just desserts, in the writer's point of view.

Very clever, I think.

Sorry cloudy, but I gotta agree with this.

You are taking the article too literally when it's written ironicly. Your missing the point.

 

[cloudy]

Sorry cloudy, but I gotta agree with this.

You are taking the article too literally when it's written ironicly. Your missing the point.

No, I'm not.

My point is that its very fashionable and trendy to blame the south. That article just points out to me that ignorance is everywhere, and most people love buying into shit like that, even people that I would otherwise assume are intelligent.

It's not funny, it's just ignorant and making sure that stereotypes never go away. I suppose it would be different if I started bashing northerners, too.

Don't get me started.

 

[Edward Teach]

Sorry cloudy, but I gotta agree with this.

You are taking the article too literally when it's written ironicly. Your missing the point.

Sweet, yes the article is funny and yes it is irony but it perpetuates a stereotype.

Just because something is funny or has a point doesn't justify its existence.

Amos and Andy was funny but it perpetuated a racial stereotype and was removed from the air. Would you defend that series based upon the fact that it was funny?


Ed

 

[sweetnpetite]

I despise stereotypes of any kind, and just because someone lives in the south, it doesn't mean they're an uneducated redneck. Unless you live in this area, you don't realize how pervasive that shit is.

According to the stereotypes, I should be a drunk injun, living on welfare on a reservation, in a trailer with a junky car in the yard and my refridgerater on the porch, and be barefoot and pregnant.

Not hardly.

I guess if you don't live in the north, you don't realize how pervasive the stereotypes against *us* are, which is what the writer of this article was reacting to.

You defend yourself politely up to a point, but eventually you just tire of being nice and throw the same crap back that's being thrown at you. That is what the writer is doing.

And he is being facetious. He doesn't believe the stereotype, he's using it to lash out, becuase he's tired of the stereotypes and negative lables being thrown his own way.

As an example- I have heavy friends, and I don't look down on them because they are bigger than me. And I don't call them names or tease them about there weight or attempt to exclude them or any other rude behavior. In fact, I really don't think of it as much of a factor in our friendship. HOWEVER when they start teasing me and calling me the 'skinny bitch' weather all in fun or not, they have opened the door, and I will not shrink back out of politeness. A mixed friend of mine was ragging about me for being so pale- she told me to get some color. I shot back, 'get some white'- well color me bigoted! She was both black and white, and claimed it when it suited her. I wasn't implying that I believed all the stereotypes about black people. I was just sassing off because she had implied that there was something wrong with *my* skintone and I gave it back. Sometimes your mad, and you don't really care who you offend. Dave Chapelle is offensive as all hell, but he's funny. Not everyone thinks so, but a lot of people do. He doesn't believe all of the stereotypes he expliots for his humour or to make his point. But I think he does believe in his point.

I haven't even read the rest of your post. So I'll go do that now.

Rest assured, I don't fit into the 'liberal elite' stereotype either. And that's why the article is funny for me, because as a liberal I'm quite sick of hearing about this stuck up liberal elite that I'm supposedly a part of.

 

[cloudy]

You defend yourself politely up to a point, but eventually you just tire of being nice and throw the same crap back that's being thrown at you. That is what the writer is doing.

Funny, I've not seen a damn thing stereotyping the north, and if it's there, it would be here in the south.

All I've seen lately is self-righteous people slinging labels like "redneck" and "ignorant" at the people who live in the south, and to be honest, I'm sick to death of it.

It's not funny, it won't ever be funny, and it only makes things worse.

Feel better than folks down here, that's fine, but also realize that those slinging the labels are just as ignorant as they claim the south to be.

 

[Huckleman2000]

My point is that its very fashionable and trendy to blame the south. ...
I suppose it would be different if I started bashing northerners, too.

Don't get me started.

You haven't started bashing northerners, but our President sure did! That's where the anger comes from, and humor usually has a foundation in anger.

Personally, I LOVE southern accents, and the formal way of speaking many southerners adopt, and the cut-the-crap contrast that they are able to use. Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, John Edwards, Ross Perot, Ann Richards... None of them are stupid people, quite the contrary. But damned if they didn't use their accents to their own advantage. When you've been put in your place (verbally) by a southerner, you generally stay put.

Bush's West Texas Twang comes and goes, depending on his audience. In contrast, Gore's studiously adopted Midwest drone, while erasing any regionality from his speech, also erased any color or interest. Kerry's disinterested upper-class monotone also removed any interest from his speech. contrast that with the Kennedy accent, or Mario Cuomo's power-goomba rhythms. Accents carry a lot of pre-conceived baggage, like it or not.

I don't know that it's fashionable or trendy to blame the South - frankly, they've been written off for years by progressives. Sorry if this is news. What is the rest of the country to make of states that vote on the basis of John McCain's mixed-race child, or ads that equate triple-amputee Vet Max Cleland with Bin Laden? This article just adopts the stance that people perceive of the South, and turns it back on them.

No one seriously believes that ALL Southerners are one type of asshole. I'm sure there are all sorts of subtle gradations.

Stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes unless there was some basis in fact, however unfair or narrow-minded that is. I understand that many voters in the red states believe in their issues passionately, and believe they are doing the best thing they can for their country. But the fact is, they are a small minority that has been pandered to and riled up by a cynical Republican election machine. In a 51/49 nation, the notion that they have a mandate is ludicrous. They vote and vote and vote GOP, and the party will never be able to deliver, because not that many people agree with them. There are more people in 5 square blue-state blocks than there are in 50 square red-state miles.

I don't equate you with your neighbors. But you live in a neighborhood that is pretty much incomprehensible to half the country, and can't seem to justify their position without resorting to the language of faith, whether that means god or the adage of not changing horses in mid-stream.

And that's prime fodder for ridicule.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Funny, I've not seen a damn thing stereotyping the north, and if it's there, it would be here in the south.

All I've seen lately is self-righteous people slinging labels like "redneck" and "ignorant" at the people who live in the south, and to be honest, I'm sick to death of it.

It's not funny, it won't ever be funny, and it only makes things worse.

Feel better than folks down here, that's fine, but also realize that those slinging the labels are just as ignorant as they claim the south to be.

Really, you haven't heard the phrase the 'liberal elite' and how they/we are out of touch with mainstream America? about how people on the coast think they are so much better than the good honest hardworking folks in rural America. About how we want to take all of *your* money to fund *our* social programs. About how we have no God, no morality, no values. About how we are destroying this country (as if we aren't a part of it) with our dangerous progressive pro-gay anti-god agenda? About our distain and snobbery toward those living in the 'so called fly over states.'

It could be because you are not listening to the Conservitive Media and Political Pundants that I hear saying these things on a daily basis.

And that thing about "so-called-fly-over-states"- I've never heard anyone actually say that except for the conservative talk show hosts who claim that it's how we northern snobs refer to good old middle America. It just aint so. I've never heard it before *they started accusing 'us' of using it.

 

[SeaCat]

Feel better than folks down here, that's fine, but also realize that those slinging the labels are just as ignorant as they claim the south to be.

Cloudy,

Have you ever heard the quote "Ignorance is bliss"? If these people weren't so sad, and wrapped up in their convictions that they ARE better than those they ridicule they would be funny.

Cat

 

[cloudy]

You haven't started bashing northerners, but our President sure did! That's where the anger comes from, and humor usually has a foundation in anger.

No, and I won't. I don't believe it's productive to put any type of label on people, no matter what that label is.

Personally, I LOVE southern accents, and the formal way of speaking many southerners adopt, and the cut-the-crap contrast that they are able to use. Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, John Edwards, Ross Perot, Ann Richards... None of them are stupid people, quite the contrary. But damned if they didn't use their accents to their own advantage. When you've been put in your place (verbally) by a southerner, you generally stay put.

Gotta agree with you here. For some reason, a verbal put-down in a southern accent is just worse, but I couldn't tell you why. Maybe it's the polite way it's phrased, but a lot of times it takes people a few minutes to realize what's actually been said.

I don't equate you with your neighbors. But you live in a neighborhood that is pretty much incomprehensible to half the country, and can't seem to justify their position without resorting to the language of faith, whether that means god or the adage of not changing horses in mid-stream.

But, see, this is exactly the point I'm making. Everyone assumes that everyone in the south believes exactly the same things, and it couldn't be further from the truth. It bothers me immensely to see a whole group of people lumped in together with a label thrown on them that's based more on old stereotypes than anything else. The majority of people bashing the south as ignorant rednecks have never even set foot south of the Mason-Dixon line. A lot of people here don't like Bush any more than anyone else does....they just didn't care for Kerry either. I didn't vote for either one of them, and know plenty that did the same. You know what they say about assumptions.....

And that's prime fodder for ridicule.

Yes, it is......and the picture of the hillbilly with a straw in his mouth and holes in his "overhauls" is never far from most people's minds when they hear a southern accent. That's exactly what bothers me.

Thank you, though, for a thoughtful reply instead of just jumping on the band wagon. I do appreciate it.

 

[cloudy]

Really, you haven't heard the phrase the 'liberal elite' and how they/we are out of touch with mainstream America? about how people on the coast think they are so much better than the good honest hardworking folks in rural America. About how we want to take all of *your* money to fund *our* social programs. About how we have no God, no morality, no values. About how we are destroying this country (as if we aren't a part of it) with our dangerous progressive pro-gay anti-god agenda? About our distain and snobbery toward those living in the 'so called fly over states.'

It could be because you are not listening to the Conservitive Media and Political Pundants that I hear saying these things on a daily basis.

And that thing about "so-called-fly-over-states"- I've never heard anyone actually say that except for the conservative talk show hosts who claim that it's how we northern snobs refer to good old middle America. It just aint so. I've never heard it before *they started accusing 'us' of using it.

No, I haven't, but then, I pay little attention to propaganda.

If what you say is true, then what makes either side better than the other? Your whole post just proves my point perfectly. It's sarcastic and righteous about being "wronged."

Have you ever spent any time in the south? Ever been down here anywhere other than Florida?

If not, then why are you so sure in your opinions about the south?

I've lived other places besides here, and I've seen the stereotypes that all areas hold for those in other regions. My whole point is that it's wrong, and by yucking it up about articles like that cited, you're only perpetuating the biases, and not helping a damn thing.

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy,

Have you ever heard the quote "Ignorance is bliss"? If these people weren't so sad, and wrapped up in their convictions that they ARE better than those they ridicule they would be funny.

Cat

 

[Edward Teach]

You haven't started bashing northerners, but our President sure did! That's where the anger comes from, and humor usually has a foundation in anger.

Personally, I LOVE southern accents, and the formal way of speaking many southerners adopt, and the cut-the-crap contrast that they are able to use. Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, John Edwards, Ross Perot, Ann Richards... None of them are stupid people, quite the contrary. But damned if they didn't use their accents to their own advantage. When you've been put in your place (verbally) by a southerner, you generally stay put.

Bush's West Texas Twang comes and goes, depending on his audience. In contrast, Gore's studiously adopted Midwest drone, while erasing any regionality from his speech, also erased any color or interest. Kerry's disinterested upper-class monotone also removed any interest from his speech. contrast that with the Kennedy accent, or Mario Cuomo's power-goomba rhythms. Accents carry a lot of pre-conceived baggage, like it or not.

I don't know that it's fashionable or trendy to blame the South - frankly, they've been written off for years by progressives. Sorry if this is news. What is the rest of the country to make of states that vote on the basis of John McCain's mixed-race child, or ads that equate triple-amputee Vet Max Cleland with Bin Laden? This article just adopts the stance that people perceive of the South, and turns it back on them.

No one seriously believes that ALL Southerners are one type of asshole. I'm sure there are all sorts of subtle gradations.

Stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes unless there was some basis in fact, however unfair or narrow-minded that is. I understand that many voters in the red states believe in their issues passionately, and believe they are doing the best thing they can for their country. But the fact is, they are a small minority that has been pandered to and riled up by a cynical Republican election machine. In a 51/49 nation, the notion that they have a mandate is ludicrous. They vote and vote and vote GOP, and the party will never be able to deliver, because not that many people agree with them. There are more people in 5 square blue-state blocks than there are in 50 square red-state miles.

I don't equate you with your neighbors. But you live in a neighborhood that is pretty much incomprehensible to half the country, and can't seem to justify their position without resorting to the language of faith, whether that means god or the adage of not changing horses in mid-stream.

And that's prime fodder for ridicule.

Huck, please read what you just posted.

Ed

 

[Huckleman2000]

Huck, please read what you just posted.

Ed

I knew what I meant. What did I say?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Funny, I've not seen a damn thing stereotyping the north, and if it's there, it would be here in the south.

]

Sorry, i couldn't get to the thread because my toddler hijacked the computer from me.

You may be suprised to know that I've been subject to some of the *exact* same stereotypes as you, although I moved south (within my state.) Because I lived in a smaller town known for it's lakes, trees and parks, I am considered by many to be a hick and a red-neck as well. It's assumed that growing up I went cow-tipping for fun, that everybody in my hometown listens to country music and doesn't like minorities- especially blacks. drives a pick-up truck, ect. ect. marries their cousins...

Yeah, people I went to HS school w/ listne to country music. That started with Garth Brooks- before that it was completely uncool and universaly reviled.

I don't have any accent different from anyone else here, but i have been teased for things like my pronunciation of the word 'root' and refering to a nieghbor as my 'neigbor lady' and other general small town ways.

On the other hand, I do love to go barefoot, I'm not afraid of mild weather, I say y'all, and when we were kids we used to crawl in and out the car through the winows, 'duke boys' style. Oh yeah and i saw a lot of hehaw cuz my dad was a big fan.

Personally, I have a harder time living down the stereotypes that I do* fit than those who don't.

I'm not really sure what my point is except this- by people here I'm stereotyped one way and by poeple in other places stereotype me completly opposite. Niether group have it quite right. I am neither an ignorant hick, nor an elite snob. Maybe that's why I can laugh at the rediculous characterization.

 

[cjh]

<snip> power-goomba rhythms.

*tucking away. awaiting ripe opportunity to use.*

 

[Edward Teach]

I knew what I meant. What did I say?

That smart Southerners can use their stupid sounding accents to their own advantage.

That a neutral Midwest accent is dull and boring.

That Kerry has a dull, boring upper class monotone.

That the rest of the country should look down on southern states for voting against McCain and Cleland over bigoted lies.
The rest of the country did almost exactly the same thing. I won't even attempt to go into all the bullshit they bought into. Ignorance and stupidity don't limit themselves to any one region. They are equal opportunity infectors and the whole country has contracted the disease.

That stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes if they didn't have some truth to them.
I met a man in a small northern Minn town once who had only seen a few black people. He asked me if "niggers really had big cocks like Finlanders." Is there some truth to those?

Then you told Cloudy that you don't equate her with her neighbors who are incomprehensible to half the country.Yet your description of her neighbors could be applied to the rest of the country.

Huck, I know you didn't mean it to be a bigoted post, but to me it sounds very bigoted. That is what stereotyping causes.

Ed