Hey, gun nuts!

[koalabear]

You think unless I hunt deer it's more gun than I need?

Slug barrels are best for hunting or shooting doors off the hinges.

 

[Peregrinator]

Slug barrels are best for hunting or shooting doors off the hinges.

Ah. What happens if you fire, say, bird or buck shot with a rifled barrel? Does it just spread faster like with the Judge or is it bad for the barrel somehow?

 

[koalabear]

Ah. What happens if you fire, say, bird or buck shot with a rifled barrel? Does it just spread faster like with the Judge or is it bad for the barrel somehow?

Never done it. Get an open choke if you want a wide pattern. I prefer a tight pattern.

 

[thør]

It's a 1950s era Remington 870, ironically enough. Dad called it his Wingmaster. The stock is roughed up some, but it works just fine. My grandpa and then my dad both used it for hunting pheasant every autumn. It brought home a fair number of squirrels and rabbits too, but mostly they were birders. My sister and I would go along and be the dogs. We'd scare up the pheasants and then run them down after they were shot.

It's really too big of a gun for me. Knocks me on my butt unless I plant myself really firm, and it takes a lot for me to haul it up quickly into shooting position so except for prowler intimidation, it's not too practical. But it makes a loud boom and I sure wouldn't want to be at the other end of it when it goes off.

And yes, the sound of somebody pumping in a shell would be enough by itself to turn most bad guys away. It actually gives me a bit of a thrill just to do that.

The 870 is a Wingmaster.

Get some light trap loads if you want to shoot it without punishment.

 

[Peregrinator]

So I decided that I'd go with the classic and time tested. I just ordered an 870 Express Combo (3") from my local gun shop. Now I have to wait a couple days for him to find one, and start thinking about accessorizing...

 

[Ishmael]

So I decided that I'd go with the classic and time tested. I just ordered an 870 Express Combo (3") from my local gun shop. Now I have to wait a couple days for him to find one, and start thinking about accessorizing...

Very reliable, time tested, action. You can make it into damn near anything you want with off the shelf stuff. With a little practice you can fire it accurately as fast as an auto-loader.

Ishmael

 

[koalabear]

Very reliable, time tested, action. You can make it into damn near anything you want with off the shelf stuff. With a little practice you can fire it accurately as fast as an auto-loader.

Ishmael

^^What he said.

 

[Peregrinator]

Very reliable, time tested, action. You can make it into damn near anything you want with off the shelf stuff. With a little practice you can fire it accurately as fast as an auto-loader.

Ishmael

Good to know your experience is the same as what I've been reading. I'm glad to have this forum full of gun types. I would never have been as confident in my choice. Thanks for the advice, everybody. When I get it next week I'll let y'all know how it goes...

 

[Ishmael]

Good to know your experience is the same as what I've been reading. I'm glad to have this forum full of gun types. I would never have been as confident in my choice. Thanks for the advice, everybody. When I get it next week I'll let y'all know how it goes...

Don't buy cheap addons when you get around to it. They work, but the fit is often iffy. You'll either find yourself learning parts of the gunsmiths trade, or paying a gunsmith to fix it for you. The good stuff will fit as it the factory shipped it that way.

The action comes apart with one knurled knob. The trigger housing group falls out with two pins and the stock comes off with one screw. The damn thing is incredibly simple, hence it's reliability.

Before I got carried away with all the 'doodads', I'd seriously start looking at "barrels for any occasion."

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

Don't buy cheap addons when you get around to it. They work, but the fit is often iffy. You'll either find yourself learning parts of the gunsmiths trade, or paying a gunsmith to fix it for you. The good stuff will fit as it the factory shipped it that way.

The action comes apart with one knurled knob. The trigger housing group falls out with two pins and the stock comes off with one screw. The damn thing is incredibly simple, hence it's reliability.

Before I got carried away with all the 'doodads', I'd seriously start looking at "barrels for any occasion."

Ishmael

That's where I was thinking of going. I'm not too worried about furniture until I learn to shoot it well and I know what I need. Got a suggestion as far as such a barrel? Also, is it bad for the rifled barrel to fire shot through it?

 

[Ishmael]

That's where I was thinking of going. I'm not too worried about furniture until I learn to shoot it well and I know what I need. Got a suggestion as far as such a barrel? Also, is it bad for the rifled barrel to fire shot through it?

The barrel choice depends on the purpose. Self defense requires a short barrel with an open choke. (Cylinder choke) Upland fowl is best hunted with either a modified or improved modified. Quail are best hunted with an improved cylinder.

Modern shells are all loaded in a plastic shot cup and as such the shot will never touch the rifling. So yes, you can shoot shot in a rifled barrel. However, the rifling will have an unwanted, and random, effect on patterning and as such is not a desirable combination.

Unless your purpose is to hunt large game (deer, etc.) do NOT buy a rifled barrel.

Starting out with a standard modified choke barrel will give you the maximum flexibility out of the gate. If you get a gun with a vent rib, make sure all of your subsequent barrel purchase are also vent ribbed. Conversely, if you go with a traditional barrel, same same.

Stay away from interchangeable chokes. In theory they look and sound great, in practice not so well. The sudden transition of the shot column has often unintended consequences. The gun may shoot well with one load and one choke and then require an entirely different load for a different choke. The shell manufacturers design their loadings to shoot with reliable consistency regardless of the choke, in standard barrels.

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

The barrel choice depends on the purpose. Self defense requires a short barrel with an open choke. (Cylinder choke) Upland fowl is best hunted with either a modified or improved modified. Quail are best hunted with an improved cylinder.

Modern shells are all loaded in a plastic shot cup and as such the shot will never touch the rifling. So yes, you can shoot shot in a rifled barrel. However, the rifling will have an unwanted, and random, effect on patterning and as such is not a desirable combination.

Unless your purpose is to hunt large game (deer, etc.) do NOT buy a rifled barrel.

Starting out with a standard modified choke barrel will give you the maximum flexibility out of the gate. If you get a gun with a vent rib, make sure all of your subsequent barrel purchase are also vent ribbed. Conversely, if you go with a traditional barrel, same same.

Stay away from interchangeable chokes. In theory they look and sound great, in practice not so well. The sudden transition of the shot column has often unintended consequences. The gun may shoot well with one load and one choke and then require an entirely different load for a different choke. The shell manufacturers design their loadings to shoot with reliable consistency regardless of the choke, in standard barrels.

Ishmael

Hrm. The package I ordered comes with "a 26-inch vent rib barrel with Modified Rem™ Choke tube and a 20-inch fully rifled, rear-sighted deer barrel."

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-combos.aspx

Is the reason for staying with or without the vent rib because of the change in sight picture? If so I won't bother with the rifled barrel unless I do decide to go shootin' moose or something, in which case I'll make sure I have plenty of range time with it first. Or is there some other more subtle reason not to switch from rib to no-rib?

 

[Ishmael]

Hrm. The package I ordered comes with "a 26-inch vent rib barrel with Modified Rem™ Choke tube and a 20-inch fully rifled, rear-sighted deer barrel."

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-combos.aspx

Is the reason for staying with or without the vent rib because of the change in sight picture? If so I won't bother with the rifled barrel unless I do decide to go shootin' moose or something, in which case I'll make sure I have plenty of range time with it first. Or is there some other more subtle reason not to switch from rib to no-rib?

The reason is consistency in what you see when you mount the gun.

I grew up with an 870. I can consistently hit 'three's' with a std. barrel. I can't hit shit with a vent rib. I've handed my gun to Olympic shooters who shoot with vent ribs and they can't hit shit either. Whatever you choose, get used to it and stick with it. Annie Oakley didn't have no steenking vent rib. Not to say that vent ribs are bad, merely to say that they aren't the end all, be all, of good shooting.

Your first investment should be a new barrel, and quickly. Shoot skeet or trap. I suggest trap to start off with. It will yield the most satisfaction the fastest. Graduate to skeet when you feel comfortable. The gun will become part of you, you won't even think about it anymore. And Mrs. Perg might even take to the sport.

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

The reason is consistency in what you see when you mount the gun.

I grew up with an 870. I can consistently hit 'three's' with a std. barrel. I can't hit shit with a vent rib. I've handed my gun to Olympic shooters who shoot with vent ribs and they can't hit shit either. Whatever you choose, get used to it and stick with it. Annie Oakley didn't have no steenking vent rib. Not to say that vent ribs are bad, merely to say that they aren't the end all, be all, of good shooting.

Your first investment should be a new barrel, and quickly. Shoot skeet or trap. I suggest trap to start off with. It will yield the most satisfaction the fastest. Graduate to skeet when you feel comfortable. The gun will become part of you, you won't even think about it anymore. And Mrs. Perg might even take to the sport.

Ishmael

A new vent rib, or a new std barrel? A big part of the reason I wanted the gun was to shoot trap. There's a bunch of old rich guys here who shoot twice a week all spring-summer-fall at our local club. My neighbor took me up last summer and it was a blast. I think Lady P might just really enjoy it indeed. She had fun with the .284 and was already hungry to get better with it.

 

[Ishmael]

A new vent rib, or a new std barrel? A big part of the reason I wanted the gun was to shoot trap. There's a bunch of old rich guys here who shoot twice a week all spring-summer-fall at our local club. My neighbor took me up last summer and it was a blast. I think Lady P might just really enjoy it indeed. She had fun with the .284 and was already hungry to get better with it.

Modified choke, 28" barrel. Vent or not is your choice. Whatever you choose, stick with it.

And it IS fun. And they'll help you all they can, it's a fraternity.

Ishmael

 

[Peregrinator]

Modified choke, 28" barrel. Vent or not is your choice. Whatever you choose, stick with it.

And it IS fun. And they'll help you all they can, it's a fraternity.

Ishmael

Oh, I see. Yeah, it's a great crowd. They were pretty supportive of me when I went. Of course I shot for shit, something like 15/25 or so average, but they all acted surprised that I did that well, which I thought was generous of them. I'd never shot a break-action trap gun before...

Got a pro/con for vent rib or std?

 

[Ishmael]

Oh, I see. Yeah, it's a great crowd. They were pretty supportive of me when I went. Of course I shot for shit, something like 15/25 or so average, but they all acted surprised that I did that well, which I thought was generous of them. I'd never shot a break-action trap gun before...

Got a pro/con for vent rib or std?

No pro/con. It's what YOU feel comfortable with. Vents have double beads and some seem to thing that make ALL the difference. As I said previously, Annie Oakley didn't have no steenking vent rib.

15/25 is credible for a noob. They weren't necessarily blowing smoke. I can do 25/25 back to the 21yd line with a 20ga. I have to switch to a 12 if I want to keep up with the big boys****** after that. On the other hand I've been shooting for years (decades) and I do my own reloading (quite necessary if you want to shoot 4 rounds, or more, a week).

And yeah, the Mrs. should take to it like a duck to water. Be prepared for his and hers shotguns, and 200 rounds/wk.

Ishmael

 

[stickwork]

What was that nice "little friend" that Tony wielded in Scarface?

 

[Peregrinator]

No pro/con. It's what YOU feel comfortable with. Vents have double beads and some seem to thing that make ALL the difference. As I said previously, Annie Oakley didn't have no steenking vent rib.

15/25 is credible for a noob. They weren't necessarily blowing smoke. I can do 25/25 back to the 21yd line with a 20ga. I have to switch to a 12 if I want to keep up with the big boys****** after that. On the other hand I've been shooting for years (decades) and I do my own reloading (quite necessary if you want to shoot 4 rounds, or more, a week).

And yeah, the Mrs. should take to it like a duck to water. Be prepared for his and hers shotguns, and 200 rounds/wk.

Ishmael

I'll have to try both. I suspect since I'm new I'll just wind up sticking with the vent rib, as that's what it comes with.

Good to know I'm a credible rookie. I've done pretty well with most things I've shot, I guess.

I've already thought about getting her a 20-ga. We'll see how she likes the 12.

What was that nice "little friend" that Tony wielded in Scarface?

M-16 with a grenade launcher, full auto capable, which I believe makes it an M16A1 or A2.

 

[Ishmael]

I'll have to try both. I suspect since I'm new I'll just wind up sticking with the vent rib, as that's what it comes with.

Good to know I'm a credible rookie. I've done pretty well with most things I've shot, I guess.

I've already thought about getting her a 20-ga. We'll see how she likes the 12.

Depends on her body weight. 115+ is in 12ga. range. Women that start with a 20 are reluctant to move up. (Yes, the 20 is really comfortable to shoot).

12ga. trap loads are relatively mild, field loads not so much so.

And Vat SUCKS at shotgunning. Truly makes me ponder his parentage. His first gun was an Ithaca 37. He shoots left handed and the Ithaca is a bottom ejector. You may have to think that through a bit.

His first 'big game' kill was a wild boar with a knife. And his first deer was with a Ruger #1 25-06 at 200 yds.

But he still sucks with a shotgun.

Ishmael

 

[stickwork]

Depends on her body weight. 115+ is in 12ga. range. Women that start with a 20 are reluctant to move up. (Yes, the 20 is really comfortable to shoot).

12ga. trap loads are relatively mild, field loads not so much so.

And Vat SUCKS at shotgunning. Truly makes me ponder his parentage. His first gun was an Ithaca 37. He shoots left handed and the Ithaca is a bottom ejector. You may have to think that through a bit.

His first 'big game' kill was a wild boar with a knife. And his first deer was with a Ruger #1 25-06 at 200 yds.

But he still sucks with a shotgun.

Ishmael

Who's VAT? Your wife?

 

[Ishmael]

Who's VAT? Your wife?

Yeah, we've been together for years now.

Ishmael

 

[junk_yard]

Ah. What happens if you fire, say, bird or buck shot with a rifled barrel? Does it just spread faster like with the Judge or is it bad for the barrel somehow?

Have you tried the Judge carbine? I was interested when I first saw it, but don't think I want to deal with the "screw in" tips when changing between the 45 and 410. Would make a great "house gun" with buckshot though... the rifled barrel does make it rather ineffective as a shotgun.

 

[sigh]

The 870 is a Wingmaster.

Get some light trap loads if you want to shoot it without punishment.

heh...guess that's why dad called it that.

Thanks for the advice on trap loads but I don't shoot for sport, dear. Outside of practice, if I ever have to fire that thing I expect somebody is going to be punished. That's why I still have it. (Well, that and the fact that the beat up stock is still silky smooth and I know that's in part from the oils in my dear dad's hands. He loved that gun. I don't think I could ever sell it.)

 

[Peregrinator]

Depends on her body weight. 115+ is in 12ga. range. Women that start with a 20 are reluctant to move up. (Yes, the 20 is really comfortable to shoot).

12ga. trap loads are relatively mild, field loads not so much so.

And Vat SUCKS at shotgunning. Truly makes me ponder his parentage. His first gun was an Ithaca 37. He shoots left handed and the Ithaca is a bottom ejector. You may have to think that through a bit.

His first 'big game' kill was a wild boar with a knife. And his first deer was with a Ruger #1 25-06 at 200 yds.

But he still sucks with a shotgun.

Ishmael

She's tough and a bit over 115, so I'll let her play with the 12. Like I said, she handled the .284 just fine.

Got his shotgun skills from mom's side, did he? I'm not getting the problem with a bottom ejector for a lefty. But I'm generally suspicious of people who shoot lefty anyway. I suspect them of harboring secret anti-peanut butter sympathies. I bet he eats almond butter, too.

Have you tried the Judge carbine? I was interested when I first saw it, but don't think I want to deal with the "screw in" tips when changing between the 45 and 410. Would make a great "house gun" with buckshot though... the rifled barrel does make it rather ineffective as a shotgun.

I was handling one in the store the other day, in fact. I wasn't too impressed with the quality. It's a neat idea, and would be a good home defense gun, I think, but it just felt sort of cheap and slapdash in my hands. It was also quite a bit lighter and smaller than I expected.

I don't understand why the Judge outsells the S&W Governor. The Gov is a little more expensive, but every review I've read makes it sound like a far superior gun. And it can take .45 ACP loads as well as LC. Just seems like a far better choice.