How do ya feel about God in the workplace?

[shereads]

I worked at an ad agency where, on the day before a major new business pitch, an agency-wide e-mail prayer went out, in which the Almighty was asked to help us win the account. As a fundamentalist agnostic, I can't help but think that God or gods ought to have better things to do than intervene in rivalries between football teams or advertising agencies. Especially during a week like that one, when the U.S. had just begun to bomb Afghanistan.

Nevertheless, I took the high road and resisted the urge to click "reply all" and say something that might reveal my lack of enthusiasm for invoking God's name in the pursuit of something so superficial.

No, I didn't. You silly thing!

I believe I said that prayer was an excellent idea, and I only hoped that the competing agency didn't sacrifice a goat.

We didn't get the account, which can only mean one of three things:

(a) God was concentrating on sports rivalries that week, not commerce.
(b) The competing agency did better work and/or promised the client Superbowl tickets
(c) God was so moved by our office prayer that He had planned to award us the account, until He read my reply.

I think "c" was the concensus among the group.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

Carefully file the offending material left on your desk in a folder which stays in your possession.

Then, ignore it.

If further messages are left, add then to the file, until it becomes actionable.

Then .....

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

God should be in every workplace.

Whoa. This thread is not going in that direction.

No one is advocating anything about any specific religion. We are just discussing the right or wrong aspect of anonymous co-workers unhelpfully foisting their own views upon you.

Wouldn't you be irritated if someone with completely different beliefs insisted on giving you information they knew would help "save your soul?"

I don't think that's what religion is supposed to be about.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by sweetsubsarahh
Whoa. This thread is not going in that direction.

No one is advocating anything about any specific religion. We are just discussing the right or wrong aspect of anonymous co-workers unhelpfully foisting their own views upon you.

Wouldn't you be irritated if someone with completely different beliefs insisted on giving you information they knew would help "save your soul?"

I don't think that's what religion is supposed to be about.

Hey, we're tolerating "God shouldn't be in the workplace" type comments... we should tolerate the other side. The thread already went in that direction.

 

[shereads]

Hey, we're tolerating "God shouldn't be in the workplace" type comments... we should tolerate the other side. The thread already went in that direction.

You'll be happy to know that middle managers typically function in corporate America as Siva, the god of destruction, and his consort, the goddess of disintegration...You did mean that everyone's choice of god(s) should be in the workplace, right?

Also: didn't the apostle Paul, or maybe Peter, instruct the faithful to pray in private?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by shereads
You'll be happy to know that middle managers typically function in corporate America as Siva, the god of destruction, and his consort, the goddess of disintegration...You did mean that everyone's choice of god(s) should be in the workplace, right?

Yes. That's accurate. A little religious tolerance, a little "not being sensitive", a lot of "no dissing"... religion is a part of a person, sometimes very deeply. I think people should be more free about who they are in a good workplace, some choose to think of it as a form of personal expression.

I never said "can", just "should".

Also: didn't the apostle Paul, or maybe Peter, instruct the faithful to pray in private?

Possibly. But Paul was some dude.

 

[cloudy]

Hey, we're tolerating "God shouldn't be in the workplace" type comments... we should tolerate the other side. The thread already went in that direction.

She makes a good point, Joe. If you're Christian, more power to ya, but it doesn't give you the right to try to force it on everyone around you at work. That's not only irritating, it's very disrespectful of others.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by cloudy
She makes a good point, Joe. If you're Christian, more power to ya, but it doesn't give you the right to try to force it on everyone around you at work. That's not only irritating, it's very disrespectful of others.

Wasn't my point.

 

[shereads]

On a serious note, Joe, prostheletizing may be okay in environments that allow a gracious exit by the targeted individual. School and work don't qualify. If you mean that God should be in the workplace through the inspiring goodness of god-fearing people, that would be lovely. I've worked with one born-again Christian whose demeanor made him an inspiration, and he never, ever spoke about his religious faith unless he was asked for advice.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by shereads
On a serious note, Joe, prostheletizing may be okay in environments that allow a gracious exit by the targeted individual. School and work don't qualify. If you mean that God should be in the workplace through the inspiring goodness of god-fearing people, that would be lovely. I've worked with one born-again Christian whose demeanor made him an inspiration, and he never, ever spoke about his religious faith unless he was asked for advice.

More like "the world should be in such a way that people can express themselves religiously in the workplace as easily as they would express themselves familialy with pictures of their kids". Nothing wrong with that.

 

[shereads]

Religion or the lack of it is too often used as a tool to select for or against workplace opportunities, from inclusion in the boss's inner circle to promotions and raises. "Voluntary" prayer breakfasts hosted by your boss are no more voluntary than prayer in the schools; in either case, a person or institution with the authority to influence a person's future puts that person in a position of having to say, "No, not me, thanks for asking but I don't share your beliefs." It's dangerous, and it's abused. The less personal intrusion into our lives, the safer for everyone.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

It's HELL when He is your supervisor!

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by shereads
Religion or the lack of it is too often used as a tool to select for or against workplace opportunities, from inclusion in the boss's inner circle to promotions and raises. "Voluntary" prayer breakfasts hosted by your boss are no more voluntary than prayer in the schools; in either case, a person or institution with the authority to influence a person's future puts that person in a position of having to say, "No, not me, thanks for asking but I don't share your beliefs." It's dangerous, and it's abused. The less personal intrusion into our lives, the safer for everyone.

Somewhat agreed. It could also bring about a more vibrant era of personal appreciation across cultures. More people are faithful than not (by a huge margin), that's a good place to start when solving a lot of other barriers.

 

[minsue]

Somewhat agreed. It could also bring about a more vibrant era of personal appreciation across cultures. More people are faithful than not (by a huge margin), that's a good place to start when solving a lot of other barriers.

Well, at least you didn't try the 'We all believe in the same god' line

- Mindy, marginalized

 

[shereads]

Joe, in a perfect world those barriers would be broken down and it would all be for the better. But in the business world, at least in my experience, barriers are necessary for everyone's protection. Job performance is only one of the factors by which you're judged in the workplace. Marital status, sexual preference, whether or not you have kids, and your skill or lack of it on the golf course are all in play. In my case, I don't like to drink because there's alcoholism in my family, plus I just hate feeling out of control among people who aren't truly friends, but only friendly co-workers. You'd be surprised how offended people become when you order a club soda - They react as if their drinking is being judged, when that isn't the case at all. Bringing religion into the mix is just an added complication in a mire of personal judgements that should be irrelevent, but rarely are.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

If it happens once, I would just forget about it. If you have someone that begins to hound you about religion tell them to stop or you'll report it. Religious overtones fall under the harassment guidelines. We went through this once at a place that I worked. A guy was preaching to everyone on a daily basis. He was a good guy and he meant well. but we got tired of it. Someone finally had enough and went to HR about it. HR told the guy to stop harassing others with his religious beliefs.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by shereads
Joe, in a perfect world those barriers would be broken down and it would all be for the better. But in the business world, at least in my experience, barriers are necessary for everyone's protection. Job performance is only one of the factors by which you're judged in the workplace. Marital status, sexual preference, whether or not you have kids, and your skill or lack of it on the golf course are all in play. In my case, I don't like to drink because there's alcoholism in my family, plus I just hate feeling out of control among people who aren't truly friends, but only friendly co-workers. You'd be surprised how offended people become when you order a club soda - They react as if their drinking is being judged, when that isn't the case at all. Bringing religion into the mix is just an added complication in a mire of personal judgements that should be irrelevent, but rarely are.

Which is fine and I agree. I'm not saying were living in the world that we should, just that we should live in the world that we're not.

 

[minsue]

I'm not saying were living in the world that we should, just that we should live in the world that we're not.

 

[shereads]

If it happens once, I would just forget about it. If you have someone that begins to hound you about religion tell them to stop or you'll report it. Religious overtones fall under the harassment guidelines. We went through this once at a place that I worked. A guy was preaching to everyone on a daily basis. He was a good guy and he meant well. but we got tired of it. Someone finally had enough and went to HR about it. HR told the guy to stop harassing others with his religious beliefs.

Harrassment can work to your advantage. We were told to complete some outdated "executive assessment" recommended by a consultant who happened to be our boss's unemployed friend, flown to Miami on a boondoggle and clearly unaware that we have a few privacy protections in place here in the USA. Among the questions was one that asked whether we considered ourselves "devout." Everyone expressed their dismay over the intrusion, but only yours truly - who knew the company was about to lay off another dozen people - complained directly to the boss and then filed a complaint with HR. Not just HR in Miami, but at our head office.

"Are you crazy? You'll get yourself fired."

Not likely. Making a justified complaint to HR - and being careful to add that you fear retribution - can be an effective way to postpone the inevitable at a failing company. I was the last person voted off of Survivor Island when they folded the tent. In fact, I outlasted the boss who hired the so-called consultant who asked whether I considered myself devout.

I'd like to think I was there at the end because I was indispensable, but the truth is they were scared. As they deserved to be.

Consult this, corporate America.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Take it in good stride, accept the positive intentions, discard it. No sense getting bent out of shape or organizing a militia or spending any effort on things that aren't very serious.

Oh my God, Joe (no pun intended) I totally agree with you. Best answer so far.

Score one for logic.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I agree with Joe on this. I am VERY anti-religion, but I would just let this one go. This time. If it's a one time thing, no big deal. If they continue this behavior, it's harassment. My advice would be to document the occurence for future reference in case of further incidents.

I have been discriminated against because of my lack of religion. I just decided to let it go and work elsewhere. I didn't get the job because I said at the interview that I wasn't a Christian. (They shouldn't have asked.) Turns out that everyone in the plant is a Christian, and if you're not they find a way to fire you, or just not hire you in the first place. I didn't make a big deal out of it because I really wouldn't enjoy working in that atmosphere anyway. But, if someone didn't give any of them a job they were applying for because they were Christians, the shit would really hit the fan.

Try working for Proctor and Gamble.

They donate gernerously to the Church of Satan!

 

[sweetnpetite]

Religion has no justifiable place anywhere.

All any religion offers is that if you pay money to a specialist (priest, rabbi, etc.) (s)he will intercede between you and an infinite, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being to give you a better life after you are dead.

The flaws are obvious. If God is omniscient (s)he already knows all about your problems and has therefore done whatever (s)he did about it (including nothing) without outside intervention. If God is not omniscient then (s)he is not God.

The aforementioned specialist just wants your money to live a life of comfort without doing any real work, in some cases a life of extreme luxury.

couldn't let this pass without saying-

This is incredibly flawed and narrowminded.

But a discussion of it doesn't belong on this particular thead.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: How do ya feel about God in the workplace?

As for the question in the title -- I have no problem with anyone in the workplace passively expressing their religious beliefs; as long as they have no problem with my expressing my lack of beliefs in the same way.

If a co-worker, or the company, wish to have copies of the Ten Commandments or a favorite prayer on the walls or their desk, or hang a rosary from their desk lamp, or even pray for patience before booting their computer.

I do have a problem with being proselytized at work or being required to participate in a religious observance -- i.e. morning prayers or the like. (I don't have a problem with voluntary morning prayers and will quietly respect the practice, but would choose NOT to participate.)

Ditto.

To me, this is the exact definition of 'religious freedom.'


.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I believe I said that prayer was an excellent idea, and I only hoped that the competing agency didn't sacrifice a goat.

LoL, good one. Too bad God got you back for it. You should have known better