How much disbelief can you suspend?

[RetroFan]

I subscribe to 'action and reaction' of characters. For example time travel is impossible. Body swaps are impossible. Reliving the same day over and over ad infinitum is impossible. But it hasn't stopped me enjoying these things in fictional works. Like musicals, you can suspend disbelief about people breaking into song and dance and enjoy the movie/stage show.

But throw in unrealistic reactions of characters in these events, and the illusion shatters very quickly. I haven't used time travel or groundhog day plots in my stories, but I have written a body swap story, where a gamer nerd swaps bodies with his bossy twin sister's dim-witted jock boyfriend. The brother is most dismayed by the body swap, and very worried about his sister's amorous advances towards her 'boyfriend'. But if the brother's immediate initial reaction was, 'Oh good, I've swapped bodies with my sister's boyfriend, now I can get into her pants and have my way with her' that isn't realistic at all, and so unbelievable that readers immediately drop out of the story.

 

[SimonDoom]

One of the keys with believability is to introduce your magic but then make the characters behave in realistic ways. The Game of Thrones series of books did a pretty good job of this. There was much about the world-building that made no sense at all, but the emphasis on characters that were gritty and selfish and realistic grounded the story amid all the hocus pocus.


This is harder with erotica, because (for me at least) erotica requires describing characters doing things that go up to or step over the edge, and that has to be done carefully to avoid losing the reader. And when I say the "reader," I mean me as a reader. As I write I periodically ask myself if what I'm writing as an author is too much bullshit for me to enjoy as a reader. If my answer is "no," then I just keep on going.

 

[RetroFan]

One of the keys with believability is to introduce your magic but then make the characters behave in realistic ways. The Game of Thrones series of books did a pretty good job of this. There was much about the world-building that made no sense at all, but the emphasis on characters that were gritty and selfish and realistic grounded the story amid all the hocus pocus.


This is harder with erotica, because (for me at least) erotica requires describing characters doing things that go up to or step over the edge, and that has to be done carefully to avoid losing the reader. And when I say the "reader," I mean me as a reader. As I write I periodically ask myself if what I'm writing as an author is too much bullshit for me to enjoy as a reader. If my answer is "no," then I just keep on going.

One trope I often use in my works (although I admittedly didn't know it was a trope until recently) is 'Magic or Mundane'. This allows a writer/creator to put certain events that veer towards and into fantasy into real-world stories but where the said events could have a real-world explanation and it is up to the reader/viewer to decide for themselves.

For example in my story 'Exploring With My Big Brother' half-brother and sister Tyler (40) and Matilda (18) go urban exploring at an eerie and creepy abandoned theme park at night, after Tyler's car breaks down. The way the car breaks down is odd, as are their phones not working, Matilda (who is the narrator) sees and hears strange things while they are looking around and upon leaving Matilda immediately starts menstruating, despite not being due for a period another five days.

So are the events supernatural or not? Tyler's car is very old and unreliable, and ne-er do well Tyler doesn't spend much on maintaining it (and doesn't have the cash anyway). The theme park site has been overgrown for years which would affect mobile phone reception in the area. Matilda is a sensible, responsible girl who knows that coming to an abandoned theme park at night is very dangerous plus she could wind up in trouble for trespassing; is what she sees and hears just her imagination, misinterpreting normal things she sees or hears or is there something other-worldly at play? Her older brother sees or hears nothing that she does. And it isn't completely unknown for a woman to start a period early or be late one month, and as Matilda notes her cycle doesn't usually run exactly 28 days anyway.

So this story is one open for the readers' interpretation as to whether supernatural things happened or everything had a normal, rational, Earth-bound explanation.

 

[alohadave]

This is harder with erotica, because (for me at least) erotica requires describing characters doing things that go up to or step over the edge, and that has to be done carefully to avoid losing the reader. And when I say the "reader," I mean me as a reader. As I write I periodically ask myself if what I'm writing as an author is too much bullshit for me to enjoy as a reader. If my answer is "no," then I just keep on going.

I've found myself dealing with this, and at times I feel that I have to remind myself that I'm writing porn, and that real life reactions aren't what are required.

Like think about how family members would react to actual incestuous situations. Unless you are going for a realistic portrayal, it's really going to bog down the story. But remove some of the barriers, while still having some reaction that creates drama and anticipation, you move the story forward to the juicy bits.

 

[Euphony]

 

[Britva415]

I have a fairly high ability to suspend disbelief, but my tolerance falls quickly if I'm asked to do it too often

For me, it's not about frequency, it's about the payoff.

If the story's good, it's worth it. If the story's not good, I'll dwell on the disbelief because I'm not being given anything else compelling enough to react to.

 

[Britva415]

Stephen King says he enjoys taking normal, believable people and putting them in crazy situations to see what they’d do. In fiction. Of course. He doesn’t do that in real life. I don’t think.

Well, I had a childhood friend who was his niece. There was a certain cognitive dissonance I would have, about hearing her talk about sitting on his knee as a little kid.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

I'm currently writing a fantasy series set in the aftermath of an apocalyptic war waged by single-gender aliens, featuring anti-gravity sailing ships that travel on ether portals between planets.

When my Sorceress character uses magic to get herself pregnant, I wondered if I should reduce the number of children she has from four to three, so as not to strain the suspension of disbelief.

 

[TheLobster]

They sort of built up trust with the audience, so when the shark gets the oxygen tank stuck in its mouth and it explodes when it's hit by a bullet, which should have just put a hole in the tank, not cause it to explode along with the shark, the audience is willing to go with it.

"Shoot a tank and everything explodes" is also an extremely common trope that the audience already believes in, most often when it's a gas tank in a car. So it's not just Spielberg doing a "good" job there but all the action films before him.

 

[jaF0]

He's right, of course.

Why do you insist on annoyingly gargantuan signature pictures?

Also note the site rules about copyright ownership of images.

 

[StillStunned]

"Shoot a tank and everything explodes" is also an extremely common trope that the audience already believes in, most often when it's a gas tank in a car. So it's not just Spielberg doing a "good" job there but all the action films before him.

It's becoming quite common for shows to mess with the trope now, though. It came up all the time in Burn Notice, how if you want a car to explode you have to use exploding bullets.

The first one I can remember playing with it was Due South. "Don't worry, Ray. It's very uncommon for a car's engine to actually blow up." <Boom>

(That show played around with other tropes as well.
Fraser: "Ray, duck!"
<Ray throws himself flat in the muddy snow>
Fraser: "Anas platyrhynchos. Very unusual sighting for this time of year.")

 

[lovecraft68]

I think any story in Sci fi, erotic horror, and non human shouldn't count in this conversation, as by nature they defy reality to begin with.

In general, this is an individualized response, and based on our own personal feelings and kinks.

Example, any story where some middle aged schlub is beset upon by three or four teenage girls who just can't get enough of his middle aged self is an eye roll. Pure porn male fantasy just reminds me of 8th grade.

But the best example of how people's perception of what they'll believe or not, is the story I just mentioned. A daughter has a sleep over, and her three friends decide they have to have her father, she comes in and...join in. Okay, sure, I mean, its a sex story, so why not?

There was a comment on the story calling out "You said the father had a double bed. No way are five people doing all this on a double bed.

That was what took them out of the story, not an orgy, not incest...the size of the bed.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've found myself dealing with this, and at times I feel that I have to remind myself that I'm writing porn, and that real life reactions aren't what are required.

Like think about how family members would react to actual incestuous situations. Unless you are going for a realistic portrayal, it's really going to bog down the story. But remove some of the barriers, while still having some reaction that creates drama and anticipation, you move the story forward to the juicy bits.

I have a story here where a father finds dirty pictures he took of his wife missing and finds them in his son's room. When he confronts the son it can go two ways...

Porn-Dad says "Yeah, mom is hot, hey you want to have sex with her and I'll watch?"

Reality-Dad loses his mind.

In mine the father unloads on the son, smacks him in the face and tells him he needs to go find someone else to live with.

In general the story did pretty well-of course son ends up with mom... of course! But I did get more than a few comments that weren't happy with the dose of reality tossed into the fantasy

 

[TheLobster]

I have a story here where a father finds dirty pictures he took of his wife missing and finds them in his son's room. When he confronts the son it can go two ways...

Porn-Dad says "Yeah, mom is hot, hey you want to have sex with her and I'll watch?"

Reality-Dad loses his mind.

In mine the father unloads on the son, smacks him in the face and tells him he needs to go find someone else to live with.

The Porn-Dad version sounds too preposterous for all but the most out-there incest stories.

If I were to make it somewhat plausible, I'd have the father take away the pictures and say nothing to the son (he'd still know someone has discovered his not-so-innocent pastime). He'd then go "Honey, look what I found in junior's room," she'd promise she'd talk to the son, and it's easy to imagine what happens next.

That doesn't make the father a willing cuckold of his wife and son, of course, but I have no idea how you'd semi-realistically accomplish that. (Okay, that's a lie; I actually wrote a story where this happens but only sort-of, and the circumstances were completely different).

 

[intim8]

"Shoot a tank and everything explodes" is also an extremely common trope that the audience already believes in, most often when it's a gas tank in a car. So it's not just Spielberg doing a "good" job there but all the action films before him.

That's like FTL in science fiction. It's grandfathered in.

 

[StillStunned]

That's like FTL in science fiction. It's grandfathered in.

On a completely unrelated note, doesn't "Grandfathered In" sound like a great title for an I/T story?

 

[AlexBailey]

The new Planet of the Apes movie got to me.

I have no problem with the sci-fi premise but then they went and messed with physics…

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The new Planet of the Apes movie got to me.

I have no problem with the sci-fi premise but then they went and messed with physics…

I think that's fairly common these days with any show or movie that fits into the Action/SciFi/Fantasy genre. The whole "let's stun the audience with the effects and ridiculous stunts and they will overlook the fact that the story is crap" approach. It paid off at the start of the wave of CGI-dominated movies, but now people are oversaturated with it. It still works with kids and teens I suppose, but I believe that the older generations have had enough of that garbage.

 

[Euphony]

I think that's fairly common these days with any show or movie that fits into the Action/SciFi/Fantasy genre. The whole "let's stun the audience with the effects and ridiculous stunts and they will overlook the fact that the story is crap" approach. It paid off at the start of the wave of CGI-dominated movies, but now people are oversaturated with it. It still works with kids and teens I suppose, but I believe that the older generations have had enough of that garbage.

Agree with many of the points but I do wonder if there's simply a lack of story writing talent in Hollywood to cover the insane content spewing engine now tasked with filling a bajillion different media spaces.

Add in dicking over what talent there is (that is certainly in it for love of the art/need to create) with poor wages (relative to what they generate) and a constant attitude of "be lucky we haven't yet found at least a passable way of replacing you." (see writers strikes, the absolute screw job writers the landscape transitioned to streaming but compensation did not) Don't even get me started on Hollywood "accounting" shenanigans.

There's too many platforms needing to justify their profiteering level costs by having exclusives and tent poles. When it was a throw in with your cable package, meh, mediocre doesn't register as much.

When you are balancing whether X network+ is worth $14.99 for another month, different calculus.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I think that's fairly common these days with any show or movie that fits into the Action/SciFi/Fantasy genre. The whole "let's stun the audience with the effects and ridiculous stunts and they will overlook the fact that the story is crap" approach. It paid off at the start of the wave of CGI-dominated movies, but now people are oversaturated with it. It still works with kids and teens I suppose, but I believe that the older generations have had enough of that garbage.

When I was a teenager, (80s, 90s) they said Hollywood films were made to appeal to fourteen-year-old boys, because they (and tag-along families) went to the cinema the most - and paid for the most snacks (don't forget most cinemas make no money from ticket sales, only the food and drink). Which explained a lot, especially as back then a 14yo could walk into a 18-rated film with no problem at all.

It's now very interesting to see the opinions of the next generations - most kids I know can't be bothered to go see a movie. They'd prefer to go online and play a game with similar effects with their mates, but not having Marvel or comics nostalgia, they aren't hugely interested in films. Some will watch on the sofa, but it seems that the thinking person's drama is now in live theatres or on TV - and filmed theatre is now what's keeping cinemas going. That and other 'event' screenings.

I imagine there'll always be a demand for giant screens, but the 90s multiplexes with screens not much bigger than a modern TV deserve to die a death.

 

[SimonDoom]

"Shoot a tank and everything explodes" is also an extremely common trope that the audience already believes in, most often when it's a gas tank in a car. So it's not just Spielberg doing a "good" job there but all the action films before him.

This is a good example of "write what is realistic in the mind of most readers" as opposed to "write only what the expert on the subject will believe is real." I'm sure Spielberg didn't give a hoot about those very few experts on air tanks who would know the scene was BS.

I think the same attitude is fair with erotica. It's one of the reasons why I strenuously support the right of someone to write a BDSM story without knowing a single thing about the "real-world" BDSM lifestyle. It's not important to one's story and the majority of readers won't care because they don't know anything at all about that lifestyle.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

The most important thing to me is that the story be internally consistent. Once you set up the rules of your universe then stick with them. Sudden loopholes to either rescue the protagonist with some Deus ex machina or to create some sort of conflict just breaks the whole spell.
The Last Jedi is a good example. Star Wars is soft Sci-Fi, the physics don't really matter, it's all about the story telling. Throughout the entire Star Wars saga up til that point ships just flew around and did what they needed to do. Now, out of nowhere the big problem driving the plot is "we are going to run out of gas!"
And (spoilers!) then we find out you can just jump into hyperspace and collide with a ship and destroy it. Why bother with manned X-wings, just set the autopilot to jump into hyperspace and ram the Imperial ships?

Stuff like the tank scene in Jaws worked because it was 1977 and no one was making YouTube videos about shark behavior.
Sure, experts knew a shark wouldn't bite a tank like that, but it seemed perfectly reasonable to the general public. People didn't have to suspend disbelief, they just plain didn't know better.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

And (spoilers!) then we find out you can just jump into hyperspace and collide with a ship and destroy it. Why bother with manned X-wings, just set the autopilot to jump into hyperspace and ram the Imperial ships?

Because it was a million-to-one shot, of course. That plot point was remarkably clever, you just don't see it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

To be fair, Roy Schider threw the tank into Bruce's mouth. But I'm sure that the shark should've spat it out.

Stuff like the tank scene in Jaws worked because it was 1977 and no one was making YouTube videos about shark behavior.
Sure, experts knew a shark wouldn't bite a tank like that, but it seemed perfectly reasonable to the general public. People didn't have to suspend disbelief, they just plain didn't know better.

 

[TheLobster]

Because it was a million-to-one shot, of course. That plot point was remarkably clever, you just don't see it.

Something tells me that the hyperspace ramming plot hole won't be explained by a movie as good as Rogue One anytime soon, though.