Kim's poly/kink thread reinvented ...

[KimGordon67]

It's a bit embarrassing, as a 52 year old person, to admit that I still need, from time to time, to remind myself that I am solely responsible for my happiness.


I think that this is such sage advice. Don't focus on the time/attention/resources that someone else is receiving and whether or not it's more than you are receiving. Focus solely on your own needs and whether or not they are being met. If they are being met, why does it matter what anyone else is receiving? That's how I try to make myself look at the situation. Sometimes I am more successful than others.

Yeah, I can see how the 'who's getting the most attention' thing can become a bit of an issue when there's more than two people involved. Like, I already know that the guy who's geographically closer to me is probably going to end up spending more time with me ... or if not more actual time, will see me more regularly ... just for logistical reasons. But with GG, who's six hours away, I really don't know if we'd get to see each other more even if he was the only person I'm seeing - it seems pretty unlikely. In all honesty, that's probably what's going to be the biggest problem with maintaining things. It's quite frustrating - flying annoyingly doesn't make any better, because there's no direct flights between here and there. And I just feel like he's not a phone sex kind of guy. But ... he hadn't gotten laid for over a year before I came along, so technically he's getting more sex now than he was before. Maybe that'll be enough?

 

[AngelicaS1780]

Hopefully he can focus on enjoying your company whenever you are able to get together and then enjoy other aspects of his life during the times you are apart.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I think that this is such sage advice. Don't focus on the time/attention/resources that someone else is receiving and whether or not it's more than you are receiving. Focus solely on your own needs and whether or not they are being met. If they are being met, why does it matter what anyone else is receiving? That's how I try to make myself look at the situation. Sometimes I am more successful than others.

Yeah, I can see how the 'who's getting the most attention' thing can become a bit of an issue when there's more than two people involved. Like, I already know that the guy who's geographically closer to me is probably going to end up spending more time with me ... or if not more actual time, will see me more regularly ... just for logistical reasons. But with GG, who's six hours away, I really don't know if we'd get to see each other more even if he was the only person I'm seeing - it seems pretty unlikely

I think that limited time and attention can become a problem, but as long as that is all there is to it, I also think it is solveable unless someone is really spreading themselves unreasonably thin.
The thing that can make it really difficult even when it would be possible to deal with the practical issues, is when someone doesn’t see why you’d still want to see them based on their qualities when there is someone else who is closer or younger or whatever the issue might be.
The latter sometimes hides beneath the former.

Hopefully he can focus on enjoying your company whenever you are able to get together and then enjoy other aspects of his life during the times you are apart

That!
And even if he might not be interested in phone sex type stuff, there are ather parts of a relationship that can be kept going between the times you meet, hopefully.

 

[Paul_Chance]

One of the things that is challenging in leading a non-monogamous or polyamorous lifestyle is, periodically, you'll run into decision points.

You've got a weekend free...and Lover A has the weekend free and let's you know. Then, moments later, Lover B let's you know they're also free that weekend.

There is a flipside to that coin as well. You've got the weekend free, you let Lover A know, hoping to get some time together, but at the same time, their Lover B has freed up.

In the first, you've got to make the decision. In the second, they've got to make the decision. A neat little landmine has appeared for you to step on.

No one wants to be in the position where you disappoint someone. No one wants to be the disappointed.

It's complicated because, for most people, it would just be a simple matter of choosing and...not telling the one you didn't choose. But, one of the major points of ethical non-monogamy is the ethical part. Not only telling the unchosen partner that you've made another choice for the weekend, but telling them what that choice was.

That is a hard thing to do sometimes, but if you do it, if you face those challenges straight on when they arise, with honesty and openess, eventually you'll find yourself in a good place.

In the ployamorous or ethically non-monogamous lifetyle, people will come and go, relationships will rise and fall, and you'll be good with that. Part of it is adjusting your mindset to the long view - you'll find that lovers cycle in and out of your life and you can hold them all with love, compassion and empathy.

 

[KimGordon67]

It's complicated because, for most people, it would just be a simple matter of choosing and...not telling the one you didn't choose. But, one of the major points of ethical non-monogamy is the ethical part. Not only telling the unchosen partner that you've made another choice for the weekend, but telling them what that choice was.

I am struggling with this a bit, because GG doesn't want to know if I'm seeing anyone else ... which I am. This doesn't sit with me very well - like the other weekend, he asked how I was and I saw I was a little tired because I'd been out late the night before and he asked what I'd been up to and I just said 'went to see some bands down the road' ... and just left out the fact that I was there was this other guy. Which feels a lot like lying to me ... but he specifically said 'I probably don't want to hear about it if you're out with someone else'. So maybe I just have to be OK with compromising a bit around that, if that's what he needs? Quite tricky.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I am struggling with this a bit, because GG doesn't want to know if I'm seeing anyone else ... which I am. This doesn't sit with me very well - like the other weekend, he asked how I was and I saw I was a little tired because I'd been out late the night before and he asked what I'd been up to and I just said 'went to see some bands down the road' ... and just left out the fact that I was there was this other guy. Which feels a lot like lying to me ... but he specifically said 'I probably don't want to hear about it if you're out with someone else'. So maybe I just have to be OK with compromising a bit around that, if that's what he needs? Quite tricky.

Yeah - I've had a few people over the years tell me "I don't want to know". I'm fine with that, but I usually respond with "then remember to not ask", because that's how those conversations unspool.

"I missed you last weekend."
"I was out." (Trying to dodge the conversation)
"Where did you go?"
"Ah, I went to dinner and to see a band." (Still trying to dodge the conversation)
"Who were you with"....
"Oh, Lover B and a couple of her friends." (ethical part of me kicks in).

Sometimes though, I've found there is an almost inevitable invisible line from "don't tell" to "don't do". A tough line to navigate without bravely turning into the question.

"I don't want to know about it"
"That's interesting, why not? You know I hate lying, by omission or commission, and I try to live my life without lies."

If you push the question, you might hit the make/break point earlier, to everyone's benefit.

 

[KimGordon67]

Yeah - I've had a few people over the years tell me "I don't want to know". I'm fine with that, but I usually respond with "then remember to not ask", because that's how those conversations unspool.

"I missed you last weekend."
"I was out." (Trying to dodge the conversation)
"Where did you go?"
"Ah, I went to dinner and to see a band." (Still trying to dodge the conversation)
"Who were you with"....
"Oh, Lover B and a couple of her friends." (ethical part of me kicks in).

Sometimes though, I've found there is an almost inevitable invisible line from "don't tell" to "don't do". A tough line to navigate without bravely turning into the question.

"I don't want to know about it"
"That's interesting, why not? You know I hate lying, by omission or commission, and I try to live my life without lies."

If you push the question, you might hit the make/break point earlier, to everyone's benefit.

Yeah, I've been pretty clear that I'm not going to outrightly lie, so if he asks, I will just tell him.

I already know the answer to why he doesn't want to know about it ... we hit that point a while back, and stopped seeing each other. But obviously I'm so fucking irresistible that he decided it was worth making an effort to get over his jealousy ... but there's understandably only so far he can go with that. So I sort of think if he's prepared to make that compromise, I can give a little on the '100% up front honesty' bit, if that's what he needs.

 

[KimGordon67]

So ... in addition to the return of GG, there's a new young man in the mix. (Well, two years younger than me ... 'young' compared to GG I guess?) That's becoming interesting. We met on a dating app - he a couple of hours away from me, but in a town that I'm in often for work, and he also spends a bit of time in my town because there's a bar here where a lot of bands he likes play. He's also in a band - the gig shot is probably what I first noticed, but also his profile mentioned liking alternative music and film ... along with saying that he's looking for someone 'intelligent and happy', which I really liked - 'happy' isn't a word you see often in dating profiles. In fact, if the guys bother to use any words at all (which they often don't), it's often a list of negatives, usually topped with 'not into drama'.
Anyway, we matched, and started chatting, about music and stuff. Then there was a gig down the road with a band I thought he might have been into. (Actually, they're a long-ago ex-boyfriend's band, just to add to the weirdness.) So I asked him if he wanted to come over for that .... a bit of a gamble, because he would need to stay over even if we didn't really click. Absolutely great night ... the bands were kind of odd, but we drank quite a bit, and there were quite a few people there one or the other of us knew, so lots of chatting. Which was great - I realised how much I'd missed seeing someone that I can go out with and just have a heap of fun. These guys who only drop around for a few hours to have a few drinks, a chat, and get laid are fine, but sometimes it's good to have a bit more going on. The last bit of night was a bit blurry, and I was a little worse for wear the next morning. But happy. He's a bit puzzling ... like, we get on really well, he seems super relaxed, but then he tells me that he finds me a bit intimidating, which I don't get at all. BUT I also think there's some potential in there for something a little left-of-centre with the sex.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I definitely agree on the importance (and wonder) of finding a person you can just hang out with. That "hang out compatibility" goes a long way toward solidifying a relationship of any sort. Sounds like it was an enjoyable encounter! Do you know any people in common? I run into that when you have overlapping musical interests and you find you've been moving in similar overlapping circles. Someone always knows someone.

 

[KimGordon67]

I definitely agree on the importance (and wonder) of finding a person you can just hang out with. That "hang out compatibility" goes a long way toward solidifying a relationship of any sort. Sounds like it was an enjoyable encounter! Do you know any people in common? I run into that when you have overlapping musical interests and you find you've been moving in similar overlapping circles. Someone always knows someone.

Not as many people as I would have expected, but definitely some mutual acquaintances. We've been at the same gigs in the past. He's SO HAPPY to find someone who knows the bands he's into ... the standard dating apps are a bit bereft of that sort of thing.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think the lesser tangibles are the parts that are hard to match up on. Those things that matter and are part of our foundation, but don't occupy a front-space in out self-image, so we don't think to mention them in dating profiles.

LOL - and I flashed on the inevitable question when you encounter someone wearing the concert t-shirt of your favorite band. "Did you go to the concert, are you a fan, or are you just wearing the t-shirt because it's cool?".

 

[KimGordon67]

I think the lesser tangibles are the parts that are hard to match up on. Those things that matter and are part of our foundation, but don't occupy a front-space in out self-image, so we don't think to mention them in dating profiles.

LOL - and I flashed on the inevitable question when you encounter someone wearing the concert t-shirt of your favorite band. "Did you go to the concert, are you a fan, or are you just wearing the t-shirt because it's cool?".

I recognised that his band name was a reference to another slightly more well known but still not VERY well known band. And just after our first date, we booked tickets to go up to the big city to see Idles in July, complete with hotel room. Maybe moving a bit fast - but sometimes you just have to grab life by the balls ... is that why he's finding me a bit intimidating? (Rhetorical question, but maybe other women just don't do shit like that?)

 

[Paul_Chance]

I recognised that his band name was a reference to another slightly more well known but still not VERY well known band. And just after our first date, we booked tickets to go up to the big city to see Idles in July, complete with hotel room. Maybe moving a bit fast - but sometimes you just have to grab life by the balls ... is that why he's finding me a bit intimidating? (Rhetorical question, but maybe other women just don't do shit like that?)

It's hard to say what, specifically, he would find intimidating - that varies a lot per person. The moving fast can be intimidating to a certain type of person, where another person would take that as a good sign.

I agree on the grabbing life's balls - sometimes it pays in life when you have a reckless approach and are open to running down the trail of anything or anyone who opens up.

Did he give you any clue as to what he found intimidating? Did you out converse, out dance and out drink him?

 

[KimGordon67]

It's hard to say what, specifically, he would find intimidating - that varies a lot per person. The moving fast can be intimidating to a certain type of person, where another person would take that as a good sign.

I agree on the grabbing life's balls - sometimes it pays in life when you have a reckless approach and are open to running down the trail of anything or anyone who opens up.

Did he give you any clue as to what he found intimidating? Did you out converse, out dance and out drink him?

Definitely didn't out drink ... although I was matching him. I really don't know ... I guess I'm just pretty forthright about things. I think he *liked* the moving fast thing, but maybe was also knocked off balance a bit? Maybe he's spent a lot of time with younger women? There was definitely a relationship in the past that he stayed in out of some sense of obligation and responsibility. There's been one or two little insecurities come out as well - I quite like that he's been open about some of these things.
People are just strange. Keeps life interesting.

 

[Paul_Chance]

There are definitely people in this world who are the good strange. The people who make you see things from a different perspective and kind of pull you into their world by association. I like those kind of people. Did you hint at or bring up your BDSM tendencies? That can be intimidating for people who've never experienced it. Again, that is one of those worlds you can get pulled into by association.

 

[KimGordon67]

There are definitely people in this world who are the good strange. The people who make you see things from a different perspective and kind of pull you into their world by association. I like those kind of people. Did you hint at or bring up your BDSM tendencies? That can be intimidating for people who've never experienced it. Again, that is one of those worlds you can get pulled into by association.

I think there's always hints ... I tend to do little bits of testing, just to see how people respond. Nothing overly confrontational ... just a 'can you do that a little harder', or a bite of the lip when kissing that's just a little more than most people might. I'm still not entirely sure of the results of that, but he did suggest when we were chatting last night that he's got a 'vibe' from me ... "I think most people like sex a lot. Some are just more willing to explore its potential than others. And the vibe I get from you is that youd be willing to go most places". (That's a direct quote.) I didn't really push that any further ... because, you know, don't want to seem intimidating. But it's promising. My guess would be, at this point, that there's maybe stuff in there he hasn't had the chance to explore before. But I could be completely wrong about that ... maybe his house comes complete with a dungeon.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think there's always hints ... I tend to do little bits of testing, just to see how people respond. Nothing overly confrontational ... just a 'can you do that a little harder', or a bite of the lip when kissing that's just a little more than most people might. I'm still not entirely sure of the results of that, but he did suggest when we were chatting last night that he's got a 'vibe' from me ... "I think most people like sex a lot. Some are just more willing to explore its potential than others. And the vibe I get from you is that youd be willing to go most places". (That's a direct quote.) I didn't really push that any further ... because, you know, don't want to seem intimidating. But it's promising. My guess would be, at this point, that there's maybe stuff in there he hasn't had the chance to explore before. But I could be completely wrong about that ... maybe his house comes complete with a dungeon.

That sounds promising indeed (and I would have pushed a little, that type of statement is kind of opening a conversational door to see if you'll drive through). That's usually a sign that they have a good kink they want to get to, or some kink that bends them and they'd like to have it out front, but aren't sure how to get it there.

Which could include "Yes, well, I have an entire dungeon at my place".

 

[KimGordon67]

That sounds promising indeed (and I would have pushed a little, that type of statement is kind of opening a conversational door to see if you'll drive through). That's usually a sign that they have a good kink they want to get to, or some kink that bends them and they'd like to have it out front, but aren't sure how to get it there.

Which could include "Yes, well, I have an entire dungeon at my place".

I told him he wasn't wrong, and then the conversation segued into some jokes about fluffy tail butt plugs (which are a HARD limit for me). I will circle back around to that though ... I need to remind myself that there's no rush, and that sometimes it's fun to take one's time to get to the really interesting stuff. I tend to prefer a fair bit of good vanilla sex first, just to lay some foundations.
I did miss one opportunity in the weekend, when I got of bed and he said something like 'are those scratch marks on your arse from me'. SO MANY thing I could have come back with ... I can't even remember what I said. Maybe nothing? (They were from him.) LOL ... sometimes my own confidence subsides and I'm left with 'would you like a coffee?' as the only thing I can think of to say.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I told him he wasn't wrong, and then the conversation segued into some jokes about fluffy tail butt plugs (which are a HARD limit for me). I will circle back around to that though ... I need to remind myself that there's no rush, and that sometimes it's fun to take one's time to get to the really interesting stuff. I tend to prefer a fair bit of good vanilla sex first, just to lay some foundations.
I did miss one opportunity in the weekend, when I got of bed and he said something like 'are those scratch marks on your arse from me'. SO MANY thing I could have come back with ... I can't even remember what I said. Maybe nothing? (They were from him.) LOL ... sometimes my own confidence subsides and I'm left with 'would you like a coffee?' as the only thing I can think of to say.

LOL - a hard limit in which way and for who? For you? Or for him? (LOL - I would have asked "what kind of butt plug do you prefer to wear" with a straight face, just to see where the conversation went).

Yeah, I can be a tad on the forward and reckless side - but it also depends on the context and the conversations surrounding it. I definitely agree on the value of just ordinary sex a few times before moving to kink. I always equate sex to playing a duet. You kind of have to play some standard, simple, piece to get the other musicians style down and to let them get a feel for your style. You can't just drop in and wail. Well, you can - and it might work - but odds are it'll turn to shit.

 

[pumperguy191]

Interesting development Kim. I hope it works for you. When my wife and I met 31 years ago, it was over a song on the jukebox at a bar. After many drinks, we finally kissed. It went much farther that night. Obviously, still is going great. I understand the part of you 2 doing things together. We go everywhere together. Shopping, hairdresser, doctor, etc. Before Covid, we would go to 3 or 4 major concerts a year. Some, 3 hr drive away. It didn't matter, as long as we are together. So, I totally get the excitement of finding someone to do 'stuff' with.

Good luck,

 

[AnnieLit]

I think there's always hints ... I tend to do little bits of testing, just to see how people respond. Nothing overly confrontational ... just a 'can you do that a little harder', or a bite of the lip when kissing that's just a little more than most people might. I'm still not entirely sure of the results of that, but he did suggest when we were chatting last night that he's got a 'vibe' from me ... "I think most people like sex a lot. Some are just more willing to explore its potential than others. And the vibe I get from you is that youd be willing to go most places". (That's a direct quote.) I didn't really push that any further ... because, you know, don't want to seem intimidating. But it's promising. My guess would be, at this point, that there's maybe stuff in there he hasn't had the chance to explore before. But I could be completely wrong about that ... maybe his house comes complete with a dungeon.

The question is who that hypothetical dungeon is for. The "intimidated" part suggests that you might not be the one getting to be restrained in there.

 

[KimGordon67]

The question is who that hypothetical dungeon is for. The "intimidated" part suggests that you might not be the one getting to be restrained in there.

This thought has crossed my mind.

 

[AnnieLit]

This thought has crossed my mind.

Would that be an acceptable turn of events for you?

 

[KimGordon67]

Would that be an acceptable turn of events for you?

I can switch ... it's maybe not my 'natural' state, but it has happened. I guess I haven't been in a situation where I might fully explore the potential of being on the d side of the d/s equation ... years ago I would have been a bit bewildered by the idea, but now I find it interesting ... maybe not interesting enough to actively seek out, but enough to entertain the possibility with someone I like. It's sort of nice that (if I'm right about this) he doesn't have a whole heap of experience ... I quite enjoy exploring those sort of dynamics with someone else slowly, and working things out as we go along, rather than either person arriving to the situation with a whole set of preformed assumptions/wants. (Not that everyone does, of course, but a lot of people do seem to have quite set ideas of what either the d or the s 'should' be doing in their little universe.)

 

[AnnieLit]

I can switch ... it's maybe not my 'natural' state, but it has happened. I guess I haven't been in a situation where I might fully explore the potential of being on the d side of the d/s equation ... years ago I would have been a bit bewildered by the idea, but now I find it interesting ... maybe not interesting enough to actively seek out, but enough to entertain the possibility with someone I like. It's sort of nice that (if I'm right about this) he doesn't have a whole heap of experience ... I quite enjoy exploring those sort of dynamics with someone else slowly, and working things out as we go along, rather than either person arriving to the situation with a whole set of preformed assumptions/wants. (Not that everyone does, of course, but a lot of people do seem to have quite set ideas of what either the d or the s 'should' be doing in their little universe.)

Interesting take on the preferred experience level. I think I am on the opposite end of the spectrum here - I much prefer my partner to know what they like and have practical experience with it. Little tweaks here and there are nice, but on bigger things I don't want it to be his first time on either side of the d/s equation. Go learn, experiment, and fail with somebody else