On Breastfeeding, Rights, and Good Manners

[SeaCat]

Re: Ok......think about this

(both my daughters were breast fed)

But, for the sake of argument.......



Say a mom is breast feeding in starbucks.........

and a guy walks up.......and says......


"nice tits lady, I need some milk in my latta"

Now what is the societal response?

On the part of the mother, grabbing his double Latte and throwing it in his face might be excessive, but throwing it into his groin area would not be. On the part of any real men around, taking him out back of the store and beating the living tar out of him would be considered the polite thing to do. (Killing him in public would be excessive, and they should be charged with some crime like littering.)

Cat

 

[Guest]

 

[oggbashan]

Breastfeeding tip: On our first daughter, oh, perhaps a month or so after her birth, we ordered a pepperoni, sausage and onion pizza. Well, the onions went through my wife and into the baby. Talk about an upset infant........the moral of the story...order moderate pizzas while breastfeeding........

From my wife's experience: Vindaloo curry is NOT a good choice.

Both mother and baby had explosive 'loose' movements. I had to clean up after both of them.

Og

 

[shereads]

From my wife's experience: Vindaloo curry is NOT a good choice.

Both mother and baby had explosive 'loose' movements. I had to clean up after both of them.

Og

Just please say it didn't happen at the restaurant. Not that babies aren't entitled to have loose movements, even explosive ones, in restaurants. Perish the thought.

 

[oggbashan]

No. It was a take-away meal.

My wife thought she'd like a 'hot' curry because she had been on a bland diet throughout the pregnancy.

She didn't make the same mistake again.

That night it was my turn get up to look after the baby. Six nappies in two hours!

Og

 

[shereads]

No. It was a take-away meal.

My wife thought she'd like a 'hot' curry because she had been on a bland diet throughout the pregnancy.

She didn't make the same mistake again.

That night it was my turn get up to look after the baby. Six nappies in two hours!

Og

Eeeewww.

 

[sweetnpetite]

sweetnpetite.....

Most breastfeeding women in public usually use a blanket to cover the child and the breasts...those who make no effort to cover would appear to me to have an agenda of sorts...

This is not a life or death issue, but it does point of the complexity of modern society, morals and ethics...and even local standards...

interesting....thanks for the post....

Well, it is a matter of life or death in a way. We are talking about an infants right to *eat* after all. I am a big believer in not covering up, so I guess that means I have an agenda. Nor do I think there is anything wrong with *having and agenda

A woman feeding her child shouldn't feel like she has to hide what she is doing. Someone *may* be turned on by seeing her bare nipple or the curve of her breast (egads!!!) but NO-ONE will be harmed in the least. What do I tell my kids - Tell them that she is feeding her baby, that it's perfectly natural and healthy and it's fine to be curious but it's not polite to stare! For crying out loud, how hard is that?

At some point I hope it becomes so common, that no one will think to wonder. (Then we will have a positive model for doing what is natural and healthy, maybe less mothers will choose *not* to breastfeed (out of social discomfort) because of it seeming odd, or *obscene* or unfamiliar)

Breastfeeding isn't anything to be ashamed of- therefore why should one have to hide it?

As for private property, you don't have to let anyone on your property that you don't want there. However, if* you have the right to be there, and you have the right to *eat or *drink there (or offer your baby a bottle), IMO you shouldn't be forced to leave because you nurse your hungry child.

I would certainly *certainly* protest. YOu'd have to drag me outa there!!! (possibly topless)

 

[sweetnpetite]

Every point you've made is gold.

I think I love you.

I'm not as bold as i sound. I do in fact try not to flash people around me-- but i don't think that they* should be my first concern.

On a side note, some of the people I knew who just "could never" breast-feed in public (and therefor didn't breastfeed at all) where also some of the *least* modest people I've ever met! I've shown less while nursing that they (and sometimes I) show in everyday clothing. (I'm big on cleavage)

Rude, or "unacceptably rude?!"

Isn't it rude when a man grabs his balls in public? Or hawks a loogee and spits in public? Or farts, belches, or tells off-color jokes? **

Isn't that rude?! Quite frankly I'd rather see the most blatantly obvious beast-feeding in public rather than any of the above, but noooo... breastfeeding is now "rude." To which I say, hogwash.

I've been around nursing mothers all my life. If I'm uncomfortable, it's my issue, not theirs. I've never been around a woman who breastfeeds her baby in a "rude" manner. Usually there is a blanket or part of the shirt covering the nipple- but even if it wasn't, what'st he big freaking deal?! It's a breast, for God's sake!

For some reason this topic reminds me of the Janet Jackson tit fiasco. It's just a tit people! But somehow I'm supposed to be ashamed because I have them? Because they symbolize in some people's mind something nasty and dirty from which small children and innocent victims should be protected? Again I say, hogwash.

I fully intend to breastfeed any babies I'm blessed with; for the most part, due to my own shy nature, I will most-likely breast feed as inconspicuosly as possible, but I'm not going to hide the fact that I'm breast feeding and I'm not going to be ashamed because I'm doing it. And yes, if I'm stuck in an airplane with a fussy baby who just won't quiet down, you can damn well bet I'll be breast-feeding said baby right there in coach class rather than squeeze my way down an aisle and squeeze into the small lavatory just to feed my baby. Ridiculous. The laws don't need revision, the way we think does.


**(No, the last four items aren't exclusive to male behavior, but men do tend to do them more than women.) [/B]

 

[sweetnpetite]

Don't take this the wrong way, but what the fuck does that mean? I don't think anyone is into breast feeding, in public or in private, after the first year or two of life.

Not into fat bald men. Should be kept indoor at all times.

 

[sweetnpetite]

It means "[I'm] not into [women] breast feeding [their children] in public".

When deciding the method/timing/place of feeding their child, how joe feels about it is not even a consideration- nor should it be.

She understood what you meant the first time, but the way, I don't think you 'got' her meaning.

As was stated earlier, I am not 'into' men adjusing there balls in public, but they do it anyway- and they don't give a damn what I think about it.

So why should a woman, making a healthy choice for her child, being nuturing and loving and attentive to her babies needs by feeding him *when* he's hungry - give a damn if some guys who may be around (or not) at the time are 'into it' or not?

I think that was more or less the point

 

[sweetnpetite]

LOL!

Next time I feed my son in a resteraunt, I'll be on the lookout for people picking there noses, and other rude behavior!

To be honest, I've never personally been told I couldn't do it.

I've even breastfed in church. And I'm not ashamed.

This has to be one of the most insane things. Nothing could be more natural. Being a mother who once breast fed her children, I can assure you, it's the mothers who are most embarrassed. I like most then and now (the ones I see) use a blanket and cover up the best they can. I had bras that had the cups unsnap to get the job done. I didn't nor do I see mothers hiking their shirts over their heads or act in any other lude manner. I'm going to refrain from going on a full on rant, but shouldn't we be more worried about our teen age daughters dressing in belly shirts, belly rings, and looking twice their age? Maybe we should ban people who use their knife as a shovel, use their sleeve as a napkin, and pick their noses at the dinner table. Leave the babies and mothers alone. Who is it in the world today, who's biggest worry is mothers feeding their babies ???

 

[sweetnpetite]

Oh my.

Your penchant for over-analizing has made you miss the point.

Entirely.

Most socially-oriented problems are. That a problem is "personal" doesn't make it invalid; someone could be masturbating, cussing, berating their child, spanking their child, etc. in public... having a preference for that happening in private is, essentially, a personal problem--but that doesn't, alone, make it insignificant.



Well, this isn't really a public forum, is it? More of an extremely open, private one. It has rules, it has ruling entities, it can enforce any subset of standards it wants, arbitrarily even, it isn't government controlled, etc.--as such, it is allowing things like my opinion (and encouraging them). So, I think I'm covered there. To use your analogy, if there were an extremely open, private place (park, playground, restaurants, stores, etc.) and women were allowed and encouraged to breast feed there... then there is no grounds for offense.

However, that we're talking about public spaces (effectively owned by the people, my taxes a part of that), my preference in the matter is meaningful. By no means is it the end all, I'm not going to ask a woman to stop, and I entirely understand the motivation behind doing it... I just think it should be handled in private, for the comfort of the rest of the public-space dwellers.

There isn't anything offensive or wrong about that.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Jeez, all you tarts jes' don' git it. God made the world to satisfy male lust. Women are diabolical temptresses who keep makin' us wanna cheat on our wives (yes, multiple, getting rid of harems wuz part of the liberal agenda). They should wear burqas lak them A-Rab whoores and never show dem tits or babies unless they be willin' to go all the way, know what I mean. Stonin' ain't good enough for dem shameless hussies anyway, might as well take a load off. Heh heh heh.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite
Oh my.

Your penchant for over-analizing has made you miss the point.

Entirely.

I don't believe I did... what point were you talking about?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Its a complicated issue. From the beginning, all I said was that I wasn't into it and I felt it should be handled privately. That's being neither rude nor domineering over motherhood or their choice to breastfeed--that's just preference.

Joe,

You didn't say "I prefer if woman breastfeed in private." You said, you don't like it, and think it *should* be handled in private. Do you see the difference?

Simple fools that we are, we read that to mean that you think it *should* be handled in private *because* you don't like it.

Your reason is your (or others) discomfort.

You stated a reason why something *should* be done, not a reason why you *prefered* it be done that way. Don't try to backtrack now, and make us into the badguy.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite
Joe,

You didn't say "I prefer if woman breastfeed in private." You said, you don't like it, and think it *should* be handled in private. Do you see the difference?

Simple fools that we are, we read that to mean that you think it *should* be handled in private *because* you don't like it.

Your reason is your (or others) discomfort.

You stated a reason why something *should* be done, not a reason why you *prefered* it be done that way. Don't try to backtrack now, and make us into the badguy.

Actually, to be even more accurate...

I believe I said I wasn't into it and that I think it should be handled privately. I didn't predicate one on the other. I didn't say--and haven't said--that it should be handled privately because I am uncomfortable being around it.

I said that I was uncomfortable with it ("not into it") and that I think it should be handled privately.

If we're going to start talking about what was and wasn't said, I can handle that. If you're going to presume contigency on things that weren't (nor since having been said, yet been argued to be) contingent... I can't stop you, I can only say clearly that its incorrect.

 

[sweetnpetite]

On the other hand, I can not be comfortable with a woman breastfeeding on the sidewalk--being subjected to it being a possible affront to my public rights.

Why would a woman feeding her child affront your public rights?

She is not doing anything to you, she is feeding her child.

My opinion doesn't deny a woman the right to breastfeed her child.

Yes, your opinion absolutely makes it more difficult to feed her child. Your oppinions and others like it make keep rules from being made to protect a woman's right to feed her child. A baby is not like an adult who can just decide to have luch two hours later. (Newborns often need to be fed *every* two hours)

But for the sake of argument, if your oppinion doesn't hurt anyone- how does a mother breastfeeding in public hurt anyone?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite
But for the sake of argument, if your oppinion doesn't hurt anyone- how does a mother breastfeeding in public hurt anyone?

I'm not saying it does.

I don't believe I yet have said that.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

sweet, I think what he is trying to say in his inimitatable style is that:

He, personally, Joe, is uncomfortable with it and it is *his* personal hangup which is to blame for it. He'd find it more comfortable for *him* personally if they didn't breastfeed in public, but there's nothing he can do about it because that's the nature of the universe, outside his control.

So, stab him a little bit less.

 

[sweetnpetite]

You seem to be saying that I should consider the majority of the people here--and that they don't agree with a great many things I say. You seem to be saying that I should censor myself up, my opinions and all, to appease those who are here. You also seem to be saying that I'm somehow undeveloped as a man because of these things.

I get your point. I also don't agree with it. But I fear that arguing with it at all--even if I'm right, even if I do so politely--is only going to be met with "your arguing proves my point" or other such nonsense.

If you've made up your mind about those things, I can't do anything about it. But I think you're wrong, I have good reasons why, and I feel you're being close-minded and entirely unfair about those opinions and labels.

That is not at *all* what 'dita was saying.

She is talking about your *style* of comunicating. It has *nothing* at all to do with your oppinion.

You should go back and re-read what she said.

ps- I am far behind on this thread it will take me a bit to catch up and reply to your recent posts.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'm not saying it does.

I don't believe I yet have said that.

Ok, then if it's not hurting anyone, and it is healthy and good for the parties involved, why should it be stopped?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite
That is not at *all* what 'dita was saying.

She is talking about your *style* of comunicating. It has *nothing* at all to do with your oppinion.

You should go back and re-read what she said.

Um... yes. I know.

 

[sweetnpetite]

bah...we ARE repressed...and I am a victim of that.

our girls were breast fed. I think all children "should" be...if all is functioning and not uncomfortable (physically).


I am also arroused and curious by breast feeding...sorry...can't help it.
I am also arrouse and curious by belly buttons and thongs.

I do my best not to stare or be Obnoxious (excpet here...natch).....but by golly I sure do WANT to see that oh so natural breast...and nipple.

I am behind women's (people's rights) to do this in public...

for what it's worth.

I edited your post for space.

YOu know, I think it's fine that you are 'aroused and curious' In fact, I think it's kind of lovely. Why shouldn't you be aroused by a woman doing something so womanly and motherly?

As long as you don't put that off on her, and make her responsible for *your* reaction which was not her intent. (I don't think you would) Just as you would tell a woman that she shouldn't bend over to pick up something she dropped, because *you feel that it's too overtly sexy

As you mentioned, belly buttons are considered sexy, but we don't have much outrage over people showing those. (and they don't even have a good reason beyond 'fashion')

When I breastfed my firstborn, I neither flashed, nor hid. A particularly uncouth young nieghbor told me that the problem wasn't that I showed to much, but that I didn't show enough. that was rude, but on the other hand assured me that I was in fact, obviously not giving any peek shows.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Entirely agreed.

I am completely confused.

YOu fully support a woman's right to breastfeed in public, but she should do it in private?

 

[sweetnpetite]

displaying bare breasts and nipples in a public setting is something not commonly done in any but the most primitive societies.

WTF???

Like the third world primative countires of Europe, such as France and others???

Your statement is completly inacurate and shows a strong -not to be rude but- ignorance about the larger world. Women openly breastfeed in some countries where they cover most of there bodies in public. Bare breasts and nipples are commonly seen on TV shows (newshows!!!) in developed countries. People walk around topless or naked in total comfort around one another in developed countries.

No it's not just national geographic chicks living in mud huts that 'don't know better' than to cover their shame. For crying out loud- I'm shocked by that statement.