Queer identities, some insights and questions

[WhoDunIt77]

Oh! Okay, that is really interesting. It doesn't sound like an erotic story, though...

Give it time, they’ll both going to be exaggerated forms of their new sexes, plus when it comes to their male parts, both will be “growers”, which will be equally as exaggerated. The two original test subjects went from an overweight man and woman that were unaware of each other also being there. to a muscle god with 2 dongs that are impossibly huge when at attention and a curvy muscle Goddess that both have holes with an extreme elasticity for huge insertions and cum loads………plus have tried to sun-snu each other’s brains out on multiple occasions already. This new couple won’t be quite as extreme, though will also have the same elasticity and a few other mods the first to received. This could get freaky once the changes are done and they can get on with their sex lives together in their new bodies.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Give it time, they’ll both going to be exaggerated forms of their new sexes, plus when it comes to their male parts, both will be “growers”, which will be equally as exaggerated. The two original test subjects went from an overweight man and woman that were unaware of each other also being there. to a muscle god with 2 dongs that are impossibly huge when at attention and a curvy muscle Goddess that both have holes with an extreme elasticity for huge insertions and cum loads………plus have tried to sun-snu each other’s brains out on multiple occasions already. This new couple won’t be quite as extreme, though will also have the same elasticity and a few other mods the first to received. This could get freaky once the changes are done and they can get on with their sex lives together in their new bodies.

Ok, realism. Got it. Have fun. Sounds like a carnival ride, and a fun one, too.

 

[WhoDunIt77]

“

Ok, realism. Got it. Have fun. Sounds like a carnival ride, and a fun one, too.

“Realism” is more like it, I wanted something that sounds like if could have the slightest bit of plausibility despite being sci-fi.

Now what I’ve published for the straight couple’s sex life, post modification is pretty wild, planning on something similar for this new couple as well, though they will know more of what they can do earlier in their part of the story than the other too.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

“

“Realism” is more like it, I wanted something that sounds like if could have the slightest bit of plausibility despite being sci-fi.

Now what I’ve published for the straight couple’s sex life, post modification is pretty wild, planning on something similar for this new couple as well, though they will know more of what they can do earlier in their part of the story than the other too.

More like 'Magical Realism.'

Maybe check these out when you have a minute. I've got a fourth one coming next month.

EDIT; sorry folks, the link is bad.

Here are the stories in that series:

 

[Bramblethorn]

Now the plot twist is that both would be receiving the correct reproductive parts to match their new bodies, but both are also wanting to keep what they were born with, which would technically make them intersex. I started the last story be referring to them as above, “Husband and Wife” and then “He/Him” and “She/Her” respectively then kinda going into “they/them/their” as the go over how they want their new bodies to look after all said and done figuring they are actually planning out this transition and should treat that with the respect that deserves. The changes will take place in my next story and them getting used to their own and each other’s new bodies even more so happen in the story after that. Should the Husband turned Wife now be considered a She since she would appear as such under 95% of the situations they would be in and probably more like 99% for the Wife turned Husband to visually be considered a He?

How do they consider themselves? There's your answer. A woman doesn't stop being "she" because she has a hysterectomy.

Probably better to avoid using the term "intersex" in this one. Technically, yes what you're describing could be considered that, but RL intersex generally doesn't involve having two complete sets of genitals. There's a common misconception that it does, and that misconception causes problems for actual intersex people, so they'd probably appreciate not having a story encourage that belief.

 

[WhoDunIt77]

More like 'Magical Realism.'

Maybe check these out when you have a minute. I've got a fourth one coming next month.

Sounds right

I’ll have to read those later, working on a completely unrelated project right now before I start on my next chapter………yes I’m a procrastinator, but have procrastinated on this one a whole lot longer……..

BTW, this is the story series that I’m working on, but it is way out of order and I’m not sure how to correct it. It should go as follows
https://www.literotica.com/authors/WhoDunIt77/works/stories?sort=name

1. Refurbished
2. Refurbished-The Next Volunteer
3. Refurbished-Testing in 3..2..GUAAAAHHHH!!!!!
4. Refurbished-The Meeting
5. Refurbished-Their First Time
6. Refurbished-The Next Morning
7. Refurbished-The Offer
8. Refurbished-The Next Project

I tried to upload multiple chapters at a time and they were published out of order due to some needing editing.

 

[WhoDunIt77]

How do they consider themselves? There's your answer. A woman doesn't stop being "she" because she has a hysterectomy.

Probably better to avoid using the term "intersex" in this one. Technically, yes what you're describing could be considered that, but RL intersex generally doesn't involve having two complete sets of genitals. There's a common misconception that it does, and that misconception causes problems for actual intersex people, so they'd probably appreciate not having a story encourage that belief.

Honestly, that’s why I’m asking here, guess wasn’t as sure if it would be intersex or hermaphrodite since they would both end up with male and female equipment.

Now when it comes to hysterectomies, I seem to remember something about my Mom telling the nurse that the doctor was “going to make me an it” when she asked Mom what her surgery was going to be…….that nurse apparently didn’t find that anywhere nearly as funny as Mom still did after the drugs wore off post operation and remembered what she told the woman.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Sounds right

I’ll have to read those later, working on a completely unrelated project right now before I start on my next chapter………yes I’m a procrastinator, but have procrastinated on this one a whole lot longer……..

BTW, this is the story series that I’m working on, but it is way out of order and I’m not sure how to correct it. It should go as follows
https://www.literotica.com/authors/WhoDunIt77/works/stories?sort=name

1. Refurbished
2. Refurbished-The Next Volunteer
3. Refurbished-Testing in 3..2..GUAAAAHHHH!!!!!
4. Refurbished-The Meeting
5. Refurbished-Their First Time
6. Refurbished-The Next Morning
7. Refurbished-The Offer
8. Refurbished-The Next Project

I tried to upload multiple chapters at a time and they were published out of order due to some needing editing.

Cool. I look forward to reading them. I only mention mine as they are similar; a company develops tech that changes the patients' gender.

 

[WhoDunIt77]

Cool. I look forward to reading them. I only mention mine as they are similar; a company develops tech that changes the patients' gender.

That definitely sounds like good research, thanks!

 

[896972]

Honestly, that’s why I’m asking here, guess wasn’t as sure if it would be intersex or hermaphrodite since they would both end up with male and female equipment.

just fyi that "hermaphrodite" is a term that has fallen out of use and many intersex people consider offensive or objectifying. (it's possible some intersex folk like it personally, can't guarantee everyone hates it.)

 

[WhoDunIt77]

just fyi that "hermaphrodite" is a term that has fallen out of use and many intersex people consider offensive or objectifying. (it's possible some intersex folk like it personally, can't guarantee everyone hates it.)

Thanks for the heads up then!

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

How do they consider themselves? There's your answer. A woman doesn't stop being "she" because she has a hysterectomy.

Probably better to avoid using the term "intersex" in this one. Technically, yes what you're describing could be considered that, but RL intersex generally doesn't involve having two complete sets of genitals. There's a common misconception that it does, and that misconception causes problems for actual intersex people, so they'd probably appreciate not having a story encourage that belief.

I mentioned this in my missive above, but a friend of my sister's ex-husband is intersex. All she was missing was a vagina. Penis, testicles, uterus, and ovaries. From what my sister said, she's trying to convince the doctor to do Invitro to see if she can get pregnant. Yeah, my sister's friends, ex, yadda, yadda, yadda, but I trust my sister, so...

 

[stickygirl]

Honestly, that’s why I’m asking here, guess wasn’t as sure if it would be intersex or hermaphrodite since they would both end up with male and female equipment.

Maybe think up your own terms, since you're writing fantasy? Have a google, but there's an ancient deity called Agdistis that had m/f sex organs... they became agdistins, agdistophiliacs, agdistopians... have a play!!

just fyi that "hermaphrodite" is a term that has fallen out of use and many intersex people consider offensive or objectifying. (it's possible some intersex folk like it personally, can't guarantee everyone hates it.)

Thanks, yes. Good to have this cleared up and here's a quick word from an intersex person on YT who confirms the word hermaphrodite is used as a slur. Intersex is an umbrella term for a number of different medical conditions but the term is distinct from transgender ( hence the different letters in the LGBTQIA+ acronym ).

Here's a reliable list of intersex conditions - there is an acronym DSD ( differences in sex development ) currently used by DSM5 to cover every intersex variation, but even that term is disputed, but the reasons for that go beyond erotic story writing. There's a well researched and sensitively written book, called Annabel, by Kathleen Winter about an intersex child growing up. Then there's a pretty song from Goldfrapp about a trans child called Annabel, but I'm only showing off

You may see different numbers quoted for the percentage of intersex people in society, with one study claiming 0.018% while every other resource saying around 1.7% - about the same as people born as red-heads. The reason being terms of reference - some researchers excluded variations listed under DSM5 making the number much smaller..

So when someone claims 'there are only men and women' with reference to medical science, they are incorrect. If they claim what they really meant was how the words have been used linguistically in the past, it's difficult to disagree... but then we used to burn witches. In a discussion centred on sex and gender one needs to be less rigid in ones thinking or someone will kick ones soapbox from under one.

 

[Omenainen]

As you may have noticed, a good number of AHers are avoiding this thread, I suspect for those exact reasons.

Assigning motivations to people for not saying anything is a nonsense position.

 

[WhoDunIt77]

Maybe think up your own terms, since you're writing fantasy? Have a google, but there's an ancient deity called Agdistis that had m/f sex organs... they became agdistins, agdistophiliacs, agdistopians... have a play!!

Thanks, yes. Good to have this cleared up and here's a quick word from an intersex person on YT who confirms the word hermaphrodite is used as a slur. Intersex is an umbrella term for a number of different medical conditions but the term is distinct from transgender ( hence the different letters in the LGBTQIA+ acronym ).

Here's a reliable list of intersex conditions - there is an acronym DSD ( differences in sex development ) currently used by DSM5 to cover every intersex variation, but even that term is disputed, but the reasons for that go beyond erotic story writing. There's a well researched and sensitively written book, called Annabel, by Kathleen Winter about an intersex child growing up. Then there's a pretty song from Goldfrapp about a trans child called Annabel, but I'm only showing off

You may see different numbers quoted for the percentage of intersex people in society, with one study claiming 0.018% while every other resource saying around 1.7% - about the same as people born as red-heads. The reason being terms of reference - some researchers excluded variations listed under DSM5 making the number much smaller..

So when someone claims 'there are only men and women' with reference to medical science, they are incorrect. If they claim what they really meant was how the words have been used linguistically in the past, it's difficult to disagree... but then we used to burn witches. In a discussion centred on sex and gender one needs to be less rigid in ones thinking or someone will kick ones soapbox from under one.

Thank you in every way possible, I really appreciate it.

I’m not always sure how much I can trust search engines due to algorithms vs just wanting the right answer, especially not being sure what are the correct questions to ask to get the right answer and not stumble into some echo chamber that would be thoroughly biased, so things is appreciated!

 

[StillStunned]

There's no discussion here. There are no opposing views being discussed and arguments offered.

Speaking for myself, this thread isn't a place for discussion but for education.

 

[WhoDunIt77]

Speaking for myself, this thread isn't a place for discussion but for education.

This is exactly the impression I got of this thread earlier.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Speaking for myself, this thread isn't a place for discussion but for education.

If your idea of education is to unquestioningly accept what anonymous people post on an internet forum, then you and I have a very, very different idea of what education means.

Even in my classroom, students are encouraged to rationally question my assertions. That's the essence of critical thinking. Here, I see only axioms and dogma. And if you feel you can be educated about anything in such a setup, on an anonymous internet forum of all places, then go ahead.

 

[StillStunned]

If your idea of education is to unquestioningly accept what anonymous people post on an internet forum, then you and I have a very, very different idea of what education means.

Even in my classroom, students are encouraged to rationally question my assertions. That's the essence of critical thinking. Here, I see only axioms and dogma. And if you feel you can be educated about anything in such a setup, on an anonymous internet forum of all places, then go ahead.

I see people sharing their lived experiences and informed opinions on a subject that's almost entirely outside my own knowledge. What value is there in me questioning any of that?

Upthread you accused @old_prof of being argumentative. But most of the arguing for the sake of it comes from you.

 

[stickygirl]

If your idea of education is to unquestioningly accept what anonymous people post on an internet forum, then you and I have a very, very different idea of what education means.

Even in my classroom, students are encouraged to rationally question my assertions. That's the essence of critical thinking. Here, I see only axioms and dogma. And if you feel you can be educated about anything in such a setup, on an anonymous internet forum of all places, then go ahead.

Assert away - all I've read from you is complaints that there is no discussion. You complain that this has all been said before, yet claim to be a teacher. You claim the thread is destined to become inflammatory and do everything to ensure it does - by refusing to engage with the topic but instead attacking those who choose to do so.

We can all see what you doing and it's very tiresome. I wish other people would stop rattling your cage.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Interesting. You seem to be saying that a person can either stay the gender assigned to the genitalia they are born with, or switch. At the same time you seem to be disallowing the transitive state in-between. At what point do I, a trans woman, stop being a man and become a woman? Is dressing and getting good at makeup enough? Are hormones the key? Do I have to have surgery, and if so, which ones or do I have to have all of them?

I'm not making fun of your view. Instead, I'm trying to understand so maybe we can come to a mutual agreement on what this all means. Even non-trans biology lives on a spectrum. There are some very pretty men out there, i.e., David Bowie, Prince, and some very masculine women, i.e., Ellen DeGeneres, Pink(my opinion).
Some of the pretty boys have no desire to be women just like some very masculine men would give anything to be a girl. I'm pretty sure neither Ellen or Pink want to be men. I'm decidedly, and unfortunately more masculine than feminine but have significant gynecomastia to go with my dysphoria. What does that do to my placement?

Part of the issue here is that it's not just physical biology at play. It's how our psychology matches up with those physical attributes. Some dysphoria is so sever it's debilitating. Some is mild enough that getting your nails and hair done in a more androgenous manner may be enough.

I guess what I'm hoping to help you understand is that there is no one size fits all answer to this equation, and, at the same time, get a better grasp of your thinking so perhaps we can both come to a place of understanding and productive discussion. Absolutes are rarely the answer just like name calling rarely helps find understanding.

My main thing is, one just can't be a null gender, unless they're some degree of hermaphrodite. Just like I told that other user; a mans a man, a womans a woman. Prince was a man, regardless of how fem he looked, he was one and wanted to be one. Same for Jane Lynch or Pink.

I know folks who identify as women, and the most physical change is the clothes and wigs. It's their state of mind. Just like butches who do everything but claim being a man.

 

[stickygirl]

My main thing is, one just can't be a null gender, unless they're some degree of hermaphrodite. Just like I told that other user; a mans a man, a womans a woman. Prince was a man, regardless of how fem he looked, he was one and wanted to be one. Same for Jane Lynch or Pink.

I know folks who identify as women, and the most physical change is the clothes and wigs. It's their state of mind. Just like butches who do everything but claim being a man.

Okay, I hear ya. So... how does it feel to be a man? If we were somehow able to hide your genitals from your view how would you know you were male?

 

[Nynah]

My main thing is, one just can't be a null gender

History disagrees with you.

A Brief History of Nonbinary Gender: From Ancient Times to the Early Modern Period
Non-Binary People In History and Across Cultures
Third Gender from Wikipedia

People who don't conform to the gender binary have existed for as long as humans have existed. They have, do and will continue to exist despite your inability to comprehend them.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

They have, can and will continue to exist despite your inability to comprehend them.

Thanks Cap'n Obvious.

 

[lovecraft68]

Against my better judgement I've been sucked in to replying because I'm tired of the bullying faction of the forum who constantly push their opinions down people's throats and take advantage of checking the right political boxes of their friends and groupies here.

The same people who say believe the science are the same people who ignore biology.

You can identify as what you want, call yourself a quart of oil if you want, but end of the day...

There are only two biological genders, and unless you go all in and add or remove parts, you are what's between your legs, not your ears.

This is common sense to the majority of the population, but most fear saying it because of how angry the minority gets and they don't want to be called names. They do this to the point they will sit back and allow their daughter, sisters and wives be abused in sports or subjected to men in their bathrooms and showers. These are the people who say they defend women's rights then won't use the term mother because according to them men can get pregnant (back to biology again) Another example of one group trying to elevate by attacking and denigrating another.

I do believe in people's right to be happy however they want to be, as in feel free to feel free. But don't be free with me or anyone else but yourself. You lose that right when you want to infringe on the rights of others and constantly on the attack while also playing perpetual victim. They want to argue but not be argued with. The 'inclusive" people here make constant remarks about old white men, white men, cis men, and anyone else they want which are sexist, racist and bigoted remarks, but you know, not when they say them.

End of the day the truth of the matter is fairy tales are not facts and facts do not care about feelings.