Question to editors...and writers

[CopyCarver]

Glad youre back I wasn't mad because nobody was there, it was something different - I took RL up on her offer to rant via PM... hope I don't scare her off

How do you like editing thus far?

 

[RogueLurker]

Glad youre back I wasn't mad because nobody was there, it was something different - I took RL up on her offer to rant via PM... hope I don't scare her off

You didn't scare me off .... I was just cuddling with my dog and explaining to my partner that you're not my imaginary playmates and we really are forming a club with a green list and all.

PM coming back ... in a minute.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Glad youre back I wasn't mad because nobody was there, it was something different - I took RL up on her offer to rant via PM... hope I don't scare her off

I'm back my babies.....you can rant to me also Jen.

 

[fieryjen]

How do you like editing thus far?

Er... you mean the one storyI have edited up to this point, or the company here?

Great

You didn't scare me off .... I was just cuddling with my dog and explaining to my partner that you're not my imaginary playmates and we really are forming a club with a green list and all.

PM coming back ... in a minute.

Lol Thanks so much for listening I don't often need to rant this badly, but when it happens, I really need to let it out. *sigh*

 

[LadyCibelle]

*cough* bullshit *cough*

And THAT Ladies and Gentlemen is a Lady gracing US of her presence.

Did I tell you all that I'm totally in awe of Miss Cloudy. If there's only ONE person you have to know in the whole world to make your life complete...that person is Cloudy.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Oh, I'm not normally, lol. I'm just very self-deprecating in my humor, which doesn't tend to translate well through the Internet.

So, the basic idea is setting up a "phonebook" of editors, n'est ce pas?

Cool.. who do I have to sell my soul to to get an ad? I haven't got a great deal on my plate editing wise atm (well, besides a ton of fanfic), and I can always make room for more.

That's why Deity invented insomnia, after all.

Falling: You're not ignored. The system isn't implemented yet. When it is, you'll see a thread with all the info needed to get your sweet...ugh....your name in the list.

 

[fieryjen]

And THAT Ladies and Gentlemen is a Lady gracing US of her presence.

Did I tell you all that I'm totally in awe of Miss Cloudy. If there's only ONE person you have to know in the whole world to make your life complete...that person is Cloudy.

*bows*

 

[CopyCarver]

And THAT Ladies and Gentlemen is a Lady gracing US of her presence.

Did I tell you all that I'm totally in awe of Miss Cloudy. If there's only ONE person you have to know in the whole world to make your life complete...that person is Cloudy.

Haven't had the pleasure, but I'm a big fan of her work.

 

[RogueLurker]

And THAT Ladies and Gentlemen is a Lady gracing US of her presence.

Did I tell you all that I'm totally in awe of Miss Cloudy. If there's only ONE person you have to know in the whole world to make your life complete...that person is Cloudy.

And all this time I thought it was LadyCibelle that made life complete ...

Hi Cloudy! Wanna join the Green List?

 

[LadyCibelle]

Haven't had the pleasure, but I'm a big fan of her work.

She's quite a nice lady. She comes across as hard to approach at times but I think it's a defense mechanism more than anything. Once you've gotten through her barrier you discover that sweet and kind soul.

 

[LadyCibelle]

And all this time I thought it was LadyCibelle that made life complete ...

Hi Cloudy! Wanna join the Green List?

Tsk, tsk Rogue...I make YOUR life complete.

 

[kbate]

Removed because not in agreement with moderator, didn't know that was worthy of scorn.

 

[FallingToFly]

Falling: You're not ignored. The system isn't implemented yet. When it is, you'll see a thread with all the info needed to get your sweet...ugh....your name in the list.

Didn't think I was being ignored, and it was another feeble attempt at a joke on my part. >.< I told you my humor doesn't transfer well digitally!!

ETA: kbate: I can understand your reservations, but there's a lot of beginning authors out there who can be devastated by a callous, or simply incompetent editor while taking those first fledgling flights. If they have a "safe" list, with some actual feedback that -doesn't- come from the editors, it may give them more confidence in future endeavors.

Also, and forgive me if this seems like a slam - if the Lit staff wasn't already overworked, I'm sure they'd have done this long ago. As it is, we're kind of on our own on this. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and their comments, but in this case, I must respectfully disagree with yours.

 

[LadyCibelle]

I do not believe such a list should be posted on this forum or anywhere on the site. If the editors were Lit staff rather than volunteer editors, I would feel otherwise, but the editors here are not paid employees and deserve credit (even if bad) for volunteering time and effort.

Editing is not an equation, and each editor has their own style, good or bad.

Nobody is talking about not giving credit to an editor. Quite the contrary! We're simply talking about creating a list where writers would know that those on said list are doing a good job.

Haven't you ever had writers tell you how poorly their story has been edited by someone? I have, countless times and it's those "poor" editors who are giving us a bad name. I'm sick and tired of people complaining that the editors' list is good for nothing when it's because a part of it is rotten apples and brings us down with them.

I want to give the editors' list the good name it deserves and I'll do everything I have to to make it so.

I'll make enemy I'm sure but so be it....I'm not here to make friends anyway.

 

[kbate]

Yes, I have been second editor on more than one story. I do not ask the writer who the first editor was, as it is not my business. The writer is ultimately responsible for the quality of their story, not the editor.

When I do a story, my only guarantee to the writer is that the story will be accepted, and so far I haven't had to pay up (mythical dollars). I do not guarantee good reception or good ratings, that part is up to the writer.

People are going to complain no matter what names are on the editor's list. Writers with the big "rejected" on their submission page, always feel slighted and wronged and few stop to think the fault is theirs, especially if an editor looked over the story.

I agree, some editors probably are not good, and I could name at least two I would not use for even grade school papers. But is it really for me to say; someone who isn't even on the list, and only picks up writers who read my story reviews or through answering forum threads.

On the other hand, the forum is all about free speech, and if you wanted to start a thead about editors, the good, the bad, the illiterate.... I would not object, but I can see it as being nothing more than a vent thread for the rejected.

*

 

[LadyCibelle]

Yes, I have been second editor on more than one story. I do not ask the writer who the first editor was, as it is not my business. The writer is ultimately responsible for the quality of their story, not the editor.

When I do a story, my only guarantee to the writer is that the story will be accepted, and so far I haven't had to pay up (mythical dollars). I do not guarantee good reception or good ratings, that part is up to the writer.

People are going to complain no matter what names are on the editor's list. Writers with the big "rejected" on their submission page, always feel slighted and wronged and few stop to think the fault is theirs, especially if an editor looked over the story.

I agree, some editors probably are not good, and I could name at least two I would not use for even grade school papers. But is it really for me to say; someone who isn't even on the list, and only picks up writers who read my story reviews or through answering forum threads.

On the other hand, the forum is all about free speech, and if you wanted to start a thead about editors, the good, the bad, the illiterate.... I would not object, but I can see it as being nothing more than a vent thread for the rejected.

I think you misunderstand or misunderstood me here. Let me try to clarify my intent.

My list, or should I say what I'd like it to be, has nothing to do with rejected stories or not. If the story is rejected...so be it...it is rejected. The process of editing and doing a good job of it comes much earlier.

I'm talking about writers coming to you (well not you in particular) with their story fully edited by someone else, you can see the editing as they've used a different colour than the writer, you can also see it because they used the reviewing feature of Microsoft Word, and they've left comment with their "name". But, when you look at the story and the "editing" they've done it's just a whole lot of garbage. I mean the story isn't edited at all, the "editor" has corrected things that shouldn't have been (there was no errors), made change where none were necessary...to put it simply...added more errors than when they story was first written.

Believe me or not, I've had my share of writers with stories "edited" like that. Do you really want to have your name associated with that kind of "editors"? I know I don't! I don't want anyone to think that an editor can and is allowed to do something like that freely.

That's the purpose of the "green list" I'm trying to build. A list where writers could come and see editors who have been recommended by writers. It's too easy to say: "I've been editing for X many years, I have a degree in this and that, work for this one or that one newspaper."

The old proverb saying "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" is fully applicable here. What better proof of what you (the editor) can and cannot do than to have writers who've worked with you vouch for your qualification?

 

[kbate]

~removed~

 

[FallingToFly]

Kbate:

I see where you're coming from (I think my original suggestion had something to do with making it possible to rate Volunteer Editors the same way you rate stories.. it would be a simple thing to do, as the code's already written, then only thing the Admin would really need to do is change "Rate this story" to "Rate this Editor" and put it on every VE bio page. I suppose they could put the public comment feature up as well, if they really wanted to...

The main problem that's been expressed here, K, is that the Lit Admin is already overstressed, overworked, and understaffed. (Case in point: the current wee to two weeks lag on submissions.) Asking them to do one more thing might result in all of us being beaten to death with smoked trout.

So, if we don't do it, or at least make an attempt at it... who will?

FtF

 

[cloudy]

She's quite a nice lady. She comes across as hard to approach at times but I think it's a defense mechanism more than anything. Once you've gotten through her barrier you discover that sweet and kind soul.

shhhhh! You'll ruin my reputation.

CopyCarver: thank you!

 

[kbate]

FallingToFly:
"So, if we don't do it, or at least make an attempt at it... who will?"

How are readers to rate the editor if the do not have access to the original manuscript? Nobody knows from the final copy what the editor had to go through to reach that point.

I simply do not see self-policing through public humiliation as an option. I seek a better solution, one involving those who earn livings from our efforts.

The idea of the volunteer editor's list allowing rating and voting works, but then just as with the contests, it is possible to troll editors out of existence. "let's all go vote 1 on Lady Cibelle's latest editing butchery."

*

 

[CopyCarver]

FallingToFly:
"So, if we don't do it, or at least make an attempt at it... who will?"

How are readers to rate the editor if the do not have access to the original manuscript? Nobody knows from the final copy what the editor had to go through to reach that point.

I simply do not see self-policing through public humiliation as an option. I seek a better solution, one involving those who earn livings from our efforts.

The idea of the volunteer editor's list allowing rating and voting works, but then just as with the contests, it is possible to troll editors out of existence. "let's all go vote 1 on Lady Cibelle's latest editing butchery."

I know exactly what you're saying. I once had a private client who flamed me for months because I succeeded in placing her novel at a major publishing house. (She'd read about the advances commanded by uber-star writers and was furious I got her "only" a $10,000 advance and 12.5% royalties and because I only retained film rights instead of getting her a guarantee of a movie contract.) A guy who had written an otherwise semi-decent historical novel waxed furious when I pointed out that Pulaski was Polish, not French, and that he was involved in the Revolutionary War, not the Civil War.

This is absurd, of course, but it's a fact of life for editors and publishers as well as writers. An extremely good story by an outstanding writer was recently one-bombed outrageously right after other people publicly praised it, and another of "my writers" was subjected to personal attacks because "anonymous" didn't like the genre he chose to read. My best guess is that this garbage is an inescapable fact of life and that we too must suffer some slings and arrows.

Your point about the (ideally) invisibility of good editing is right on target. There is probably no way a reader can distinguish a well-edited manuscript from a well-written one. I suspect there's no feasible way to avoid both praise and curses that we don't deserve.

 

[kbate]

~removed~

 

[fieryjen]

We tried to avoid the flaming and bitching part by creating the green list. No rating of editors will be going on. Nobody will be put on any kind of embarrassing black list. The greenlist would simply be a service to new writers who do not have editors and wish to avoid something like what was discussed in the other thread from happening.

It would be optional for writers to use, it would be optional for editors to ask to be put on the list. It would simply be our way of saying "look, we recommend using one of these editors if you're worried about integrity, because those have done a decent job so far".Not "these editors suck" or even "everyone who is not on this list sucks".

I felt like this clarification was needed, my apologies if it wasn't.

 

[CopyCarver]

We tried to avoid the flaming and bitching part by creating the green list. No rating of editors will be going on. Nobody will be put on any kind of embarrassing black list. The greenlist would simply be a service to new writers who do not have editors and wish to avoid something like what was discussed in the other thread from happening.

It would be optional for writers to use, it would be optional for editors to ask to be put on the list. It would simply be our way of saying "look, we recommend using one of these editors if you're worried about integrity, because those have done a decent job so far".Not "these editors suck" or even "everyone who is not on this list sucks".

I felt like this clarification was needed, my apologies if it wasn't.

Sounds good.

On the other hand, why should my ex be the only one who has an opportunity to tell me that I suck?

 

[kbate]

~removed~