Razzy & Bear's Reading Group

[DLL]

i am not loving it so far.. but i will finish it...maybe its because i am not feeling well and read it late at night

 

[elizabeth22673]

got my book in the mail yesterday. i read the first 10 pages or so...

so far so good

should we have a certain page/chapter we should try to get through before this weekend?

 

[done_got_old]

i am not loving it so far.. but i will finish it...maybe its because i am not feeling well and read it late at night

I'm in the same boat. I just can't get into it yet.

 

[Guest]

Awww... sorry folks...

There is not set target Liz... everyone reads at a different pace and has different spare time. I think it'd be good to have a multi convo some time to discuss it in depth... so people can join or not... but be warned spoilers may abound.... here I would keep comments in general terms until everyone has read it, and then we can let rip....

I agree in that I found it easy to get into, but have reached a point where it's hard going and the english (especially from a character Turtle Heart) is very difficult for me to read. I also don't like the way he seems to just introduce things from left field with no set-up or explanation. Smacks of lazy writing and deus ex machina to me... a little like the sub-space anomalies that turned up at the end of every Star Trek:The Next Generation episode (either that or a tachyon beam emitter)

I still am enjoying it on the whole, but am getting a bit irritated by it too......

 

[Dragonteeth]

Awww... sorry folks...

There is not set target Liz... everyone reads at a different pace and has different spare time. I think it'd be good to have a multi convo some time to discuss it in depth... so people can join or not... but be warned spoilers may abound.... here I would keep comments in general terms until everyone has read it, and then we can let rip....

I agree in that I found it easy to get into, but have reached a point where it's hard going and the english (especially from a character Turtle Heart) is very difficult for me to read. I also don't like the way he seems to just introduce things from left field with no set-up or explanation. Smacks of lazy writing and deus ex machina to me... a little like the sub-space anomalies that turned up at the end of every Star Trek:The Next Generation episode (either that or a tachyon beam emitter)

I still am enjoying it on the whole, but am getting a bit irritated by it too......

I didn't find any problem reading the different dialects, but the story arc does seem to skip about a little. I can only reassure you that there is a kind of resolution at the end, but you need to keep an open mind. You probably should bear in mind also that the author had the unenviable task of fitting in his story around the landmark plot points of someone elses story, and a very well known story at that.

 

[Razzbeary]

OK, I've had some trouble getting into the first parts of it too, but now I'm into the second part (Gillikin) and am enjoying it so much.

Hopefully soon we can maybe have one of our first discussions about it as DB has suggested. What does everyone else think?

I'm off to read another chapter.. Y'all take care!

 

[AboutFace]

Don't fret about it skipping around a little bit. After you've read it, you'll understand why you had problems following it. First - we've all been raised on the movie "The Wizard of Oz". Second, not as many people have read the original books, so the story seems a bit "off" to us.
This book does a wonderful job piecing all of the Oz books together and showing the story from another perspective.
It is just very difficult for any of us to forget the movie that most of us have seen in our childhood.

I can't wait to really start talking about this book.

 

[Dragonteeth]

Don't fret about it skipping around a little bit. After you've read it, you'll understand why you had problems following it. First - we've all been raised on the movie "The Wizard of Oz". Second, not as many people have read the original books, so the story seems a bit "off" to us.
This book does a wonderful job piecing all of the Oz books together and showing the story from another perspective.
It is just very difficult for any of us to forget the movie that most of us have seen in our childhood.

I can't wait to really start talking about this book.

True enough, though I was prepared for that. Over all i enjoyed it, and I'd love to see the show. If only to get a good look at my friends costumes.

 

[southerntierguy]

I've got the book and have started reading it .. about 100 pages in.

Unfortunately, I've been on late night pager duty every other night last 3 weeks dealing with troublesome customer. I'm so damn tired I can't keep my eyes open to read these days. Messing my head up as well ... can't seem to keep my emotions in check that well.

Anyway, I just stopped in briefly ... if I don't join in the discussion on this book, I will for future books. I do enjoy this one so far though.

 

[pink]

i'd still like to join but money is so tight this month, i'll catch the next book.

 

[TheDivineMsM]

Yep... anyone can join....

And start whenever you want to.... I am about 100 pages in.

I have the group now at...

Me
Razzy
Pink
done_got_old (if she can get the book)
AboutFace
southerntierguy
BlackWolf65
DLL
elizabeth22673
Bacetti
metaltwister

Please add me too!

 

[Bacetti]

i'd still like to join but money is so tight this month, i'll catch the next book.

Hey sweets, I can send you my copy if you like. No problem, really.

 

[metaltwister]

It must be spring...when I pick up the book to read a bit more, the phone rings while someone is pounding on the door...and so it goes. Let the madness ensue...

 

[metaltwister]

Howdy all...getting close to the end and have been enjoying it. Does anyone else have the readers club questions in the back of the book? Just wonderin'....

 

[DLL]

I am still NOT loving this book!!!!! but i will say its the damn wizard of oz images in my head from the movie somehow little cute munchinlanders saying fuck still kill me...lol

 

[Guest]

Please add me too!

Of course you are added MsM.

I must admit my initial joy at the book is wearing thin, and I have started and finished others and am catching up on comic books I have piled up. It isn't holding my interest....

Have people at least finished the first part and we can discuss that here?

And nope... sorry.. I don't have that version metaltwister.

 

[AboutFace]

I'm looking forward to starting the discussion. I really liked this book - but I was also able to separate myself from the movie. I had always preferred the books, so it wasn't that difficult.

 

[DLL]

i am ready to discuss the first part ...i saw the play last week on broadway and that was awesome!!!!

 

[elizabeth22673]

sorry all, i haven't gotten that far either...it does seem interesting...just have to take time to read it

 

[Dragonteeth]

Howdy all...getting close to the end and have been enjoying it. Does anyone else have the readers club questions in the back of the book? Just wonderin'....

Hi all, been taking a break from the world for a spell but I could be back for a while.

I haven't read that version either metaltwister, how many questions are there? Would it be feasable to post them here?

I've had to give the book back to my friend now so I can't reffer back to it, but I can definately relate to the comments by DLL. It took me a little while to come to tearms with some of the charachters I'd loved from my childhood using language and indeed doing things that would make my mother's hair curl.

 

[DLL]

ok i cant read this book anymore it is not holding my interest...I am withdrawing from this discussion as I can not add anything positive to it other than save the money and go to the broadway show

 

[metaltwister]

For those that have been able to hang in and read this book, here are the first seven questions from the Readers Group Guide in the back of the edition I have. (There are 14 in total)

1. Gregory Maguire fashioned the name of Elphaba (pronounced EL-fa-ba) from the initials of the author of The Wizard of Oz, ***** Frank Baum -- L-F-B-- Elphaba. Wicked derives some of its power from the popularity of its source material. Does meeting up with familiar characters and famous fictional situations require more patience and effort on the part of the reader, or less?

2. Wicked flips the Oz we knew from the classic movie on its head. To what extent does Maguire's vision of Oz contradict the Oz we're familiar with? How have Dorothy and the other characters changed or remained the same? Has Wicked changed your conception of the original? If so, how?

3. The novel opens with a scene in which the Witch overhears Dorothy, the lion the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman gosiping about her. She's "possessed by demons" they say. "She was castrated at birth...she was an abused child...she's a dangerous tyrant." How does this scene set the stage for the story, and what themes does it introduce?

4. What is the significance of Elphaba's green skin? What are the rewards of being so different, and what are the drawbacks? In Oz- and in the real world- what are the meanings associated with the color green and are any of them pertinent to Elphaba'a character?

5. One of Wicked's key themes is the nature and roots of evil. What are the theories that Maguire sets out? Is Elphaba evil? Are her actions evil? Is there such a thing as evil, a free-floating power in the universe like time or gravity? Or is evil and attribute of the actions of human beings? (Look at chapter 4, In the Vinkus, the last page before section 2-Oatsie is talking about the Oziad. Also look at the end of section 7 in The Murder and Its Afterlife that begins with "A pleasure to some," said the Margeavess, who hadn't approved of the conversation. "I think it improper to talk about evil all during a meal. It spoils the digestion."

6. Discuss the importance of the Clock of the Time Dragon. Does the Clock simply reflect events, or does it shape them? Why is it significant that Elphaba was born inside it? That Turtle Heart was killed by it? What revelations does it offer to Elphaba and the reader when she reencounters it at the end of the book?

7. The first section of the book ends powerfully but enigmatically when the young Elphaba is discovered under the dock, cradled in the paws of a magical beast as if sitting on a throne. How do you interpret this scene, and what do you think it foretells, if anything?


These first 7 ought to keep those diehards of us engaged for a bit.

I discovered that if I ignored anything I knew from the books or the movie, that this became an interesting read on its' own. I really needed a different mindset to get into this story.

 

[Guest]

For those that have been able to hang in and read this book, here are the first seven questions from the Readers Group Guide in the back of the edition I have. (There are 14 in total)

1. Gregory Maguire fashioned the name of Elphaba (pronounced EL-fa-ba) from the initials of the author of The Wizard of Oz, ***** Frank Baum -- L-F-B-- Elphaba. Wicked derives some of its power from the popularity of its source material. Does meeting up with familiar characters and famous fictional situations require more patience and effort on the part of the reader, or less?

2. Wicked flips the Oz we knew from the classic movie on its head. To what extent does Maguire's vision of Oz contradict the Oz we're familiar with? How have Dorothy and the other characters changed or remained the same? Has Wicked changed your conception of the original? If so, how?

3. The novel opens with a scene in which the Witch overhears Dorothy, the lion the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman gosiping about her. She's "possessed by demons" they say. "She was castrated at birth...she was an abused child...she's a dangerous tyrant." How does this scene set the stage for the story, and what themes does it introduce?

4. What is the significance of Elphaba's green skin? What are the rewards of being so different, and what are the drawbacks? In Oz- and in the real world- what are the meanings associated with the color green and are any of them pertinent to Elphaba'a character?

5. One of Wicked's key themes is the nature and roots of evil. What are the theories that Maguire sets out? Is Elphaba evil? Are her actions evil? Is there such a thing as evil, a free-floating power in the universe like time or gravity? Or is evil and attribute of the actions of human beings? (Look at chapter 4, In the Vinkus, the last page before section 2-Oatsie is talking about the Oziad. Also look at the end of section 7 in The Murder and Its Afterlife that begins with "A pleasure to some," said the Margeavess, who hadn't approved of the conversation. "I think it improper to talk about evil all during a meal. It spoils the digestion."

6. Discuss the importance of the Clock of the Time Dragon. Does the Clock simply reflect events, or does it shape them? Why is it significant that Elphaba was born inside it? That Turtle Heart was killed by it? What revelations does it offer to Elphaba and the reader when she reencounters it at the end of the book?

7. The first section of the book ends powerfully but enigmatically when the young Elphaba is discovered under the dock, cradled in the paws of a magical beast as if sitting on a throne. How do you interpret this scene, and what do you think it foretells, if anything?


These first 7 ought to keep those diehards of us engaged for a bit.

I discovered that if I ignored anything I knew from the books or the movie, that this became an interesting read on its' own. I really needed a different mindset to get into this story.

FANTASTIC

Thanks for posting those MT

I hope people will answer them... I certainly will soon.

I'm such a doofus I hadn't even realised her name was basically L Frank Baum's initials. Ooops.

 

[pink]

Hey sweets, I can send you my copy if you like. No problem, really.

That would be great. PM coming.

 

[metaltwister]

I'm a bit dense, as well. I was too involved in the story to think of something as simple as that for a character name... as I've said before, brain death is a wonderful thing...

In regards to the first and second questions, my conception of the original material hasn't changed. This book takes the original characters and introduces them with a skewed, shifted view...somewhat like deconstruction of foods...the actual flavor may be hidden by a different construction / view.

The Lion, Scarecrow and Tin Woodsman as gossips, Dorothy as a not so innocent farmgirl, Glinda as a social climber, the Wizard as a malicious tyrant...what fun.