Razzy & Bear's Reading Group

[DLL]

For those that have been able to hang in and read this book, here are the first seven questions from the Readers Group Guide in the back of the edition I have. (There are 14 in total)

1. Gregory Maguire fashioned the name of Elphaba (pronounced EL-fa-ba) from the initials of the author of The Wizard of Oz, ***** Frank Baum -- L-F-B-- Elphaba. Wicked derives some of its power from the popularity of its source material. Does meeting up with familiar characters and famous fictional situations require more patience and effort on the part of the reader, or less?

2. Wicked flips the Oz we knew from the classic movie on its head. To what extent does Maguire's vision of Oz contradict the Oz we're familiar with? How have Dorothy and the other characters changed or remained the same? Has Wicked changed your conception of the original? If so, how?

3. The novel opens with a scene in which the Witch overhears Dorothy, the lion the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman gosiping about her. She's "possessed by demons" they say. "She was castrated at birth...she was an abused child...she's a dangerous tyrant." How does this scene set the stage for the story, and what themes does it introduce?

4. What is the significance of Elphaba's green skin? What are the rewards of being so different, and what are the drawbacks? In Oz- and in the real world- what are the meanings associated with the color green and are any of them pertinent to Elphaba'a character?

5. One of Wicked's key themes is the nature and roots of evil. What are the theories that Maguire sets out? Is Elphaba evil? Are her actions evil? Is there such a thing as evil, a free-floating power in the universe like time or gravity? Or is evil and attribute of the actions of human beings? (Look at chapter 4, In the Vinkus, the last page before section 2-Oatsie is talking about the Oziad. Also look at the end of section 7 in The Murder and Its Afterlife that begins with "A pleasure to some," said the Margeavess, who hadn't approved of the conversation. "I think it improper to talk about evil all during a meal. It spoils the digestion."

6. Discuss the importance of the Clock of the Time Dragon. Does the Clock simply reflect events, or does it shape them? Why is it significant that Elphaba was born inside it? That Turtle Heart was killed by it? What revelations does it offer to Elphaba and the reader when she reencounters it at the end of the book?

7. The first section of the book ends powerfully but enigmatically when the young Elphaba is discovered under the dock, cradled in the paws of a magical beast as if sitting on a throne. How do you interpret this scene, and what do you think it foretells, if anything?


These first 7 ought to keep those diehards of us engaged for a bit.

I discovered that if I ignored anything I knew from the books or the movie, that this became an interesting read on its' own. I really needed a different mindset to get into this story.

thats pretty cool about her name....

 

[AboutFace]

I picked up on her name rather quickly, but that is because I'd always adored the original stories.
I thought that this book was a perfect opposite and compliment to the original series. (can't even begin to compare it to the movie, which is nothing like Baum's books) I think this book focuses more on the complexity of people and how they are often different from our perceptions. (Just look at Glinda.... VERY different.... and more believable in the way this book presents her)

I'm a bit dense, as well. I was too involved in the story to think of something as simple as that for a character name... as I've said before, brain death is a wonderful thing...

In regards to the first and second questions, my conception of the original material hasn't changed. This book takes the original characters and introduces them with a skewed, shifted view...somewhat like deconstruction of foods...the actual flavor may be hidden by a different construction / view.

The Lion, Scarecrow and Tin Woodsman as gossips, Dorothy as a not so innocent farmgirl, Glinda as a social climber, the Wizard as a malicious tyrant...what fun.

 

[metaltwister]

I picked up on her name rather quickly, but that is because I'd always adored the original stories.
I thought that this book was a perfect opposite and compliment to the original series. (can't even begin to compare it to the movie, which is nothing like Baum's books) I think this book focuses more on the complexity of people and how they are often different from our perceptions. (Just look at Glinda.... VERY different.... and more believable in the way this book presents her)

I have to agree about the complexity of the characters in relation to real world situations. This also strikes me as an elongated story of the grey areas of life, rather than just good and evil.

It also seems quite believable, from the descriptions of the governmental methods enacted by the Wizard. Many interesting twists and views in this tale...

Which brings me to question 5- Evil and the roots thereof...
I'm pretty well convinced that the concept of evil depends on whether or not you're the one doing the deed or the one being done to...to quote Oatsie, "...It is at the very least a question of definitions..."

 

[metaltwister]

...adding the other seven questions...

8. The place of Animals in society is an important theme in Wicked. Why does Elphaba make it her mission to fight for Animal rights? HOw else does social class define Oz, and why?

9. "(Galinda) reasoned that because she was beautiful she was significant, though what she signfied, and to whom, was not clear to her yet" Discuss the transformation of Galinda, shallow Shiz student, to Glinda the Good Witch. How does she change- and by how much? What is her eventual "significance," both in Oz and in the story?

10. Discuss the ways in which Elphaba's determination and willfulness lend purpose and order to her life, and the cost of being such a strong character. Elphaba isn't the only strong female character in Wicked. How do Nessarose, Glinda, and Sarima deal with issues of power and control? Where fo each of them draw strength from? Is the world of Maguire's Oz more or less patriarchal than millenial America?

11. Wicked is an epic story, built along the lines of a Shakespearean or Greek tragedy, in which the seeds of Elphaba's destiny are all sown early in the novel. How much of Elphaba's career is predestined, and how much choice does she have? Do you think that she was no more than a puppet of the Wizard or Madame Morrible, as she fears?

12. Early in their unlikely friendship, Galinda catches a glimpse of Elphaba and thinks she "looked like someting between and animal and an Animal, like something more than life but not quite Life." Discuss the dual, and sometimes contradictory nature of Elphaba's character. Why does Elphaba insist that she doesn't have a soul?

13. Who or what is Yackle? Where does she appear in the story, and what role does she serve in Elphaba's life? Is she good or evil- both or neither?

14. Was Elphaba's story essentially a tragedy or a triumph? Did she fail at every major endeavor, and thus fail at life: or because she refused to give up or change to suit the opinions of others, was her life a success? Is there a possibility that Dorothy's "baptismal splash" redeemed Elphaba on her deathbed, or was this the final indignity in a life of miserable mistakes?

Now I have to go back through the book with a pencil and begin commentary to myself...old habits. ( I rather like the idea of tiktokism...)

 

[metaltwister]

So did everyone give up, or is spring taking it's toll on indoor activities...reading activities, that is.

 

[Razzbeary]

So did everyone give up, or is spring taking it's toll on indoor activities...reading activities, that is.

Hi mt! I think it's spring, which then turned back to winter for some of us.. LOL.

I am plugging right along with the book. Found that after getting through the first section it has been a much easier read for me. One problem I have is continually trying to think ahead and figure out how Elphie becomes the Wicked Witch we know from the Oz book and movie. Impatient I gues... LOL Guess I need to hurry up and finish it to get that figured out. And need to quit visualizing the movie.

 

[pink]

i've just started the book, it's interesting but comes along very slowly. Is it like this the whole book?

 

[Razzbeary]

i've just started the book, it's interesting but comes along very slowly. Is it like this the whole book?

Pink,

I found that I only had trouble with that first section. Once I got to the second section (Gillikin), I found it to be a much easier read. I hope you do too! Hang in there!

 

[pink]

Pink,

I found that I only had trouble with that first section. Once I got to the second section (Gillikin), I found it to be a much easier read. I hope you do too! Hang in there!

i took a couple days away from it, i'll get started back tomorrow.

 

[Guest]

Are people reading this still?

Would people like to discuss it?

Or is the first book a bit of a failure and we move on to another?

I must admit I haven't finished it yet. It's not my thing after all... unlike others, I enjoyed the start and then got bogged down, and it does not hold my interest.

Anyway...

Discussion?

Move on? (mysuggestion would be for people to nominate a book.. mayne write a bit about it.. posta pic of the cover.. that sorta thing.. then have a vote)

Let this thread die?

 

[NorthernPA4U]

I finished it.

There were sections I liked quite well ... but I was actually disappointed with the way things ended, even accepting that the author was constrained in the ultimate result. I thought the book did a great job at developing characters and raising issues, but ... it seemed like he went on a lot of side excursions that never really ended up affecting the main plot line. That's OK if it leads to character development, but I'm not really sure it did that.

I'm willing to discuss in depth.

As far as the thread goes, I think if people are going to be in a reading group, you need to have a date by which/on which you actually begin discussing the book. Letting each person go at his/her on pace is only good to a point .. it's rather like having a school song anyone can sing to his own tempo and/or tune.

 

[Guest]

I finished it.

There were sections I liked quite well ... but I was actually disappointed with the way things ended, even accepting that the author was constrained in the ultimate result. I thought the book did a great job at developing characters and raising issues, but ... it seemed like he went on a lot of side excursions that never really ended up affecting the main plot line. That's OK if it leads to character development, but I'm not really sure it did that.

I'm willing to discuss in depth.

As far as the thread goes, I think if people are going to be in a reading group, you need to have a date by which/on which you actually begin discussing the book. Letting each person go at his/her on pace is only good to a point .. it's rather like having a school song anyone can sing to his own tempo and/or tune.

Thanks Northern.... good advice I think... and I think if we do another.. one we will adopt.

I think we just didn't want it to be TOO strict and maybe went the other way too much.

 

[elizabeth22673]

i guess i didn't get into this book either. let's try another one and see what happens!

 

[DLL]

this book was sheer torture....i hated every thing about it...but was so disappointed because the broadway show was awesome..i will dicuss it but i would like to suggest a shorter book that people could finish in a week or less and if i may add a choice its called the 5 people you meet in heaven...has alot of good thought for discussion in it...

 

[pink]

i'm still reading it but if everyone wants to move on, that fine with me. i will finish it on my own time. It is a slow read.

 

[metaltwister]

Have to agree with NorthernPA4U and DLL. A specific time period and/or a less complex book would be a good start.

Dll, your book suggestion seems like a good choice to me.
Excerpt from Amazon.com review:
"...The Five People You Meet in Heaven is a small, pure, and simple book that will find good company on a shelf next to It's A Wonderful Life..."

In Wicked, I felt that there was a good bit of "filler" material that took away from what I considered the story line was. Overall, not a bad read. I've killed time with worse, and certainly read some books that were more appealing.

As in an earlier post, I think the more telling part of this story is the grey area that we find in trying to define good and evil in terms of moral and legal absolutes. Certainly not what L. Frank Baum began with his original story.

Let's press on with other suggestions, and a timeline for reading and discussion beginnings...and I'll still be longwinded...

 

[Guest]

Razzy and I have discussed things and we have decided it's best to let this thread go. For a few reasons.

1. People sign up and never follow through.
2. A time limit will put as many people off as it attracts (and you'll still get people sign up and not follow through)
3. Trying to get a reply or response of any kind is like getting blood out of a stone, so organising a debate is next to impossible.

If anyone else wants to take it over.. fine... or if anyone wants to discuss 'wicked' here.. that's fine too.

I am sorry to some here, especially metaltwister, who was great.