Sarah Palin

[sr71plt]

No, all VC were not from the south, and the war was orchestrated from the north--but, yes, there was plenty of sympathy within the south.

And, no, Korea and Vietnam weren't at all the same sort of war. (I had to laugh at the suggestion of how well the South Koreans fought for themselves as opposed to the South Vietnamese. My dad was the U.S. adviser to South Korean forces on the border at one point and woke up one morning to discover that the South Korean forces around him had evaporated in the night on the rumor that the North Koreans were on their way in--which they were. And my dad had to lone march all the way to the coast ahead of them, never catching up with the retreating South Koreans.) In Vietnam, we never gave the South Vietnamese forces, such as they were, the opportunity to do that.

Also, strange as it may seem, the Chinese incursion into Vietnam wasn't about Vietnam at all. It was about what the Chinese wanted the United States to do vis a vis its current problems with the Soviet Union (without realizing we didn't have the leverage they thought we did). And if it hadn't snowed so much in Washington that the federal government was virtually shut down on the day the Chinese moved across the border, the Chinese incursion into Vietnam might not have happened at all. All China wanted us to do was acknowledge that we got their signal about the bigger picture--when we let them know we got their signal, they withdrew from Vietnam. But, yes, there's no love lost between the Vietnamese and the Chinese.

 

[amicus]

Long ago I used to consent to discuss, debate, live, on air, with theologians from the various faiths.

Listening/reading to Mab, with SheReads riding shotgun, reminds me of those days when one learns quickly that one cannot argue against faith and belief.

Sr71 made it a little easier as those comments clarified the Soviet and Chinese desires to dominate southeast Asia.

It was Russian made surface to air missiles, SAM's, that brought down John McCain's aircraft over Hanoi, gee, guess those missiles just walked from Czeckoslovakia to Hanoi, eh?

Our little socialist dreamers and believers here, with a lifetime of false premises, are not about to even question their faith; like the theologians, they will defend to the death their right to be totally wrong.

Russian/communist weapons and advisors all over the world, into Cuba and Grenada, throughout Africa, the middle east and Asia and Mab cheekily denies the Comintern?

That is true, blind belief immersed in the gentle socialist belief of 'from each, to each...', and just like religious zealots, our little socialists keep proseletizing in post after post.

Hari Krishna anyone?

heh...

Amicus...

 

[sr71plt]

Long ago I used to consent to discuss, debate, live, on air, with theologians from the various faiths.

Listening/reading to Mab, with SheReads riding shotgun, reminds me of those days when one learns quickly that one cannot argue against faith and belief.

Sr71 made it a little easier as those comments clarified the Soviet and Chinese desires to dominate southeast Asia.

It was Russian made surface to air missiles, SAM's, that brought down John McCain's aircraft over Hanoi, gee, guess those missiles just walked from Czeckoslovakia to Hanoi, eh?

Our little socialist dreamers and believers here, with a lifetime of false premises, are not about to even question their faith; like the theologians, they will defend to the death their right to be totally wrong.

Russian/communist weapons and advisors all over the world, into Cuba and Grenada, throughout Africa, the middle east and Asia and Mab cheekily denies the Comintern?

That is true, blind belief immersed in the gentle socialist belief of 'from each, to each...', and just like religious zealots, our little socialists keep proseletizing in post after post.

Hari Krishna anyone?

heh...


Amicus...

There are slightly more U.S.-made weapons lurking around the world than there are Russian, so I don't see your point on that. Both are champion arms sellers, often with no oar of their own in the waterfight at all.

There's nothing particularly unusual about spheres of influence around dominant powers. The Soviet sphere of influence goes back a long way--the Chinese even further. And it was influence rather than occupation/full control that these spheres are based on. The United States established one in 1820 in its hemisphere and, some have argued, have held a loose one over Western Europe since WWII. The Soviet/Chinese/U.S. spheres haven't been anything in terms of control as the Germans and Japanese tried--and failed. The Soviet/Russians tend to handle their sphere more arrogantly--flowed by the United States, lesser arrogrance but a good deal of club footedness. Followed by the Chinese--really pretty benignly. And the Chinese have done only limited dabbling outside their region--especially in comparions with what the United States, Europeans, and Russians have done.

If the Chinese are thought to be so expansionist, why has Taiwan sat nearby for 60 years without being taken? The U.S. shield of that has been a joke for at least the last 20 years.

Spheres of influence actually promote stability. The end of the cold war promoted instability rather than stability. One of the real problems in the Middle East is that there is no dominant power to establish a sphere of influence (or isn't one until the United States completes the bumbling process of handing the area to Iran). The British purposely set the region up that way as they filtered out.

(Uh, oh. I have no idea why I'm responding to one of Amicus's half-baked postings.)

 

[amicus]

You respond, sr71, because you realize that I often capsulize or condense the thoughts of a generation as expressed in dozens and dozens of books and interviews.

Much of what I post is from memory and experience as I actually lived through most of these events and, like this election, followed them day by day, word for word.

What you did in your last post was basically to reaffirm my assertion that international communism was indeed a factor and a serious one and not just a 'Joe McCarthy' moment as Mab blathers on about.

It is also a cold dose of reality to the many hippie area posters here who have believed for a quarter century that Vietnam and US involvement was a tragic era when in fact it was not but a bold stand to contain the communist threat around the world.

And....it worked....like Obama refusing to admit that the 'surge' in Iraq worked, our little anti war senile hippies insist that Vietnam was a bad thing.

Funny how things work out, ain't it?



amicus...

 

[sr71plt]

You respond, sr71, because you realize that I often capsulize or condense the thoughts of a generation as expressed in dozens and dozens of books and interviews.

Much of what I post is from memory and experience as I actually lived through most of these events and, like this election, followed them day by day, word for word.

What you did in your last post was basically to reaffirm my assertion that international communism was indeed a factor and a serious one and not just a 'Joe McCarthy' moment as Mab blathers on about.

It is also a cold dose of reality to the many hippie area posters here who have believed for a quarter century that Vietnam and US involvement was a tragic era when in fact it was not but a bold stand to contain the communist threat around the world.

And....it worked....like Obama refusing to admit that the 'surge' in Iraq worked, our little anti war senile hippies insist that Vietnam was a bad thing.

Funny how things work out, ain't it?



amicus...

No, I respond because I don't think you bake your ideas long enough--or that you have much of a grasp on your background knowledge of whatever I respond on. And where I think you are a slave to a hard-edged ideology.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

One interesting aspect of the American election for me, as an outsider, is to watch the debates and take note of the arguments they use, because it's a tradition in Sweden to always copy everything bad USA does - school shootings, McDonalds, conservatives in the government, Family Guy on TV...

And some of the arguments used by McCain were familiar to me! I heard the Moderates (Sweden's most conservative party) use some of those arguments in the last election.

Does that mean that we've gone all the way around the track field and are now coming up behind you?

 

[Liar]

And some of the arguments used by McCain were familiar to me! I heard the Moderates (Sweden's most conservative party) use some of those arguments in the last election.

...whose leader by the way, said he favors Obama for us prez. Says something about how right wing the us is and how left wing we are.

by the way, did you see the recent debates on TV with Sahlin, Reinfelt and the others? More four-second talking points, more personal attacks, more playing on fear and more vagueness on the substance than I've heard in a long time.

So yeah, I do believe we're being inspired.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I can't afford to watch political debates. Last time I did, I heard Maud Olofsson talk about jobs, and I had to restrain myself from tossing something heavy at the screen.


Yeah, it's kinda funny that our right-wingers are about the same level as their lefties.

 

[john-the-author]

Does that mean that we've gone all the way around the track field and are now coming up behind you?

Christ, I do hope not. You could be doing SO much better.

It's a sobering thought to think that Nixon, a noted conservative in his day, couldn't qualify for the Democratic presidential nomination were he alive today because he'd be far too liberal. Create the Environmental Protection Agency? Wage & price controls? Who the hell does he think HE is??!?!?!?

The U.S. is in the grip of Christian fascists who are terrified of change and are only a little behind fundamentalist Muslims for general stupidity. Not a lot. I mean, who says America doesn't have a peasant class?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Christ, I do hope not. You could be doing SO much better.

It's a sobering thought to think that Nixon, a noted conservative in his day, couldn't qualify for the Democratic presidential nomination were he alive today because he'd be far too liberal. Create the Environmental Protection Agency? Wage & price controls? Who the hell does he think HE is??!?!?!?

The U.S. is in the grip of Christian fascists who are terrified of change and are only a little behind fundamentalist Muslims for general stupidity. Not a lot. I mean, who says America doesn't have a peasant class?

I'm no fan of the religious right, but I wouldn't call them peasants. They're simply the moral descendants of one of the many strains of American who have populated this country. Mind you, it's the same strain responsible for the blue laws and the Salem witch trials, but every society has its unsavory inhabitants. Keep them out of power, and they're mildly amusing, in a condescending way. In power, of course, they're a real threat to personal freedom.

But, "peasants"- those went out with sharecropping.

 

[john-the-author]

Create Your Own Sarah Palin Speech!!!!

Check this out: PALINdrome.

The Top 50 speeches are pretty good. You can hear Sarah say things like "John McCain has a small package" and "I won my special needs son on eBay" and "John McCain has a hard package and loves drilling hockey moms" and "Barack Obama is especially huge and um harder then George Bush I first exploited my Bush doin the largest fingers now everything fills me I uh I cant wait to tap into Joe Six Pack every traditional position is also um good time awww man there you go again coming on me."

Okay, it's totally childish... but it *is* fun hearing her voice say "my campaign is a torturous nightmare."

 

[Boxlicker101]

Christ, I do hope not. You could be doing SO much better.

It's a sobering thought to think that Nixon, a noted conservative in his day, couldn't qualify for the Democratic presidential nomination were he alive today because he'd be far too liberal. Create the Environmental Protection Agency? Wage & price controls? Who the hell does he think HE is??!?!?!?

The U.S. is in the grip of Christian fascists who are terrified of change and are only a little behind fundamentalist Muslims for general stupidity. Not a lot. I mean, who says America doesn't have a peasant class?

Like Max, I'm no fan of the religious right, but I believe most of them could not be described as "peasants." I also believe the US is not in their grip. They would like it to be, and they do have power beyond their numbers, but they are too small a group to actually control the country. If they did, this site would not be here.

 

[freshface]

Like Max, I'm no fan of the religious right, but I believe most of them could not be described as "peasants." I also believe the US is not in their grip. They would like it to be, and they do have power beyond their numbers, but they are too small a group to actually control the country. If they did, this site would not be here.

Just give them a bit more time and a few more justices on the Supreme Court and Courts of Appeal.

 

[Belegon]

I love this. http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/political-pictures-martin-luther-king-community-organizer.jpg

 

[epiphany65]

Check this out: PALINdrome.

The Top 50 speeches are pretty good. You can hear Sarah say things like "John McCain has a small package" and "I won my special needs son on eBay" and "John McCain has a hard package and loves drilling hockey moms" and "Barack Obama is especially huge and um harder then George Bush I first exploited my Bush doin the largest fingers now everything fills me I uh I cant wait to tap into Joe Six Pack every traditional position is also um good time awww man there you go again coming on me."

Okay, it's totally childish... but it *is* fun hearing her voice say "my campaign is a torturous nightmare."

I'm not blaming you for this, but I gotta say I find the one referring to her son very offensive.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by john-the-author
Check this out: PALINdrome.

The Top 50 speeches are pretty good. You can hear Sarah say things like "John McCain has a small package" and "I won my special needs son on eBay" and "John McCain has a hard package and loves drilling hockey moms" and "Barack Obama is especially huge and um harder then George Bush I first exploited my Bush doin the largest fingers now everything fills me I uh I cant wait to tap into Joe Six Pack every traditional position is also um good time awww man there you go again coming on me."

Okay, it's totally childish... but it *is* fun hearing her voice say "my campaign is a torturous nightmare."

I'm not blaming you for this, but I gotta say I find the one referring to her son very offensive.

As I've been saying all along, there will be mud slung at all the candidates, but there will be much more slung at the Republicans. Have you ever heard of any VP candidate being treated this badly? Did Geraldine Ferraro have to put up with crap like this?

 

[epiphany65]

Quote:
Originally Posted by john-the-author
Check this out: PALINdrome.

The Top 50 speeches are pretty good. You can hear Sarah say things like "John McCain has a small package" and "I won my special needs son on eBay" and "John McCain has a hard package and loves drilling hockey moms" and "Barack Obama is especially huge and um harder then George Bush I first exploited my Bush doin the largest fingers now everything fills me I uh I cant wait to tap into Joe Six Pack every traditional position is also um good time awww man there you go again coming on me."

Okay, it's totally childish... but it *is* fun hearing her voice say "my campaign is a torturous nightmare."



As I've been saying all along, there will be mud slung at all the candidates, but there will be much more slung at the Republicans. Have yu ever heard of any VP candidate being treated this badly? Did Geraldine Ferraro have to put up with crap likd this?

VP candidates aside 'cause I wasn't politically aware when Ferraro ran for VP, I do agree that a lot of mud has been slung and Palin (and her family) has/have been unfairly attacked and made fun of by liberals. But when you look at it all on a whole she and McCain have not been the targets of even half as many outright, blatant lies and bigoted attacks as Obama has been.

 

[Varian P]

there will be mud slung at all the candidates, but there will be much more slung at the Republicans. Have yu ever heard of any VP candidate being treated this badly?

If you'd like, we can play "Your side is more evil and slanderous than mine" all day.

http://www.bobcesca.com/images/binlyinchipsomodevillagetty.jpg

 

[rgraham666]

If you'd like, we can play "Your side is more evil and slanderous than mine" all day.

http://www.bobcesca.com/images/binlyinchipsomodevillagetty.jpg

No, please don't. We're cool.

 

[Varian P]

No, please don't. We're cool.

Careful! In my case, your treading awfully close to libel, there.

 

[Guest]

Did Geraldine Ferraro have to put up with crap likd this?

http://www.answers.com/topic/geraldine-ferraro

Political Biography:
Geraldine Anne Ferraro

(b. Newburgh, New York, 26 Aug. 1935) US; Member of the US House of Representatives 1981 – 4, vice-presidential candidate 1984 Daughter of Italian immigrant parents, Ferraro graduated BA from Marymount College, Manhattan, in 1956 and LLB from New York Law School, 1978. Called to the New York bar in 1961, she headed a successful law practice until 1974. In that year she began her political career as a Democrat in the post of assistant district attorney of Queens County, New York. Four years later, in 1978, she headed a Supreme Court bureau for the victims of violent crime. Elected to the House of Representatives in 1981 as Congresswoman for 9th District New York, she undertook the role of secretary of the House Democratic caucus.

Ferraro was re-elected for a second term in 1983, and a year later was propelled to the forefront of the national political stage when Walter Mondale chose her to be his vice-presidential running mate (the first woman to be so selected). At the time of Ferraro's nomination questions were raised not only about her gender, which some Democrats feared might alienate more male blue-collar voters than it would attract radical feminists, but also about the limited extent of her political experience. After only six years in national politics she might be placed only one step away from the Oval Office.

At the outset the "Ferraro factor" brought glamour and energy to Mondale's rather staged, lacklustre image and plodding campaign. Shortly after the convention, however, controversy erupted about her personal finances. Her reputation was damaged by revelations of tax avoidance, shady business dealings, and possible Mafia connections of her husband, John Zaccaro. There were also allegations that Ferraro herself had been involved in financial impropriety in respect of her 1978 campaign funds. The ensuing scandal doomed the Mondale — Ferraro ticket.

Ferraro retired from politics after the defeat of the Democrats in the 1984 election and returned to private practice. In 1992 she attempted to make a political comeback, contending the Democratic nomination for US Senator for New York. Inevitably the scandals of 1984 overshadowed her campaign and dashed her hopes. She accepted an appointment from President Clinton to represent the USA at the United Nations Commission on Human Rights Conference in Geneva in 1993.

Ferraro was seen by some as the "mandatory" woman, chosen for her gender not her political agenda or ability. For others she symbolized a shrewd politician and career woman who was unfairly pilloried by the political establishment.

 

[Boxlicker101]

http://www.answers.com/topic/geraldine-ferraro

Political Biography:
Geraldine Anne Ferraro

(b. Newburgh, New York, 26 Aug. 1935) US; Member of the US House of Representatives 1981 – 4, vice-presidential candidate 1984 Daughter of Italian immigrant parents, Ferraro graduated BA from Marymount College, Manhattan, in 1956 and LLB from New York Law School, 1978. Called to the New York bar in 1961, she headed a successful law practice until 1974. In that year she began her political career as a Democrat in the post of assistant district attorney of Queens County, New York. Four years later, in 1978, she headed a Supreme Court bureau for the victims of violent crime. Elected to the House of Representatives in 1981 as Congresswoman for 9th District New York, she undertook the role of secretary of the House Democratic caucus.

Ferraro was re-elected for a second term in 1983, and a year later was propelled to the forefront of the national political stage when Walter Mondale chose her to be his vice-presidential running mate (the first woman to be so selected). At the time of Ferraro's nomination questions were raised not only about her gender, which some Democrats feared might alienate more male blue-collar voters than it would attract radical feminists, but also about the limited extent of her political experience. After only six years in national politics she might be placed only one step away from the Oval Office.

At the outset the "Ferraro factor" brought glamour and energy to Mondale's rather staged, lacklustre image and plodding campaign. Shortly after the convention, however, controversy erupted about her personal finances. Her reputation was damaged by revelations of tax avoidance, shady business dealings, and possible Mafia connections of her husband, John Zaccaro. There were also allegations that Ferraro herself had been involved in financial impropriety in respect of her 1978 campaign funds. The ensuing scandal doomed the Mondale — Ferraro ticket.

Ferraro retired from politics after the defeat of the Democrats in the 1984 election and returned to private practice. In 1992 she attempted to make a political comeback, contending the Democratic nomination for US Senator for New York. Inevitably the scandals of 1984 overshadowed her campaign and dashed her hopes. She accepted an appointment from President Clinton to represent the USA at the United Nations Commission on Human Rights Conference in Geneva in 1993.

Ferraro was seen by some as the "mandatory" woman, chosen for her gender not her political agenda or ability. For others she symbolized a shrewd politician and career woman who was unfairly pilloried by the political establishment.

Okay. Mud, which may or may not have been true, was slung, such as happens to pretty much all candidates for high office. However, was her femaleness singled out? Did anybody cut snippets from her speeches and assemble them to make her appear stupid or slutty? Did anybody attack her children, the way they attack Sarah Palin's? That's what I meant when I asked if Ferraro was subject to the same kind of crap as Sarah Palin is.

 

[epiphany65]

Okay. Mud, which may or may not have been true, was slung, such as happens to pretty much all candidates for high office. However, was her femaleness singled out? Did anybody cut snippets from her speeches and assemble them to make her appear stupid or slutty? Did anybody attack her children, the way they attack Sarah Palin's? That's what I meant when I asked if Ferraro was subject to the same kind of crap as Sarah Palin is.

You always move the goalposts whenever someone accepts your challenge and proves you wrong.

 

[Iamcanadian28]

I'm not blaming you for this, but I gotta say I find the one referring to her son very offensive.

That's makes two of us

 

[Guest]

Box, I just took you off ignore to read the post. Back on you go.

I don't frickin' know what people said or did about Ferraro. I was too young.

But that doesn't really mean dick about this presidential election, does it?

Your blinders cover every inch of you - top, bottom, side to side and all thinking or nonthinking brain matter.

You constantly excuse everything that the "right" has done and will continue to do, while constantly accusing those horrible "liberals" for every damn thing under the sun.

Believe whatever the fuck you want, true or not, Fox news or MSNBC - live happily in your continuing ignorance.

You are a frustrating piece of work.