So, Lesbians, what's the deal?

[sally_ja_hawkins]

To answer the question - well, lesbians are like everyone else, except we're romantically and sexually attracted to women, not men. Everyday life is as mundane as everyone else's. We still have to empty the bin bags, pay bills, do the shopping and go to the lavatory, you know!

I
See, one thing for me, is that I don't get men. I don't understand how your brains work. It amazes me that women can even be heterosexual, because to me, men are big hulks of confusion. I just do not understand men, I do not comprehend men, I do not get men. Women, on the other hand, I find it much easier to know what they are thinking, to understand their reasons and motives, I know what to expect, I know how they work. Men are just...what do I do with this thing? The interactions I have with men are usually fine, but on an intimate and romantic level I just don't make the connection.

I really relate to this. Although I enjoy the company of many men, and have some good male friends, I just can't get my head around the idea of falling in love with a man, of being romantically attracted to him. I simply can't see the appeal - I don't £get it" - and, like, Etoile, I struggle to empathise with straight women. I just don't connect with men in that way - whereas a woman's mind and personality just make sense and feel natural to be with.

As for the image stereotypes - quite a few lesbians *do* live up to the cliches of dress and hairstyle, because otherwise there wouldn't be a cliche. But many don't. I have quite long hair, I wear skirts and perfume, and overall look pretty standardly feminine. I'm not making a statement - I just think I look nicer that way.

 

[Marquis]

I really relate to this. Although I enjoy the company of many men, and have some good male friends, I just can't get my head around the idea of falling in love with a man, of being romantically attracted to him. I simply can't see the appeal - I don't £get it" - and, like, Etoile, I struggle to empathise with straight women. I just don't connect with men in that way - whereas a woman's mind and personality just make sense and feel natural to be with.

As for the image stereotypes - quite a few lesbians *do* live up to the cliches of dress and hairstyle, because otherwise there wouldn't be a cliche. But many don't. I have quite long hair, I wear skirts and perfume, and overall look pretty standardly feminine. I'm not making a statement - I just think I look nicer that way.

I'll tell you all a not-so-secret.

In many ways I am the complete stereotype of a male chauvinist pig, but in many ways I am also very feminine. I find that I click best with women who are able to express a masculine side themselves. My girlfriend is very much like this, her philosophy professor described her as having a personality with "high masculine and feminine spikes" or something like that.

But, for what it's worth, I could never see myself being with the portraiture of an American female.

 

[Powertone]

most states have given a resounding thumbs down on gay marriage.
massachussetts had the issue rammed down their throats thanks to their progessive liberal state supreme court.a big thanks to gavin nuisance,mayor of SF,too...way to shove it up everyone's rectum,Gav'.

the whole notion of gay marriage is like existing in a complete alternate reality.
being baffled that most heterosexuals aren't applauding your pretend marriage
is more bizarre than pretending you're married...

hey but whatever.the day will come when there'll be enough LIBS on the US Supreme Court that they'll over-rule the will of the people,nullify democratically cast votes opposing gay marriage,and with the strike of a pen...WA-LA! We now pronounce you husband & husband and wife & wife....to hell with the voters...bank on it happening...put Hillary in there...she owes the gay community big time...

 

[Marquis]

Dude, get a life.

 

[DarkBee]

most states have given a resounding thumbs down on gay marriage.
massachussetts had the issue rammed down their throats thanks to their progessive liberal state supreme court.a big thanks to gavin nuisance,mayor of SF,too...way to shove it up everyone's rectum,Gav'.

the whole notion of gay marriage is like existing in a complete alternate reality.
being baffled that most heterosexuals aren't applauding your pretend marriage
is more bizarre than pretending you're married...

hey but whatever.the day will come when there'll be enough LIBS on the US Supreme Court that they'll over-rule the will of the people,nullify democratically cast votes opposing gay marriage,and with the strike of a pen...WA-LA! We now pronounce you husband & husband and wife & wife....to hell with the voters...bank on it happening...put Hillary in there...she owes the gay community big time...

Too bad for you, but gays and lesbians are normal human beings too, so they deserve the right to marry.

 

[kbate]

Ellen, fake?

Short hair, wrong?

I don't know, I feel like maybe I need to see a few more responses, but this is a good start.

As Etoile stated (much more eloquently than shall I), you cannot tell your lesbian by the cut of her jib, the colour of her car or the clothes she wears.

My hair is shoulder length at this time. My partner's hair is short right now - cut because it fits better under her eventing helmet (horsewomen). You would not associate either of us with the stereotypical short haired lesbian of myth.

I do not even own flannel much less wear it. I have a leather jacket and a full length leather coat - but are those because of gay or fashion? I do not think that I dress that differently than anyone - except for the fact that I wear breeches and boots every day.

Tribadism? As Etoile stated - this is a lot of effort for little return. It requires feet in faces, elbows in ribs and exact coordination if anything but a lot of wiggling is going to be accomplished. Hands are much more efficient when it comes to finding a 1/4 inch spot that requires specific movement in order to produce the desired effect. Sure, we tried it, but hands, lips and tongues are more effective and more often used.

Butch/femme? Top/Bottom? Perhaps in some relationships - these have meaning, but in many they do not - perhaps in the majority they do not. It fits nicely into the hetero image that one partner must be the "dominant", but that isn't necessarily true when both partners are of the same sex. My partner and I are equals - we do as we will, when we will and to each other as we will.

Ellen? I like Ellen, but her coming out - seemed a bit staged in order to grab ratings and to keep her show in 'vogue'.

Rosie? I say blech - because she disgusts me in every way. She wears her politics as weapons and strikes out at any person who disagrees with her views.

I don't think you will find that lesbians are different enough from other women - that you could tell which 3 of 10 in a group are gay.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Too bad for you, but gays and lesbians are normal human beings too, so they deserve the right to marry.

Yeah, and gay marriage is thank goodness legal in The Netherlands, and here they have a right to have a registered partnership. But still the fucking jackasses of Danish politicians, are still going at it like they were the republicans of America. maybe it is because our prime minister is kissing the ass of Bush so much, that Bush is like getting a rimjob from him and they are making laws you could call down right GLBT phobic. And as you said, humans are humans.
And I say people are people. But fuck it, I feel sometimes it is a straight man comes in to this area. Then there comes a shitfest, because of conflicting point of views. But of course there are exceptions to the rule about some straight men, who doesn´t start up a shit fest, when they enter this area.

 

[Etoile]

Yeah, I suppose the only reason I realize how many of these guys are gay is because I get cruised on so often.

Ooooh, I used a gay term, I'm so hip!

Yanno, I wasn't going to call you on it, but since you were so excited about using a gay term and that making you hip...honey...there's no 'on' in it. You just get cruised very often, you don't get cruised on. You're mixing it up with getting hit on.

It's okay, I still love ya.

 

[Etoile]

most states have given a resounding thumbs down on gay marriage.
massachussetts had the issue rammed down their throats thanks to their progessive liberal state supreme court.a big thanks to gavin nuisance,mayor of SF,too...way to shove it up everyone's rectum,Gav'.

the whole notion of gay marriage is like existing in a complete alternate reality.
being baffled that most heterosexuals aren't applauding your pretend marriage
is more bizarre than pretending you're married...

hey but whatever.the day will come when there'll be enough LIBS on the US Supreme Court that they'll over-rule the will of the people,nullify democratically cast votes opposing gay marriage,and with the strike of a pen...WA-LA! We now pronounce you husband & husband and wife & wife....to hell with the voters...bank on it happening...put Hillary in there...she owes the gay community big time...

I suppose this is what I get for trying to explain myself to an asshat. Oh well.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

most states have given a resounding thumbs down on gay marriage.
massachussetts had the issue rammed down their throats thanks to their progessive liberal state supreme court.a big thanks to gavin nuisance,mayor of SF,too...way to shove it up everyone's rectum,Gav'.

the whole notion of gay marriage is like existing in a complete alternate reality.
being baffled that most heterosexuals aren't applauding your pretend marriage
is more bizarre than pretending you're married...

hey but whatever.the day will come when there'll be enough LIBS on the US Supreme Court that they'll over-rule the will of the people,nullify democratically cast votes opposing gay marriage,and with the strike of a pen...WA-LA! We now pronounce you husband & husband and wife & wife....to hell with the voters...bank on it happening...put Hillary in there...she owes the gay community big time...

See, what you all have to remember is that some people's marriages are so weak and built on so many lies, that the very idea of a marriage not like theirs is VERY threatening.
You know how there are people who need things their own way, or it is just wrong? Or people who, instead of being happy for people when good things happen, instead try to tear them down because of their own misery?
Thats the same thing.

The people afraid of gay marriage are, imho, afraid that they might have to look at why THEY got married.
And, as you know, self-examination is very scary.

(These are the same folks who would have kept blacks and whites from marrying because, y'know, two different races is just wrong...)

On the plus side, they'll lose.
Society always always always moves forward, eventually.
And those who live in fear get sent to the fringes, or just die out.

 

[kbate]

On the plus side, they'll lose.
Society always always always moves forward, eventually.
And those who live in fear get sent to the fringes, or just die out.

Unfortunately, this is not quite true. Society moves toward its majority and the demography of worldwide birth rates tells us that we are not heading for a new enlightenment, but rather for a new age of intolerance.

 

[WriterDom]

My ex was a lesbian I met here at lit. She never left her lover of 12 years and now they are closer than ever. We're still friends. Kind of hard now that she's on the other side of the world. I guess part of the initial attraction was the novelty of it.

I don't think I'd ever do it again. There are reasons why they prefer women over men. I don't know how many times I was told that I was acting like a man, like that's a cuss word.

 

[alaskabibear]

My ex was a lesbian... I don't know how many times I was told that I was acting like a man, like that's a cuss word.

This brings up a good point; It seems that some (not all) gays and lesbians fall into the same bad behavior of criticizing how heterosexuals and bisexuals live and think. Is this not just the flip side of the same ignorance and bigotry that they complain is directed at them?

most states have given a resounding thumbs down on gay marriage.
massachussetts had the issue rammed down their throats thanks to their progessive liberal state supreme court.a big thanks to gavin nuisance,mayor of SF,too...way to shove it up everyone's rectum,Gav'.

the whole notion of gay marriage is like existing in a complete alternate reality.
being baffled that most heterosexuals aren't applauding your pretend marriage
is more bizarre than pretending you're married...

hey but whatever.the day will come when there'll be enough LIBS on the US Supreme Court that they'll over-rule the will of the people,nullify democratically cast votes opposing gay marriage,and with the strike of a pen...WA-LA! We now pronounce you husband & husband and wife & wife....to hell with the voters...bank on it happening...put Hillary in there...she owes the gay community big time...

semen4her, if you're still watching this thread I would like to know why you feel so strongly about gays/lesbians getting married (and I assume bi's and TG's)? (I mean if you can actually put you're finger on a legitimate reason and not just spew more ignorant verbiage of hate). IMHO we should all be more concerned about the corporate rape of America by the rich than a few people who only want to love each other, spend their lives together, and have the same legal rights as everyone else. Seriously, how many gays/lesbians would we be talking about who want to get married - and would those few folks really pose such a grave national threat as the right wing fear mongers would like us to believe?

And to the OP Marquis, do you consider bisexuals as being gay / lesbian? Because, if you actually open up you're thinking to include this group I think you would realize that there is a large number of men and women who engage in homosexual contact in varying degrees out there. And I can assure you that you would not be able to use "gaydar" to detect most of them. The "gays" that you are detecting are simply the more flamboyant ones on the vast spectrum of human sexuality.

 

[CNYCarol]

Well I suppose what I would like to know about then is the culture.

I will summarize for you the entirety of my knowledge about the lesbionic sorority.

1. short hair
NOT AT ALL!

2. denim, flannel, leather
NEVER!

3. Ellen
NOT HOT!

4. often strong proponents of feminism
NOT ME!

5. common to associate as a top or bottom, similar to gay relationships
NEVER!

6. scissoring?
LEAVES TOO MUCH OUT!

7. moving in too fast
GUYS MOVE WAAAY TOO FAST!

8. Rosie
GROSS!

 

[Tymeless]

I don't get why right wing america is so upset with the notion of a legal agreement between 2 consenting adults that grants them protections and rights under the law. Thats all a marriage is in this country. Any marriage in this country is not legal until its been signed by a goverment official that has the authority to sign it. Religious marriages those in a church or by a religious official are in the eyes of god. they do not grant anyone anything legally and thats up to the religious officials to decide who justify's getting married in their church but our government is supposed to make decisions not based on religious beliefs and therefor confining marriage to such beliefs is a violation of our civil rights.

 

[Etoile]

4. often strong proponents of feminism
NOT ME!

Really? You don't support the idea that women are equal to men? I would describe that as the most basic proponent of feminism. Can you maybe elaborate a little more?

7. moving in too fast
GUYS MOVE WAAAY TOO FAST!

He said moving in, not moving!

 

[CNYCarol]

Etoile,

Being formerly from NY the feminism I see seems to be more about female SUPEROIRITY!

If it were about equality, I could support it, but at least up there it just seems to be a quiet little war!

Former New Yorker!

 

[south_florida_bicur]

Do you think it's just easier for me to recognize gay men than gay women, or do lesbians just blend in better in general?

Marquis,

My opinion why you see more gay men then women as you stated earlier you live in Fort Lauderdale which has a high gay male population. There is a section of the beach where gay men hang out. It isn't roped off but everyone knows that section is the gay beach. There are also many gay bars / clubs in your area too.

I too believe it is easier to spot a gay man then a gay women. If the 2 women are not kissing then most times I would never guess they are gay. Where most (not all so whoever reads this please do not attack me) gay men have a way about them where you can tell they are gay.

It took a long time for a group of gay friends of mine to allow me into their friends circle. For some reason (and I never knew this) this group of gay men does not like straight men or lesbians. I am sure there is a name for it but I refer to it as being the opposite of "homophobic". If you are not a gay man, then they will not give you the time of day.

Yet, I do have a question for Etoile. My question to you is (not speaking for the whole lesbian community) are you or do you know of any other lesbians that only allow other lesbians into their circle of friends? Know what I mean?

 

[Etoile]

Marquis,

My opinion why you see more gay men then women as you stated earlier you live in Fort Lauderdale which has a high gay male population. There is a section of the beach where gay men hang out. It isn't roped off but everyone knows that section is the gay beach. There are also many gay bars / clubs in your area too.

I too believe it is easier to spot a gay man then a gay women. If the 2 women are not kissing then most times I would never guess they are gay. Where most (not all so whoever reads this please do not attack me) gay men have a way about them where you can tell they are gay.

It took a long time for a group of gay friends of mine to allow me into their friends circle. For some reason (and I never knew this) this group of gay men does not like straight men or lesbians. I am sure there is a name for it but I refer to it as being the opposite of "homophobic". If you are not a gay man, then they will not give you the time of day.

Yet, I do have a question for Etoile. My question to you is (not speaking for the whole lesbian community) are you or do you know of any other lesbians that only allow other lesbians into their circle of friends? Know what I mean?

I'd call it heterophobia.

Sure, there are women out there like that too. I personally prefer NOT to have friends like that. My friends are all different genders and all different preferences. If I had a friend who was exclusionary like you describe, I would have serious doubts about whether we could remain friends. The only kind of friends I'd like to have are open-minded ones. I don't care what YOU prefer, as long as you don't care what I prefer either!

 

[emap]

It's actually not most of right wing america. Most of the right wingers, whatever the hell that means don't actually give a rats ass about gay marriage, they are just backing their chosen representative and what they said.

Besides which, something like half of the republicans in congress have not said word one on gay marriage, probably more. They did not all vote for the ban on gay marriage that Bush tried to push through, enough did to show a strong republican backing for the republican president, but not enough to pass it. Some democrats voted for the law, those actually beleive that it is wrong.

Let's look at why they think it is wrong. Let's not talk about personal revulsion at two men making out, since well they are not trying to marry another man. They think it is wrong because of religion, because some priest told them gays are wrong, they are blots on the face of god, who then after church went and had gay sex with one of his altar boys.

Not to say all priests have gay sex with their altar boys, or that all priests denounce gays. I am saying that most of the loudest opponents of gays period, are themselves gay, or at least strongly bisexual. I mean seriously, if you grow up in a religious family where your parents are telling you now you are going to grow up and have a beautiful wife and many kids and you are thinking I don't like girls, but Billy down the street is hot I want to bend over for him. What would you do? Some run away and be gay, the rest turn into priests or get married and turn into a gay man in their 80's after she dies.

Without religion there is no reason to be against gays, gay men take at least one man out of the hunt for that hottie down the street, what's to hate there? Gay women mean less women to date and score with, but well there are more of us in the world than men so who cares?

I mean come on and grow up here, besides religion, what is wrong with gay marriage? You don't have to watch them having sex, you don't have to talk to the gay couple down the street if you don't want to. So why is it so bad?

 

[south_florida_bicur]

I'd call it heterophobia.

Sure, there are women out there like that too. I personally prefer NOT to have friends like that. My friends are all different genders and all different preferences. If I had a friend who was exclusionary like you describe, I would have serious doubts about whether we could remain friends. The only kind of friends I'd like to have are open-minded ones. I don't care what YOU prefer, as long as you don't care what I prefer either!

thats the way we all should be. I don't care which sex a person prefers. It has absolutely no bearing on the relationship between me and that person. I was kind of forced to be interactive with these people because they were close friends of a dear friend of mine.

Then again, I try to shy away from any negative people.

thanks,

 

[south_florida_bicur]

I mean come on and grow up here, besides religion, what is wrong with gay marriage? You don't have to watch them having sex, you don't have to talk to the gay couple down the street if you don't want to. So why is it so bad?

Yes, we all know why gay marriage does not exist and that is because the govt. is ruled by the church and the church will always be against it.

In my opinion, another reason why the govt is against gay marriage is because we all know str8 marriage has a 55% divorce rate. They know that gay marriage will have a much less (my guess is around 15% divorce rate) which will make the churches / govt look foolish.

how the high and might will fall..

!

 

[DarkBee]

I applaud to both of you for such wise words.

 

[LaFemmeNicole]

Etoile,

Being formerly from NY the feminism I see seems to be more about female SUPEROIRITY!

If it were about equality, I could support it, but at least up there it just seems to be a quiet little war!

Former New Yorker!

Why must every thing about sex be so serious. I am European and where I grew-up it was very normal for a young girl to experiment with another young girl. I did not become a lesbian because of those little interludes. I have always enjoyed the company of men but love-making to me is fun, some thing to be enjoyed, and men, especially young men can be too aggressive and uncouth.
I have always preferred the softness of a woman and as I grow older I prefer an in-experienced lover who reluctantly submits to her desire to please another woman. I enjoy providing what they fantasize about. The funny thing is that many are married and use their husbands to provide them with female lovers, husbands who want that experience as much as their wives do.

So, don't call me bi or lesbian and I'm certainly not straight. Equality? Not in my world! please contact me by PM for an invite to my group.

 

[Etoile]

Why must every thing about sex be so serious. I am European and where I grew-up it was very normal for a young girl to experiment with another young girl. I did not become a lesbian because of those little interludes. I have always enjoyed the company of men but love-making to me is fun, some thing to be enjoyed, and men, especially young men can be too aggressive and uncouth.
I have always preferred the softness of a woman and as I grow older I prefer an in-experienced lover who reluctantly submits to her desire to please another woman. I enjoy providing what they fantasize about. The funny thing is that many are married and use their husbands to provide them with female lovers, husbands who want that experience as much as their wives do.

So, don't call me bi or lesbian and I'm certainly not straight. Equality? Not in my world! please contact me by PM for an invite to my group.

So what exactly are you advertising here? A hookup service for couples to find a woman to have sex with?