Something to think about today

[dcraz]

You ladies are the best!!!!

I think I see what PTM was getting at. There are two unfortunate things I see in what was written.

First is how it was written or I should say, the order in which it was written. As a writer, you always want to leave the reader with a lasting impression. So you save something pointed for the end. When that is the last thing you read, you cannot help but have it be the thing you remember most. At the very least, it will weigh more heavily than if you read it at the beginning or even in the middle of the article.

The other more important, or unfortunate thing is that it was mentioned at all. It was mentioned as if this were a point in his otherwise successful life that was lacking or somehow unfulfilled. It was clearly written as a negative footnote to a positive story. If you don’t believe that, then why mention it at all? If family life was not important to him, or not a publicly significant part of his life, then it bears no mention at all. He probably didn’t own a house in the Caribbean either, but there was no mention of that was there? The point being, why mention something that was not important to him? The obvious reason is it is an opportunity to put in a dig and a writers social commentary about the importance of family life and how Luther's lack of family life somehow made him less of a man. As Cate pointed out, it would only have merited mention if there was a need to defend it. But the man is dead so there is no defense that can be offered. I see no reason why a reporter would dig up the quote Luther made (as if it were a post mortem defense).

As most of you know, I am a devoted family man. My wife and kids mean the world to me and I live for them every day. That is my choice and one I find very fulfilling. But it is not a prerequisite for a successful, meaningful life. Just one that works for me. I have many friends that are not married and do not have children. And they have every bit as successful and fulfilling lives as I do. Likewise, I know many married people with kids that live incredibly shallow and selfish lives to the detriment of the spouses, kids and all those around them. The interesting thing I have observed is this. Of the single people I know without kids, some are ‘that way’ out of choice, and some out of circumstance. But almost all of them are wonderful, successful people that give of themselves in the most extraordinary ways. Cate, PTM, Denae and JG are those kind of people. I have met very few that are more giving, more compassionate and more fulfilled in their lives. They are happy, they give of themselves for others and they are positive contributors to a better society. They have nothing to apologize for. And neither did Luther.

Just my 2 cents. Can someone help me down off my soap box (more on this to follow… LOL!)?

 

[Darkknight2010]

When you do a thing with your whole soul and everything
that is noble within you, you always find your counterpart.

Camille Pissarro

 

[Guest]

When you do a thing with your whole soul and everything
that is noble within you, you always find your counterpart.

Camille Pissarro

Kisses for including this in today's posts... Many kisses thank you DarkKnight!

 

[Darkknight2010]

Kisses for including this in today's posts... Many kisses thank you DarkKnight!

YW, TG.

 

[Denae]

I couldn't agree more.

I would say, though - don't be too hard on people because they ask questions like that. Sometimes I think it's just a part of the getting to know you questions in your head. Trying to assess where someone is at in their life when you meet them is fairly common, and, since many people are married it's part of what many people consider "normal."

Ours may be one of the first generations where choosing not to be married and/or have children is becoming perhaps as common as choosing to was before. In some ways we don't have a lot of models for this choice. It's still not quite the norm and not a lot of people know what to do with that. Since most of the generations before us chose to get married and have children they may not have a lot of framework to get that. In some ways those who delay marriage and family or choose not to have them at all are a kind of pioneer for those who come after us.

Want to know the first thing I thought as I read PTM's Vandross obit? What lucky nieces and nephews he had. I am sure they miss him. And it makes me (an unmarried non-mom) want to spoil my niece and nephew just a bit more.

JG-as usual, you bring some great points to the table. Perhaps we will be leading the way for those women following in our footsteps. We could be setting the framework for those who choose, for whatever reason, not to marry or have children, yet still have fulfilling lives with great friends to surround them.

 

[Darkknight2010]

JG-as usual, you bring some great points to the table. Perhaps we will be leading the way for those women following in our footsteps. We could be setting the framework for those who choose, for whatever reason, not to marry or have children, yet still have fulfilling lives with great friends to surround them.

Cheers to both of you.

People forget life is a CHOICE. Families and marriage are so romanticized as THE path for folks... it's pretty scary.

A friend of mine is obsessed with getting married, and the saddest thing is when I ask her why, she can't tell me why.

Being lonely is the WORST reason... I did it.

Personally I don't get along with my relatives. Note I didn't use the word family. Yes, they're nice, et al, but as far as having anything in common? Beyond DNA... um, not really.

My family is here; bonds from college and from dealing with heartache and craziness. At the risk of beating to death the military theme, the things I've shared with my family here are things my relatives won't understand.

When my Mom died my relatives, et al, in Hawaii tried to do what theycould, bless them. But I didn't feel better until I got back here... I went to the local wateriing hole where we all hung out... no one said a word... everyone knew what happened... people bought a few rounds... and we just hung-out, lots of hugs... not so much 'forgetting', but more 'Look... you're home... we'll do what we can'.

 

[dcraz]

Cheers to both of you.

People forget life is a CHOICE. Families and marriage are so romanticized as THE path for folks... it's pretty scary.

A friend of mine is obsessed with getting married, and the saddest thing is when I ask her why, she can't tell me why.

Being lonely is the WORST reason... I did it.

Personally I don't get along with my relatives. Note I didn't use the word family. Yes, they're nice, et al, but as far as having anything in common? Beyond DNA... um, not really.

My family is here; bonds from college and from dealing with heartache and craziness. At the risk of beating to death the military theme, the things I've shared with my family here are things my relatives won't understand.

When my Mom died my relatives, et al, in Hawaii tried to do what theycould, bless them. But I didn't feel better until I got back here... I went to the local wateriing hole where we all hung out... no one said a word... everyone knew what happened... people bought a few rounds... and we just hung-out, lots of hugs... not so much 'forgetting', but more 'Look... you're home... we'll do what we can'.

Wow! Thanks to everyone for stopping by. Looks lik eI missed quite a prty of friends yesterday. My dumb luck. Typical though...


DK, I can relate. I am not very close to anyone in my family. In fact, I am much closer to my wife's family than my own. Not sure why, but I do not lose sleep over it. We are just not close. Like you, we have little in common with the exception of being related. They are not the kind of folks I would typically associate with if we were not related. Not that I dislike them, just no real sense of bond there.


Ok so here is my introspective thought of the day...

Over the years, I have discovered there are many levels to my pompousness.

Level one - On my soap box. Frequency – common. An opinion offered based on a notion of understanding of the subject. When I fall off my soap box, I may sprain an ankle or twist or knee, but usually step down injury free. This is my typical position and as high as I go on most topics. It often leads to great debates and discoveries of my own personal views as engage in polite, intelligent banter with others. I often

Level two - On my high horse. Frequency – occasional. This is where it begins to get personal. My opinions become more forceful and passionate and directed toward judgment of others. When I fall off my high horse, the risks for injury are greater. Often deep bruises and occasional broken bones.

Level three – On my pedestal upon which I have been know to truly pontificate. Frequency – rare. This is a most dangerous height to be sure. I can be more than opinionated. My attacks become personal, my judgments absolute. When I fall from this great height, I suffer as I should. The falls are usually fatal as they relate to friendships or acquaintances.


I sincerely hope my level never reaches above Level One with anyone here...

 

[jacuzzigal]

Knowledge is having a lot to say.
Wisdom is knowing when to be quiet.
-anonymous

 

[dcraz]

Knowledge is having a lot to say.
Wisdom is knowing when to be quiet.
-anonymous

Good morning to you JG.

Always a good reminder to see that quote. Reminds me of another similar Chinese Proverb.

Better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

 

[Denae]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for stopping by. Looks lik eI missed quite a prty of friends yesterday. My dumb luck. Typical though...


DK, I can relate. I am not very close to anyone in my family. In fact, I am much closer to my wife's family than my own. Not sure why, but I do not lose sleep over it. We are just not close. Like you, we have little in common with the exception of being related. They are not the kind of folks I would typically associate with if we were not related. Not that I dislike them, just no real sense of bond there.


Ok so here is my introspective thought of the day...

Over the years, I have discovered there are many levels to my pompousness.

Level one - On my soap box. Frequency – common. An opinion offered based on a notion of understanding of the subject. When I fall off my soap box, I may sprain an ankle or twist or knee, but usually step down injury free. This is my typical position and as high as I go on most topics. It often leads to great debates and discoveries of my own personal views as engage in polite, intelligent banter with others. I often

Level two - On my high horse. Frequency – occasional. This is where it begins to get personal. My opinions become more forceful and passionate and directed toward judgment of others. When I fall off my high horse, the risks for injury are greater. Often deep bruises and occasional broken bones.

Level three – On my pedestal upon which I have been know to truly pontificate. Frequency – rare. This is a most dangerous height to be sure. I can be more than opinionated. My attacks become personal, my judgments absolute. When I fall from this great height, I suffer as I should. The falls are usually fatal as they relate to friendships or acquaintances.


I sincerely hope my level never reaches above Level One with anyone here...

I sincerely hope that you never reach Level three in any of our conversations, personal attacks are not something I've learned to tolerate well. I was 18 years old the last time I accepted an apology for a personal attack.

Now having said that, it's good that you are willing to speak up when you feel strongly about something. Looks like you've experienced the circumstances of falling off the pedestals of levels 2 and 3 and I won't say anything else except hopefully you don't get too bruised or broken any more.

 

[jacuzzigal]

Good morning to you JG.

Always a good reminder to see that quote. Reminds me of another similar Chinese Proverb.

Better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

good morning to you as well, DC.

Thanks for this quote as well.

 

[Quinn71]

"It's not the load on your back that brings you down, but how you carry it" ~Lena Horne

 

[Darkknight2010]

"It's not the load on your back that brings you down, but how you carry it" ~Lena Horne

Welcome to the thread.

 

[Quinn71]

Welcome to the thread.

Thanks

 

[dcraz]

I sincerely hope that you never reach Level three in any of our conversations, personal attacks are not something I've learned to tolerate well. I was 18 years old the last time I accepted an apology for a personal attack.

Now having said that, it's good that you are willing to speak up when you feel strongly about something. Looks like you've experienced the circumstances of falling off the pedestals of levels 2 and 3 and I won't say anything else except hopefully you don't get too bruised or broken any more.

Good morning to you too Denae.

I cannot imagine having so much as a level 2 conversation with you my dear. Level 3 will never happen.

Perhaps a little more explaining. Level 1 is about intelligent banter. I like to hear other opinions and try to keep an open mind. So some lively debates are good for me too as they tend to open my eyes. It helps me understand things I might not otherwise see and I can gain some insight into how others think about a subject. I may soemtimes change my position ona given subject. I would not call this a regret so much as a better understanding or growing on my part.

Level 2 typically involves something I have a strong personal opinion about. How it relates to hurting others or involves something I find unreasonable. This is generally to let the other person know I have very strong feelings about a subject. Rarely have regrets here. In fact, I generally feel better about making sure someone else understandss exactly where I stand on an issue. I am not defiant in any way. Rather I am usually proud of the position I stick to on principal or as in issue of intergrity

I cannot remember the last level 3 conversation I had. But when I have had them, I had already made up my mind to sever that relationship. There was something that I could no longer rationalize being associated with (i.e. criminal behavior, intentional hurting of others, etc.). Never any regrets here. It is better for me to be out of such a relationship. Probably better for them too.

 

[Denae]

Good morning to you too Denae.

I cannot imagine having so much as a level 2 conversation with you my dear. Level 3 will never happen.

Perhaps a little more explaining. Level 1 is about intelligent banter. I like to hear other opinions and try to keep an open mind. So some lively debates are good for me too as they tend to open my eyes. It helps me understand things I might not otherwise see and I can gain some insight into how others think about a subject. I may soemtimes change my position ona given subject. I would not call this a regret so much as a better understanding or growing on my part.

Level 2 typically involves something I have a strong personal opinion about. How it relates to hurting others or involves something I find unreasonable. This is generally to let the other person know I have very strong feelings about a subject. Rarely have regrets here. In fact, I generally feel better about making sure someone else understandss exactly where I stand on an issue. I am not defiant in any way. Rather I am usually proud of the position I stick to on principal or as in issue of intergrity

I cannot remember the last level 3 conversation I had. But when I have had them, I had already made up my mind to sever that relationship. There was something that I could no longer rationalize being associated with (i.e. criminal behavior, intentional hurting of others, etc.). Never any regrets here. It is better for me to be out of such a relationship. Probably better for them too.

I completely understand.

The last Level 3 conversation I had was along the lines of severing a relationship. It was in '97 and I told the young "person" (not a lady at all) that she was the worst type of woman in my opinion; a complete cunt. And that is not a word I throw out lightly.

If you & I were to have a level 3 type of conversation, it wouldn't be a surprise to either one of us I'm sure.

 

[Darkknight2010]

The saddest thing to see is people who can't converse without it getting personal. Yes, we ALL have differences of opinion, but that's what makes things fun! Seeing different points of view, other angles, blah, blah, blah. But in the end, that's all it is; just a point of view. As long as you have a pretty reasonable rationale for it instead of 'Well... that's jsut what I think' it works pretty well.

I remember years ago a bunch of us got into a very, very, very deep discussion about politics. It was a train-wreck since one was a die-hard Republican, another was VERY liberal, and two of us were pretty moderate. We were at a restaurant just throwing stuff around, and things got a little heated.

BUT as soon as our food showed up, we chilled, no big deal. It was just neat to see us be able to NOT go all nuts about the entire conversation and just respect that fact we see things differently.

Neat stuff.

 

[Darkknight2010]

I cannot remember the last level 3 conversation I had. But when I have had them, I had already made up my mind to sever that relationship. There was something that I could no longer rationalize being associated with (i.e. criminal behavior, intentional hurting of others, etc.). Never any regrets here. It is better for me to be out of such a relationship. Probably better for them too.

If I'm at level three I got into major professor mode; there isn't even a personal attack, you just have no clue what you're talking about, you're a little worm, and i will crush you with what information I have and look down my nose at you like a pathetic teenager.

yeah, it's pretty ugly and rather rude.

 

[69forever]

Good morning to you too Denae.

I cannot imagine having so much as a level 2 conversation with you my dear. Level 3 will never happen.

Perhaps a little more explaining. Level 1 is about intelligent banter. I like to hear other opinions and try to keep an open mind. So some lively debates are good for me too as they tend to open my eyes. It helps me understand things I might not otherwise see and I can gain some insight into how others think about a subject. I may soemtimes change my position ona given subject. I would not call this a regret so much as a better understanding or growing on my part.

Level 2 typically involves something I have a strong personal opinion about. How it relates to hurting others or involves something I find unreasonable. This is generally to let the other person know I have very strong feelings about a subject. Rarely have regrets here. In fact, I generally feel better about making sure someone else understandss exactly where I stand on an issue. I am not defiant in any way. Rather I am usually proud of the position I stick to on principal or as in issue of intergrity

I cannot remember the last level 3 conversation I had. But when I have had them, I had already made up my mind to sever that relationship. There was something that I could no longer rationalize being associated with (i.e. criminal behavior, intentional hurting of others, etc.). Never any regrets here. It is better for me to be out of such a relationship. Probably better for them too.

Ohhh, aren't we pompous? That in itself portrays you as a fraud. To be truly enlightened one must be humble. That means open to teaching and learning.

You talk down to people. Shame on you. You *may* have a gift. To use it as you do is atrocious. IMHO

Your response to my first post here epitomizes that attitude. The point that went right by you was reaching out to others after overcoming demons of the soul.

You are to shallow for a level 1 conversation.

 

[69forever]

If I'm at level three I got into major professor mode; there isn't even a personal attack, you just have no clue what you're talking about, you're a little worm, and i will crush you with what information I have and look down my nose at you like a pathetic teenager.

yeah, it's pretty ugly and rather rude.

LOL! I like that attitude. If I go from post slut to that mode....watch out.

It's been done before and probably will again. There's no shying from intellectual discussion here. I back up what I say. With experience and fact.

 

[dcraz]

Response to 69forever

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69forever
Gosh I haven't been here in ages. Guess the day to day crisises and wallowing in self-pity for awhile took it's toll on my philosophical side. It takes getting outside of yourself in order to see clearly. ~sighs~ At any rate, I'm back and healed inside enough to ponder and reach a hand out to someone else.

Seems to me that self-pity and resentments go hand in glove, the most debilitating, destructive character flaw there is. From it comes hate, jealousy, fear and the whole host of "deadly sins". (I beleive and pratice the priciples of re-incarnation/Karma. Not "religion".)

Love becomes twisted and something ugly while holding onto resentments. It grows like a cancer inside, until even a sunlit day seems dark and grey. That's not saying we haven't been hurt, cheated, betrayed and used to invoke these feelings. Lord knows I have. I also know going back two years when I came here that those resentments had me in a downward spiral so steep it almost killed me.

I helped others close to me overcome that pit, but held my own resentments close yet. They came back and helped me to overcome them myself. To teach me the teacher, unconditional love. Through that my soul was transformed and the resentments melted away as snow on a warm spring day.

Now I reach my hand, my heart and my soul out, shining a light down that deep dark well, coaxing someone else back to the light. Pass it on.....






To that, I originally responded as follows:

Congratulations to you 69 for pulling youself out of that fateful spiral. I have been fortuante enought to not suffer from the self pity you describe, but have known several very close to me that have. It is a most difficult thing to recover from. There is always self doubt around the corner to pull you back in when you are weak or frightened.

A wonderful attiitude you have to share with others, to help them overcome their fears and self doubt.

Thank you for sharing and good luck to you my friend in your continued recovery.





Then tonight, you wrote:

Ohhh, aren't we pompous? That in itself portrays you as a fraud. To be truly enlightened one must be humble. That means open to teaching and learning.

You talk down to people. Shame on you. You *may* have a gift. To use it as you do is atrocious. IMHO

Your response to my first post here epitomizes that attitude. The point that went right by you was reaching out to others after overcoming demons of the soul.

You are to shallow for a level 1 conversation.





To which I ask.....

Did I do or say something to personally attack you? I don’t recall doing so. If I said something that offended you, I apologize as that was NOT my intent. Perhaps I misunderstood something you posted. Or perhaps you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

If you look at the exchange above, to which I believe you are referring, I was trying to be supportive. At least that was my intent. I intended to suggest that I was pleased for you that you were able to overcome yourself described wallowing in self pity and resentment. And I was pleased to see you have reached out to help others that might benefit from your own experience and compassion. I think both sentiments are positive and I was trying to be encouraging and complimentary.

I do not recall saying anything that might be perceived as pompous or a fraud. So I would appreciate it if you would point out to me exactly what I said that offended you so. I will gladly try explain any misunderstanding. Or take full responsibility for something I said that was, in fact, taken as intended.

I’m not sure what you have read to believe I talk down to you or anyone else. As for some ‘gift’ and how I misuse it IYHO, again, I am not sure I follow. But I am willing to be called on it.

The only thing I can guess is that you took my comments as being both insincere and condescending. Neither of which was true or intended.

Confused here….

 

[Missingmeds]

Ohhh, aren't we pompous? That in itself portrays you as a fraud. To be truly enlightened one must be humble. That means open to teaching and learning.

You talk down to people. Shame on you. You *may* have a gift. To use it as you do is atrocious. IMHO

Your response to my first post here epitomizes that attitude. The point that went right by you was reaching out to others after overcoming demons of the soul.

You are to shallow for a level 1 conversation.

First I think that you are being way harsh here. The way that I read that he wasn't being pompous, he was explaining himself to people. I think that he did a good job of explaining how he can get at times.

I went back and read your first post and his reply to it. Again I don't see anything that would lead you to the conclusions that you are posting here. Maybe the shame needs to be placed somewhere else?

I have seen no signs of him being shallow at all. I have read a number of his posts and have found him to be someone that thinks before he posts.

So I would seriously suggest that you reread what was posted and give it a think over.

 

[dcraz]

Hmmmmm

Still scratching my head over the above post.

Guess at the end of the day, it held true to the thread topic and gave me something to think about!

Oh well.....

 

[Missingmeds]

Still scratching my head over the above post.

Guess at the end of the day, it held true to the thread topic and gave me something to think about!

Oh well.....

I can understand the head scratching believe me.....

 

[Darkknight2010]

You've got to jump off the cliffs all the time,
and build your wings on the way down.

Ray Bradbury