Thinkings, feelings and...doings ~ 2013

[Light Ice]

Nah. You shouldn't get a cookie for doing the right thing. Forgiveness is a construct. You don't "deserve" it, unless it serves to give the injured party some closure. That's still not saying it's something you deserved. Even then, I don't think it's something you should view as a "my sins have now been erased" or an "I was owed this" kind of deal. There's something rotten in that kind of thinking, in my opinion. It's way more important to live with your mistakes and forgive yourself for them. I think, though, the goal should always be to not make that same mistake again. Educating yourself is the best way to resolution or so it's been for me.

But if I ever heard anyone say the words, "I deserve to be forgiven" to me, I'd know they weren't really sorry.

Fair enough. I can't actually argue much with what you said. I think forgiveness was a bad word for me to put in there. Still, are we arguing that passive-aggressively posting about someone on a separate thread is the way to go, here? Because that's my point.

If you have the convictions to notice something like that - stand by them enough to give someone a clear picture of where you're at. The "oh look at this, come show your outrage everyone" tactic is one that lesser people have used on this board for ages. And it's gross.

 

[cgraven]

As I am being racked across the coals for being a racist Perhaps those who are offended should take a moment and remember that the China Pearl Inn is set in the 1920's and 30's post WWI. That The Character of Phoo Ming has been there sense the beginning and is respected by all who have called the Inn home.

Taken to its logical conclusion a sight dedicated to erotic writing and the playing out of people's fantasies there is something to offend every one particularly if it is taken out of context or the historical setting.

If I had a problem with something that another member of Lit had written I would take it to that writer via PM other than posting publicly on a thread that, in my case I have never posted on till now.

 

[Light Ice]

No one said he was a racist.

But the term, clearly, is.

We understand that this discussion is not taking place in private where he cannot see, right? He is free to read all of this and comment, or not.

We also need to quit acting like he was the only one using the term, and that he was doing so in private where no one else could see.

You shouldn't be defending yourself here. You don't need to. The word isn't one that should be used. Just address it directly and you have a very simple fact and your own convictions behind you.

But when you address bullshit this way you look like another sniveling backhanded gossip queen. It's something I've always been very public about. There is no defense. And it isn't my concern to be popular on here. I've never really given a shit what people say or think.

But I don't like the backhanded bullshit. I never have. Especially when there's no good reason for it.

 

[Light Ice]

And yet here you are...

Being direct. Did you miss that part?

 

[thestruggle]

Fair enough. I can't actually argue much with what you said. I think forgiveness was a bad word for me to put in there. Still, are we arguing that passive-aggressively posting about someone on a separate thread is the way to go, here? Because that's my point.

If you have the convictions to notice something like that - stand by them enough to give someone a clear picture of where you're at. The "oh look at this, come show your outrage everyone" tactic is one that lesser people have used on this board for ages. And it's gross.

I think the difficulty here is that a lot of people aren't comfortable with call-outs. I can't blame them, it's not like it's more comfortable doing the calling-out either. On my end, I always try to be direct and go straight at the source. It's a daunting, complicated issue and there are a lot of different ways to go about it. An example I could think of would be when Katy Perry appropriated and really mangled Japanese culture in her AMA performance. There was a lot of press coverage then, a lot of blog articles. These people weren't directing their remarks at her but they were putting out the truth of her racism.

A term that would be appropriate here is tone-policing, and I prickle at it for any variety of reasons. Mostly it's because I have been subject to a lot of people telling me, "Oh, you really shouldn't call so and so racist because you don't know why they used the n-word"/any number of situations. That's true for many, many issues and not just ones regarding to race. People don't want you to call them out on their bullshit.

 

[cgraven]

No one is freaking out. Given some of the shit you've said to people in here, it's rather ironic that you'd say that.

But we're not having this conversation about someone that lives in a nursing home and doesn't hear terribly well and his world basically stops at the door with the alarm on it.

We're on the internet. Discovering that a term for an entire group of people is racist is really, really easy. More so than checking your email, because it doesn't require a password.

I assume the next time you have the urge to lash out at someone, you'll do so in a PM, yes?

And what do you know of me Sir?

 

[Light Ice]

Except you aren't.

Uh. Ok.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

Oh for fuck's sake.

Are we really going to pretend that if I had posted that in the Inn, I would have been welcomed with open arms? I'm not that dumb. I don't tend to think you are. I'm part of the evil clique, remember?

Again: it's public. It's right here . He is as free to post in this thread as you or I.

No message went out calling everyone to look at what I said and comment on it. The fact that others were around at the time was a coincidence, and nothing more. Feel free to ask around.

But hey, I'm a nice guy, so I can and should just be forgiven. It's a good system.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

And what do you know of me Sir?

I know LI is entirely convinced that you will apologize and not use the term anymore.

 

[Veroe]

Glad that's all settled, now I can concentrate on finishing this post I'm working on.

 

[saysalice]

Thinking: Heh... Nope. Not even. But I've missed you lot. Don't mind me, just passing through.

Feeling: Glad to be home/sad to be home. Thoroughly exhausted. Congested and miserable with another stupid fucking head cold!

Doing: Being unapologetically lazy. Supposing I should wake the baby for a bit, to get him back in the right time zone. Wondering if I might feel like writing that thing, later tonight.

 

[Light Ice]

Oh for fuck's sake.

Are we really going to pretend that if I had posted that in the Inn, I would have been welcomed with open arms? I'm not that dumb. I don't tend to think you are. I'm part of the evil clique, remember?

I'm certain you would have come off as someone with powerful convictions and the courage to stand beside them instead of a passive-aggressive whine ass.

No message went out calling everyone to look at what I said and comment on it. The fact that others were around at the time was a coincidence, and nothing more. Feel free to ask around.

Give me a break. Really, that's what your excuse is?

But hey, I'm a nice guy, so I can and should just be forgiven. It's a good system.

You have to understand where you went wrong and take responsibility for yourself. Then, absolutely.

 

[thestruggle]

Thinking: Heh... Nope. Not even. But I've missed you lot. Don't mind me, just passing through.

Feeling: Glad to be home/sad to be home. Thoroughly exhausted. Congested and miserable with another stupid fucking head cold!

Doing: Being unapologetically lazy. Supposing I should wake the baby for a bit, to get him back in the right time zone. Wondering if I might feel like writing that thing, later tonight.

Miss you! Always thinking good things.

 

[Light Ice]

As I am being racked across the coals for being a racist Perhaps those who are offended should take a moment and remember that the China Pearl Inn is set in the 1920's and 30's post WWI. That The Character of Phoo Ming has been there sense the beginning and is respected by all who have called the Inn home.

Taken to its logical conclusion a sight dedicated to erotic writing and the playing out of people's fantasies there is something to offend every one particularly if it is taken out of context or the historical setting.

If I had a problem with something that another member of Lit had written I would take it to that writer via PM other than posting publicly on a thread that, in my case I have never posted on till now.

I just saw this.

Period appropriate, or not, we don't use the word nigger around here for a very good reason. I don't think it is alright to use the word chinaman because it's abusive and terribly hurtful.

 

[Britwitch]

Thinking: Heh... Nope. Not even. But I've missed you lot. Don't mind me, just passing through.

Feeling: Glad to be home/sad to be home. Thoroughly exhausted. Congested and miserable with another stupid fucking head cold!

Doing: Being unapologetically lazy. Supposing I should wake the baby for a bit, to get him back in the right time zone. Wondering if I might feel like writing that thing, later tonight.

An Alice!!

sends warm hugs her way

 

[saysalice]

Miss you! Always thinking good things.

assertive snuggling!

An Alice!!

sends warm hugs her way

loves for all three

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

I'm certain you would have come off as someone with powerful convictions and the courage to stand beside them instead of a passive-aggressive whine ass.




Give me a break. Really, that's what your excuse is?



You have to understand where you went wrong and take responsibility for yourself. Then, absolutely.

Please do not mistake me for someone looking to make excuses to you. I can promise you, it is not something I am doing now, or will do in the future.

I've done the "be direct" thing before, here too, and (big surprise!) I was a dick then, too. You're still playing the fool if you think it would have gone any differently anywhere else. Continuing to do so is your choice.

As you can see, apology and no longer using the term wasn't going to happen. So, I guess he's just a nice guy that uses a racist as fuck term, now.


But we are still sitting here acting like he was the only one to use it. He wasn't. He wasn't even the first person I saw using it. I thought it was a typo the first time I saw it. The 'old' excuse can't be used for all of them.

 

[Britwitch]

loves for all three

takes the Alice loves to bed with her, to snuggle

 

[Belvino]

Thinking... Damn those pork chops look delicious!

 

[ObscureInsanity]

Thinking: 'What I wouldn't give for a fifth right now...'

Feeling: Severely overwhelmed.

Doing: Tearing up and wishing something magical could happen to lift me out of this darkness.

 

[Britwitch]

How is it morning already...?

 

[Raven_Timothy]

Because?

 

[Raven_Timothy]

Can someone be gay with our preferring the same sex? Can some one need a fag without wanting a homosexual? Can I say the black man over there without being labeled a racist? Or is there a point where happy smokers can identify a prison by a distinction. If I said I was heavy set dose that mean I hate people who are not "the perfect size"? Or is there a point where context matters? Or do people just need to troll threads to find or make "reasons" to lash out? What happened to the people who wanted to embrace differences? Please tell me that applies to something wider than your personal views. I may not like someone's av or sig but dose that give me the right to bash or bad mouth them? Or would the more intellectual response be to ask for an exploitation then act on facts not previously appearet? I agree that words have been made to be offensive. But that does not mean those words stopped having any other meaning. Yes there are a few that started off being offensive and as such should not be used. But how many of the people who are jumping to a conclusion about those words still think Custer was attack buy young Indian braves at little bighorn? Wait can I say Indian... My grandfather was a Native American. And by that culture and blood line so am I. How ever I also have a Scottish blood line so does that mean I hate myself for having the "wrong blood"? How carried away can one get with this train of thought?

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

Can someone be gay with our preferring the same sex?

I don't know what this has to do with anything.

Can some one need a fag without wanting a homosexual?

If you're in England or Australia, sure. It's a colloquialism for cigarette... there. Here, it is not, which you clearly know or else you wouldn't be using this as an example. I'd wager you don't run around talking about 'fags' all day long, meaning cigarette but obviously taken by anyone that overhears it as you using slurs on homosexuals, right?

Can I say the black man over there without being labeled a racist?

Yes.

Or is there a point where happy smokers can identify a prison by a distinction.

Do you mean person?

And even if you do, I don't know what this means. Are you suggesting 'gay' be substituted for 'happy' here? Again, not a term the way people mean it now. And I feel like you're going for the phrase 'gay fag' here, but that doesn't work since a Brit/Aussie 'fag' is the cigarette itself, and not the person smoking it. So, I don't mean to repeat myself, but I'm missing the point here, as well.

If I said I was heavy set dose that mean I hate people who are not "the perfect size"?

No. Has anyone, ever, anywhere, said that it does? Or that there is a 'perfect size'? Or that having one body type means you must hate another?

Or is there a point where context matters?

Context matters, sure. Referring to someone, casually and repeatedly, as 'Chinaman' is not a context that excuses use of the term, however. Neither is claiming that the setting for the thread is decades ago in China, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that conversation happens within there that never would've happened in post-WWI China, it happens in English, and that I'd happily take a wager that the vast, overwhelming majority of 'people' in there aren't Chinese.

If all of those things that can be freely, happily, easily overlooked, then I think not referring to someone as 'Chinaman' to get the setting correct won't break the mystique.

Or do people just need to troll threads to find or make "reasons" to lash out?

I don't typically care what nonsense people get up to in their threads in here.. but I'm also not going to sit around and just let racist terms be thrown around freely. You shouldn't either.

Let me ask you, Raven: If 'nigger' or 'kike' or 'chink' or 'wetback' had been used instead of 'Chinaman,' would you be saying all of this? Are you comfortable with those terms being used freely, openly, and repeatedly? If not, then why should another racial slur warrant this kind of defense from you?

What happened to the people who wanted to embrace differences? Please tell me that applies to something wider than your personal views.

We're right here. Hello.

But racism is not a 'difference' to be 'embraced.' And using racial slurs seems, to me, to be the exact opposite of embracing differences. If that is what you want, why do you seem to be defending the use of the term?

I may not like someone's av or sig but dose that give me the right to bash or bad mouth them?

If the sig were blatantly racist, sure. Say something. Racism should be fought.

Are you disagreeing that the use of the word 'Chinaman' is racist? I can cite you plenty of examples showing that it is, if this is the case.

Or would the more intellectual response be to ask for an exploitation then act on facts not previously appearet?

I assume you mean 'explanation.'

An explanation was given:

As I am being racked across the coals for being a racist Perhaps those who are offended should take a moment and remember that the China Pearl Inn is set in the 1920's and 30's post WWI. That The Character of Phoo Ming has been there sense the beginning and is respected by all who have called the Inn home.

Taken to its logical conclusion a sight dedicated to erotic writing and the playing out of people's fantasies there is something to offend every one particularly if it is taken out of context or the historical setting.

If I had a problem with something that another member of Lit had written I would take it to that writer via PM other than posting publicly on a thread that, in my case I have never posted on till now.

That is no kind of explanation at all.

Let me ask you, again, Raven: If I were to create a thread in here and set it on a Georgia plantation 1840, would you sit idly by while I threw the n-word around freely, accepting the explanation that it was acceptable in the time period I set my thread in and I'm only trying to maintain the setting? I sincerely hope not.

I agree that words have been made to be offensive. But that does not mean those words stopped having any other meaning.

Most often, it does.

Words are typically made to be offensive through their use. When a term, like 'Chinaman,' has been repeatedly used in a derogatory way, it comes to be seen as a derogatory word. Again, if you doubt that it is I will be happy to cite you plenty of examples of people saying that very thing.

Yes there are a few that started off being offensive and as such should not be used.

This seems to simply ignore that the meaning of words changes over time. Especially slang terms.

But how many of the people who are jumping to a conclusion about those words still think Custer was attack buy young Indian braves at little bighorn?

I'm at a loss as to what this has to do with anything.

Wait can I say Indian... My grandfather was a Native American. And by that culture and blood line so am I.

Surely you recognize the irony of asking if you can say 'Indian,' and then using 'Native American' in the very next sentence?

How hard is it to say Native American? They're not from India.

How ever I also have a Scottish blood line so does that mean I hate myself for having the "wrong blood"? How carried away can one get with this train of thought?

This is another bizarre tangent. Who said anything about 'wrong blood?' Clearly, you can get very carried away with it. To what purpose, I have no idea.

 

[prettyserpentine]

Thinking: This

Feeling: This

Doing: This