THIS is "oppression" and "discrimination."
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Stella_Omega
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twister947
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No man in America hates GWB more than I do, but I never wanted him to fail, because when the President fails, the country fails.
There's a part of the right that does not share that sentiment, and has as their goal depriving Obama of even the smallest triumph. They don't care what it costs, how many people are out of work, what the long term consequences are. There is just that single, over-arching obsession that trumps all other considerations: destroy the Obama presidency. It's part racial, part ideological, and all hate. You can not lead those who will not be led.
There's a part of the right that does not share that sentiment, and has as their goal depriving Obama of even the smallest triumph. They don't care what it costs, how many people are out of work, what the long term consequences are. There is just that single, over-arching obsession that trumps all other considerations: destroy the Obama presidency. It's part racial, part ideological, and all hate. You can not lead those who will not be led.
SubmissiveBrat
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Who is the REP fathead talk show guy who stated he hopes Obama is a failure?
What a jerk. No matter who I vote for I still support who wins because his success is our success.
Really gets me pissed when I hear some redneck bastard say he hopes Obama gets assassinated. Any real American should be insulted and pissed at that prospect as it is a slap to the face of our democratic process. He was elected by the will of the people. GWB had 2 terms to fuck us up we cannot expect any president to repair that kind of damage quickly. The most he really can do is try to lay the groundwork for future recovery. At least that is what I think.
Stella_Omega
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Obama faces more assassination threats daily than any president before him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_assassination_threats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_assassination_threats
I don't feel like looking it up. I trust your numbers are correct.
I'll give you credit for mentioning GE since they are deeply in bed with the Obama administration. They donated tens of millions of dollars to his campaign and in return were awarded no bid government contracts worth billions and recieve billions in government grants for green technology projects then ship the jobs overseas, and Jeffery Imelts (GE's CEO)works for the Obama administration as an advisor. Bank of America was another big doner to Obama and recieved huge amounts of TARP money from him.
I actually don't disagree with you on the corporations paying zero taxes. The only thing I would say is that if you raise the taxes on corporations they will just raise their prices and pass the cost back to you, the consumer, so everything you buy will cost more or they will pack up and move overseas and take the jobs with them. You could win the war on principle but the end result is higher costs of goods and fewer jobs.
Here is a question I have for you. Say you have two people that work for the same company and they make the same wage. One person is content to work 40 hours and then go to the bar and get drunk. The other person volunteers for overtime, works a second job on the night shift and runs a lawn care business on the weekend so he can get ahead and maybe buy a home, while the first person is content to get drunk and live at his mom and dads house until he is 35.
Why should the second guy be taxed at a higher rate than the first guy. He will already pay more taxes even if he stays at the same rate because he is earning more money? Why punish him for working harder and therefore discourage him from doing so? Why reward the lazy guy with a lower tax rate? I'm not being sarcastic either I am honestly interested in your answer.
What a lot of people don't realise when they say they want to punish the rich with higher taxes is that it isn't the rich that pay the higher taxes. They know the loopholes and pay big dollar accounting firms to help them pay zero taxes. The people that get hurt are the mom and pop shop owners that have 10-20employee's, farmers, maybe a grocery store or resturant owner, maybe they own a quick lube place, a bar, any number of small businesses. Those people fall into the same category as the super rich but they are barely making it as it is. When you raise thier taxes they lay people off or go out of business.
If you want to have jobs you need to have companies that will hire people to do the jobs and if a company cannot make a profit then noone will invest the blood and sweat that it takes to start a company and run it so there won't be any jobs. We can't all work for the government. They tried that in Russia and North Korea and Cuba and it didn't work out too well.
Stella_Omega
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NO, those people really do not fall into the same category as the super rich. They do not make the same kind of money that the super rich make.
Come on JNaylor, I can tell you haven't read any of the links I gave you.
Come on JNaylor, I can tell you haven't read any of the links I gave you.
Actually I haven't read them yet but I will. They do fall into the same category though Stella because Obama wants to raise taxes on everyone making over $250,000.00 which includes all those people I mentioned. People think that $250,000.00 a year makes you rich but it doesn't today, yet they get lumped into the same tax hike as guys like Bill Gates. Thats the point I was trying to make. I'll try to get your stuff read today and get back to you. I really am interested in your answer though.
Safe_Bet
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Answer my question first, before you ask people to answer yours.
What's wrong with the people with 97% of the wealth only paying 87% of the taxes.
BTW, nice try trying to say Obama and GE are bestest buddies so that's why they didn't pay taxes. It's not flying though cuz the tax breaks they took advantage of were put in place under Bush the Elder and expanded upon under the Rethugliklan congress led by Newt the Liar.
Safe_Bet
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JNaylor you said that GE gave "tens of millions" to the Obama campaign. Please give references to this alleged fact.
In reality they did no such thing. It's just more of your Tea Party rhetoric. Either back up your statement with references or admit your were talking shit (again).
In reality they did no such thing. It's just more of your Tea Party rhetoric. Either back up your statement with references or admit your were talking shit (again).
First of all I didn't say thats why they didn't pay taxes. I said thats why they got no bid contracts and grants and why Imelts works for the whitehouse. Pay attention.
Whats wrong with it is that 50% of the population pays nothing. I take it you fall into the category of people that recieves your pay from the government and therefore want people to pay more of the money they make so the government can give it to you. Its not fair when the government takes from one group to give to another. I'm not one of those rich people. I'm not worth billions but I don't feel that I have a right to any of their money.
Listen I don't spend my day surfing the web looking up tedious facts to support my arguments. Watch the news its been widely reported that GE has donated millions to the Obama adminsitration. You can deny it if you wish it doesn't matter to me either way. Now answer my question.
Safe_Bet
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Stella_Omega
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Please, check your facts when you say these things.
I know that facts are "tedious" but the lack of them lets you believe fox news lies.
http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-taxrate_3.png
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Pfffft! So in other words you got nothing and were just making up shit again!
No it means I work for a living and don't have time to compile data so I can argue with you. The abscense of a link to supporting data does not automatically render my claim false.
I am not trying to persuade you to change your mind or accept any of my facts I am honestly interested in why those on the left are so adament that people that work harder should be punished with a higher tax rate.
I'll give you an example. Years ago I was being paid $15.00 per hour. I was working a lot of overtime and would take home around $1,200.00 per week. I worked every sunday for almost a year because on Sunday I was paid triple time (an incentive\reward to work harder). So by working 10 hours on sunday I would gross an additional $450.00 per week. Not bad for a days work when your a young man.
One week I didn't work on sunday. When I got my check it was only $9.00 dollars less than all of my previous checks that I recieved for working sundays.
So the government took 98% of my pay for working sunday. It cost me that much in gas to drive to work. After that I didn't work anymore sundays so instead of the government getting an extra 441 dollars a week they got zero. That is exactly the effect that higher taxes have on people and companies and the end result is less revenue to the government. Kennedy and Reagen lowered taxes and increased revenue to the government. When taxes are rasied revenue declines..look it up.
Therefore you can only conclude that people want higher taxes to be punitive and to transfer wealth from one class to another because they know if they do so the recipients of the cash will in turn vote for them and keep them in power, vote buying is the oldest trick in the political book and it works every time its tried. Since the 1960's we transferred more than three trillion dollars to the poor and guess what..they are still poor. When you pay people (reward) not to work and punish people that do work the government takes in less and spends more until it ultimately collapses. Read history, see what happened to the soviet union, north korea, cuba, all thriving nations until they adopted marxists principles like we are doing now. Go back to the fall of the roman empire and you'll see a similar story. The ghettos did not exist until Lyndon Johnson created the welfare system.
Like I said, I'm not trying to change your mind because that would be impossible, but I would like to understand your perspective because it makes no sense to me.
I don't mean that they will be in the same tax bracket stella rather that everyone making over 250 k will see thier taxes raised. I've heard Obama say it on a dozen occasions.
I tried to open your links but I keep getting page not available. Is there another route to get to them?
Pfffft! So in other words you got nothing and were just making up shit again!
I see you still haven't answered my question.....
Pfffft! So in other words you got nothing and were just making up shit again!
I stand corrected. GE did not donate tens of millions to Obama but they did donate more than a half million which made them one of the top seven or eight doners to his campaign.
They have spent 200,000 milion in the last decade lobbying washington mostly in the area of taxes.
I am happpy to admit it when I am wrong.
Stella_Omega
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Sorry, what you said is that mom and pop business owners are the same bracket as the multi-millionaires.
here you go:
A blogger reports regarding corporate attempts to dismantle this republic
There are a lot of links in that page. If you give half a shit about the things we've beentalking about, you really should investigate them.
the story about peter max and the wall street brokers
A whole page of graphs outlining the money inequality in America
I just re-read it..it does sound like I was saying that they were in the same bracket but I said category not bracket. Didn't mean to imply the same bracket.
Stella_Omega
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They aren't even in the same fucking category.
Please, I am not really enjoying your weaseling here.
http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-who%27swinning_3.png
No weaseling I'm not sure what you don't understand. If Obama want to raise taxes on everyone over $250,000.00 per year that includes your local bar or grocery store owner as well as Warren buffet. In actuality the people at the lower end of the scale will pay more than Warren Buffet. Buffet just said the other day that he paid less taxes than his secretary did because he is able to take advantages of loopholes that she cannot. So who gets hurt worse, the guy makeing 250K or Warren Buffet?
I hear people like Obama, Al gore, Hollywood celebs, the very wealthy Nanci Pelosi and Barbara Boxer say we need higher taxes, yet if they feel that way why don't they voluntarily pay in more than what is owed? Why do they also take advantage of the loopholes? Al Gore loves to fly around on his G2 and tell us to pay more taxes and drive electric cars. I see no sacrifice on his part.
Anyway I'll read the information you sent me and maybe it will become more clear. I'm really not trying to be combative its something I have wondered about for years and really am trying to understand your viewpoint. I know when you read something its easy to read sarcasm into it but I don't intend to be.
Stella_Omega
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So what you're saying then, is that he wants to raise everyone's taxes the same amount? A guy who makes 250,000 will be taxed at the same rate as the guy who makes 3,000,000,000 a year?
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