THIS is "oppression" and "discrimination."

[Stella_Omega]

I agree with you. Most of those CEO types are type a personalities and its a big game to them. I can't tell you how many meetings I have sat in with CEO's saying they are going to take thier companies to 1 billion in sales. They buy up all of thier competition and grow like crazy and focus only on the 1 billion figure..none of them ever made it. The companies usually flamed out within five years. If they would have been content to make a good profit with steady growth they would still be in business. Wall street types are the worst, they produce nothing, have no product yet can bring down companies that they never set foot in and not lose a moments rest.

See-- you say this, but in the beginning you were blaming the government for all those shut down shops. And the thing is, those companies did generate a billion dollars. Where did that money go? It sure didn't find its way back into the general economy.

I have heard the name Peter Max but don't know much about him. A little before my time. I will read up on him though now that you've mentioned it.

It isn't peter Max in particular that is important here, though. It's the example, that shows what we are up against. Please read that particular link-- it's a fascinating story!

 

[JNaylor]

See-- you say this, but in the beginning you were blaming the government for all those shut down shops. And the thing is, those companies did generate a billion dollars. Where did that money go? It sure didn't find its way back into the general economy. It isn't peter Max in particular that is important here, though. It's the example, that shows what we are up against. Please read that particular link-- it's a fascinating story!

You make

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's pretty disgusting all the way around.

The thing is, you are apportioning equal blame to the people who DO the work, who want a raise for the work they actually do-- even if it's 45 dollars an hour-- as you are to the CEOs who demand-- and GET-- bonuses that can easily amount to 80% of a company's net worth. Those guys get fortyfive dollars a MINUTE. And they are telling YOU that YOUR work isn't worth so much.

That's a little lopsided. Those two forms of "greed" are not the same. And nothing is trickling down.

Another link;
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

I know it's a "leftie" publication. But if you don't want to believe what it says, please-- go look for refuting evidence. Don't just dismiss what it says out of hand.

 

[Safe_Bet]

The bad thing now is that there is a glut of closed plants all over the country but if you want to buy one and put it to use the EPA makes it impossible to do so. If you buy that plant you take on the responsibility for any polution that may have taken place on the site even if it happened a 100 years ago and it can cost millions of dollars to clean it up even though you didn't make the mess. As a result new land is cleared, more iron and copper is mined from the earth, and a new plant is built where there used to be trees and forest, and in additon to the new plant the old plant is left rotting into the ground with all the others. So which is better for the environment?

**SNERK**. Yeah. Sorry dude, but even the EPA learned from sites like Love Canal. They NEED to be cleaned up FIRST! (or maybe you don't care about things like school kids playing in pools of known carcinogens. :eyeroll: )

 

[Stella_Omega]

**SNERK**. Yeah. Sorry dude, but even the EPA learned from sites like Love Canal. They NEED to be cleaned up FIRST! (or maybe you don't care about things like school kids playing in pools of known carcinogens. :eyeroll: )

I love it that you're posting to the point, but do you have to include an insulting assumption in every post?

If you do-- could you maybe go elsewhere?

 

[JNaylor]

It's pretty disgusting all the way around.

The thing is, you are apportioning equal blame to the people who DO the work, who want a raise for the work they actually do-- even if it's 45 dollars an hour-- as you are to the CEOs who demand-- and GET-- bonuses that can easily amount to 80% of a company's net worth. Those guys get fortyfive dollars a MINUTE. And they are telling YOU that YOUR work isn't worth so much.

That's a little lopsided. Those two forms of "greed" are not the same. And nothing is trickling down.

Another link;
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

I know it's a "leftie" publication. But if you don't want to believe what it says, please-- go look for refuting evidence. Don't just dismiss what it says out of hand.

I will check it out with an open mind.

 

[JNaylor]

**SNERK**. Yeah. Sorry dude, but even the EPA learned from sites like Love Canal. They NEED to be cleaned up FIRST! (or maybe you don't care about things like school kids playing in pools of known carcinogens. :eyeroll: )

Yes, yes y

 

[Safe_Bet]

I love it that you're posting to the point, but do you have to include an insulting assumption in every post?

If you do-- could you maybe go elsewhere?

Don't like what I post? Then either don't read it or put me on ignore. You get to do that, ya know. What you don't get to do is try to chase me out of this forum. If Etoile or Laurel have an issue with me I'm sure they'll let me know.

BTW, I DO find it mildly amusing that you are standing up for the guy who routinely has insulted me. ('course I don't suppose him calling me a racist, a moron, a communist, etc. makes any difference. Nor does the fact that he's either contradicted and/or amended almost ever one of the alleged "facts" he's spewed).

 

[teknight]

True, but if your company is not making profit there won't be fewer employee's and eventually no employee's and the higher the profit the higher the employee's wages can go.

Come again?

As long as you can cover costs (which, again, include wages/salaries, what have you) the number of employees can stay the same, ceteris paribus.

With higher profits, the company could also expand, thus taking on more employees at the same wage level.

 

[teknight]

</snip>
Wall street types are the worst, they produce nothing, have no product yet can bring down companies that they never set foot in and not lose a moments rest.

Yup. Investment is evil, and all existing companies out there should continue existing 'cause they're providing jobs to a (relatively) small number of people.
Getting money to where it's needed is indeed evil.


Just to make it clear: that was sarcasm.

 

[JNaylor]

Come again?

As long as you can cover costs (which, again, include wages/salaries, what have you) the number of employees can stay the same, ceteris paribus.

With higher profits, the company could also expand, thus taking on more employees at the same wage level.

True, as

 

[JNaylor]

Yup. Investment is evil, and all existing companies out there should continue existing 'cause they're providing jobs to a (relatively) small number of people.
Getting money to where it's needed is indeed evil.


Just to make it clear: that was sarcasm.

Nothing evil

 

[hoodooman]

this belongs somewhere else

why is this topic here? It's not only not the subject for glbt chatter it's terribly boring

 

[Safe_Bet]

Not sure what you mean by getting the money where it needs to go. Money goes where it is spent by those that earn it.

^^ Quite possibly the most myopic comment I've read this year. ^^

 

[Stella_Omega]

^^ Quite possibly the most myopic comment I've read this year. ^^

I am absolutely in agreement with you on this one.

 

[Stella_Omega]

why is this topic here? It's not only not the subject for glbt chatter it's terribly boring

Because some queers think it's important.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Doesn't it bother you that when the economy fell apart the government rushed in to bail out wall street, even though they don't produce any goods or servicesor put anyone to work, rather than the companies that provide all (non-governmental) jobs?

Of course it bothered the fuck out of me. Have you ever asked yourself how it happened? Who made that deal? How it got rammed down the public's throats? Who got bulldozed? Which senators and representatives benefited?

And-- who's watch it happened on? It wasn't Obama.

 

[JNaylor]

Of course it bothered the fuck out of me. Have you ever asked yourself how it happened? Who made that deal? How it got rammed down the public's throats? Who got bulldozed? Which senators and representatives benefited?

And-- who's watch it happened on? It wasn't Obama.

Wall streets been bailed out by both parties and I hate it every time it happens. Politicians on both sides of the aisle get their palms greased equally by the wall street machine. There's not a dimes worth of difference between the two parties and I don't give a damn for either one.

I know very well how it happened and it will keep on happening. It started with Clinton, continued with Bush and Dodd and frank and the whole fannie mae freddie mac debacle, it happened under a republican president and a democratic congress. There's no one person to blame the whole damn lot of them are corrupt. It may not have been Obamas fault but after three years he sure hasn't been able to do much to fix it or shown much leadership. I don't put a lot of faith in the washington crowd to do anything other than worry about getting re-elected.

 

[SubmissiveBrat]

Wall streets been bailed out by both parties and I hate it every time it happens. Politicians on both sides of the aisle get their palms greased equally by the wall street machine. There's not a dimes worth of difference between the two parties and I don't give a damn for either one.

I know very well how it happened and it will keep on happening. It started with Clinton, continued with Bush and Dodd and frank and the whole fannie mae freddie mac debacle, it happened under a republican president and a democratic congress. There's no one person to blame the whole damn lot of them are corrupt. It may not have been Obamas fault but after three years he sure hasn't been able to do much to fix it or shown much leadership. I don't put a lot of faith in the washington crowd to do anything other than worry about getting re-elected.

To much bipartisan finger pointing and not enough collaboration.

 

[Stella_Omega]

How much leadership would you be able to show, do you think, in Obama's place?

What would you do differently?

It's not a trick question. It's something I've wondered about for myself, too. And truthfully, I have no answers. But since i have no answers, I can't place all the blame on the few people who are on my side even nominally.

To much bipartisan finger pointing and not enough collaboration.

Collaborate with what? Have you been watching the budget talks at all? have you been seeing the way the repubs shoot down every single centrist-- not even left leaning-- nominee and have gutted every oversight committee?

The only thing that's on the agenda at all with the republicans is the destruction of the American middle class and infrastructure. There had damn well better be some non-collaboration going on.

 

[SubmissiveBrat]

How much leadership would you be able to show, do you think, in Obama's place?

What would you do differently?

It's not a trick question. It's something I've wondered about for myself, too. And truthfully, I have no answers. But since i have no answers, I can't place all the blame on the few people who are on my side even nominally.

Collaborate with what? Have you been watching the budget talks at all? have you been seeing the way the repubs shoot down every single centrist-- not even left leaning-- nominee and have gutted every oversight committee?

The only thing that's on the agenda at all with the republicans is the destruction of the American middle class and infrastructure. There had damn well better be some non-collaboration going on.

You just validated my comment.

 

[JNaylor]

To much bipartisan finger pointing and not enough collaboration.

It would take days to go over this one...I really don't have the desire to go down this path. Were clearly from different sides of the politcal spectrum and I don't want to try to persuade anyone to agree with me or listen to anyone try to get me to agree with them. Thats not why I'm on LIT.

Its been fun but I'm going to bail and get back to the fun stuff on LIT.

Stella, once again thank you for the fair treatment and the honest debate. You argue well and persuaded me on more than one occasion to come around to your way of thinking. You alone have proven that people of different mindsets can engage in a respectful debate, even though it got a little heated at times, without resorting to foul language and name calling and I respect that and appreciate it and enjoyed it. I will read the links you sent me and PM you with my response. Thanks.

I'm deleting my posts so I don't keep getting drawn back in. I hope I didn't ruin your thread.

 

[teknight]

Not sure what you mean by getting the money where it needs to go. Money goes where it is spent by those that earn it.

It's not pointless gambling. You need to study up ...a lot. If you want "pointless" gambling, you need to go to a casino. A stock's price serves as an indication of a publicly traded company's worth. Companies issue shares in order to attract investors' money, which they then use to buy/ build more overhead, pay employees, do research, etc. Without investment you'd not have that many blue collar jobs, 'cause there'd be no factories and there'd virtually be no industry to speak of.
Besides, what are you gonna do in the face of inflation? Stuff your money in a mattress and watch it lose its value? Or invest it so that it accrues at least the interest rate, maybe more? Shouldn't the earners have a right to their money in the future as well?

What do you think happens to the money you put in banks?

As for the Wall Street bailout- yeah, they grease politicians' pockets. However, the money went to Wall Street because that's where the problem occurred- credit was stuck, and, hate it or not, America doesn't run on Dunkin- it runs on credit.

 

[JNaylor]

How much leadership would you be able to show, do you think, in Obama's place?

What would you do differently?

It's not a trick question. It's something I've wondered about for myself, too. And truthfully, I have no answers. But since i have no answers, I can't place all the blame on the few people who are on my side even nominally.

Collaborate with what? Have you been watching the budget talks at all? have you been seeing the way the repubs shoot down every single centrist-- not even left leaning-- nominee and have gutted every oversight committee?

The only thing that's on the agenda at all with the republicans is the destruction of the American middle class and infrastructure. There had damn well better be some non-collaboration going on.

Well one more then I'm done...

I think there is a lot of leadership he could show. He could propose a plan for one thing, he could make an honest effort to cut spending. It doesn't have to come from medicare and medicaid or social security. There is so much waste in government you could cut billions and billions by consolodating redundant departments, selling off unused government assets that cost billions to maintain, stop giving rediculous amounts of money for these stupid studies, stop giving billions to foriegn countries that hate our guts and use the money to buy weapons to kill our soldiers. Did you know that at the end of every year military bases haul all of thier excess inventory to the dump to be destroyed because if they have left over inventory they will not be able to order as much the next year? I'm sure the same is true for every government beaurocracy.

Right now 50% of the people in this country pay zero taxes. Make them pay a small amount 5 or 10 percent, so they have some skin in the game. Instead they want the top 5 percent, that pay 90% of the taxes already, pay even more.

Whenever they talk about cuts they always say we have to fire teachers and cops and let old people and school kids starve to death..bullshit. Just quit wasting our damn money.

I am not a republican (anymore) but I don't believe they want to destroy the middle class since most of their constituents are middle class...I know,I know your going to say the uber rich are thier constituents, the uber rich give more money to democrats than they do the republicans (think goerge sorros, all of hollywood, Jeffery Imelts and so on) and even if every rich person in the country was a republican they only make up about 2% of the population and couldn't muster enough votes to elect anyone.

As for these last debates the democrats have been just as stubborn as the republicans. Neither side would budge. Dems wouldn't cut spending, repubs wouldn't raise taxes so they were both to blame. I have the news on my tv at work all day long so I heard every word of every argument from both sides.

Thats my 2 cents on the matter.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Right now 50% of the people in this country pay zero taxes. Make them pay a small amount 5 or 10 percent, so they have some skin in the game. Instead they want the top 5 percent, that pay 90% of the taxes already, pay even more.

Whenever they talk about cuts they always say we have to fire teachers and cops and let old people and school kids starve to death..bullshit. Just quit wasting our damn money.

As for these last debates the democrats have been just as stubborn as the republicans. Neither side would budge. Dems wouldn't cut spending, repubs wouldn't raise taxes so they were both to blame. I have the news on my tv at work all day long so I heard every word of every argument from both sides.

Thats my 2 cents on the matter.

Ummm... No. WAY too much wrong info to let this pass, dude.

Firstly, the percentage that the top 5% earners pays is slightly less then 70%.

Secondly, and I'll even expand your numbers to be fair, the top 25% DOES pay almost 87% of all taxes, but they also control 97% of all wealth in the US.

Go ahead, look it up I'll wait. (hint, those figures are based upon the most recent census and IRS tax reports)

BTW, while I'm waiting, mind telling me what's not fair about the people who have 97% of all the money paying 87% of the taxes?

Oh, while your at it, maybe you'd like to fill everybody in on how much in taxes GE, Exxon, Bank of America and Chevron paid last year. (I'll give you another hint: between the two of them it didn't equal $1)

T