TPE Ethics, hypothetical situations, power and responsibility

[catalina_francisco]

Hello Esclava,

Of course you are completely in your right to question any prospects, you actually should grill any possible candidates making sure they are what you want.

It is your right to question any person who would like to become your Dominant, if a Dominant can not accept it then it is time to look for another. You decide to whom you give yourself; you decide to whom you give respect to.

The only way you can become as sure as you possible can be is to let time pass by, make sure you know a person, make sure that you give the other side the time to make mistakes and make sure that enough time has passed by that possible lies will by now have surfaced. Do not commit yourself too early and certainly do not commit yourself if you are not 100 % sure that this is the correct partner for you. Any Dominant who demands or expects a slave to commit too early simply is not worthy of committing to.

Ask questions and expect and demand honesty, do not give trust or respect without it being earned.

Things I would look for in a Dominant if I was submissive, are:

1) Respect
Dominants do not put down everyone nor feel the need to feel superior by diminishing others, they give respect and expect it back from others.

2) Communication
Dominants should be able to communicate with others, to be able to fulfil the fullest potential of their property they need to communicate with them. They must also be capable of communicating in times of stress.

3) Consistency
A Dominant is consistent in words and actions.

4) Knowledge
A Dominant need not be extremely experienced but a Dominant does need to have a some knowledge and also not be afraid or closed to learning.

5) Patience
To be able to dominate successfully a Dominant needs some basic
patience. They need to have enough patience not to rush.

6) Strength
A dominant should not be afraid to dominate.

7) References
If possible ask for some references.

I am sure there are many other things and also this is only my interpretation of a Dominant. It would be a good idea for any submissive to make their own list and look for those qualities they seek in a Dominant.

Francisco.

 

[Etoile]

I really hate brocolli; would I ever be made to eat it?

This has come up for me, in a way. I have been a vegetarian since I was 12 (almost 13). A few times, I have mentioned to Daddy that I'm grateful that e doesn't make me eat meat. E has basically said there's no need for em to do that - why would e want to? It's not something e's interested in changing, though e has changed other things about me. E doesn't seem to understand why I express gratitude that e hasn't asked me to eat meat (which I would do if e wanted me to). I guess even I don't understand why I'm grateful for it.

 

[Etoile]

To see naked Pics of Sarahhh vote a 5 here.


I have a bet with Sarahhh. The Lowest rated story in the Earthday thread wins posted naked PICS of the loser. So if you want to see her naked vote a 5 on her story, or at least a 4

Thanks for your help.

You have posted this in dozens of threads. This is the ultimate in lame.

 

[Esclava]

Thank you, Francisco. There are a few items on your list that I will add to the one I have started, but for the most part, you have reinforced those ideas already churning in my mind.

One of the characteristics you listed was strength. If you have not been able to ascertain from other posts of mine, I am NOT a brown mouse variety submissive (I may be brown, but I am, decidedly, not a mouse). It will take one of great fortitude to subdue the fiery spirit within me. Not brute strength, mind you, but a strength of character that commands the respect I must give them in order to be obedient. That is why I ask so many questions. If I sound aggressive, it is not aggression; it is a hunger for knowledge that has been fed all my life by questioning those who have either the knowledge or the power to answer me. And the patience not to discipline me for my inquisitiveness. It is a Dom/Master of that genre that I seek.

Am I unique in my view of the needs of a passionate submissive? I think not. Unfortunately, I have found more Doms/Masters who do not care for one such as I: intelligent, spirited, intense, adoring, and more obedient than I, myself, can believe sometimes. My online Master has said that there is a r/l replacement for him being prepared to come into my life. I will learn all I can until we find each other.

It is not my desire to hijak this thread, but I have another question which begs to be asked. So, I may start my second thread (wow, was my first thread a barn burner!)

Thanks for all the information. Be well,

Esclava

Edited because the "c" on my keyboard is pmsing and made me mispell "hijack" E

 

[Esclava]

Ugh! Got to hate the dreaded double post!!!

Esclava

 

[Pure]

Just a note to Esclava and Francisco on the fine list of noble qualities:

Does it differ at all from the virtues of a good old fashioned dad?

I have a concern too, for the idealization. Reminds me of the old joke.

There was a woman looking for the perfect man. She found him.... and found that he was looking for the perfect woman!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thank you, Francisco. There are a few items on your list that I will add to the one I have started, but for the most part, you have reinforced those ideas already churning in my mind.

One of the characteristics you listed was strength. If you have not been able to ascertain from other posts of mine, I am NOT a brown mouse variety submissive (I may be brown, but I am, decidedly, not a mouse). It will take one of great fortitude to subdue the fiery spirit within me. Not brute strength, mind you, but a strength of character that commands the respect I must give them in order to be obedient. That is why I ask so many questions. If I sound aggressive, it is not aggression; it is a hunger for knowledge that has been fed all my life by questioning those who have either the knowledge or the power to answer me. And the patience not to discipline me for my inquisitiveness. It is a Dom/Master of that genre that I seek.

Am I unique in my view of the needs of a passionate submissive? I think not. Unfortunately, I have found more Doms/Masters who do not care for one such as I: intelligent, spirited, intense, adoring, and more obedient than I, myself, can believe sometimes. My online Master has said that there is a r/l replacement for him being prepared to come into my life. I will learn all I can until we find each other.


Esclava

I can identify with your determination to be both submissive and strong without being aggressive. I was more fortunate than it seems you have been in that during my search, I came across many Dominants who preferred someone like you and I seem to be, who not only knew who they were, but had strength and spirit which was not about to dissolve overnight. It was seen as an asset and had no bearing on why they did not become my Master. Most of them still remain my firends now and are not reluctant to admit they still admire that quality....so your online D is right in encouraging you to believe it is a valued and sought after quality.

It is worth the patience and searching to find that one who is as close to perfection for you, as you will be for him. It seems some think it is all about filling out a list of requirements, and then taking the first one who comes along and resembles that description. That is idealistic and forgets there needs to be compatibility on so many levels before a permanent future can be contemplated, or submission occuring. Add to that both people have to feel as content with the choice before it can even be considered and it becomes more complicated, but never impossible.

As we all know, true perfection does not exist, but to settle for a relationship with someone you feel has nothing or little to offer in relation to your needs just so you can have someone is a fool's game and bound for disaster. It is about finding the one you feel is perfect for you, you for him, and recognising there is more than just a momentary, superficial attraction. I see in your words you are committed to waiting for that perfection which speaks volumes to you and he, and just as we have found, I am sure you will realise your dream and live the reality.

Catalina

 

[Esclava]

I can identify with your determination to be both submissive and strong without being aggressive. I was more fortunate than it seems you have been in that during my search, I came across many Dominants who preferred someone like you and I seem to be, who not only knew who they were, but had strength and spirit which was not about to dissolve overnight. It was seen as an asset and had no bearing on why they did not become my Master. Most of them still remain my firends now and are not reluctant to admit they still admire that quality....so your online D is right in encouraging you to believe it is a valued and sought after quality.

It is worth the patience and searching to find that one who is as close to perfection for you, as you will be for him. It seems some think it is all about filling out a list of requirements, and then taking the first one who comes along and resembles that description. That is idealistic and forgets there needs to be compatibility on so many levels before a permanent future can be contemplated, or submission occuring. Add to that both people have to feel as content with the choice before it can even be considered and it becomes more complicated, but never impossible.

As we all know, true perfection does not exist, but to settle for a relationship with someone you feel has nothing or little to offer in relation to your needs just so you can have someone is a fool's game and bound for disaster. It is about finding the one you feel is perfect for you, you for him, and recognising there is more than just a momentary, superficial attraction. I see in your words you are committed to waiting for that perfection which speaks volumes to you and he, and just as we have found, I am sure you will realise your dream and live the reality.

Catalina

Food for thought, indeed, Catalina. I am determined not to settle for that which is not beneficial to me. I would be much happier to meet and converse with Doms that value those characteristics in me that are strong.

I am submissive - but I am not weak. I am submissive - but I am not mindless. I am submissive - but I do question that which does not make sense - to ensure Master has made his desires clear. It does not mean that he always listens to me, but he WILL reiterate that he has said exactly what he means and brook no further argument.

I, very easily, submit to authority like that.

Esclava

 

[Pure]

Esclava, I'm concerned that you have yourself so (too?) well and neatly defined.

J.

 

[Esclava]

Esclava, I'm concerned that you have yourself so (too?) well and neatly defined.

J.

Your concern is understandable in light of the number of times, I am sure, you have come in contact with those who were "so (too?) well and neatly defined" who turned out to be fakes - playing a game with themselves and you. You have me mistaken.

I have spent a number of years in good (and bad) relationships. I stayed in some of the bad ones by my own choosing either because it was of benefit to my children or because I was not strong enough to leave.

My children are now grown and living on their own. I no longer have them as my primary responsibility. I am now my primary responsibility. Does having learned what I like and don't like - what I do and do not want - make me "so (too?) well and neatly defined"?

I think not. I have tallied the hits and misses and now is when I can reflect on what was positive in each relationship and what was negative; then use that information to watch for someone willing to meet me in the middle. And if that halfway meeting develops to where I see more things that are positive in my life, THAT is when the field will be fertile for power exchange. Does knowing myself - where I've been as well as where I would like to go - make me "so (too?) well and neatly defined"?

I think not. However, it does allow me to compare what makes me happy to what would make someone else happy in the beginning of a relationship. Before, I simply accepted the intentions of one I did not care for - because of comfort or convenience - believing that person would "grow" on me. As I am a woman of independent means, neither of those reasons are valid or acceptable any longer.

Edited to add:

Dang it, hit submit before I finished my thought!

How can you call the strength not to be weak, the confidence not to be mindless, and the sincerity to ask when in doubt "well and neatly defined"? IMOHO, those are all characteristics that change as each situation changes - with the fluidity of mercury. I try very hard to live each day as it is given to me, "To dream as though I'll live forever and live as though I'll die tomorrow." I am not a package all wrapped up waiting to be opened by the Dom of my dreams. WHOEVER that turns out to be will have their hands full and it will not be an emotional walk in the park. But the rewards to one so inclined to meet the challenge will be great, I assure you.

Esclava

 

[catalina_francisco]

Your concern is understandable in light of the number of times, I am sure, you have come in contact with those who were "so (too?) well and neatly defined" who turned out to be fakes - playing a game with themselves and you. You have me mistaken.

I have spent a number of years in good (and bad) relationships. I stayed in some of the bad ones by my own choosing either because it was of benefit to my children or because I was not strong enough to leave.

My children are now grown and living on their own. I no longer have them as my primary responsibility. I am now my primary responsibility. Does having learned what I like and don't like - what I do and do not want - make me "so (too?) well and neatly defined"?

I think not. I have tallied the hits and misses and now is when I can reflect on what was positive in each relationship and what was negative; then use that information to watch for someone willing to meet me in the middle. And if that halfway meeting develops to where I see more things that are positive in my life, THAT is when the field will be fertile for power exchange. Does knowing myself - where I've been as well as where I would like to go - make me "so (too?) well and neatly defined"?

I think not. However, it does allow me to compare what makes me happy to what would make someone else happy in the beginning of a relationship. Before, I simply accepted the intentions of one I did not care for - because of comfort or convenience - believing that person would "grow" on me. As I am a woman of independent means, neither of those reasons are valid or acceptable any longer.

Edited to add:

Dang it, hit submit before I finished my thought!

How can you call the strength not to be weak, the confidence not to be mindless, and the sincerity to ask when in doubt "well and neatly defined"? IMOHO, those are all characteristics that change as each situation changes - with the fluidity of mercury. I try very hard to live each day as it is given to me, "To dream as though I'll live forever and live as though I'll die tomorrow." I am not a package all wrapped up waiting to be opened by the Dom of my dreams. WHOEVER that turns out to be will have their hands full and it will not be an emotional walk in the park. But the rewards to one so inclined to meet the challenge will be great, I assure you.

Esclava

I think for many, especially if they have not done a lot of self examination of their life experiences, it becomes difficult to understand those who have. As you say Esclava it is near impossible to be happy with someone if you don't know beforehand what you need to make yourself happy. Too many seek a relationship, vanilla and lifestyle, to 'fix' themselves, fill that void they know is there, without doing anything toward fixing it themselves or finding out for sure what is missing. It usually does not work. To do the work, face the truth, acknowledge the mistakes and triumphs, the wants and needs, and go from there takes maturity and courage.

There seems to be this mythical belief with some that as long as you are submissive, that is all that counts and needs knowing and you just accept the first Dominant who wants you. The chances are it won't work out. Most Dominants are not looking for someone to fix or provide with a life, but are willing to work with someone who knows themselves and accepts themselves. There also seems to be a misconception that a submissive who can define what they need and want, is inflexible and ready to TFTB at a moment's notice. Actually it is usually those who can define clearly who will not find themselves locked into set ways, or tempted to TFTB, as they have approached the relationship with their eyes wide open, not seeking to receive a mystery gift which will make everything perfect as if by magic. D/s and TPE are not that easy, even if it is something you want with all your heart and soul.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I just wanted to add that even knowing yourself and your partner it is not a walk in the park. It takes a lot of hard work and willingness from all parties involved to make the relationship succesful. Without that knowledge though it is almost impossible.

Sometimes Catalina and I might come over as having the perfect relationship, never having problems, always everything being well defined and clear. We are humans and we face our challenges too, but we face them together and we do not turn away from them.

This is in my opinion what makes a succesfyl relationship, the willingness to face whatever might be coming together. The willingness to accept each other's imperfections because it is those imperfections that create a perfect partner.

Francisco.

 

[Esclava]

I think for many, especially if they have not done a lot of self examination of their life experiences, it becomes difficult to understand those who have. As you say Esclava it is near impossible to be happy with someone if you don't know beforehand what you need to make yourself happy. Too many seek a relationship, vanilla and lifestyle, to 'fix' themselves, fill that void they know is there, without doing anything toward fixing it themselves or finding out for sure what is missing. It usually does not work. To do the work, face the truth, acknowledge the mistakes and triumphs, the wants and needs, and go from there takes maturity and courage.

<snip> D/s and TPE are not that easy, even if it is something you want with all your heart and soul.

Catalina

Thank you, Francisco and Catalina. I HAVE done a lot of self examination - I have spent the last two years analysing why my long term relationships have failed. I have also faced a lot of truths about myself and my input into the failure of each one. NO ONE can fix anything about me that I cannot fix. How can I hope to be part of someone else's happiness if I am not happy with myself? I will never be able to submit to someone if my spirit is shackled to old history, issues and baggage.

D/s and TPE are NOT easy. Relationships are NOT easy. As Francisco said, they all take a lot of hard work. For people to grow together in any relationship, they each have to know themselves well enough - to be flexible enough - to step together in the same direction.

Esclava

 

[catalina_francisco]

Nostalgic bump...

 

[A Desert Rose]

Nostalgic bump...

And an excellent bump, at that.

One wonders though, if anyone who needs to read it, will... aside from the "old posters" like me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

And an excellent bump, at that.

One wonders though, if anyone who needs to read it, will... aside from the "old posters" like me.

LOL, love reading some of the old threads and seeing missed friends posts, as well as the changes some of us have made in our journeys, the memories sparked by reading back in time, albeit only a few months or a year.


Catalina

 

[Esclava]

Wow!

I remember ... this was one of the first threads I posted to.

Since posting out here, I've discovered my 10 Keys - those things I know must be present if I am to be happily submissive. They were difficult to ascertain; but when they came to me, it was as though water falling over a huge cliff in great rolling waves.

I will know if my "locks" can be opened once I locate a Dom/me capable of holding the keys. Which is something we will find out as we open the locks together.

Esclava

 

[catalina_francisco]

Wow!

I remember ... this was one of the first threads I posted to.

Since posting out here, I've discovered my 10 Keys - those things I know must be present if I am to be happily submissive. They were difficult to ascertain; but when they came to me, it was as though water falling over a huge cliff in great rolling waves.

I will know if my "locks" can be opened once I locate a Dom/me capable of holding the keys. Which is something we will find out as we open the locks together.

Esclava

I hope you find that one who is able and willing to make both your dreams come true.

Catalina

 

[velvet_crush]

I had some questions about TPE relationships and found this.

Thought I'd bump it.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I joined after Francisco stopped posting here and when I see old threads and read his insightful thoughts, it always saddens me a little that I missed out.

Master and I have a TPE relationship and it is progressing as well as can be expected. He has the final say in all decisions but that brings with it a responsibility to seek my thoughts and opinions and ensure that my voice is heard.

It's easy to say that in modern western society one can never be a true slave. I think that slavery is often the wrong term because in the past, slaves have been forced into their role with no consent given whatsoever. Consensual slavery is a different animal completely.

As others said, I chose to give myself to Master because our world view, our tastes and limits were well matched. I wrote a contract ceding my rights to him and it meant a great deal to both of us. I know it's not legally enforceable but at the same time, it does govern my life in real terms. Slavery is my daily reality, everything I do is with him in mind. I make no major decisions or expenditures. Everything I am and all that I 'own' is his to use as he wishes. I don't cry foul if he makes a decision that I don't like. I support him wholeheartedly because I stand by my choice to become his slave in the first place.

I know he values me as his property and would never deliberately cause me lasting physical or psychological harm. People always say that the sub is the one with the control because they set limits. One might just as easily say that a car has ultimate control of the driver because it has needs and limits. It simply isn't the case. Master has a responsibility to ensure that my basic needs are met but beyond that I am his property and my value lies in how useful I am to him.

There are always little exceptions. In an emergency situation I am not about to wring my hands impotently and follow the rules he has set for me without discretion. We both live in the real world and as long as I can justify any deviation from the requirements he has set for me, he will understand. Master is a human being with a heart and a soul and all he really cares is that I strive always to do my best for him. As long as I do that, my service will always be to an acceptable standard. He isn't an ogre and he doesn't set me up to fail (unless we're playing around) because my morale is important to him.

Well that was a bit of a ramble but it pretty much sums up my feelings about TPE.

 

[YourCaptor]

Total power exchange to me is something extremely special. I have tired several times now but the rite words to describe it don't really seem to come out.

So, its good, its really good.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

So, its good, its really good.

Oh yeah, that too.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I joined after Francisco stopped posting here and when I see old threads and read his insightful thoughts, it always saddens me a little that I missed out.

I miss him posting here too.

Catalina

 

[littlebirdjoy]

Wow!

I remember ... this was one of the first threads I posted to.

Since posting out here, I've discovered my 10 Keys - those things I know must be present if I am to be happily submissive. They were difficult to ascertain; but when they came to me, it was as though water falling over a huge cliff in great rolling waves.

I will know if my "locks" can be opened once I locate a Dom/me capable of holding the keys. Which is something we will find out as we open the locks together.

Esclava

Before anyone throws tomatoes at me for bumping a 15 year old thread... please read through it and tell me there is anything of its worth or caliber of discussion currently going... then tomato away.

I was ruminating over my post from yesterday and speaking with someone privately about it, and my acknowledgement that the *work* of the issue is not yet done, when I remembered this post from ages past. I was looking for two specific threads and the posts in them to return back to my own roots.

I loved the "keys" concept, and how it was worded when I first read it, and I love its depth even more today. Being a decade and a half older and wiser the concept has definitely taken on new meaning. The thread itself and its concepts have also completely changed for me. I find it sad how many of these terms and distinctions have disappeared into the sands of time as this lifestyle has to a degree worked out its own kinks and knots. Though the question/argument of if TPE actually does or does not exist is still alive and well in current and ever present dialogue.

My Master and I have done a lot of discussion around the concept as it relates to what we expect of life moving forward, both in distance and when eventually life allows us to be present. For me, I love Catalina's distinction of how she no longer continued to weigh her own opinion vs Francisco's is the key. Yes, she always sought clarification, and was able to bring up concerns but the moment it was clear he had communicated intentionally and explicitly that was the end of the matter. This is where I stand as well. Though I will admit that it still takes concerted effort, and at times I fail.

A well meaning Dominant recently used the example "if you were raped in the street would you not call the police before contacting your Master?" To which I responded that I have a level of ability to work within my Master's protocols and expectations for most everyday issues. God forbid, even this... I would know his expectations. #1 preserve health and safety of myself and my child (don't let harm come to what is his) #2 maintain my work and home as I am an extension of him (and someday, when I'm there, I will only have the responsibilities he sees fit to give me be it work, home, family etc) and then everything past that we discuss. If we have faced it before then I follow what we have done. If I have not faced it before, I use my best judgment and then we talk about it when we can. As long as I've acted in good faith then even if I guessed wrong, no harm no foul and he tells me what is expected next time. Do I fail? YEP. I do. sometimes. But i always keep working at it.

Someone else on the thread brought up the concern about acting as your own moral agent. This is a concept that we went round and round about for a good solid two months when I was first handed my copy of our proposed contract. He wrote it better than I ever could. "The presence of a contract does not mean that a person entered in the condition of servitude voluntarily. In a contract of self-enslavement, there is no mutuality. In truth, the slave loses all and has everything to gain which negates his choices, and thus his consent. Since the slave loses his status as a moral agent once the contract is enacted, the slave cannot act to enforce anything owed to him by his master which makes choosing a master wisely a most important decision. There is but a fine line separating a benevolent leader from a ruthless tyrant and this distinction is sometimes impossible to make at first glance."

Now I am an educated person, but I had never considered the term "moral agent" and it struck me on such a deep level. Needless to say, the fact that he reminds me constantly "there is a reason you have chosen me. There is a reason you acknowledge that I can guide and lead your life in ways that you could not guide and lead yourself." One of the things that we have taken great time and effort in is making sure that we can feel compatible on a moral and ethical level, specifically for this reason. It can not feel like a constant tug of war. Where there is a difference I have to be able to sincerely and truly give this over and acknowledge that while my own personal opinion may differ, it no longer needs or merits discussion as it factors into decisions, unless it #1 is necessary for clarification, #2 might impact the safety of what is his, or #3 edges against something that would break our contract, or lastly #4 he requests it. Which he typically does. He respects my mind and my ethics immensely.

Here's to hoping to bring great and deep discussion back in 2020.
Angie

 

[Master_Doctor]

Before anyone throws tomatoes at me for bumping a 15 year old thread... please read through it and tell me there is anything of its worth or caliber of discussion currently going... then tomato away.

I was ruminating over my post from yesterday and speaking with someone privately about it, and my acknowledgement that the *work* of the issue is not yet done, when I remembered this post from ages past. I was looking for two specific threads and the posts in them to return back to my own roots.

I loved the "keys" concept, and how it was worded when I first read it, and I love its depth even more today. Being a decade and a half older and wiser the concept has definitely taken on new meaning. The thread itself and its concepts have also completely changed for me. I find it sad how many of these terms and distinctions have disappeared into the sands of time as this lifestyle has to a degree worked out its own kinks and knots. Though the question/argument of if TPE actually does or does not exist is still alive and well in current and ever present dialogue.

My Master and I have done a lot of discussion around the concept as it relates to what we expect of life moving forward, both in distance and when eventually life allows us to be present. For me, I love Catalina's distinction of how she no longer continued to weigh her own opinion vs Francisco's is the key. Yes, she always sought clarification, and was able to bring up concerns but the moment it was clear he had communicated intentionally and explicitly that was the end of the matter. This is where I stand as well. Though I will admit that it still takes concerted effort, and at times I fail.

A well meaning Dominant recently used the example "if you were raped in the street would you not call the police before contacting your Master?" To which I responded that I have a level of ability to work within my Master's protocols and expectations for most everyday issues. God forbid, even this... I would know his expectations. #1 preserve health and safety of myself and my child (don't let harm come to what is his) #2 maintain my work and home as I am an extension of him (and someday, when I'm there, I will only have the responsibilities he sees fit to give me be it work, home, family etc) and then everything past that we discuss. If we have faced it before then I follow what we have done. If I have not faced it before, I use my best judgment and then we talk about it when we can. As long as I've acted in good faith then even if I guessed wrong, no harm no foul and he tells me what is expected next time. Do I fail? YEP. I do. sometimes. But i always keep working at it.

Someone else on the thread brought up the concern about acting as your own moral agent. This is a concept that we went round and round about for a good solid two months when I was first handed my copy of our proposed contract. He wrote it better than I ever could. "The presence of a contract does not mean that a person entered in the condition of servitude voluntarily. In a contract of self-enslavement, there is no mutuality. In truth, the slave loses all and has everything to gain which negates his choices, and thus his consent. Since the slave loses his status as a moral agent once the contract is enacted, the slave cannot act to enforce anything owed to him by his master which makes choosing a master wisely a most important decision. There is but a fine line separating a benevolent leader from a ruthless tyrant and this distinction is sometimes impossible to make at first glance."

Now I am an educated person, but I had never considered the term "moral agent" and it struck me on such a deep level. Needless to say, the fact that he reminds me constantly "there is a reason you have chosen me. There is a reason you acknowledge that I can guide and lead your life in ways that you could not guide and lead yourself." One of the things that we have taken great time and effort in is making sure that we can feel compatible on a moral and ethical level, specifically for this reason. It can not feel like a constant tug of war. Where there is a difference I have to be able to sincerely and truly give this over and acknowledge that while my own personal opinion may differ, it no longer needs or merits discussion as it factors into decisions, unless it #1 is necessary for clarification, #2 might impact the safety of what is his, or #3 edges against something that would break our contract, or lastly #4 he requests it. Which he typically does. He respects my mind and my ethics immensely.

Here's to hoping to bring great and deep discussion back in 2020.
Angie

Although, I often find that we have much in common... We may have a small deliverance here. Ive had more than 2 decades of contracts and owning wiling and consenting slaves over the years. One of which ive owned for 14 years.

A Contact, more often than not becomes a guideline. Does my slave of 14 years have a contact? Absolutely! When was the last time we pulled it out and checked the letter of the law (so to speak). Its literally been many years. Hence, guideline. IMO a contract serves two purposes, especially for those fairly new to the lifestyle (M/s most notably) dynamics. Clarification and Trust.

One of the largest problems in keeping a successful Long term relationship going is unexpressed expectations. One partner or the other has a set of "obvious" expectations in their head... and when these arent being fulfilled... they get frustrated and angry. When the couple come into counseling the other partner often says: "You never once said that you wanted/ expected this!!" and rightfully so... but the upset partner almost always responds with "Well its obvious! Anyone would feel the same way"

So a contract helps you to clarify for both, your expectations. It always makes me chuckle when you are writing up a contract all the things it reminds you to add... that you wouldnt have written down until your actually doing it.

Trust. When both parties continue to fulfill the agreed upon terms of the contract... it of course builds trust. a TOTAL must in any lifestyle dynamic (or any successful relationship).

The area that I think we might have a difference of opinion is this: you mentioned that once your contact is enacted, that the slave looses their status as a moral agent for themselves. In theory you are correct, but In reality I feel I should add a very large caveat. Regardless of how long a slave has been under contract. they of course retain their status as a self moral agent, because they have the power to break that contact and end the relationship at any time they wish. Just as the Dom/me, Master or Mistress can. You cant in reality excuse yourself from being your own moral agent when you have the power to rip up the contact and walk away because its not being fulfilled by your partner. Outside of that one action, I would agree with you.

There ARE slaves who wish to completely devote themselves in service to another. There are also those that want or need someone to be their moral center, their one to make decisions for them. Not because they are weak or unintelligent. Because some just have a difficult time making decisions or are incapable of being assertive or really want/ need a strong leader. You wouldnt think the crew of a ship are unintelligent because they need a Captain to lead the crew would you? My slave of 14 years is like this. She is incredibly intelligent and works in an engineering firm. The fact is every s type in unique. So you cant assume all the above applies to everyone.