Use of proper grammar and standard English.

[MrPixel]

... I've yet to describe a great story as 'sick'. ...

The colloquial use of "sick" seemed to be short-lived to me. I haven't heard it in a long while; as an adjunct professor I'm frequently around college and sometimes high school kids. It was one of those attention-drawing misuses of vernacular that tended to burn my ears a little.

As to Laurel's trying to hold the line on punctuation, I've not yet had anything kicked back about my liberal use of ellipses, something mentioned in the guidelines. There's just something about "..." which conveys a... well... thoughtful pause.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Sorry, but I suspect you were an American major. A cheap point, I realise, but I note that at least one other contributor has made it. The two languages are, at their extremes, now verging on being mutually unintelligible.

Nope, he's correct.

American is not Standard English usage to describe the various versions of English used in the US (or in Northern America).

• Usage of unqualified American as a language separate from or in place of English, though once sincere, is now typically considered a sign of poor education or used to mock others' supposed ignorance, parochialism, or excessive nationalism.

Source: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/American

Just like you also wouldn't call Nigerian English, Nigerian, or Liberian English, Liberian, or Barbadian English, Barbadian.

It's the reverse of the Imperialism medal. English is not yours anymore (exclusively).

 

[KeithD]

Every single comment I have received from grammar Nazis has related to the grammar clearly within the dialogue, most commonly associated with pronouns. Some people are either ignorant of the quotation marks or want everyone to speak like Henry Higgins.

We had a contributor here for a couple of years who insisted that even the dialogue should be high-brow grammar. She eventually went away unagreed with, though.

 

[KeithD]

Sorry, but I suspect you were an American major. A cheap point, I realise, but I note that at least one other contributor has made it. The two languages are, at their extremes, now verging on being mutually unintelligible.

This is an American English Web site in style.

 

[KeithD]

She may do, but she clearly has no objection to British-style punctuation in authors' stories. (punctuation goes with the quoted text or not depending on logic)

To the extent she can grasp English style, which is more convoluted than American style. (I've professionally edited in both and some English usages still evade me.)

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Also what is English English? Brummy, Estuary English, West Country? Cause if we're talking standards, the standard is not English tout court, but British English. Again showing how English as a name for a language is only a second cousin to English as a geographical indicator.

 

[SteelPoint]

We had a contributor here for a couple of years who insisted that even the dialogue should be high-brow grammar. She eventually went away unagreed with, though...

... which may say more about the site and its inhabitants than it ever did about her.

 

[KeithD]

... which may say more about the site and its inhabitants than it ever did about her.

That they don't all fall for the blind leading the blind preference?

 

[SteelPoint]

This is an American English Web site in style.

More's the pity.

 

[SteelPoint]

It's the reverse of the Imperialism medal. English is not yours anymore (exclusively).

Or "any more", as we standard English-speaking types generally say, thereby mortally offending our PC, only-ever-whisper-where-English-originated brethren...

 

[KeithD]

More's the pity.

You are, of course, free to find a Web site catering to your lost empire wishes, as you like. As has been noted, there isn't one English English. There probably is more regional variation in what is spoken in dialects within the confines of Great Britain than there is in the United States. My observation in living in both is that Americans are more mobile and amalgamated within their country than Brits are--and perhaps a little less provincial and nostalgic for the past in attitude (as you are displaying). That said, I think Americans are more insular--less prone to be touchy and arrogant about such differences, which may be for the best.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

Or "any more", as we standard English-speaking types generally say, thereby mortally offending our PC, only-ever-whisper-where-English-originated brethren...

There is no one standard, bossman. But thanks for proving you're just a Little Englander.

 

[ElectricBlue]

For those using English English, please remember that Laurel uses the American punctuation rules of the punctuation goes inside the quotation marks.

This comment continues a common misunderstanding of this English English grammar rule. If you look into it, it's to do with the quotation of content from one written piece in another written piece, not dialogue.

English English fiction always places punctuation of dialogue within the quotation marks, always has and always will. This kind of comment suggests there is a different dialogue punctuation convention, but there isn't.

 

[SteelPoint]

I'm an American expat living in England. I tell everyone I speak American, they speak English.

Which is absolutely fair enough. The disingenuous points people have been making about the English spoken in other countries are an attempt to claim parity for these "offshoots" - as if in some way they evolved in parallel with that spoken in England rather than, as is obviously the case, branching away from it.

The only "standard English" as such is English English. You can have, I suppose (not "I guess"), "standard US English" or even "standard Nigerian English", if it comes to that - but there is only one original. All others are corruptions of it. Use a different word if you insist but you will not find me saying "A men met these two other min as he stepped out of the drugstore onto the sidewalk" any time soon. Such an "imperialist", I am...

 

[KeithD]

Which is absolutely fair enough. The disingenuous points people have been making about the English spoken in other countries are an attempt to claim parity for these "offshoots" - as if in some way they evolved in parallel with that spoken in England rather than, as is obviously the case, branching away from it.

The only "standard English" as such is English English. You can have, I suppose (not "I guess"), "standard US English" or even "standard Nigerian English", if it comes to that - but there is only one original. All others are corruptions of it. Use a different word if you insist but you will not find me saying "A men met these two other min as he stepped out of the drugstore onto the sidewalk" any time soon. Such an "imperialist", I am...

Everything spoken in England now is a corruption of the "original," whatever that is. Dispute that, if you can. What is "standard" English now in GB. BBC speak? I can get different dialects, some almost like a foreign language, just by traveling ten miles in any direction in England.

Why must Brits be so arrogant about this? If you want Literotica to use British English, buy the Web site.

 

[NotWise]

Why must Brits be so arrogant about this? If you want Literotica to use British English, buy the Web site.

Isn't that something they learned from the French?

 

[KeithD]

Isn't that something they learned from the French?

I think the French are still seething that the on-court interviews at the French Tennis Open were conducted in English (American English, as I recall). All of the pro tennis players seem to speak English well (which should be an embarrassment to most Americans, including me, who has studied three foreign languages with no good result). I wonder how many of them are fluent in French.

 

[butters]

I was an English major, and my writing has reflected that up to this point; FWIW, all my male leads have been college-educated. However, I originally hail from a rural part of the South (eastern Oklahoma, to be exact), where people play fast and loose with standard grammar.

To what extent would this be acceptable for my characters in a few future stories (I have up to three in mind, with the same male lead throughout) to talk this way, or would it likely be flagged?

Thanks.

a writer i love once said "when it's dialogue," and that would include a narrative voice, "go with what sounds true to your character but don't make it unintelligible/too difficult for the reader; anything else should be written using perfect grammar, punctuation, adhering to the best standards of the written English word."

 

[Northstar4695]

Elmore Leonard once said to use patois and dialect sparingly. Sprinkling in a few bits of dialect goes a long way, otherwise it can seem cartoonish or hard to read.

 

[XerXesXu]

The old saying is, 'The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from'.

 

[000zing]

Everything spoken in England now is a corruption of the "original," whatever that is. Dispute that, if you can. What is "standard" English now in GB. BBC speak? I can get different dialects, some almost like a foreign language, just by traveling ten miles in any direction in England.

Why must Brits be so arrogant about this? If you want Literotica to use British English, buy the Web site.

My two-penn'orth.

I imagine the point being made is that no arrogance is involved, merely facts. English came into being in England, irrefutably. "English English" (ugh) therefore has the only claim to authenticity and all of its modern manifestations spoken within England continue to carry that claim, even if those manifestations - dialects etc. - vary widely from each other.

Standard English can only be that which is spoken in England. You don't hear Geordie in America; you don't hear Cockney in Canada. It isn't a matter of arrogance but of simple logic.

That "American" is now the world lingua franca might equally be said to be a manifestation of their arrogance and cultural and economic "imperialism". How often has one heard comments that your average American knows/cares little regarding world geography or the cultures of others? I once passed by an American at a Zurich Airport foreign exchange desk complaining bitterly about why he could not use his dollars like he could "everywhere else in America".

 

[stickygirl]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/8755159a7af86cbd23822b2648e5d950/802f1107b61574de-ec/s540x810/62ad0ab72e3fea4f173bfd7ad523f8fe350a9264.pnj

 

[JGittes]

........ I once passed by an American at a Zurich Airport foreign exchange desk complaining bitterly about why he could not use his dollars like he could "everywhere else in America".

I'm an American and lived for four years in Angola, Africa. The primary currency was $100US bills. Accepted everywhere, with the change given in Kwanza.

I flew back to Los Angeles once for holiday and found the Mcdonald's near LAX wouldn't take $100US bills.

 

[Oldtalesoldman]

There is a distinct difference between spoken language, and written language. Nuances of speech are sometimes very difficult to convey, and have so very much meaning to the context of what is being attempted to be written. There are very few ways to set a facial expression, without describing it in some detail. Also, for me, writing something I know to be spoken repeatedly, but does not match grammatical writing rules, can be very difficult.

These things really get dicey when a story is rejected, because there is never a complete explanation, so the writer is left to try to figure out why. Myself, it is easier to delete it, than completely rewrite it. Using proper quotation marks id mostly a joke here anyway, as I have read stories that do not have them, and yet imply spoken sentences, or have a beginning quote, but completely omit the closing one. Just make things more difficult to understand the standard as it seems different for everyone.

 

[Voboy]

My goodness! So much ego!

I love English because it's not standard. A language that is alive, that changes, that grows? That's an interesting language, no matter where it comes from. English is like that. It gleefully accepts droves of new usages, recycles old ones, and plays with both. It is ever-changing and ever-fascinating.

Unlike French, where those dour assholes in Paris keep trying to maintain its "purity." Fuck that shit.

I read a piece in (I think?) BBC about how, shockingly, it turns out the "purest" form of proper 18th-century French is actually the dialect spoken in Quebec. The "real" Francophones in "real" France were shocked at that research, mostly because they consider Quebec French to be rustic. What they fail to realize is what we Anglophones understand in our bones: that language is GOING TO change, whether we like it or not.

So by all means, those of you who insist on some perceived "perfect English," keep your fingers in the dikes. See how that works out for you.