Someone once put it as “breaking up with extra steps” and it’s shocking how often that describes complex romantic situations especially when one person has “reasons” for breaking the pact.
The gender's obviously irrelevant, but I think there is an interesting conversation around what counts as cheating and where that line is. If I am not satisfied by my girlfriend and I seek out an escort just to talk to her with no sex, would that be cheating? What if I had a session with a fetish wrestler?
What caused the deceit? You are quick to judge others for their actions. Will you also judge the men the wives are pushed away from? Hypocrisy is not a one way street.
You gave me an idea.
I mean, both parties can be wrong.
Basically, yes, it is why many of the loving wives stories seem like cardboard cutout characters, bc there is no complexity.
Precisley. Loving Wives is 1950s TV Westerns for divorced guys. The honorable and injured men always have white hats and the perfidious and injuring women black. Life was simple then…
It can get very complex. I have some real world examples that can illustrate that. The British composer Ralf Vaughn Williams was married to a woman for a variety of reasons couldn't have sex, and she tacitly was okay with him having sex with another woman. The conductor Daniel Berenboim was married to the cellist Jacqueline Du Pre, who had MS and became fully disabled pretty quickly (the relationship had already been rocky, both she and he had affairs I believe), and Berenboim had met another woman while taking care of Du Pre. There are always margins he, like someone who is married to someone with mental or emotional issues where the spouse cannot be there for them. Should the spouse, who is trying to take care of the other person and is staying by their side, totally give up any chance at a normal relationship? Obviously in the examples I gave the wife was physically unable to do things wives do for a husband. If a wife is mentally ill, it isn't her fault of course, but does that mean the husband is condemned to live a life without the things a companion normaly gives you?
Yeah, there is that, and while some of the stories like that are fun, many of them are empty. There are wives like you see in the story, but honestly the way the wives are written , they come off like they are a horndog guy, act like it.
That isn't really cheating at that point, to be fair. Both parties are okay with it, so there's no deceit involved.
Two things pop into my head, the first of them a question: why does the husband need sex or intimacy? Plenty of people go their whole lives without it. Second thing that pops into my head: it would suck to be condemned to a life without emotional closeness. That would be pretty bad. I would be pretty reluctant to say the spouse should just be condemned to that life. So I'm ping-ponging between those two sides.
It's also fair for me to point out here that cheating, in my eyes, doesn't have to define a person. Some wrongs are lesser than other wrongs, and people don't get defined by their wrongs.
My understanding is that Franklin was the emissary. He was a fine writer and harvester of wisdom. A key to the Constitution is that its strength is that it is cobbled together out of competing concepts like democracy and strong authority. I am confident he and his sources were essential in that process. Squanto had been to Europe and was a useful go-between. But the 'technology' of living in 'New England' in the winter came from the Wampanoag. This 'argument' started with the common trope that Europeans were 'god's gift to the world'. (Often thought of literally.) It is a good opportunity to take a good look at human 'progress' in the late thousand years and wisely examine what we have created.
Marriages are complex and people often don't think through how what they are bringing to the table fits smoothly with that of another person. If a woman has the whatever to leave her husband one has to ask why. Few people are puzzled if a man steps out on a woman or leaves his wife. People will certainly growl if he has dependent kids. By and large a woman will have a lot more reasons than just 'a pretty face.'
Maybe useful here to ask what Litters think is cheating. Is it simply sex outside the marriage bond? Is it 'falling in love' even if there is no consummation? A woman might have a very close relationship with a gay man; easy to laugh and talk with. A marriage could be perfunctory and a work relationship very complete and fulfilling. A older man might treat his spouse like furniture and spend lots of time with a young protegé, though no sex ever happens. I'm sure you have your own story. The men angry at Loving Wives stories seem to come from the position that a wife belongs to her husband and that someone is stealing her, or she is giving her 'riches' to someone who didn't pay for them.
This is a good place to remember that what a man and a woman mean by 'sex' can be very different. People so often fail to talk about what they want and need in the sack. And the Americas have stupid customs that make it so easy to shame a partner if they want more or less sex. And Americans, despite sacks of porno, at teaching young men how to make love. And we are finally getting to a place where women can talk about what they really like, and don't like to do.Of course it bothers me. They seek what their husbands have stopped. Is it wrong to want to feel loved, appreciated, and respected?
Does it bother you that these wives get nothing at home, and are taken for granted?
It is not deceit, it is discovery. A re evaluation of where they are vs where they wish to go.
There are so many reasons to seek if those reasons are no longer a part of her life at home.
You can look at as deceit. It is not her fault she is at that point in her life. Yes they do go ahead and quit their marriage.
I know this as a fact.
Have a wonderful day.
Its deceit thats the biggest issue to me. Another is a wife talking about her problems to people outside the marriage instead of her husband, that she is having sex with. THEN saying it not her fault. Just insane.
Very true. Its all complicated. But not a fan of encouraging blowing up a relationship. Been there, done that. Its painful to hear advocates of cheating. Break up or work it out.
The cause is immaterial to the argument. Break up or work it out. It is not give one license to become deceiving without being just as bad or worse than the issue in the relationship.
Is the cause always immaterial? I'm not so sure about that.
How do you know what happens in the home they share with their husbands? Mental abuse is as dangerous as physical. I am not a advocate of stepping out, just for fun, in a committed relationship, however, if there is cause committed by her SO, why is it wrong to seek her mental, physical, needs and protection?
If you have mentioned that your rules apply to husbands equally, I apologize. But IRL it may be hard to take a problem to the person who is at least part of the problem.
I think the idea here is getting so emotionally close to a person that you divulge things you normally would not talk about with an outsider, even a friend. Obviously, that rule doesn't apply if let's say the wife or husband is in therapy. Likewise people do talk to friends about what is going on with their lives and do talk to friends, especially women, when things aren't going well in their relationship or marriage. If a husband is abusing the wife, that is not something that should remain in the marriage, confiding in a friend in that case is fine because to be blunt, the husband has already breached the relationship and keeping quiet about abuse is helping him get away with it. But on the other hand, if you are feeling unloved, if you are feeling ignored or feel sexually unsatisfied, and you are telling this to an outsider without at least trying to talk to your spouse about it, that is a breach (it isn't cheating). If your husband is having troubles with ED, is it okay to go saying that to all your friends? I would say no because that is quite frankly sharing something you know he wouldn't be happy about others knowing, that is very private.
