Women...ugh

[intothewoods]

Yes, but why does it matter? I mean if you're a bit over dressed or a bit under dressed who's really going to care? What matters is that you're comfortable and happy, right?

I like to be dressed appropriately, although I do think this can be figured out on your own.

Drinks/coffee/movie/dinner never a problem. Easy. It's the weekend away and such that always brings out the prolonged negotiations. It's weird.

I see - I can't recall the last time I did a weekend with girlfriends. We tend to do family trips. Oh, I did go away with my kid and a mom friend and her kids. That was easy. She said leave the planning to me, and I did. I should travel with her more often...

 

[the captians wench]

But they wouldn't be comfortable if they felt they stand out like a sore thumb. I personally don't care if i stand out, but most women do, and when they feel that they stand out it makes them VERY VERY uncomfortable.

It's also a good way of finding out if something is gonna be dressy or casual. A friend invites you to a party. You don't want to ask if it's dressy because then they might think you want it to be dressy so you ask, later, 'what are you wearing?'. If they say jeans and tshirt you know it's casual if they say skirt and a blouse you know it's dressier. Plus then you know what to expect, and what's expected of you. Should you offer to bring food or not? Should you plan on helping with the clean up? Etc.

I think this is why I don't have many female friends, and when I do I don't keep them long. Women speak with out saying what they mean. Everything has a double meaning and they don't come out and just say what they mean. It's very frusterating. If I want to know what the dress is for a party, that's what I'm going to ask. And I usually ask if I should bring anything. One I like to show off my talents that way (attention whore) and two I was just raised that you don't go to a party empty handed, a bottle of wine or something at the very least.

If I ask what you're going to wear, it's because I don't want to coordenate with you. If you're wearing a white top and black skirt, I don't want to be in the same type of thing. Of course this is because I like to stand out. But that's usually not an issue. I have a very unique style.

 

[Keroin]

But they wouldn't be comfortable if they felt they stand out like a sore thumb. I personally don't care if i stand out, but most women do, and when they feel that they stand out it makes them VERY VERY uncomfortable.

It's also a good way of finding out if something is gonna be dressy or casual. A friend invites you to a party. You don't want to ask if it's dressy because then they might think you want it to be dressy so you ask, later, 'what are you wearing?'. If they say jeans and tshirt you know it's casual if they say skirt and a blouse you know it's dressier. Plus then you know what to expect, and what's expected of you. Should you offer to bring food or not? Should you plan on helping with the clean up? Etc.

I like to be dressed appropriately, although I do think this can be figured out on your own.

I think ITW makes my point here. I can't recall the last time I was invited to an event or planned to go to an event where I didn't know what the dress code was. If it's my friends having a party, I know them all well enough to know it will be casual and if it isn't I know they will tell everyone it isn't. If I wasn't sure, I would ask, "What is the dress code?" and not "What are you wearing?" - just my brand of logic, I guess.

Plus, I have had women ask this question of me when the dress code for the event is blatantly obvious.

It's not a big deal and doesn't bother me, just curious behaviour from my POV.

I think this is why I don't have many female friends, and when I do I don't keep them long. Women speak with out saying what they mean. Everything has a double meaning and they don't come out and just say what they mean. It's very frusterating. If I want to know what the dress is for a party, that's what I'm going to ask. And I usually ask if I should bring anything. One I like to show off my talents that way (attention whore) and two I was just raised that you don't go to a party empty handed, a bottle of wine or something at the very least.

If I ask what you're going to wear, it's because I don't want to coordenate with you. If you're wearing a white top and black skirt, I don't want to be in the same type of thing. Of course this is because I like to stand out. But that's usually not an issue. I have a very unique style.

Interesting. I guess my apparel is just such a low priority for me that this sort of thing would never cross my mind. Because of what you do, Wenchie (making costumes and such), I can see why this would be important to you.

Personally, I don't care if I stick out or don't stick out or if I'm dressed the same way as someone else or not, nor do I care how anyone else is dressed. I care about what they say and do, and if they're wearing a chicken suit but they're witty and make good conversation, oh well, rock on you crazy chicken! Fashion is pretty much the last thing on my mind unless it's Halloween and I'm going to a costume party.

But it is interesting that I've had three very different replies to that question.

 

[sb2009]

I become very uncomfortable if I'm overdressed for something. It was pounded into my soul during childhood that is was much better to be plain and simply dressed than overdressed. So I ask becuase if it's going to be really dressy, then I can relax and not be worried about it. But I worry, that's me. My husband couldn't care less.

 

[YourCaptor]

Just throwing it out there. Ladys, if it looks good there is no such thing as overdressed.

 

[Keroin]

Hm, the discomfort thing, I'm just not understanding. I have never come home from an event and commented on how over or under dressed anyone was. Ever. Doesn't mean a thing to me. Heck, I don't think I even notice. I couldn't tell you what anyone was wearing at the last function I went to.

Maybe that's just me.

Do other people pay much attention to what people are wearing? Would it be a big deal to you if you went to a party and someone was dressed more formally or casually than everyone else? Would you think less of that person?

I still don't get it.

 

[ImOnIt]

I still don't get it.

Yeah, I totally don't give a fuck. I had a vague idea at one point that the clothes maketh the man... but i spent the money on something else (black water rafting yeahh).

Just the other night, i saw an awkward looking fellow in some classy clothes and thought my money well spent. (he looked like he'd never been rafting, ha hah!)

I look much BETTER (in my own opinion) when I don't dress up. It's sort of like... SHOULD i be caring? The jury is out on that, but for now I'll spend my money elsewhere.

 

[subish2009]

I become very uncomfortable if I'm overdressed for something. It was pounded into my soul during childhood that is was much better to be plain and simply dressed than overdressed. So I ask becuase if it's going to be really dressy, then I can relax and not be worried about it. But I worry, that's me. My husband couldn't care less.

That's very interesting because I tend to operate on the opposite rule...I'd ALWAYS prefer to be overdressed than underdressed. And I wasn't raised that way, that's just how I'm most comfortable. I definitely subscribe to the idea that you'll look best in what you're most comfortable in, but for me, I'm most comfortable if I feel like I look gooooood, which sometimes means looking just a smidge more done than the others I'm with. That's probably an instinct akin to what Wenchie said about wanting to stand out...

Just throwing it out there. Ladys, if it looks good there is no such thing as overdressed.

Yes. That's what I'm talkin' about!

Hm, the discomfort thing, I'm just not understanding. I have never come home from an event and commented on how over or under dressed anyone was. Ever. Doesn't mean a thing to me. Heck, I don't think I even notice. I couldn't tell you what anyone was wearing at the last function I went to.

Maybe that's just me.

Do other people pay much attention to what people are wearing? Would it be a big deal to you if you went to a party and someone was dressed more formally or casually than everyone else? Would you think less of that person?

I still don't get it.

It sounds to me like this is just a difference between women who are interested in fashion and those who aren't. I'm a clotheshorse. I can be vain. I have self-esteem issues that are kept in check by feeling like I'm taking care of myself and a big part of that is my appearance. I need to feel like I look sexy (whether subtly or overtly) pretty much all the time. It affects my mood, my confidence, my outlook on the world, my sense of self-worth. I think you're just plain old not built this way Keroin. It's probably a good thing!

 

[ownedsubgal]

It sounds to me like this is just a difference between women who are interested in fashion and those who aren't. I'm a clotheshorse. I can be vain. I have self-esteem issues that are kept in check by feeling like I'm taking care of myself and a big part of that is my appearance. I need to feel like I look sexy (whether subtly or overtly) pretty much all the time. It affects my mood, my confidence, my outlook on the world, my sense of self-worth. I think you're just plain old not built this way Keroin. It's probably a good thing!

my interest in fashion is minute, but i care deeply about being appropriately dressed for an outing/event. it has nothing to do with wanting to appear attractive or fashionable, but more an intense desire i've always had not to stick out.

Keroin wonders where such worries may come from, well in my case it stems from a very low self-esteem which was in great part produced by a childhood and teen years of merciless teasing, bullying, ostracization. i went through many years with zero friends and no social life of any kind. i was always pointed out as a loser, a freak, ugly, worthless, etc...so my goal in life became blending in to the point of invisibility. i don't want to be noticed, i don't want to be seen, sized up and rejected.

so definitely, when going out i will change clothes half a dozen times easily. i obsess over dress codes and what others will be wearing. not because i judge anyone else, but because i do not want to be judged.



but with all that said, as an adult i have had no female friends and have an extremely difficult time getting along with and relating to other women.

 

[sb2009]

yeah, what OSG said. And also several years in a very catty environment (military officer wives) where any weakness - and not dressing to everyone's standard is seen as a weakness - was ferretted out and picked apart by your peers. Once I ended that marriage I was amazed that there were women who were wives of your spouses co-workers who did NOT give a flying fuck what you wore/who you hung out with/what you looked liked....they actually had lives that they lived LOL


My overdressed thing is from the number one lesson I learned growing up: Do Not Stick Out, Ever. Blend In. It Will Keep You Out Trouble.

 

[BiBunny]

my interest in fashion is minute, but i care deeply about being appropriately dressed for an outing/event. it has nothing to do with wanting to appear attractive or fashionable, but more an intense desire i've always had not to stick out.

Yep.

And here's another vote for "better overdressed than underdressed." It's partly a Southern thing and partly a sorority girl thing for me, I guess.

 

[KoPilot]

My god, I hate females. All of my girl friends are nerdy, sometimes masculine types, and that certainly helps with them not giving two shits about whether their earrings match their purse. I am fortunately the "leader" of my group of friends here at school, so they all usually do what I say (but it's very tiring, especially when I get blamed for getting on the wrong subway or something), but back home my much larger circle of friends actually set up a private forum for them all to keep track of each other with. It's very, very useful in organizing events and planning things, I must say.

Maybe you could suggest something like that for future get-togethers?

 

[Keroin]

My god, I hate females. All of my girl friends are nerdy, sometimes masculine types, and that certainly helps with them not giving two shits about whether their earrings match their purse. I am fortunately the "leader" of my group of friends here at school, so they all usually do what I say (but it's very tiring, especially when I get blamed for getting on the wrong subway or something), but back home my much larger circle of friends actually set up a private forum for them all to keep track of each other with. It's very, very useful in organizing events and planning things, I must say.

Maybe you could suggest something like that for future get-togethers?

First of all - contrary to the tone of this thread title - I don't hate females, not even remotely, and I find the part in bold offensive. I love women. I am one. Some typically-female behaviour I find confusing and frustrating but I can say the same about typically male behaviour as well. I do not dislike either sex. And I really don't want to encourage woman-bashing here, I think women do too much of that as it is.

There, said that and feel better.

Your suggestion is duly noted, thank you. The problem is not a lack of organization. We already have a private forum for planning...email. It's simply a matter of getting people to come to a consensus within a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Keroin]

I'm getting the impression that the phenomenon of "what are you wearing" is based in low self esteem and insecurity. (Not completely but mostly). This makes me sad for my sex.

Why do so many women have such problems with self esteem?

I mean, I've been there, I know how it feels but I also grew and learned and moved past it. Still, I felt it as a young girl and I'm sure lots of other women do too, and lots never grow past it. So why is it so much more common with women than men? And are we still passing it on to the next generations? Is there any way to stop the cycle?

I'd be curious to see how many men here identify with having low self esteem vs women. Interesting.


Also, I'd rather be under dressed - I like comfort! Selfish bitch that I am

 

[BiBunny]

I'm getting the impression that the phenomenon of "what are you wearing" is based in low self esteem and insecurity. (Not completely but mostly). This makes me sad for my sex.

I don't give a shit what I wear to Wal-Mart. I do care about what I wore to, say, my cousin's wedding the other week. It's a sense of "time and place."

Why do so many women have such problems with self esteem?

I don't know, but I think "You suck for worrying about it" is just as bad to tell someone as "You suck for not worrying about it."

I mean, I've been there, I know how it feels but I also grew and learned and moved past it. Still, I felt it as a young girl and I'm sure lots of other women do too, and lots never grow past it. So why is it so much more common with women than men? And are we still passing it on to the next generations? Is there any way to stop the cycle?

K, I like you. A lot. So please don't take this the wrong way. Please.

I get the sense sometimes that you feel that because you, personally, were able to move past something that everyone on the face of the planet should follow your example. Which is well and good, I suppose, but the way that comes across sometimes is that everyone who doesn't do things the way you do is somehow lesser than. And if you're really dealing with a large number of people who have low self-esteem, then that's not the best way to come across if you're hoping to change hearts and minds.

I'd be curious to see how many men here identify with having low self esteem vs women. Interesting.

With the way society tries to emasculate men, particularly younger men, I don't think the figures would be nearly as skewed toward females as some folks might think.

Also, I'd rather be under dressed - I like comfort! Selfish bitch that I am

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[intothewoods]

Well, I do have friends who ask "what are you wearing" or "what should I wear" without spending hours on their outfits.

I went through a sexy phase, but for the most part, I prefer to keep it simple and sophisticated. So I would rather not be overdressed, and would prefer to be understated.

These days, I just care less and less about fashion. I don't run around in mom jeans or anything, but I'm not really into anything complicated or trendy, or overtly sexy. Give me quality basics in black or denim and I'm good.

I have to say, I have a bit of a pet peeve about women my age who have everything but the kitchen sink hanging out when they get dressed to go out, because they just can't bare to not have male attention. It gets a little old to me.

 

[subish2009]

I'm getting the impression that the phenomenon of "what are you wearing" is based in low self esteem and insecurity. (Not completely but mostly). This makes me sad for my sex.

Why do so many women have such problems with self esteem?

I mean, I've been there, I know how it feels but I also grew and learned and moved past it. Still, I felt it as a young girl and I'm sure lots of other women do too, and lots never grow past it. So why is it so much more common with women than men? And are we still passing it on to the next generations? Is there any way to stop the cycle?

I'd be curious to see how many men here identify with having low self esteem vs women. Interesting.


Also, I'd rather be under dressed - I like comfort! Selfish bitch that I am

I don't personally read this as you feeling everyone should just get over it. Women do tend to have lower self-esteem about their looks. Women are generally the pursued in relationships, not the pursuers. Therefore, it's incumbent upon us to attract the males (for heteros, obviously) with our looks. In addition to a wealth of other traits, yes, but first impressions are often based on looks, and men do respond to that particular train pretty powerfully.

I think men are just as insecure, but about completely different things. Being providers. Protectors. Big. Strong. Well-endowed.

These are basic gender issues well-ingrained in our genetic code as humans, as well as our social mores in Western civilization (of which most on this board are members). Generalizations, sure, but there's a good reason for that.

All that being said, I am sincerely glad that you don't suffer from such insecurities. Truly.

Well, I do have friends who ask "what are you wearing" or "what should I wear" without spending hours on their outfits.

I went through a sexy phase, but for the most part, I prefer to keep it simple and sophisticated. So I would rather not be overdressed, and would prefer to be understated.

These days, I just care less and less about fashion. I don't run around in mom jeans or anything, but I'm not really into anything complicated or trendy, or overtly sexy. Give me quality basics in black or denim and I'm good.

I have to say, I have a bit of a pet peeve about women my age who have everything but the kitchen sink hanging out when they get dressed to go out, because they just can't bare to not have male attention. It gets a little old to me.

Ah, but it doesn't have to be an either/or. Simple and sophisticated with classic pieces is my favorite brand of sexy.

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't personally read this as you feeling everyone should just get over it. Women do tend to have lower self-esteem about their looks. Women are generally the pursued in relationships, not the pursuers. Therefore, it's incumbent upon us to attract the males (for heteros, obviously) with our looks. In addition to a wealth of other traits, yes, but first impressions are often based on looks, and men do respond to that particular train pretty powerfully.

I think men are just as insecure, but about completely different things. Being providers. Protectors. Big. Strong. Well-endowed.

These are basic gender issues well-ingrained in our genetic code as humans, as well as our social mores in Western civilization (of which most on this board are members). Generalizations, sure, but there's a good reason for that.

All that being said, I am sincerely glad that you don't suffer from such insecurities. Truly.



Ah, but it doesn't have to be an either/or. Simple and sophisticated with classic pieces is my favorite brand of sexy.

Reminds me of a comedy bit by Godfrey Cambridge, an African-American comedian from the late 60's. His wife once got advice on what to wear to a cocktail party and Godfrey was bug-eyed when she came downstairs to leave. She was naked with a string of pearls around her neck. The advice she'd been given: "Wear basic black and pearls."

 

[CutieMouse]

I'm getting the impression that the phenomenon of "what are you wearing" is based in low self esteem and insecurity. (Not completely but mostly). This makes me sad for my sex.

Why do so many women have such problems with self esteem?

I mean, I've been there, I know how it feels but I also grew and learned and moved past it. Still, I felt it as a young girl and I'm sure lots of other women do too, and lots never grow past it. So why is it so much more common with women than men? And are we still passing it on to the next generations? Is there any way to stop the cycle?

I'd be curious to see how many men here identify with having low self esteem vs women. Interesting.

Also, I'd rather be under dressed - I like comfort! Selfish bitch that I am

Mmmm... I more like to be dressed appropriately out of consideration for my hosts or those around me. Of course I'm also the one already mentally organizing my wardrobe/lingerie/sleepwear for a mini-vacation next month. I'll We'll be staying overnight with his very oldest and dearest friends. Very casual, but yeah... and the funniest thing is I'm more concerned about bringing something appropriate to sleep in than anything else. LOL

 

[Keroin]

I don't know, but I think "You suck for worrying about it" is just as bad to tell someone as "You suck for not worrying about it."

I think you're reading your own interpretation into this BB. I don't think anybody sucks for worrying about it. I'm not sure where that comes from?

I'm asking "Why worry about it?" that's all. I think that's a valid question.

K, I like you. A lot. So please don't take this the wrong way. Please.

I get the sense sometimes that you feel that because you, personally, were able to move past something that everyone on the face of the planet should follow your example. Which is well and good, I suppose, but the way that comes across sometimes is that everyone who doesn't do things the way you do is somehow lesser than. And if you're really dealing with a large number of people who have low self-esteem, then that's not the best way to come across if you're hoping to change hearts and minds.

Don't worry, BB, we're adults having a discussion so I won't take anything the wrong way. If I don't understand something, I'll ask for clarification.

No, I don't think people who don't do things the way I do are "lesser than" and I'm sorry if it comes across that way. However, having said that, in my experience, a life lived in a state of low self esteem and constant worry about what others think is not nearly as pleasant as a life lived without those things. Because I think so many women are beautiful, talented, intelligent, worthy human beings, I would wish for them to be able to move past low self esteem, bad self image, etc. If they can't, they can't. But, much as I wish humans could all be more peaceful and kinder to the planet - admittedly a pipe dream - I can't not wish for a better, happier life for my fellow women.

No, I'm probably not the best self esteem booster on the planet. I'm critical, blunt and not entirely empathetic. But if I could give every woman on this planet better self esteem tomorrow...yeah, I'd do it. I guess all I can do is prompt discussion. Who knows, maybe someone will read this thread and question their own behaviour? Maybe not. I've come up against some unpleasant mirrors in my life. They didn't make me feel great at the time but they did help in the long run.

It would be a boring world if everyone was like me, though. And no, I don't think any less of women who lack self esteem. I love you all and wish you the best in everything.


I still don't get the shoe thing, though.

 

[sb2009]

the issue of self-esteem is layered and even more layered, but a big factor is that women are valued based on looks, and sometimes that's all they are valued for. Even talented women can be valued less because they don't have conventional good looks.

Me, personally, I don't know all the reasons my self-esteem is low. Therapy is helping. I have made a big step in that my girls didn't inherit my self-esteem - they are proud and confident and that gives me a bit of a boost to *my* self-esteem, that I am able to raise these two knowing they kick ass and take names LOL

 

[Keroin]

I don't personally read this as you feeling everyone should just get over it. Women do tend to have lower self-esteem about their looks. Women are generally the pursued in relationships, not the pursuers. Therefore, it's incumbent upon us to attract the males (for heteros, obviously) with our looks. In addition to a wealth of other traits, yes, but first impressions are often based on looks, and men do respond to that particular train pretty powerfully.

I think men are just as insecure, but about completely different things. Being providers. Protectors. Big. Strong. Well-endowed.

These are basic gender issues well-ingrained in our genetic code as humans, as well as our social mores in Western civilization (of which most on this board are members). Generalizations, sure, but there's a good reason for that.

All that being said, I am sincerely glad that you don't suffer from such insecurities. Truly.

Well I'm glad I'm not coming across as judgmental to everyone! LOL. No, I really am just honestly curious. I can't be the only one who notices that women appear to struggle more with self esteem problems, can I? I just wonder where it all comes from and what we can do to stop it? I remember clearly who miserable I was for so many years, thinking I was never, ever good enough and it kills me to think of other young girls going through the same pain. And yet, I know they do, I know lots of young girls do.

My thinking is it comes from a variety of sources but primarily from mothers and media.

Well, I do have friends who ask "what are you wearing" or "what should I wear" without spending hours on their outfits.

I went through a sexy phase, but for the most part, I prefer to keep it simple and sophisticated. So I would rather not be overdressed, and would prefer to be understated.

These days, I just care less and less about fashion. I don't run around in mom jeans or anything, but I'm not really into anything complicated or trendy, or overtly sexy. Give me quality basics in black or denim and I'm good.

I have to say, I have a bit of a pet peeve about women my age who have everything but the kitchen sink hanging out when they get dressed to go out, because they just can't bare to not have male attention. It gets a little old to me.

Yep, the bit in bold. I'm worried that in twenty more years I will just wear my pajamas everywhere, lol.

Seriously, I wonder now where I once had all the time and energy to worry about my clothing.

Reminds me of a comedy bit by Godfrey Cambridge, an African-American comedian from the late 60's. His wife once got advice on what to wear to a cocktail party and Godfrey was bug-eyed when she came downstairs to leave. She was naked with a string of pearls around her neck. The advice she'd been given: "Wear basic black and pearls."

Ba dum bump

Mmmm... I more like to be dressed appropriately out of consideration for my hosts or those around me. Of course I'm also the one already mentally organizing my wardrobe/lingerie/sleepwear for a mini-vacation next month. I'll We'll be staying overnight with his very oldest and dearest friends. Very casual, but yeah... and the funniest thing is I'm more concerned about bringing something appropriate to sleep in than anything else. LOL

Interesting answer, CM.

the issue of self-esteem is layered and even more layered, but a big factor is that women are valued based on looks, and sometimes that's all they are valued for. Even talented women can be valued less because they don't have conventional good looks.

Me, personally, I don't know all the reasons my self-esteem is low. Therapy is helping. I have made a big step in that my girls didn't inherit my self-esteem - they are proud and confident and that gives me a bit of a boost to *my* self-esteem, that I am able to raise these two knowing they kick ass and take names LOL

Agreed, except I think that we (women) only help to feed the machine. You know what I mean?

I have a friend who is a highly paid professional and she made a decision about ten years ago to change her appearance because she was so tired of stressing about it. She stopped dying her hair (which is a blend of grey and black) and let it grow out naturally long instead of getting it styled, she stopped wearing make up, completely, and she ditched her high-priced office duds for some lower priced clothes. She said she was really, really worried about how people would react but she said nothing changed, nothing at all. She continues to do her job and she no longer has to deal with the pressure to look "perfect". She's much happier and content and she is, (at least to me), every bit as beautiful.

I think we can change the status quo if we want to. I do believe that.

 

[CutieMouse]

Interesting answer, CM.

I suppose so... My place of business is in a part of town where it's not terribly uncommon for a woman to carry a $10k purse, etc. I don't dress above and beyond my norm for work (because I do have excellent if quirky taste, if I do say so myself LOL), but I *do* pay very close attention to what I wear so as to not be "over dressed" for those clients who come in from the 'burbs, nor "under dressed" for those who consider a Rolex to be a simple little watch. Swinging too far in either direction could cause my clients to question the suitability of their own dress, which would be rude of me.

Agreed, except I think that we (women) only help to feed the machine. You know what I mean?

I think we can change the status quo if we want to. I do believe that.

Yep. *Technically* I work in the fashion industry; however, I am of the opinion that I work in the self-esteem industry. Women are masters of picking themselves to death and magnifying every.freaking.flaw. Some days I wonder if it's simply genetic.

 

[sb2009]

sometimes I think we can change it, but then other days when someone says "hey, you don't look well" because my eyeliner is smudged...I think it will be a losing battle.

 

[Keroin]

I suppose so... My place of business is in a part of town where it's not terribly uncommon for a woman to carry a $10k purse, etc. I don't dress above and beyond my norm for work (because I do have excellent if quirky taste, if I do say so myself LOL), but I *do* pay very close attention to what I wear so as to not be "over dressed" for those clients who come in from the 'burbs, nor "under dressed" for those who consider a Rolex to be a simple little watch. Swinging too far in either direction could cause my clients to question the suitability of their own dress, which would be rude of me.

See, and dressing a certain way for work or business is a slightly different matter. Your job, to a large extent, will dictate what you wear. For you, obviously, how you present yourself is an important component to sales.

Yep. *Technically* I work in the fashion industry; however, I am of the opinion that I work in the self-esteem industry. Women are masters of picking themselves to death and magnifying every.freaking.flaw. Some days I wonder if it's simply genetic.

You can be a powerful force for good, CM!

Women are very hard on themselves, I notice that all the time. I know, for me, it came mostly from my mom - not nature but definitely nurture.

sometimes I think we can change it, but then other days when someone says "hey, you don't look well" because my eyeliner is smudged...I think it will be a losing battle.

Well, there was a time when women didn't dare go out of the house without girdles on, when bikinis were scandalous, when it was unseemly to sweat, and we've changed that. It takes a few brave/stupid souls to stand up and question things, to say, you know what this girdle is uncomfortable, that bikini isn't, and I'll sweat if I fucking want to!

I don't care if women want to wear make up and have fancy hair do's and fuss with their clothes but I'd like a world where it's indeed a choice and not an expectation.