“I can write authentic female characters” he said. Hilarity ensues.

[NovusAnimus]

Makeup guides? Is describing makeup going to improve your characters?

A telling line can transform an entire chapter from flat and disingenuous, to believable and impactful.

 

[yukonnights]

Makeup guides? Is describing makeup going to improve your characters?

It's harder than one would think. If there's a scene where it's happening, getting the details wrong will probably jump out to the female reader. It just sorta outs you as a male writer getting a 'woman thing' wrong. It's these faux-pas things that lends to some little bit of unbelievability. Sorry, but looks like some make-up lessons might be in your future

 

[NotWise]

It's harder than one would think. If there's a scene where it's happening, getting the details wrong will probably jump out to the female reader. It just sorta outs you as a male writer getting a 'woman thing' wrong. It's these faux-pas things that lends to some little bit of unbelievability. Sorry, but looks like some make-up lessons might be in your future

Well, I was raised by a woman and have two sisters. I married a woman and we have three daughters. I've had some makeup lessons. I've given some makeup lessons (in the form of 'That's too much. Go back and take it off. I don't care if we're late to school.')

Women are all over the map when it comes to makeup. Some never wear any. Some are never seen without it. Some wear very little. Some wear a lot. They all have reasons for what they do.

It's your choice, but to me, getting to her reasons is probably more characterizing than getting to the techniques.

My most-viewed story starts with a woman looking at herself in a mirror. Her thoughts are on the changes she's been through and why. She not wasting time with the details, which she probably learned twenty years earlier and has adjusted as she aged. There isn't much to think about.

When Kate's makeup was done she laid her lipstick on the vanity, folded her hands in her lap and bent forward to study herself in the mirror. There were so many changes. More than a year had passed since Toby went to college and left her nest empty. The house and the furniture were all the same, but the person in the mirror wasn't. Without her son around Kate was more introspective and slower to make friends, but she also had a counseling business of her own now as well as surgically restored boobs, a thinner body and longer hair.

"I did it for me." was what Kate said when Mary wondered why she changed her look. Certainly that was true, but she wasn't telling her younger sister the whole truth. She also did it for Toby. While Toby was a boy it was easy for her to be his ideal woman. Now that he was grown it was a struggle. Kate knew she would ultimately lose that battle, but the truth wouldn't stop her from trying.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Men like to write about "Panties"...seems most women think they are "Underwear" .

This very thing just popped up as I was writing the next chapter of Mary and Alvin, which moves between the POV of the two title characters. I wrote "underpants", then remembered it was Alvin's POV and changed it to "panties".

 

[JasonClearwater]

This very thing just popped up as I was writing the next chapter of Mary and Alvin, which moves between the POV of the two title characters. I wrote "underpants", then remembered it was Alvin's POV and changed it to "panties".

I can't stand the word 'panties'. I would naturally refer to them as underpants, underwear or pants. Or by the thing what they're made of.

But years of reading stories on Lit has given me the urge to write 'panties' when it comes to describing them, and every time it makes me die a little inside.

 

[NotWise]

I can't stand the word 'panties'. I would naturally refer to them as underpants, underwear or pants. Or by the thing what they're made of.

But years of reading stories on Lit has given me the urge to write 'panties' when it comes to describing them, and every time it makes me die a little inside.

Underwear (or undies) is just a generic term. Panties is also pretty generic. It came into use around 1908 (before modern briefs even existed) and it's just the diminutive of pants.

For modern underwear you can also say brief or thong, etc. I'm writing a story with flapper ghosts, and they need to wear drawers, knickers, or bloomers. There are also step-ins, cami-bloomers and cami-knickers. From what I've read they didn't call anything "panties" at that time, though the word was around.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But years of reading stories on Lit has given me the urge to write 'panties' when it comes to describing them, and every time it makes me die a little inside.

That's not what the photographs suggested... oh wait, you're talking about 'writing' panties.

Carry on.

 

[JasonClearwater]

That's not what the photographs suggested... oh wait, you're talking about 'writing' panties.

Carry on.

Hahaha, you cock.

 

[rutger5]

Men like to write about "Panties"...seems most women think they are "Underwear"

Can't say what most women think but my wife (among others) refers to them as panties, not that means they can't also be referred to as underwear in a generic sense.

To the original question I think a writer should try to write authentic characters no matter the gender involved. In many ways people will react the same no matter their genitalia. When a character stubs their toe or enjoys a delicious meal it doesn't matter if they have double D's or are packing a ten inch dick.

Its when trying to write about what the character experiences sexually in the first person that many get it so wrong. Most women, even those that are buxom and flaunt it, will never be as breast obsessed as men are and that is reflected in the writing but in a lot of examples one sees it isn't good writing to begin with. To my mind many women trying to write men in the first person get it wrong also but if one just narrates it as a series of actions in sequence it will seem less jarring. I did this, she did that, we did some more a man might write while a woman will say what the narrator felt and thought and even smelled, ymmv though and not saying this is true for all.

 

[Handley_Page]

I was referring the discussion of the story structure, narratives and perspectives etc.

Verbose, as in communicative? Intelligent? What words do you feel are unnecessary.
Maybe they seem unnecessary to you due to the male-centric society we have? All this hetro-normative testosterone laden macho behavior means maybe in their 9my characters) female-focused environment that they would express themselves more freely? That's the perspective I took anyway

I wouldn't care to comment on actual societies, in mine, I just flipped some of the societal norms of our past. It's fiction after all.
Thank for taking the time to browse my stuff. Much appreciated.

The magazine "Private Eye" used to have a small section (generally called 'Wimmin') where such verbose postulations were quoted. Generally, there was a mistake of some sort and that would be the point of the humour.

I don't think I understood more than one word in four there.
Sorry, but I never made it to University.

 

[JCSTREET]

They were missing some

A two-foot putt...who the hell misses a two-foot putt?

A one legged golfer?

pretty short putts at the Master's yesterday

 

[Oblimo]

I’m going to breach bulletin board etiquette and post before reading the entire thread, because the genesis of this thread touches upon a pet peeve of mine and I have no willpower after spending the past 6 hours listening to music released in the last 8 years just so I could decide what a 18 year old madman would pick as his Helter Skelter when I knew the whole time I could’ve just picked randomly for realism, but I was going for verisimilitude, dammit.

Where was I. Oh, yeah. My breast description pet peeve. Here it is:

She had perfect breasts.

What the hell does “perfect breasts” even mean?

Even describing breasts in terms of fruits and sports equipment of various (ever increasing as more women are introduced) sizes, even the ubiquitous “breasts bigger than her head,” actually contain a referent or two. Usually two.

Anyway, my favorite trick is to have other characters comment about a character’s attributes, rather than simply rattle it off in narration. That way, if some barfly says to Our Heroine, “Your breasts are perfect. I bet you can’t see your feet,” then your prurient, male gaze at least serves a dual purpose of characterization.

 

[JasonClearwater]

Anyway, my favorite trick is to have other characters comment about a character’s attributes, rather than simply rattle it off in narration. That way, if some barfly says to Our Heroine, “Your breasts are perfect. I bet you can’t see your feet,” then your prurient, male gaze at least serves a dual purpose of characterization.

What - you don't have your women gaze in the mirror, adjust their breasts, push them together, think how great they are, tweak their nipples till they're hard [we all know women do that just before they leave the house], then put on the brightest red lipstick possible, pout at their own reflection, and then think about they could be more attractive to men?

No?

Then you're doing it wrong.

 

[NotWise]

What the hell does “perfect breasts” even mean?

I don't remember using that description, but I'd bet I have. It's a non-specific description intended to produce a positive reaction in the reader. The reader can fill in what it means to them.

Even describing breasts in terms of fruits and sports equipment of various (ever increasing as more women are introduced) sizes, even the ubiquitous “breasts bigger than her head,” actually contain a referent or two. Usually two.

I once saw a video of a modern dance+spoken word performance by two Spanish women. They started the program completely naked and talked about events and people in their lives from their earliest memories on. With each tough learning experience they disappeared off stage and came back with more clothes on.

At one point they started talking about breasts--probably they'd reached their teen years--about how they're usually not perfect, and about a mutual friend who was an intelligent, independent thinker. They said her breasts 'looked in opposite directions, as if they'd argued.'

That has become my favorite tit description.

The friend was killed in a car accident, and they put on more clothes. They were armored in business suits at the end of the show.

Anyway, my favorite trick is to have other characters comment about a character’s attributes, rather than simply rattle it off in narration. That way, if some barfly says to Our Heroine, “Your breasts are perfect. I bet you can’t see your feet,” then your prurient, male gaze at least serves a dual purpose of characterization.

I'll have to remember that, but my characters don't usually talk tits.

 

[Oblimo]

Then you're doing it wrong.

Well, if there ever were a website on which to write wrongs, this is it.

Speaking of mirrors: I bet, if you picked 100 Literotica stories at random, at least 80 of the damn things would have the main characters looking at themselves in the mirror in order to describe them.

I’m so sick of that trope I’m having the villain of the story I’m currently working on, upon being finally revealed, spend his first scenes smashing all the mirrors he can find.

heh. write wrongs.

 

[JasonClearwater]

Well, if there ever were a website on which to write wrongs, this is it.

Speaking of mirrors: I bet, if you picked 100 Literotica stories at random, at least 80of the damn things would have the main characters looking at themselves in the mirror in order to describe them.

I’m so sick of that trope I’m having the villain of the story I’m currently working on, upon being finally revealed, spend his first scenes smashing all the mirrors he can find.

heh. write wrongs.

Come over to GM. We don't have mirrors, unless there's a woman in the room, and the only description of self you're going to get is of the hardness of body (rated on a scale of 9-10) and the size of the cock (rated on a scale of X-XXXL).

 

[NotWise]

Speaking of mirrors: I bet, if you picked 100 Literotica stories at random, at least 80of the damn things would have the main characters looking at themselves in the mirror in order to describe them

Sheepish hand in air. I've done it once, and I quoted it a few posts back. I didn't know it was that common, and no-one complained at the time.

 

[Oblimo]

Come over to GM.

I could certainly use the practice. I’ve been told my homoerotic stuff is rather stiff, and not in the good way. And that’s after racking up a lot of hours on Nifty.

 

[Oblimo]

No one here should ever shy away from writing a story from the point of the view of the opposite sex.

After writing...the thing...I received an anonymous comment asking me if I was a woman because of how authentic my female characters sounded. For a very fleeting moment, my writer’s ego was edging on an egogasm. And then I remembered what I had actually written, wherein the female lead is literally a personification of a male artist’s screwed-up ideas about female sexuality made out of living lime Jell-O.

I mean, if I had written a sequel, I would have called it The Male Glaze.

So to this day I wonder what sort of women anon was used to encountering.

 

[JasonClearwater]

And then I remembered what I had actually written, wherein the female lead is literally a personification of a male artist’s screwed-up ideas about female sexuality made out of living lime Jell-O.

I mean, if I had written a sequel, I would have called it The Male Glaze.

So to this day I wonder what sort of women anon was used to encountering.

HAHAHA. Fuck me, that's hilarious.

 

[Oblimo]

HAHAHA. Fuck me, that's hilarious.

We aim to please.

Actually, a few have sought me out online to tell me what a loser I am and that they and their friends are laughing at me because I wrote and disseminated...the thing.

My answer is always the same:

• It’s supposed to be funny.
• One of your friends does in fact masturbate furiously to it. And you’ll never be sure which one.

 

[JasonClearwater]

I could certainly use the practice. I’ve been told my homoerotic stuff is rather stiff, and not in the good way. And that’s after racking up a lot of hours on Nifty.

That place scares me. I'm always afraid I'm going to stumble onto something that'll get me put an an FBI watch-list.

It's like the lawless West of erotic writing. 'Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.'

Some good stuff, but also some...

 

[Oblimo]

Sheepish hand in air. I've done it once, and I quoted it a few posts back. I didn't know it was that common, and no-one complained at the time.

No need for sheeping, if you ask me. It’s used frequently because it’s a trusty, successful gimmick.

 

[Oblimo]

“Hey Jason, we’re going to Nifty! Wait, where’s Jason? Jason?!”
​

Can’t blame you one iota. I’m an Old One from the Age of Usenet. I’ve seen things you young people wouldn’t believe. And informed INTERPOL about.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I could certainly use the practice. I’ve been told my homoerotic stuff is rather stiff, and not in the good way. And that’s after racking up a lot of hours on Nifty.

You know, I think Nifty was the first online smut I ever encountered. Even before the World Wide Web.