“Realism” in writing sexual relations

[TxRad]

I've had two ladies living with me for a couple or three years now. It works well but we are older and aren't looking for anything else.

 

[Seadog777]

It is in the US as well, sequential polygamy is widespread and among the well to do...well...being "civilized"...we call them mistresses, girlfriends, interns, personal secretaries, Goomah...

LOL.
I like how you worded that.
I couldn't sleep with my secretary.
She's ridiculously beautiful, however, she is a former client of mine.

 

[Seadog777]

I've had two ladies living with me for a couple or three years now. It works well but we are older and aren't looking for anything else.

I live with my wife and 2 daughters, that's more than enough bitching at me for nothing, to deal with. LOL.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

In all of that time and locations, I never once met a "happy couple" in an open marriage.
If you believe the numbers, then I'm sure they're out there.

25 years and counting, in my case... I know various others over 20 years, one couple notched up about 40 years until one partner died recently. And that's just the polyamorous people - most of the experienced swingers I've met seemed happy, though I suppose the ones who weren't would have self-selected out from such events.

I've almost never met a happy stay-at-home wife, mind you. Experiences vary.

 

[MsNatalie99]

Multiple wives is common in the Eastern-Southeast Asia Countries as well as the Pacific Island Countries.
Even there where it's a centuries old tradition, there are problems.

Not denying that. Only stating it had successfully been done in other cultures. Yes, they had issues, like eating their weak and old, or sacrificing children. Fortunately, sensibilities have changed over time, making what was once a common and socially acceptable, if not enchouraged practice taboo.

 

[Seadog777]

25 years and counting, in my case... I know various others over 20 years, one couple notched up about 40 years until one partner died recently. And that's just the polyamorous people - most of the experienced swingers I've met seemed happy, though I suppose the ones who weren't would have self-selected out from such events.

I've almost never met a happy stay-at-home wife, mind you. Experiences vary.

God bless.
Y'all are in the very rare section.

 

[Seadog777]

Not denying that. Only stating it had successfully been done in other cultures. Yes, they had issues, like eating their weak and old, or sacrificing children. Fortunately, sensibilities have changed over time, making what was once a common and socially acceptable, if not enchouraged practice taboo.

Modern Society has a problem with putting the word "taboo" on things they simply do not agree with or understand.
I do not understand have multiple wives(I get bitched at enough with 1 wife and 2 daughters), who the hell would want to add anymore. LOL.

 

[MsNatalie99]

Modern Society has a problem with putting the word "taboo" on things they simply do not agree with or understand.

That is what taboo means. We've also adapted existing words in other topics.


Sorry if that sounded rude. Not trying to put you down or insult your intellegence.

 

[windar]

I think the OP's assumption is that all women react the same as do all men. But people are individuals on a continuum. There are studies where subjects are asked to describe orgasm and if sex specfic references, like spurting semen, are removed, then panels of readers are unable to distinguish male accounts from female ones.

I'm male and write with a female co-author. I sometimes write from the perspective of female characters and she thinks I get things right. But your mileage may vary...

 

[Auden James]

I saw an old movie in my Hauer days called _Flesh and blood_ , kind of what the Middle Ages was really like. . . . I don’t remember the whole movie, but it was believable and in character I thought. They could have made him a true villain who thought that women REALLY enjoyed being raped if they wanted rather than “rape fantasies” but they didn’t. That example may help explain what I am trying to ask about.

I don't really see how this relates to your intial question, LdyHoneybee. Flesh and Blood was written by Gerard Soeteman and
Paul Verhoeven, so do you want to imply that these gents "get" women because they didn't make their female character really enjoy being raped? Well, it's a LIT rule that the raped character has to enjoy her rape at some point, otherwise a story containing rape will probably not get published on here in the first place, hence it might not be at all the writer's fault if you dislike how rape is portrayed on LIT, but rather it might just be a mere contingency of LIT's rules.

Apart from that I think it'd helpful if you could maybe name some things that, at least to your mind, "break" a female character in the sense of not being convincing anymore in a story's sexual context. You seem to hold some implicit believes about genuine female behavior in such contexts, and I think it'd only be of benefit to this discussion if you could make some of these implicit believes explicit!

 

[Seadog777]

That is what taboo means. We've also adapted existing words in other topics.


Sorry if that sounded rude. Not trying to put you down or insult your intellegence.

LOL. You weren't being rude.
I'm quite confident in my 97th percentile intelligence.
You're good.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

God bless.
Y'all are in the very rare section.

No shit. Or as my bio says, yes I'm a bisexual kinky poly slut, but I'm still not going to fuck randoms off the internet.

But consensual open relationships are much more common than people think, just that the people in them tend to stay very quiet about it, especially until any children are grown up. It's quite entertaining getting my uni alumni magazine with articles about alumni who have recently died or are now in their 80s, and how many mention how they live or lived with more than one partner in a relationship.

Sure multiple relationships are difficult, but let's face it, it doesn't stop couples having children, bringing in a third person who's needy and totally unreasonable... Polyamory is probably about as good a dry run for parenthood as you'll get. And as a friend of mine asked me once, "how on earth do couples manage to raise a baby with only two parents?"
"I have no idea."

 

[lovecraft68]

I live with my wife and 2 daughters, that's more than enough bitching at me for nothing, to deal with. LOL.

I remember those days of being outnumbered and outgunned. Fortunately my girls are 32/29 and have been on their own for some time so now its just the wife....and she has seriously upper her game since her back up left.

 

[Maxiine]

....I never once met a "happy couple" in an open marriage...

I believe you, but I've been poly since high school, through college, and a professional career. It exists.

 

[Maxiine]

....People in them tend to stay very quiet about it, especially until any children are grown up. It's quite entertaining getting my uni alumni magazine with articles about alumni who have recently died or are now in their 80s, and how many mention how they live or lived with more than one partner in a relationship...

I wrote a series about "The PTO." (Parent Teacher Organization)

It was based on my real life experiences. We were educated and discrete, and lived in a university town an hour or so away from a metropolitan area. A sub-group within the PTO were swingers. We organized all manner of activities to provide our children with cultural activities not available in our town. Renting buses and hiring teenage chaperones.

On at least one weekend a month the kids went to the Museum of Modern Art... Or Museum of Natural History... Or the Planetarium... And had dinner at a sidewalk cafe... While we partied quite naked at one another's homes.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I wrote a series about "The PTO." (Parent Teacher Organization)

It was based on my real life experiences. We were educated and discrete, and lived in a university town an hour or so away from a metropolitan area. A sub-group within the PTO were swingers. We organized all manner of activities to provide our children with cultural activities not available in our town. Renting buses and hiring teenage chaperones.

On at least one weekend a month the kids went to the Museum of Modern Art... Or Museum of Natural History... Or the Planetarium... And had dinner at a sidewalk cafe... While we partied quite naked at one another's homes.

Ha! I can safely say our local PTA was nothing like that - wouldn't be allowed to use non-DBS checked teenage chaperones for starters... Also, thinking back to when I was in the PTA and the other parents involved: no, just no...

 

[LdyHoneybee]

I don't really see how this relates to your intial question, LdyHoneybee. Flesh and Blood was written by Gerard Soeteman and
Paul Verhoeven, so do you want to imply that these gents "get" women because they didn't make their female character really enjoy being raped? Well, it's a LIT rule that the raped character has to enjoy her rape at some point, otherwise a story containing rape will probably not get published on here in the first place, hence it might not be at all the writer's fault if you dislike how rape is portrayed on LIT, but rather it might just be a mere contingency of LIT's rules.

Apart from that I think it'd helpful if you could maybe name some things that, at least to your mind, "break" a female character in the sense of not being convincing anymore in a story's sexual context. You seem to hold some implicit believes about genuine female behavior in such contexts, and I think it'd only be of benefit to this discussion if you could make some of these implicit believes explicit!

I do not want to hurt or anger anyone by dragging them out, no. (Present company may safely be excepted.) Sorry. I didn’t know that was a rule, however. Thanks for that information as it does change my impression somewhat if the rapee is “required“ to enjoy the experience.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

I do not want to hurt or anger anyone by dragging them out, no. Sorry. I didn’t know that was a rule, however. Thanks for that information as it does change my impression somewhat if the rapee is “required“ to enjoy the experience.

I wish folks would stop talking about my “preferences.“ That did not really have anything to do with the reason I asked. And the observation not only seems to be true about sexual situations. I read years ago that JKRowling has no middle name but, on her publisher’s advice, used the JK because “no boys would believe or read a book about a boy written by a woman,“ (would they?) and the example in the OP about Dickens having not had to exercise too much thought to conclude from her writing (along with the circumstance that no one knew ”him”) that George Eliot was a woman writing under a man’s name. I conclude, perhaps erroneously, that these two incidents both seem to demonstrate that there may be some validity in the possibility apart from a anyone’s likes or dislikes.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Can a person of one sex write convincingly about the opposite sex’s experience? Yes, of course. Two points however.

First, the better the writer, the more convincing the story. That takes work however, not just WRT learning to write well, but also learning how the other sex thinks and feels - and that’s a separate area of study. Many writers here churn out male-oriented ‘strokers’ of the same dismal literary merit as those at the other end of the spectrum, those soppy, saccharine, female-aimed paperback romances nobody ever admits to buying. Neither have much merit, IMO. Mind you, there is a readership for both, people who presumably don’t seem to care.

Second, somebody had better be able to, otherwise nobody would be able to write a story showing both genders realistically. Parenthetically, one sees of late members of various minority groups claiming that only they have the right to write about their own group because they’re the only ones who can really understand that it’s like. Reducto ad absurdum, that would mean that nobody can write a story involving anyone outside one’s own gender, race, sex, age, economic class, occupation, residence, education and so on. It would be the literary equivalent of reading one’s own diary.

So, yes, but it’s not easy to do very well. Fortunately, some can and do.

It’s a good question, BTW.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

Agreed 100% Or rather that they should be able to. Not only that but you seem to have correctly derived the reason for my question. I am trying to isolate the key concepts, if not for here then generally and specifically considering the orientation of this site: sexuality and responses thereto.

 

[Athalia]

I think there are a few women who get men. I edit for Athalia, and I find her stuff pretty realistic when it comes to writing male characters. As for me writing women's characters, I try my best, and have the advantage that she edits for me and will occasionally put a "Puh-leeze" notation where I've gone over the edge. So she acts as a reality check... something I rarely have to do with her writing.

Thanks for the compliment. As I've said in other threads, women are more obliged to study men in this culture than men are obliged to figure out women, because women are far more dependent on men for success in jobs and marriages and child-rearing. So our study of the opposite sex begins even before puberty.

But I don't have any illusions that the women in my stories are much like real ones. They are usually sexually available, like to call all the shots, have few jealousy hangups, and enjoy fucking as much as the men do. But these are tropes in erotic fiction, and that's my excuse.

The women in my stories end up like that, but theirs is a journey rather than a destination. They don't usually start out that way.

 

[windar]

the example in the OP about Dickens having not had to exercise too much thought to conclude from her writing (along with the circumstance that no one knew ”him”) that George Eliot was a woman writing under a man’s name.

This is an example of confirmation bias. The odds of guessing correctly are 50:50 so it proves nothing. There is a thread somewhere here with an algorithm that is supposed to tell the gender of the author. I ran some paragraphs of mine and my female co-author and it was no better than flipping a coin. Besides gender, it said she was "European" and she's from the US Midwest....

 

[LdyHoneybee]

Thanks for the compliment. As I've said in other threads, women are more obliged to study men in this culture than men are obliged to figure out women, because women are far more dependent on men for success in jobs and marriages and child-rearing. So our study of the opposite sex begins even before puberty.


The women in my stories end up like that, but theirs is a journey rather than a destination. They don't usually start out that way.

I think so too Athalia. If I may without seeming too sexist, there was a time when a woman’s happiness, not to mention survival, depended pretty entirely upon how well she understood men in what was pretty completely a man’s world. The woman who did that well survived and reproduced and taught her daughters. The ones who did not died or disappeared frm the gene pool. Anyone who accepts Darwin’s theories can see the sense of that, I think.

 

[Athalia]

I saw an old movie in my Hauer days called _Flesh and blood_ , kind of what the Middle Ages was really like. SPOILERS He played the leader of a brigand band who, in the first half hour, took the noble heroine who was engaged to an arranged noble groom captive for ransom and, with his band of guys spreading her legs for him to his groin level, matter of factly raped her as if they were all animals and she was in estrus. Then he walked off giving his men the run of her. later, he decided he liked her, claimed her back, and taught her in the bath they shared what a female orgasm was like. She was surprised but she liked it And took up with him Eventually. He presented as definitely male but aware enough of human reactions that, when he wanted to be liked, he knew what to do. I don’t remember the whole movie, but it was believable and in character I thought. They could have made him a true villain who thought that women REALLY enjoyed being raped if they wanted rather than “rape fantasies” but they didn’t. That example may help explain what I am trying to ask about.

I found the movie "Flesh + Blood" on IMDB, and it sounds like that's the one you're referring to. Let's see... directed by a man, screenplay by that man and another man, from the other man's story. While I haven't seen the film and therefore shouldn't judge it, my initial impression is that it's basically a male fantasy based on a "Stockholm Syndrome" plot device. Did any of those men ever actually talk to women who had been serially raped? I can't believe that after being brutally gang-raped, the next time that the woman had intercourse with one of the rapists would be a positive, life-affirming experience. None of my extensive research and experience on rape, back when I was a rape counselor, has turned up even one instance of that.

The woman's sudden liking for sex seems to be a simple for device for instilling sympathy in a character that is really unsympathetic. Charitable acts by villains that discover their heart of gold are tropes in drama, but I find them unconvincing in general, and this one in particular.

 

[LdyHoneybee]

This is an example of confirmation bias. The odds of guessing correctly are 50:50 so it proves nothing. There is a thread somewhere here with an algorithm that is supposed to tell the gender of the author. I ran some paragraphs of mine and my female co-author and it was no better than flipping a coin. Besides gender, it said she was "European" and she's from the US Midwest....

If you write together, shouldn’t 50/50 be a confirmation of the “validity” of the idea?