After punishment care

[catalina_francisco]

The way I do it, aftercare is what brings the entire act together. I get off on giving my subs pain only so I can make them feel better afterwards.

That is not punishment, it is pleasure...2 different things.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i don't know that i need 'after punishment care' as much as Him to just tell me He still loves me and even though i upset Him, i'm still His, however the one physical punishment i've received i did need Him to hold me when it was over, but it was right before bed anyway so that wasn't a problem, actually we were IN bed when my smart mouth got me the cropping. He had to get up out of bed to get the crop, which means i got it worse me and my smart mouth *sighs*

 

[Daddyslilpet]

For us "punishment" isn't what I'd really call it. Like Homburg, Daddy doesn't use physical punishments on me. However, when I know I have disappointed Him or upset Him in some manner I am probably entirely much harder on myself than He could ever be. It is important for us to discuss things and then for Him to let me know that it is all behind us.

Orgasms are never a reward for bad behavior in our household. Orgasms are only rewards for good behavior.

 

[Homburg]

To clarify something, I don't use hitting for punishment. I do hit. I use, and enjoy using, pain for other reasons. It may be a fine point, but I do perform aftercare post scenes involving pain or other intense stimulation, and it does involve telling her how wonderful she did, how proud of her I am, etc all dependent on what she seems to need. I just don't do "after punishment care" for the reasons mentioned above.

Pain = good.
Aftercare post pain = necessary

 

[the captians wench]

To clarify something, I don't use hitting for punishment. I do hit. I use, and enjoy using, pain for other reasons. It may be a fine point, but I do perform aftercare post scenes involving pain or other intense stimulation, and it does involve telling her how wonderful she did, how proud of her I am, etc all dependent on what she seems to need. I just don't do "after punishment care" for the reasons mentioned above.

Pain = good.
Aftercare post pain = necessary

Right and there are threads here about aftercare. But I know that my punishments are usually very taxing, as they are ment to be, and while I probably don't need a lot more than a "okay it's over you're forgiven, I love you", if I get something extra it is apreciated and seen as the generous gift that it is. I know a lot of us are a lot harder on our selves than any one else is on us, so sometimes the punishment is in itself a kind of after care. It's these other reasons for aftercare that I am curious to explore in this thread.

 

[Homburg]

Right and there are threads here about aftercare. But I know that my punishments are usually very taxing, as they are ment to be, and while I probably don't need a lot more than a "okay it's over you're forgiven, I love you", if I get something extra it is apreciated and seen as the generous gift that it is. I know a lot of us are a lot harder on our selves than any one else is on us, so sometimes the punishment is in itself a kind of after care. It's these other reasons for aftercare that I am curious to explore in this thread.

I was clarifying largely because I did not want to give the wrong impression.

Still, something that you said here did deserve mention. While I tend to be fairly cold about punishment, I do monitor to make sure that she is not being harder on hersefl than I feel that she needs to be. Yes, she shoul dbe hard on herself. She failed me. But she should only be as hard on herself as she needs to be. Unfortunately, like many people, she is harder on herself than I ever am, and that has to be curtailed. Sometimes it is as simple as brushing against her to distract her, other times it is giving her something to do to mentally break the self-abusive thought patterns.

One time and one time only, it got so bad that I reminded her that she could safe word at any time. Mental and emotional overload were just as valid a reason to safeword as physical overload. She did, and imeediately got the same sort of rescue (physical and emotional) as she gets if she safewords for physical reasons.

It's a fine line...

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I was clarifying largely because I did not want to give the wrong impression.

Still, something that you said here did deserve mention. While I tend to be fairly cold about punishment, I do monitor to make sure that she is not being harder on hersefl than I feel that she needs to be. Yes, she shoul dbe hard on herself. She failed me. But she should only be as hard on herself as she needs to be. Unfortunately, like many people, she is harder on herself than I ever am, and that has to be curtailed. Sometimes it is as simple as brushing against her to distract her, other times it is giving her something to do to mentally break the self-abusive thought patterns.

One time and one time only, it got so bad that I reminded her that she could safe word at any time. Mental and emotional overload were just as valid a reason to safeword as physical overload. She did, and imeediately got the same sort of rescue (physical and emotional) as she gets if she safewords for physical reasons.

It's a fine line...

it seems to me that safe wording out of punishment is kind of a "cop out" in MY opinion that is. my reasoning behind that is because i know if i safe word everything stops, and Master comes to my aid to hold me, comfort me etc..and it seems that if i'm safe wording out of a punishment it's like manipulating the situation. "i don't like this punishment so i'll just safe word and it will end" *shrugs* again..just my opinion.....

 

[Homburg]

it seems to me that safe wording out of punishment is kind of a "cop out" in MY opinion that is. my reasoning behind that is because i know if i safe word everything stops, and Master comes to my aid to hold me, comfort me etc..and it seems that if i'm safe wording out of a punishment it's like manipulating the situation. "i don't like this punishment so i'll just safe word and it will end" *shrugs* again..just my opinion.....

Sweety, it is a cop out. It was also her Master, me, saying, "Jesus, I'm destroying her". It let her have a way out, and it let me have a way out too. She would never have used it had I not suggested it.

I love her, and sometimes push her too far. And when I see her crumbling and dying inside, I have to do something. But if I simply stop on something like this, I wrong her. She needed to be punished. It was a dire offense. She felt guilty as hell about safewording, but, in her own way, it was submission to me. She understood why I reminded her that she could safeword. And I think she understood that I wanted her to, and wanted her to stop hurting herself so much. In safe wording, she let it all go, and just trusted me to make it all better.

I'm not explaining this well. Eh, she beats herself up along with any punishment I give her. In this case, it was FAR more than I wanted. I can tell her "It's okay, baby" but she won't believe me. She won't stop beating herself up. When she safe words, she has to trust me to make everything better. It's my role. She safe words, I rescue her. At that point, she stops kicking herself, and just falls into me.

Sure, it was a cop out, but it was a cop out that saves us both. She feels guilty about it to this day, yes, but she would bear more significant emotional scars had I let her keep going.

Make sense?

 

[EmpressFi]

I'm not explaining this well. Eh, she beats herself up along with any punishment I give her. In this case, it was FAR more than I wanted. I can tell her "It's okay, baby" but she won't believe me. She won't stop beating herself up. When she safe words, she has to trust me to make everything better. It's my role. She safe words, I rescue her. At that point, she stops kicking herself, and just falls into me.

Sure, it was a cop out, but it was a cop out that saves us both. She feels guilty about it to this day, yes, but she would bear more significant emotional scars had I let her keep going.

Make sense?

You're explaining it perfectly... and she sounds like me. For somethings, I'm always worse on myself than the punishment I'm given. Cop out or not. Whether you agree or not.. it was something they did out of love for each other. I dont think she used it to be manipulative, to get her way out, and I think most Dom's would figure out that trend right away and put their boot down..

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Sweety, it is a cop out. It was also her Master, me, saying, "Jesus, I'm destroying her". It let her have a way out, and it let me have a way out too. She would never have used it had I not suggested it.

I love her, and sometimes push her too far. And when I see her crumbling and dying inside, I have to do something. But if I simply stop on something like this, I wrong her. She needed to be punished. It was a dire offense. She felt guilty as hell about safewording, but, in her own way, it was submission to me. She understood why I reminded her that she could safeword. And I think she understood that I wanted her to, and wanted her to stop hurting herself so much. In safe wording, she let it all go, and just trusted me to make it all better.

I'm not explaining this well. Eh, she beats herself up along with any punishment I give her. In this case, it was FAR more than I wanted. I can tell her "It's okay, baby" but she won't believe me. She won't stop beating herself up. When she safe words, she has to trust me to make everything better. It's my role. She safe words, I rescue her. At that point, she stops kicking herself, and just falls into me.

Sure, it was a cop out, but it was a cop out that saves us both. She feels guilty about it to this day, yes, but she would bear more significant emotional scars had I let her keep going.

Make sense?

it does make sense, and as it works for you, that's great. and i hope i did not come off as i was judging how You do things because i wasn't i just meant for me, i wouldn't be comfortable safe wording out of a punishment (even if Master said that i could) because i think i would feel worse about that than i did about the punishment in the first place. and trust me, i too beat myself up way more than anything He could do to punish me when i've failed Him. but when i'm beating myself up He will only let me go so far and then tell me to dry it, and move on before i get into more trouble because the offense is over and done with and so is the punishment. and at that point if i don't stop beating myself up, then i am failing Him again because He's giving me an order and i'm disobeying by continuing to be hard on myself for something that He said is over.

although we did talk about this and He did say it would depend on the situation. He said if He was 'berating' me as He was punishing me and He felt it had become too much by looking at me or whatever, then He would give me the option to safe word if i needed to. i'm not sure if even then i would simply because when i fail Him, as much as i HATE the punishment, i know that i deserve it and i NEED it to have closure and if i use the safe word, the punishment ends and the closure never happens.....if that makes sense. so my long winded post was just to say that i DO understand what you're saying, i was just giving my two cents on why it would not work for me and Master

 

[lil_slave_rose]

You're explaining it perfectly... and she sounds like me. For somethings, I'm always worse on myself than the punishment I'm given. Cop out or not. Whether you agree or not.. it was something they did out of love for each other. I dont think she used it to be manipulative, to get her way out, and I think most Dom's would figure out that trend right away and put their boot down..

ok..first off, i wasn't saying that SHE used it as a cop out or that SHE was trying to manipulate the situation. i also never said that i didn't agree with HIM or HIS statements, what i said was, it wouldn't work in MY relationship and i gave the reasons why. and as i just posted to Him, i too am harder on myself when i've failed Him than He could ever be.

 

[EmpressFi]

ok..first off, i wasn't saying that SHE used it as a cop out or that SHE was trying to manipulate the situation. i also never said that i didn't agree with HIM or HIS statements, what i said was, it wouldn't work in MY relationship and i gave the reasons why. and as i just posted to Him, i too am harder on myself when i've failed Him than He could ever be.

I wasnt saying YOU said it was at all. I apologize ifyou thought I was saying it directed at you. Homburg started off his post I was replying to with

Originally Posted by Homburg
Sweety, it is a cop out. It was also her Master, me, saying, "Jesus, I'm destroying her". It let her have a way out, and it let me have a way out too. She would never have used it had I not suggested it.

So.. I was saying cop out or not.. in relation to that. And I apolgoize if I misunderstood what you'd said earlier

it seems to me that safe wording out of punishment is kind of a "cop out" in MY opinion that is. my reasoning behind that is because i know if i safe word everything stops, and Master comes to my aid to hold me, comfort me etc..and it seems that if i'm safe wording out of a punishment it's like manipulating the situation. "i don't like this punishment so i'll just safe word and it will end" *shrugs* again..just my opinion.....

implied that the temptation to use to to get out of a punishment would be increased.. manipulating the situation are your own words and I was responding that I didnt believe this was the case in the situation he was describing.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

implied that the temptation to use to to get out of a punishment would be increased.. manipulating the situation are your own words and I was responding that I didnt believe this was the case in the situation he was describing.

exactly, and i was not speaking of "this situation" i was making an in general comment and explaining why for me, safe wording out of a punishment wouldn't feel right. yes manipulating was my word, but i did not say that SHE in THIS situation was manipulating...was my point

 

[Homburg]

although we did talk about this and He did say it would depend on the situation. He said if He was 'berating' me as He was punishing me and He felt it had become too much by looking at me or whatever, then He would give me the option to safe word if i needed to.

Your Master understands well what I was talking about, and I'm glad you do too.

I took no offense =)

"v" safe words VERY Rarely. In fact, I can't remember the last time she got beyond a yellow, aside from this incident. She takes a LOT from me without complaint, and I have no worries whatsoever that she is abusing her safe word. If anything, I think she probably uses it too little, relying on me to read her totally. not horrible, as a good Dom should always be reading, but I wish she would be a bit more willing at times, especially when we try something new.

 

[Netzach]

This is a case in point of why I think safewords suck, or relying too much on 'em does. Not that you're doing anything wrong, your frustration brings this up in my mind.

I've never known a service-oriented sub who *didn't* self-torture rather than ever ever ever say "red." When someone's fighting using them with their entire identity you don't get the communication. I find that stressing plain english sometimes calms people into feeling like I'm getting information not "being told to stop"

 

[Homburg]

It's a pickle, I agree. I was working some percussive stuff with "w" once, and she was dancing around like crazy (tied wrists together above her head, no ankle restraints), so it was dead tough for me to aim. Apparently I kept managing to get the same damned spot on her right glute, and it was really dring her to distraction. I'm trying to vary my targets, and she's moving to try to keep me away from that spot, and we're stupidly in sync.

No safeword, but she tells me afterwards that she was "so close" to safewording. That got my eye twitching. *sigh* And I was asking her how she was doing the whole time, as this was the first time I'd really opened up on her.

Communication = good.

That said, she never did say that I had a "bit of a light hand" after that. *shrug* I'm not gonna pound anyone the first couple of times out. Each ass is different. And hers was apparently skilled at playing "Follow the bouncing paddle".....

 

[SubKekiLee]

In the 4 months we have been together I have never safeworded out of anything if I have a punishment coming I take it, I am not saying I dont squirm if it hurts a bit more than I anticipated but he will tell you Ive never used my word ive gotten close but never actually uttered those words. I wouldnt safeword out of a punishment as I obviously did something to get that occurance.

IMO

 

[Homburg]

In the 4 months we have been together I have never safeworded out of anything if I have a punishment coming I take it, I am not saying I dont squirm if it hurts a bit more than I anticipated but he will tell you Ive never used my word ive gotten close but never actually uttered those words. I wouldnt safeword out of a punishment as I obviously did something to get that occurance.

That's more than a bit absolute. That is saying that he would never push too hard because he was pissed, and that you would take it, take actual injury, if he did.

The safeword is there as much to protect him as it is to protect you. He might not know that you are beyond tolerance for whatever reason. Take my "follow the bouncing paddle" above. What are the odds? Are you saying that you wouldn't safeword out of a punishment even if it got excessive? How does allowing yourself to come to harm serve your Master's wishes?

At the end of the day, he protects you from everything else, but you have to protect yourself from him. And he wants you to do that, if he is even remotely conscientious.

The first time we scened, I asked "w" what she preferred for a safeword. She said, "I don't use safewords, I trust my Master." Full stop. Safe word gets established or we don't go further. Homburg does not do that. She grumbled and groused, but took it (saying that she wasn't going to use it), and the very next scene she yellow-lighted me. And then she yellowed me in the scene I mentioned and almost red-lighted. And this from a girl that said she doesn't use safewords, and wouldn't use them if she did. Why did she use it? Because she knew it would dissappoint me horribly if she let something bad happen to her out of stubborn subby pride.

In my world, pride is something worthwhile for my gal to feel. She should be proud of herself, her accomplishments, our relationship, etc. But stubborn pride is not so good. She should never let her pride cause her to allow injury to happen. So, while uncommon, safewords happen, and I consider pridefully refusing to safeword to be poor service to me indeed. I do not want to break my toys, even when they are being stubborn and willful.

Service comes before pride.

 

[the captians wench]

I've always been one to only pull out my safeword in the most extreme circumstances. I've only gotten to yellow a handful of times and never red, tho I do juice a lot but that's a medical thing and we wouldn't want wenchie passing out while she's being fucked and flogged silly. I would never consider safewording durring a punishment, not even my juice, which is why I think Hombog has a good point. It would endanger my helth in this situation and that little reminder that if you need something even when I'm upset with you, you can always tell me, that would put me more at ease and lead into the healing and forgiveness part of the punishment...the afterpunishmentcare.

But there are those who do use safewords to manipulate the situation, any situation. Reminds me of the line in Escape to Eden where they're in the bdsm shop and the cashier tells the chick that the sub really has all the power. There are always those who will manipulate the system, and those who will play by the rules to the extreme. The question isn't if they do it, it's when they do do it, does this work for that relationship.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Safe word...what's that?

I have never used mine. I have been lucky in my explorations and have played with Doms who though will push the envelope, respect my limits. Not that I have all that many.

Just saying

 

[catalina_francisco]

In the 4 months we have been together I have never safeworded out of anything if I have a punishment coming I take it, I am not saying I dont squirm if it hurts a bit more than I anticipated but he will tell you Ive never used my word ive gotten close but never actually uttered those words. I wouldnt safeword out of a punishment as I obviously did something to get that occurance.

IMO

Ah, it can go to places where you may beg to stop it even if not using a safeword, and live with the effects of not having it stopped for more than a day or 2. My last punishment left me with physical reminders for a few weeks, and I suspect a couple of twinges I now get from time to time are also as a result of that time....and he was not even angry, just determined I wouldn't forget again...it worked.

Catalina

 

[Homburg]

I've always been one to only pull out my safeword in the most extreme circumstances. I've only gotten to yellow a handful of times and never red, tho I do juice a lot but that's a medical thing and we wouldn't want wenchie passing out while she's being fucked and flogged silly. I would never consider safewording durring a punishment, not even my juice, which is why I think Hombog has a good point. It would endanger my helth in this situation and that little reminder that if you need something even when I'm upset with you, you can always tell me, that would put me more at ease and lead into the healing and forgiveness part of the punishment...the afterpunishmentcare.

That is exactly what I am talking about, and your juice example is perfect. Personally, I would get even more cranky if I knew something like that were going on with my gal. Your life is more important than my passing irritation.

But there are those who do use safewords to manipulate the situation, any situation. Reminds me of the line in Escape to Eden where they're in the bdsm shop and the cashier tells the chick that the sub really has all the power. There are always those who will manipulate the system, and those who will play by the rules to the extreme. The question isn't if they do it, it's when they do do it, does this work for that relationship.

I agree, sometimes that works in a given relationship. D/s is all about power exchange. Power flows both ways. People that don't believe that misunderstand the milieu. I've written about this topic a couple of times, and gotten a surpising amount of guff for it. Some people just fail to understand that the power lies in submission, and that I have no power over her until she gives it to me. Yes, she can be taken with violence, but that is not D/s at that point. Without violence or coercion, the sub owns the power. The Dominant is merely borrowing it.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

That's more than a bit absolute. That is saying that he would never push too hard because he was pissed, and that you would take it, take actual injury, if he did.

The safeword is there as much to protect him as it is to protect you. He might not know that you are beyond tolerance for whatever reason. Take my "follow the bouncing paddle" above. What are the odds? Are you saying that you wouldn't safeword out of a punishment even if it got excessive? How does allowing yourself to come to harm serve your Master's wishes?

At the end of the day, he protects you from everything else, but you have to protect yourself from him. And he wants you to do that, if he is even remotely conscientious.

The first time we scened, I asked "w" what she preferred for a safeword. She said, "I don't use safewords, I trust my Master." Full stop. Safe word gets established or we don't go further. Homburg does not do that. She grumbled and groused, but took it (saying that she wasn't going to use it), and the very next scene she yellow-lighted me. And then she yellowed me in the scene I mentioned and almost red-lighted. And this from a girl that said she doesn't use safewords, and wouldn't use them if she did. Why did she use it? Because she knew it would dissappoint me horribly if she let something bad happen to her out of stubborn subby pride.

In my world, pride is something worthwhile for my gal to feel. She should be proud of herself, her accomplishments, our relationship, etc. But stubborn pride is not so good. She should never let her pride cause her to allow injury to happen. So, while uncommon, safewords happen, and I consider pridefully refusing to safeword to be poor service to me indeed. I do not want to break my toys, even when they are being stubborn and willful.

Service comes before pride.

while i do understand what you are saying, and mostly agree, there are still parts i don't agree with.

Are you saying that you wouldn't safeword out of a punishment even if it got excessive? How does allowing yourself to come to harm serve your Master's wishes?

i don't know about the person you were responding to, but for me, Yes, i'm saying that i would not safe word in a punishment even if it became excessive. Master knows me well enough, and reads me well enough to know when He's going too far. i have never had to safe word even in a scene and trust me our scenes are pretty intense. the only time i would safe word during a punishment is if He was so far gone in His anger that i feared he was going to HARM me..but He doesn't punish when He's angry so i doubt that will ever happen.

 

[Homburg]

the only time i would safe word during a punishment is if He was so far gone in His anger that i feared he was going to HARM me..but He doesn't punish when He's angry so i doubt that will ever happen.

At that point, we agree in value but differ in degrees, and you are cutting a fine point. Harm can be defined in many ways.

The point I was making was that you should not say "never". Fortunately, you've backed off of that point.

 

[ownedsubgal]

...have to say that i'm not understanding the logic behind safewording during a punishment either, but then i'm in a M/s dynamic where anything even approaching a safeword would be inappropriate in any circumstance. the purpose of a punishment is for the submissive/slave to suffer the consequences of her misbehavior or disobedience, if she has the power to end that suffering at any point then how exactly is it D/s?