After punishment care

[JMohegan]

Safewords, are a lot like training wheels when learning to ride a bike. I remember when I was learning to ride, my focus was on the joy of being able to ride the bike, not on the training wheels. They served a purpose until I could develop enough skill and confidence. One day the training wheels are taken off, and yes the risks or the potential of crashing and getting hurt are much greater and higher but the level of freedom gained is indescribable.

My arousal and appreciation have always been enhanced immeasurably by the fact that a partner could safeword any time.... but doesn't. That she could opt out, cop out, or walk out the door at any moment.... but chooses to stay.

So the training wheels analogy doesn't really work for me, as an individual. When used (and it has only been used rarely), the safeword has always functioned for me more as an emergency brake on a roller coaster.

When not used, the safeword option has always functioned as a thumbs up for my inner control freak. Heady confirmation that it's not force, but free will, that holds her in place.

 

[intothewoods]

My arousal and appreciation have always been enhanced immeasurably by the fact that a partner could safeword any time.... but doesn't. That she could opt out, cop out, or walk out the door at any moment.... but chooses to stay.

So the training wheels analogy doesn't really work for me, as an individual. When used (and it has only been used rarely), the safeword has always functioned for me more as an emergency brake on a roller coaster.

When not used, the safeword option has always functioned as a thumbs up for my inner control freak. Heady confirmation that it's not force, but free will, that holds her in place.

Ooh, that's hot. There is a lovely moment for me when I'm playing with my PYL and he's pushing the boundaries and I don't safeword - a moment of submission rather than bottoming. So awesome. For me, when it really comes down to it, the power exchange is what gets me off. And since I really have my guard up lately, and do a lot of bottoming and not submitting, when I have those moments when I feel safe enough to let go...it's just so cool.

 

[Noctame]

depending on what mood i'm in its either, but a nice cuddle is always good

 

[RJMasters]

My arousal and appreciation have always been enhanced immeasurably by the fact that a partner could safeword any time.... but doesn't. That she could opt out, cop out, or walk out the door at any moment.... but chooses to stay.

So the training wheels analogy doesn't really work for me, as an individual. When used (and it has only been used rarely), the safeword has always functioned for me more as an emergency brake on a roller coaster.

When not used, the safeword option has always functioned as a thumbs up for my inner control freak. Heady confirmation that it's not force, but free will, that holds her in place.

I get the thumbs up and the consent elements you mention here.

My analogy of training wheels was not meant to be explanatory of all aspects regarding safewords as much as it was sharing how my persepctive of safewords has changed.

I think were I put focus was more on the reliance of safewords than the actual use of them as a whole. I am not against the use of safewords nor do I think using them implies immaturity. Safe words can be a good way two people communicate both spoken and unspoken things.

I think when two people have been together long enough to know each other, there is less of a need to rely upon safewords. That is not to say they still cannot be in place, its just that they are not needed.

I know when I am pushing the envelop I also know when I am well inside the envelop but she is not responding well because I know her. When I know I am pushing the envelop I am not relying on safewords but rather I am checking in more often and paying closer attention.

We don't have safewords, but if she at anytime says "stop" or if she says "I can't, I can't" real quick twice...that is the equivilant of what most would consider as "red".

If I were to say that we are going to start using a system of safewords, I am positive that I would get a mixed reaction of laughter or of fear. Because she relies more on me and my control than her own when she is on the edge or in such a high states of arousal. She knows that I push her to the point of being out of control. To tell her that we are going to rely on safewords would certainly send mixed signals to her at this point. To her this would be me transfering responsiblity to her.

I know I could talk all day about the benifits of safewords and can agree that they are good and can be used, but at the end of the day I look at my own relationship and realise that safe words not only cannot be used in my relationship, they would certainly be detrimental in trying to force them. This simply translates to me that I have a huge responsibility that I must keep ever vigilant in. That's part and parcel of being me and living in my world and a responsibility I gladly accept. We have managed through famillarity to develop a system that gives us the equivilant of what others might have by using safewords. I know consent is present, I know when I have a thumbs up and when I don't, and a simple "stop" or "I can't" is all that is required as an emergency brake.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Nice to see you again, osg.

That's a really good question. My opinion follows, and applies to both punishment or play.

If the safeword means: "Okay, I got the message, I think that's enough now".... or.... "I'm really, really ready for this to be over!".... or..... "God, he's being unreasonable by continuing this long"...... or...... "I didn't think he'd be mad enough to do this!"..... or anything else along those lines, then I don't see the exchange as D/s.

However, a safeword that means: "I think my arm is breaking!", or "I'm two seconds from a mental meltdown", or anything else indicating impending serious & sustained harm, is totally consistent with D/s in my book.

thanks for giving me your perspective JMohegan, nice to see you again as well.
what you've said makes total sense to me, although part of me is still wondering why a safeword would be more appropriate during a punishment than just blurting out "my arm is breaking," or that you are in overwhelming psychological distress. someone used the term "safeword out" which to me implies a sort of get out of jail free pass. but communicating to the Dominant things he absolutely needs to know right now and would not know unless the submissive speaks up, i understand totally.

 

[JMohegan]

Ooh, that's hot. There is a lovely moment for me when I'm playing with my PYL and he's pushing the boundaries and I don't safeword - a moment of submission rather than bottoming. So awesome. For me, when it really comes down to it, the power exchange is what gets me off. And since I really have my guard up lately, and do a lot of bottoming and not submitting, when I have those moments when I feel safe enough to let go...it's just so cool.

Cool indeed.

I get the thumbs up and the consent elements you mention here.

My analogy of training wheels was not meant to be explanatory of all aspects regarding safewords as much as it was sharing how my persepctive of safewords has changed.

I thought you were quite clear about that purpose (sharing your perspective, and how it has changed). I was really just responding in kind.

I'm glad you expanded on your position, though. The details help me better understand where you're coming from.

thanks for giving me your perspective JMohegan, nice to see you again as well.
what you've said makes total sense to me, although part of me is still wondering why a safeword would be more appropriate during a punishment than just blurting out "my arm is breaking," or that you are in overwhelming psychological distress. someone used the term "safeword out" which to me implies a sort of get out of jail free pass. but communicating to the Dominant things he absolutely needs to know right now and would not know unless the submissive speaks up, i understand totally.

The point of "Red!" vs. specific blurts is, for me, to prevent misunderstandings at a time when both of us are really worked up. The intent of the word is clear and unmistakable in its delivery. It also gets the point across as quickly as possible, which could be critical in certain circumstances because I am often a very athletic Top.

But the really important point here is that the two are not mutually exclusive. "Red" is always followed, as soon as possible, by a specific explanation of what went wrong.

 

[Netzach]

thanks for giving me your perspective JMohegan, nice to see you again as well.
what you've said makes total sense to me, although part of me is still wondering why a safeword would be more appropriate during a punishment than just blurting out "my arm is breaking," or that you are in overwhelming psychological distress. someone used the term "safeword out" which to me implies a sort of get out of jail free pass. but communicating to the Dominant things he absolutely needs to know right now and would not know unless the submissive speaks up, i understand totally.

I prefer English too. I don't like to play with people who get sooooo incapacitated that they can't manage "I think I might faint" - signalling is good when I hood 'em up.

That seems like potential manipulation to me, I never liked it - the "I'm sooooo fargone I can't speak." My impulse is "we're gonna work on that." I mean I can trance out with the best of them, and I still feel like it's my job to speak up.

 

[the captians wench]

I think when we are talking about safewords, there seems to be this thought that safewords are used insted of anything else.

I know when my head is clear, and I have an issue, foot falling asleep or what ever, I will say...."um...my foot's asleep, can we remedy that or do you intend it to be that way?" *giggles*

but there are some moments where I have been so overwhelmed I could not think of what it was exactly that I needed....my mind raced for the words and I began to panic. My sugar was droping, which only clouded my mind more, and for the life of me I could not think of how to tell him that my sugar was not right and I needed a break. Then after one rather forceful whack while I was in this paniced state the a word leaped from my mouth "juice!"

From then on, "juice" was added to my safeword vocabulary. He knew exactly what I ment and what I needed and what was going on. Maybe it was a bit more direct than a color, but I've had the same experiences and used "yellow" before an ended in the same results...get oj quick!

I don't think I've heard anyone here say that they use safewords insted of comunicating durring a scene...."yellow" ...."what's wrong"...."my arm's asleep can we change positions?".....but rather "yellow" is usually best translated to "something's wrong and I can't think of how to tell you right now so please stop and check on me so we can figure this out".

but that's my take on it, and how things work in my world.

 

[JMohegan]

I think when we are talking about safewords, there seems to be this thought that safewords are used insted of anything else.

Ha ha, yes! I sometimes have the impression that people think that too.

I know when my head is clear, and I have an issue, foot falling asleep or what ever, I will say...."um...my foot's asleep, can we remedy that or do you intend it to be that way?" *giggles*

A great example of realistic play.

Delivered with humor, no less!

 

[the captians wench]

Ha ha, yes! I sometimes have the impression that people think that too.

A great example of realistic play.

Delivered with humor, no less!

I assure you that's almost a direct quote. *giggles*

I will also assure you that it most deffinitly earns me a nice slap on my ass before my foot would be rubbed back to life. *giggles*

 

[myinnerslut]

I know when my head is clear, and I have an issue, foot falling asleep or what ever, I will say...."um...my foot's asleep, can we remedy that or do you intend it to be that way?" *giggles*
.

i had a very similiar situation two nights ago. i was holding a position and my muscles started screaming at me from not moving and putting so much stress on them. i spoke up and said that my legs were hurting and why, followed by a polite "may i please move them" the answer was no, i knew that he intended me to feel this way, i accepted it and moved foward.

i only have the one safeword which puts a stop to everything. i supposed what happened the other night is the equivlant of my "yellow" if i were to put it into colors. i am encouraged to share my issues and if he wants to fix them he will. i f he doesnt, i deal. if things move foward and i think that im going to tear a muscle or ligament or snap my ankle, ill safeword. (and to make thigns clear, he would never intend to snap my ankle or tear my muscles so its not like im avoiding what he wants to do, i am doing my job to protect myself from unintended and serious (semi)permanant harm).

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I think when we are talking about safewords, there seems to be this thought that safewords are used insted of anything else.

I know when my head is clear, and I have an issue, foot falling asleep or what ever, I will say...."um...my foot's asleep, can we remedy that or do you intend it to be that way?" *giggles*

but there are some moments where I have been so overwhelmed I could not think of what it was exactly that I needed....my mind raced for the words and I began to panic. My sugar was droping, which only clouded my mind more, and for the life of me I could not think of how to tell him that my sugar was not right and I needed a break. Then after one rather forceful whack while I was in this paniced state the a word leaped from my mouth "juice!"

From then on, "juice" was added to my safeword vocabulary. He knew exactly what I ment and what I needed and what was going on. Maybe it was a bit more direct than a color, but I've had the same experiences and used "yellow" before an ended in the same results...get oj quick!

I don't think I've heard anyone here say that they use safewords insted of comunicating durring a scene...."yellow" ...."what's wrong"...."my arm's asleep can we change positions?".....but rather "yellow" is usually best translated to "something's wrong and I can't think of how to tell you right now so please stop and check on me so we can figure this out".

but that's my take on it, and how things work in my world.

you are not alone. that is how it works in my world as well. if my foot is fallign asleep, or the rope is cutting into me, or the cuffs are cutting off my circulation, i will just come out and say, "uh..Sir, could You loosen such and such, it's a little too tight" not to mention almost all the way through the scene He is asking me if things are alright. but it's that time that i hit sub space and words don't come to me easily to where i could say a whole sentence, that's when the safeword comes in. though i've never had it use it yet, i have come close and i was thankful it was there "just in case"

 

[ownedsubgal]

I don't think I've heard anyone here say that they use safewords insted of comunicating durring a scene...."yellow" ...."what's wrong"...."my arm's asleep can we change positions?".....but rather "yellow" is usually best translated to "something's wrong and I can't think of how to tell you right now so please stop and check on me so we can figure this out".

but that's my take on it, and how things work in my world.

well a scene is one thing, a punishment is something altogether different. i can't speak from experience or knowledge on the use of safewords during a scene or "play", as that's not something i've engaged in. i've also never experienced anything close to subspace, so i'm fine with taking your and others word on it that sometimes one can be so deep in space or whatever that they cannot think or communicate coherently, and a single key word or phrase is easier to utter.

but in regards to punishment, i would assume that the same rules that govern scene and playtime don't apply. no get outta jail free pass. take it, suffer, and if absolutely 100% necessary, communicate an issue the Dominant may not be aware of. but regardless, suffer the punishment.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I prefer English too. I don't like to play with people who get sooooo incapacitated that they can't manage "I think I might faint" - signalling is good when I hood 'em up.

That seems like potential manipulation to me, I never liked it - the "I'm sooooo fargone I can't speak." My impulse is "we're gonna work on that." I mean I can trance out with the best of them, and I still feel like it's my job to speak up.

actually the honest truth is when i'm suffering a punishment, i can't communicate at all. i couldn't say "red" any easier than i could say "my neck's about to snap." when i know i've screwed up, and he's angry, disappointed...i welcome the punishment, because i know i deserve it and need to suffer for my errors. however my issue is, in my mind, i've never suffered enough. which means that all manner of gruesome or irreversible things could occur, things my Master may not intend, while i'm being punished. simply because i kinda zone out and go to my secret garden during those moments, and in that state i couldn't care less what happens to me.

 

[the captians wench]

well a scene is one thing, a punishment is something altogether different. i can't speak from experience or knowledge on the use of safewords during a scene or "play", as that's not something i've engaged in. i've also never experienced anything close to subspace, so i'm fine with taking your and others word on it that sometimes one can be so deep in space or whatever that they cannot think or communicate coherently, and a single key word or phrase is easier to utter.

but in regards to punishment, i would assume that the same rules that govern scene and playtime don't apply. no get outta jail free pass. take it, suffer, and if absolutely 100% necessary, communicate an issue the Dominant may not be aware of. but regardless, suffer the punishment.

That's all fine and dandy, in theory, here's the problem. I'm hypoglicemic, my sugar will have the same reaction whether it's fun happy time, or punishment, in fact it's likely to drop more quickly because of how upset I am for failing. I'm not talking about stoping a punishment because I think I've had enough, I'm talking about comunicating a need in the only way I can some times. Hell I've called "juice" in the vanilla world when my sugar gets too low. This isn't a sub space thing, I litterally can not think when my sugar hits a certain point. And while my example is very specific, I'm sure there are others out there. Yes I do agree that there should be no free pass on punishment, but at the same time I need to know that I can comunicate in what ever means I need to. As much as I tend to ignore the fact that my "juice" is a form of a safeword, I can't really deny it completely.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

well a scene is one thing, a punishment is something altogether different. i can't speak from experience or knowledge on the use of safewords during a scene or "play", as that's not something i've engaged in. i've also never experienced anything close to subspace, so i'm fine with taking your and others word on it that sometimes one can be so deep in space or whatever that they cannot think or communicate coherently, and a single key word or phrase is easier to utter.

but in regards to punishment, i would assume that the same rules that govern scene and playtime don't apply. no get outta jail free pass. take it, suffer, and if absolutely 100% necessary, communicate an issue the Dominant may not be aware of. but regardless, suffer the punishment.

maybe in some people's worlds, but not everyone's. as with everything else it depends on the people involved. in this case He has stated time and time again that He wanted to give her that option because He didn't want to harm. as long as He (the Dominant) was ok with it and even encouraged her to use it, well then in my eyes it is still most defiantly D/s...would it work for me and Master? i'm betting not, though if i were being injured by Him while He was punishing me, or i thought He was going to far and He wasn't realizing He was going to far, i really think i probably would yell out my safe word, if for no other reason than to bring Him back to reality and "ground" Him so to speak so He could see what was going on, however, He doesn't punish me in anger and most of my punishments are not physical. *shrugs* different strokes for different folks.....

 

[alexanna]

My arousal and appreciation have always been enhanced immeasurably by the fact that a partner could safeword any time.... but doesn't. That she could opt out, cop out, or walk out the door at any moment.... but chooses to stay.

When not used, the safeword option has always functioned as a thumbs up for my inner control freak. Heady confirmation that it's not force, but free will, that holds her in place.

We have a safeword but I already feel really weird about using it and have not as yet. It makes me uncomfortable to have it. I realize your thumbs up comment was more about her willingness to be there but I also worry that my not using my safeword can be interpreted as a thumbs up that I am cool with what is happening. I don't want the fact that I have not safeworded to be interpreted that I am cool with what is happening. When something is scary I tell him in plain english while its happening and he continues or he doesn't. We talk afterward about how I might feel doing that same thing again and the next scene he might push me there again or he might not.

It was incredible to me when we started playing how much power I felt when he gave me a safeword. I definitely feel like we are in training wheels mode and that someday, hopefully soon, we can take those training wheels off and he will take full responsibility. I understand the necessity right now while he is figuring things out but I have already told him I question my ability to use it and that he probably cannot count on it.

If I were to say that we are going to start using a system of safewords, I am positive that I would get a mixed reaction of laughter or of fear. Because she relies more on me and my control than her own when she is on the edge or in such a high states of arousal. She knows that I push her to the point of being out of control. To tell her that we are going to rely on safewords would certainly send mixed signals to her at this point. To her this would be me transfering responsiblity to her.

This is definitely the level I wish to achieve. I want to relinquish responsibility and control entirely and I cannot do that if I have a safeword that I KNOW will stop the scene.

This also means he has to trust me to a degree. He has to trust me not to overreact if he makes a mistake and takes things to far, not to get all bent out of shape about it. He also has to trust me to tell him if I feel like I might get injured in a way I don't think he is intending.

I want to be able to trust him to check on me during play to make sure I'm okay. I don't want to constantly have to be thinking "am I okay, should I safeword?" I just want to think about how to process what is happening not whether or not it needs to stop happening.