After punishment care

[northwoods_sub]

while i do understand what you are saying, and mostly agree, there are still parts i don't agree with.



i don't know about the person you were responding to, but for me, Yes, i'm saying that i would not safe word in a punishment even if it became excessive. Master knows me well enough, and reads me well enough to know when He's going too far. i have never had to safe word even in a scene and trust me our scenes are pretty intense. the only time i would safe word during a punishment is if He was so far gone in His anger that i feared he was going to HARM me..but He doesn't punish when He's angry so i doubt that will ever happen.

I have safeworded in a scene. I had reached a limit and just couldn't take anymore, however my limits are more emotional than physical.
When it comes to punishment however, I have to agree that it is not the place for safewords. A few weeks back I got a bit bitchy in the middle of a scene, he decided to remedy my attitude problem immediately, and I ended up getting injured. It was not his intent to hurt me and it was not a major injury, (severely strained my hamstring and groin muscle) but walking was miserable for about a week.
Now, we in the middle of the punishment had no idea that I would be in so much pain afterwards and he took care of me while I was recovering. Even with the injury I would not have safeworded had I known it would happen. I had disobeyed (seriously) and was due my punishment. I took it, recovered from it and learned from it.

 

[the captians wench]

...have to say that i'm not understanding the logic behind safewording during a punishment either, but then i'm in a M/s dynamic where anything even approaching a safeword would be inappropriate in any circumstance. the purpose of a punishment is for the submissive/slave to suffer the consequences of her misbehavior or disobedience, if she has the power to end that suffering at any point then how exactly is it D/s?

i have to admit, I'm a bit on the fence with this one.

In the past I've always been one to believe that safewording durring a punishment was a mortal sin. But in the example Homburg gives, I see where it may have been nessisary as it broke the scene for both parties involved, not just the sub saying "you know what, I don't think that I should have to be punished, and i don't feel like taking anymore so I'm going to red out of it".

So I do see how it can be useful, if the person using the safe word is not already istablished as one who would use a safe word just to get out of something that she doesn't feel like doing.

It is D/s or rather it is a power exchange to some degree, deffinitly not to the extent that ownedsubgal discribes her relationship to be, but not everyone is ready, or wants that degree of power exchange. As long as the relationship is working, i wouldn't question what is and isn't D/s....it's not like there's one certain way to do it or anything.

 

[Homburg]

...have to say that i'm not understanding the logic behind safewording during a punishment either, but then i'm in a M/s dynamic where anything even approaching a safeword would be inappropriate in any circumstance. the purpose of a punishment is for the submissive/slave to suffer the consequences of her misbehavior or disobedience, if she has the power to end that suffering at any point then how exactly is it D/s?

....

I'm having a hard time not reading a lot of these posts as "subbier than thou" posts. You don't like it. Cool. Good for you. I've explained that _I_ suggested it to her. I explained why I did so. I've even provided examples of situations where anyone with a brain would safeword during a punishment (Dom going too far out of anger, etc).

But questioning as to how it is D/s? That's about fucking judgemental. You don't use safewords. I find that practice to be exceedingly unwise. But, barring situations like this when I am riled at being judged by someone that doesn't fucking know me, I wouldn't say jack about it. It's your little corner of the D/s spectrum. Have a ball. But to judge me and mine because I care about my sub enough to realise when she is hurting beyond how I want her to hurt? You're more D/s than me, right?

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i have to admit, I'm a bit on the fence with this one.

In the past I've always been one to believe that safewording durring a punishment was a mortal sin. But in the example Homburg gives, I see where it may have been nessisary as it broke the scene for both parties involved, not just the sub saying "you know what, I don't think that I should have to be punished, and i don't feel like taking anymore so I'm going to red out of it".

So I do see how it can be useful, if the person using the safe word is not already istablished as one who would use a safe word just to get out of something that she doesn't feel like doing.

It is D/s or rather it is a power exchange to some degree, deffinitly not to the extent that ownedsubgal discribes her relationship to be, but not everyone is ready, or wants that degree of power exchange. As long as the relationship is working, i wouldn't question what is and isn't D/s....it's not like there's one certain way to do it or anything.

exactly what i was going to reply, only you said it so much better than i would have. in the case that homburg described it made sense to me, and i'm glad that it worked for both of them as that's what matters. but when we start saying things like because you don't do it like i do "how is that D/s" i think that's where the line needs to be drawn and people need to remember not everyone lives this lifestyle the same way. it's fine to give your opinion but to question someone else's relationship dynamic is wrong. and i think He explained very well how it was still D/s to them.....

 

[ownedsubgal]

....

I'm having a hard time not reading a lot of these posts as "subbier than thou" posts. You don't like it. Cool. Good for you. I've explained that _I_ suggested it to her. I explained why I did so. I've even provided examples of situations where anyone with a brain would safeword during a punishment (Dom going too far out of anger, etc).

But questioning as to how it is D/s? That's about fucking judgemental. You don't use safewords. I find that practice to be exceedingly unwise. But, barring situations like this when I am riled at being judged by someone that doesn't fucking know me, I wouldn't say jack about it. It's your little corner of the D/s spectrum. Have a ball. But to judge me and mine because I care about my sub enough to realise when she is hurting beyond how I want her to hurt? You're more D/s than me, right?

whoa, no reason to get hostile. it's not "subbier than thou" or not recognizing the fact that different strokes work for different folks. it's the fact that D/s dynamics...of any flavor, mind you, not simply the one i find tastiest...as i understand them entail one person submitting to the will of another (to what degree or extent varying from one relationship to the next), and if in a particular union the Dominant has the right to punish, it is he (or she) alone who controls that. i understand your not wanting a submissive to suffer more than you intend, however there are other ways of avoiding and/or dealing with that which don't involve the use of a safeword or a submissive being able to in any way control her own punishment.

btw, "judgemental" goes both ways. but then i'm just some brainless freak who doesn't use safewords. *shrug*

 

[Blushing Bottom]

I would like to echo these thoughts in some form. I'm not the type that need aftercare I can count the number of time I have been disciplined on one hand but as cw puts it so nicely here the discipline is the aftercare. Knowing I have displeased him in such a way that he feels a need to discipline me is more punishing than any cane, paddle strap or what ever method one chose to discipline with. I have already thoroughly beat myself severely and the act of discipline reminds me he cares enough to take the time to help me see the error of my ways.

Right and there are threads here about aftercare. But I know that my punishments are usually very taxing, as they are ment to be, and while I probably don't need a lot more than a "okay it's over you're forgiven, I love you", if I get something extra it is apreciated and seen as the generous gift that it is. I know a lot of us are a lot harder on our selves than any one else is on us, so sometimes the punishment is in itself a kind of after care. It's these other reasons for aftercare that I am curious to explore in this thread.

 

[Homburg]

btw, "judgemental" goes both ways. but then i'm just some brainless freak who doesn't use safewords. *shrug*

This comment is laughable. "I find that practice to be exceedingly unwise" =/= "brainless freak"

I am editing out the rest. It's not worth it. Usually, I wouldn't do that. Better to post and take my lumps for it, but I have been appraised of the fact that you live in a different world from the one I inhabit, and thus the rest of what I posted is immaterial.

You apparently are more D/s than me. Rock on with your bad self.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

whoa, no reason to get hostile. it's not "subbier than thou" or not recognizing the fact that different strokes work for different folks. it's the fact that D/s dynamics...of any flavor, mind you, not simply the one i find tastiest...as i understand them entail one person submitting to the will of another (to what degree or extent varying from one relationship to the next), and if in a particular union the Dominant has the right to punish, it is he (or she) alone who controls that. i understand your not wanting a submissive to suffer more than you intend, however there are other ways of avoiding and/or dealing with that which don't involve the use of a safeword or a submissive being able to in any way control her own punishment.

btw, "judgemental" goes both ways. but then i'm just some brainless freak who doesn't use safewords. *shrug*

osg we've gone around before and i completely understand why Homburg felt like you were being judgmental of his relationship when you ask the question "how is that D/s" when you're replying to something He says works for Him and His. seems to me you were questioning the dynamics of His relationship. and if her safe wording during a punishment is what HE wanted her to do well then how is she "controlling" her punishment? you do come off as "subbier than thou" alot and i know i'm not the only person on this board that thinks that very thing, though i may be the only one who is not afraid to say those very words.

the lifestyle you live is very much different than most and i think the way you choose to live it sometimes clouds your vision of the way others live theirs. meaning, you alot of times will say things and question someone's dynamic in their relationship because it doesn't fit with what you think is right. but i also think everyone is guilty of this every now and then, it just seems you do it alot. now let the defending of osg begin, because i've been jumped on before for giving my opinion on your posts..*shrugs* it's just how i feel......and considering i'm in a shitty mood this afternoon i'm not really in the mood to sugar coat things and make sure i don't offend anyone.....(not that i'm trying to offend either, just giving my opinion on how i see things )

 

[Homburg]

To lil slave rose and the captian's wench, thank you both. I realise that we are not in the same area on this argument, but I appreciate the dicussion, candor, and comments insofar as whether or not it is D/s.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

To lil slave rose and the captian's wench, thank you both. I realise that we are not in the same area on this argument, but I appreciate the dicussion, candor, and comments insofar as whether or not it is D/s.

you're welcome, and just because i don't agree with You completely on this subject doesn't mean i think anyone has the right to question your relationship because of how you do things. after you explained why You let her safe word, it did make sense to me but again i'm still not sure i would have been able to safe word as i know my punishments are punishments and i NEED them to have the closure to the offense....but to each their own and if it works/worked for You and Yours then that's all that matters....period.

 

[the captians wench]

you're welcome, and just because i don't agree with You completely on this subject doesn't mean i think anyone has the right to question your relationship because of how you do things. after you explained why You let her safe word, it did make sense to me but again i'm still not sure i would have been able to safe word as i know my punishments are punishments and i NEED them to have the closure to the offense....but to each their own and if it works/worked for You and Yours then that's all that matters....period.

At this point in my life, I can see myself doing it, but only because I've been in the position where I was afraid to safe word....tho what I thought the consiquences were I can not tell you. I don't like that feeling, that feeling that this is going some where I don't want to go, don't need to go, and is beyond what is safe for me for physical or emotional reasons and there is nothing I can do about it. I'm not talking about normal pushing limits, I'm talking about wondering if I'll end up in some sort of medical facility because of this, and how to explain what happened when I can't tell them that I allowd this.

I can't stress enough here how important it is for those of us who walk that fine line of what abuse is to recognize when things are moving from fun happy dark perverted times, to something just dark and deffinitly not fun.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I wouldn't think twice about safewording during a punishment if I thought my safety- mental or physical-was at risk. I would guess that my Dom wouldn't want it any other way. He has no desire to harm me or to cause me lasting pain. Yes, I am a submissive but I am human first. I don't see the difference between punishment and any other time when it come to communicating that I feel I am in danger. And safe words are called safewords for a reason. JMHO

 

[Netzach]

I'd be really taken aback if H decided to safeword on me for any reason whatsoever other than someone's imminent death or a full on psychotic break. Punishment, scene, or just walking down the street. I have it, but I really don't expect to ever hear it. "Hey PLEASE stop I'm gonna pass out" or "wax scares me" are more useful to me than "red" is anyway.

It's about "I feel imminently unsafe" not "I'm really panicky" or "I don't like this" or "this scares me" - it's about "Mistress, are you sure you mean to cut that off?" at MOST.

I don't want to get into a giant polarization thing. But I don't think osg's all that full on nuts or arrogant about her submission. I think a lot of people are really craving M/s status when it just doesn't fit and really get nuts if someone points that out. It's not osg who's making this a contest of the badassness, as I see it, yanno? It's people who are buying into the idea that more power exchange = better. Personally, I *don't* think more = better for me, and I will be the first to admit that in the case of my husband I'm more interested in the egalitarian parts of our dynamic than non, and in the case of my slave, I'm still the kind of person who feels beholden to what he likes at times and probably never will ditch on that as much as either of us might like.

I'm still a pretty damn respectable player and relatively evil and I have three men fawning all over me, so I must be OK. No great loss, this not being the most powerful of all D's or certainly being the most submissive of all s's.

And I'm sure it's perfectly fine D/s but I also question on where it fits into M/s. I question whether H and I are M/s at times, but I think it fits. He benefits from my concern and upkeep RARELY.

In terms of M/s, I expect to hear it literally in 1. life and death 2. If H honestly, honestly TO GOD believes I'm about to damage him in ways I don't intend. Yeah that involves second guessing me, and sometimes that might backfire.

 

[Homburg]

And I'm sure it's perfectly fine D/s but I also question on where it fits into M/s. I question whether H and I are M/s at times, but I think it fits. He benefits from my concern and upkeep RARELY.

If the statement had been "M/s" instead of "D/s" I would not have had a real problem with it. We do not have an M/s dynamic. I don't want that at this point, and don't claim it.

I'm not into management, so I don't want a slave. Neither she nor I are turned on by that word.

D/s is a big tent. M/s is a section of that tent. If someone question why I'm in a particular section, well, that's worth discussing, but asking me why I'm in the tent at all?

 

[JMohegan]

...have to say that i'm not understanding the logic behind safewording during a punishment either, but then i'm in a M/s dynamic where anything even approaching a safeword would be inappropriate in any circumstance. the purpose of a punishment is for the submissive/slave to suffer the consequences of her misbehavior or disobedience, if she has the power to end that suffering at any point then how exactly is it D/s?

Nice to see you again, osg.

That's a really good question. My opinion follows, and applies to both punishment or play.

If the safeword means: "Okay, I got the message, I think that's enough now".... or.... "I'm really, really ready for this to be over!".... or..... "God, he's being unreasonable by continuing this long"...... or...... "I didn't think he'd be mad enough to do this!"..... or anything else along those lines, then I don't see the exchange as D/s.

However, a safeword that means: "I think my arm is breaking!", or "I'm two seconds from a mental meltdown", or anything else indicating impending serious & sustained harm, is totally consistent with D/s in my book.

 

[JMohegan]

....

I'm having a hard time not reading a lot of these posts as "subbier than thou" posts. You don't like it. Cool. Good for you. I've explained that _I_ suggested it to her. I explained why I did so. I've even provided examples of situations where anyone with a brain would safeword during a punishment (Dom going too far out of anger, etc).

But questioning as to how it is D/s? That's about fucking judgemental. You don't use safewords. I find that practice to be exceedingly unwise. But, barring situations like this when I am riled at being judged by someone that doesn't fucking know me, I wouldn't say jack about it. It's your little corner of the D/s spectrum. Have a ball. But to judge me and mine because I care about my sub enough to realise when she is hurting beyond how I want her to hurt? You're more D/s than me, right?

On the spectrum of control (ceding and accepting), osg is much "subbier" than any partner I have ever had, or would wish to have. Her Master is much "domlier" than I have ever been, or ever will be.

Those are observations, not judgments. Simple statements of preference and sexual need. Neither better nor worse.

Chill.

 

[Homburg]

On the spectrum of control (ceding and accepting), osg is much "subbier" than any partner I have ever had, or would wish to have. Her Master is much "domlier" than I have ever been, or ever will be.

Those are observations, not judgments. Simple statements of preference and sexual need. Neither better nor worse.

Chill.

To paraphrase you in another thread directed at me, thank you for catching up to the point that this thread reached a day ago.

 

[JMohegan]

To paraphrase you in another thread directed at me, thank you for catching up to the point that this thread reached a day ago.

I repeat.

Chill.

 

[Homburg]

I repeat.

Chill.

The meaning of my previous statement was not clear?

 

[JMohegan]

The meaning of my previous statement was not clear?

Honestly, no.

The last post before mine this morning ended with you asking Netzach: "If someone question why I'm in a particular section, well, that's worth discussing, but asking me why I'm in the tent at all?"

With that question, you still sounded defensive and insulted by what transpired. Hence my suggestion. Chill.

 

[Homburg]

Honestly, no.

The last post before mine this morning ended with you asking Netzach: "If someone question why I'm in a particular section, well, that's worth discussing, but asking me why I'm in the tent at all?"

With that question, you still sounded defensive and insulted by what transpired. Hence my suggestion. Chill.

Meh, I am not particulary insulted at this stage. I had a couple of people rather politely inform me of osg's particular situation in PM, thus my edit. I was not being sarcastic when I said we live in different worlds, and that she is more D/s than me. I carry no irriatation towards her at this point.

As to defensive, *shrug*. I'm fond of discourse, which is a nice way of saying that I can be argumentative. This does not translate to 'defensive', but the medium we are discussing this on is one that scrubs emotional context from the message, and I've not posted here long enough for people to know what it looks like when I am agitated and being pissy.

Thank you for the honest answer and explanation. I don't always have the market cornered on clarity.

 

[RJMasters]

Ah, it can go to places where you may beg to stop it even if not using a safeword, and live with the effects of not having it stopped for more than a day or 2. My last punishment left me with physical reminders for a few weeks, and I suspect a couple of twinges I now get from time to time are also as a result of that time....and he was not even angry, just determined I wouldn't forget again...it worked.

Catalina

Not that I am all rah rah over this as it doesn't sound like it was a fun expereince for you, I do want to mention there is a certain amount of apprciation in you sharing this.

To me this is what clearly delinates the difference in looking at D/s, M/s as something you do from scene to scene and something you live as your life.

One has more of an opt out plan where the other is about past the point of no return.

---

Most know my thoughts on being ssc. I think for those who experience D/s or BDSM from scene to scene kinda of thing, safewords are good, or if you are in the position of playing with a new person in top/bottom type play often like at a club or play party or even practicing a profession.

Honestly my views about safewords has changed a lot over the years I have been here. Surprisingly it has been mostly because of me learning I can trust myself more and because I see safewords conversations and debates being more acedemic in nature.

Safewords, are a lot like training wheels when learning to ride a bike. I remember when I was learning to ride, my focus was on the joy of being able to ride the bike, not on the training wheels. They served a purpose until I could develop enough skill and confidence. One day the training wheels are taken off, and yes the risks or the potential of crashing and getting hurt are much greater and higher but the level of freedom gained is indescribable.

I think telling someone like osg or Catalina they should have safewords makes about as much sense as telling an olympic swimmer they should wear inflatable arm duckies to ensure they don't drown.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

I had wondered when you would share your wise words with us. Thank you RJ.

Not that I am all rah rah over this as it doesn't sound like it was a fun expereince for you, I do want to mention there is a certain amount of apprciation in you sharing this.

To me this is what clearly delinates the difference in looking at D/s, M/s as something you do from scene to scene and something you live as your life.

One has more of an opt out plan where the other is about past the point of no return.

---

Most know my thoughts on being ssc. I think for those who experience D/s or BDSM from scene to scene kinda of thing, safewords are good, or if you are in the position of playing with a new person in top/bottom type play often like at a club or play party or even practicing a profession.

Honestly my views about safewords has changed a lot over the years I have been here. Surprisingly it has been mostly because of me learning I can trust myself more and because I see safewords conversations and debates being more acedemic in nature.

Safewords, are a lot like training wheels when learning to ride a bike. I remember when I was learning to ride, my focus was on the joy of being able to ride the bike, not on the training wheels. They served a purpose until I could develop enough skill and confidence. One day the training wheels are taken off, and yes the risks or the potential of crashing and getting hurt are much greater and higher but the level of freedom gained is indescribable.

I think telling someone like osg or Catalina they should have safewords makes about as much sense as telling an olympic swimmer they should wear inflatable arm duckies to ensure they don't drown.

 

[JMohegan]

Thank you for the honest answer and explanation. I don't always have the market cornered on clarity.

Nor do I.

Thanks for your courtesy in this response.

 

[Homburg]

Safewords, are a lot like training wheels when learning to ride a bike. I remember when I was learning to ride, my focus was on the joy of being able to ride the bike, not on the training wheels. They served a purpose until I could develop enough skill and confidence. One day the training wheels are taken off, and yes the risks or the potential of crashing and getting hurt are much greater and higher but the level of freedom gained is indescribable.

This I can understand. I am still at that point where training wheels are a good idea, I recognise that, and I have no problem admitting to it.

I think telling someone like osg or Catalina they should have safewords makes about as much sense as telling an olympic swimmer they should wear inflatable arm duckies to ensure they don't drown.

*nod* I see that now. I was speaking solely from my own point of view when I said that, and tried to make that clear in later posts when I said that she lives in a different world from me.

--

Nor do I.

Thanks for your courtesy in this response.

My apologies for being snippy in the initial response.