Ambition

[My Erotic Trail]

holy cow... slow down, don't get all excited <bigrin

Art I am talking "Ill comments", that was your most recent accusation. I am not as bad as some Art? You know better than that.

"Yes I do," (~_~)

makes it pointless to try and find one comment... huh !

You can search and search. You know you will have a very difficult time finding the "Ill comments" you accuse me of. Harsh criticism... I was harsh on one of Senna Jawa's haiku, but think I offered some good suggestions and I don't think I hurt his feelings much. Amid all of Joseki Ko's haiku attempts, there may be one harsh criticism, but that is among five or six very positive criticisms, and again, he was not hurt I assure you.

well there ya go... <grin
Jim, I will admit you leave good comments, especially the reviews, you put ten times more into a review than any one I have ever seen here and I remember when I first did them I mentioned every single poem for a very long time. <bigrin and if I think real hard I might have left one, (I remember it)

So Art, even those comments are based upon the poem and in no way can be considered "Ill comments". Why do you continually claim that I am making these "Ill comments"?

Is it just me or did you just give two more examples ^

you know jim, it is not always how many as much as it is the one many times.


and you'll have to define 'continually' and the word 'these' ...
the original quote refered to ... the comment...

this is expanding? (~_*)

 

[Decayed Angel]

Is it just me or did you just give two more examples ^

I gave you two examples (not two more) of a harsh criticism something very different (based on your own definition) from the "Ill comments" you talk of. These were not attacks...

Continually: constant, again and again, repeated... you remember or do you make these accusations so often that you lose track?

You are playing games here, somehow justifying your refusal to admit you are wrong and apologize. But Art, knowing you as I do, I did not expect anything different.

 

[Decayed Angel]

I see a pattern here... you have three people tell you that you have left 'ill' comments. Jim I would love to provide 'that' comment... I searched <grin you haven't posted a comment under jthserra in while, I looked back two years just to find one with that name, now I know you have probably commented since then but it will take awhile to find one. Here's what I am thinking because I had to re read this thread in order to figure out why your upset...

Echoes_s has pulled her poetry, so the comment in question that prompted Elizabetht to accuse me of "shitting on people's poetry" is not available. I did find Echoes_s response to me in the thread:

Jim! Good lord no, please do not stop!!! If I haven’t said it before enough, I so much value your help, your honesty, your input...everyone's here. There is always room for growth, always need for learning and tightening with poetry.
In concerns to haiku, you didn’t waste your breath on me, that I did read and learn from what you said, and will be applying it. It hasn’t stopped me, or deflated my zest to write haiku, only inspiring me to charge forward and from now on I will be reading your writings on this and striving for the proper forms with the best way that I know, and only request with sincerity your guidance and honesty, hoping to see this and truly appreciating the time and effort you do take. You have helped me so much with all of my poetry right from the beginning. I admire and am awed by your work, I respect your wisdom and look for your honesty. You have given me so much with this, that I cannot express my gratitude effectively to you.

Everyone here has and only honesty of opinion can help any poet.

I have every intention of continuing now to expand on Haiku in proper format and style now that I have broken, played and enjoyed this style of poetry. It has a complex simplicity, beauty and grace.

Do you really think a harsh or ill comment would have drawn this response from the poet I commented to?

I asked Elizabetht to find a poem I shitted on with my comments, just as I have asked you again and again. No, this is not expanding, it has just been continual, and frankly I am tired of it.

Apologize or I strike you from my Christmas Card list. You know Santa has been watching you and he knows...

 

[Decayed Angel]

"Again...
not really haiku, go to google and enter zappai and take a look at the article "Toward an Aesthetic for English-Language Haiku" by Lee Gurga.

jim [ read more]"


" Nice short poem
02/09/04 by jthserra
Not really haiku. Considering the form, perhaps a senryu.

jim "


Two harsh comments to Joseki Ko...

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Also, it is rare that I talk much in the forums anymore and I wanted to get my post count up to 100 so I could show you the origin of the Decayed Angel.



jim : )

wow, Jim... you lost tons of weight and cut your red hair <bigrin... watch your swords temperment. Origin? <chuckleboned

I am glad I could help you achieve your 100 posts (~_~)

 

[Decayed Angel]

I am glad I could help you achieve your 100 posts (~_~)

Now my only ambition is to receive an apology from you...

 

[Liar]

"Again...
not really haiku, go to google and enter zappai and take a look at the article "Toward an Aesthetic for English-Language Haiku" by Lee Gurga.

jim [ read more]"


" Nice short poem
02/09/04 by jthserra
Not really haiku. Considering the form, perhaps a senryu.

jim "


Two harsh comments to Joseki Ko...

And, uh, I don't know if I could call them harsh at all. Didn't say anything bad about either poem. Said, in fact, that one of them was nice. Just that it wasn't, technically, haiku.

If I write a waltz, but call it a rumba, is it harsh to point out that it's a waltz?

 

[twelveoone]

I like that <grin... ambition...

Don't fret... the disgruntled 1201-snail-anon and other names (his alias's)
his ambition is to get under other's skin.
I like the saying that 'others can not drive you crazy unless you give them the keys.' I won't give them to him (again) <grin...

jealous bones may riddle his ambitions (~_~) like my mother always says, 'kill'em with kindness for even a dog has the right to bark'

What the fuck are you on about?
You are the low life claiming I left a comment, that I never left. Because of your ambition.

Let's talk slander.

Never mind...not fucking worth it

But does your mother know you do this shit?

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I wanted to get my post count up to 100 so I could show you the origin of the Decayed Angel.

this is a perfect example as to what I was saying about ambition and how it changes... your 'goal' was to get 100 posts but when that was achieved you set your sights on another goal.

Evolving ambition, the desire to better ourselves. One goal at a time.

 

[Decayed Angel]

this is a perfect example as to what I was saying about ambition and how it changes... your 'goal' was to get 100 posts but when that was achieved you set your sights on another goal.

Evolving ambition, the desire to better ourselves. One goal at a time.

One of my goals was to get 100 posts, I still have many others that I can persue simultanously. The goals change, the ambition remains the same.

And the apology...

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

WOW! feathers seem to be settling down again. good - i had to take a minor break after all that...

MNS - ? sorry, don't follow what you are saying here. are you calling me a poor country bumpkin - in act? not. neither, poor, bumpkin, or acting. if i misunderstood you, my appologies again. (i often romanticize the country life - simple, smelling of cow manure ; )

what did you say about mine? been looking for your mark anywhere near me and haven't found it yet. are you one of the anonymous persons that emailed me to say that everything i have ever written was shit? : ) i get a lot of those so i tend to ignore them. ?

as for others who may or may not be acting, i do appreciate the encouragement that i have been given, whether it was sheer sunshine or false light, it made me work harder - so that can't be a bad thing.

--hks

Sorry, I didn't see this. The poor bumpkin act refered to the tell tale trail. One of his tactics is to exploit this, confuse real criticism (I think some of the exchange in this thread illustrates this) with shit comments like you received. Claim or infer some better poet will pick on you, and he will defend you.
Too often what new poets see as "sunshine" is the false light. The perfect poem does not exist, it cannot be all things to all people. It never is a black or white issue.
Your job is to distingish it. If you want to write.

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

Now my only ambition is to receive an apology from you...

Catch him dead to rights, he'll never admit he was wrong. I think it has something to do with never learning how to put his underwear on right.
Damn hole is in the back again.
<grin

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I see a pattern here... you have three people tell you that you have left 'ill' comments. Jim I would love to provide 'that' comment... I searched <grin you haven't posted a comment under jthserra in while, I looked back two years just to find one with that name, now I know you have probably commented since then but it will take awhile to find one. Here's what I am thinking because I had to re read this thread in order to figure out why your upset...





I just had this conversation with Tzara... what is considered an ill comment and what is criticism, so you look at it as constructive criticism while some take it as 'HARSH' or ill... the point is we are not seeing eye to eye on styles of comments. Others felt you were harsh as well...


and your claiming this...



obviously others see your comments in a different light, what is seen as an ill comment or an 'attack' (probably a tad harsh but...) your calling an extinsive effort to say something positive and not hurt some one's feelings, well jim... it didn't work! Not if three people are saying the same thing. I know you don't like the word pompus, but for lack of a better word and NO I am not at this time calling you pompus but does a pompus person know that their pompus? Perhaps you don't know that your comments were harsh! Just as I may not feel I owe you an apology. Especially if I can produce the comment.

I vaguely remember the vague thread, I will see if I can find that comment (I did look) now...
<don't laugh> I will be back but I am going hunting tomorrow and won't be back till late and then again this weekend ....

I will be most honored to continue our conversation (~_~)

I am still searching for the comment I recall and even have a PM to the poet I believe you left the comment on to see if they deleted it because I did not find it in their poem/story list... rather than apologize, because I believe I am correct, I will search for the comment I am speaking of, reaching back two years... which seems pointless since I was stating (originally) what had happened way back when...

 

[darkecstacy]

I have no comment to make about the above but I would like to ask Decayed Angel about the term 'medocrites'. What exactly do you mean by that? Im sorry to ask here but I tried to contact you one to one to ask but couldnt and since you obviously come here it seemed like a good place to find you. Hope that's ok. Cheers

 

[Decayed Angel]

I have no comment to make about the above but I would like to ask Decayed Angel about the term 'medocrites'. What exactly do you mean by that? Im sorry to ask here but I tried to contact you one to one to ask but couldnt and since you obviously come here it seemed like a good place to find you. Hope that's ok. Cheers

Odd you couldn't reach me, my PMs or on and if you grab one of my stories or poems you can email a comment to me. I remember using the term medocrites but can find where I used it so I can see the context I used it in.

 

[Decayed Angel]

I am still searching for the comment I recall and even have a PM to the poet I believe you left the comment on to see if they deleted it because I did not find it in their poem/story list... rather than apologize, because I believe I am correct, I will search for the comment I am speaking of, reaching back two years... which seems pointless since I was stating (originally) what had happened way back when...

You know Art as much as you have accused me of making "ill comments", shitting on people's poems, attacking poets, low voting, it would seem something... anything would be easy to find.

 

[Decayed Angel]

I have no comment to make about the above but I would like to ask Decayed Angel about the term 'medocrites'. What exactly do you mean by that? Im sorry to ask here but I tried to contact you one to one to ask but couldnt and since you obviously come here it seemed like a good place to find you. Hope that's ok. Cheers

I found the comment where I mentioned medocrites...

the handful of poems submitted today by: SpectaclesInSkirt The rousing echo in Klimt had me peeking back at the new poem page looking for an E, while Necks raised the hair on my neck with some very erotic phrasing and the last few lines alone raise the idea of communication to something so much more... read the lines and bask in the afterglow:

"that the trick to communication is language.
but really, it's the propulsion of breath.
and sounds of loosening.
take into mouth, not out.
good.
oh. "

this is poetry, this is erotica, this is Spectaclesinskirt.


this is some of the best I've seen since seduceros wowed me.

Spectaclesinskirt I hope you stick around some and don't let the medocrites run you off.


Wonderful stuff...

I don't think it is an actual word, it may be one I made up. There is an undercurrent here where when a good poet appears and submits strong, powerful, gifted work and they rightfully receive the applause and attention of other poets here, suddenly they get classified in a specific group (even though they may not know a single member of that group). Then their voting scores drop as other work, mediocre at times, continues receiving what is very often undeserved accolades. When I refer to the medocrites I am talking of the people who work to undermine the gifted poets in either voting, or just the general attitude they receive once they get here. We see the gifted poets then leave for venues where quality work is appreciated and recognized.

When you shun the gifted work, mediocrity flourishes. Those who shun gifted work simply because it is gifted are medocrites.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

You know Art as much as you have accused me of making "ill comments", shitting on people's poems, attacking poets, low voting, it would seem something... anything would be easy to find.

...not if it were deleted <bigrin...

I think, (don't quote me <bigger grin) a comment was made such as ... "praising mediocrity" seems I recall something like that.. earlier in this thread.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I found the comment where I mentioned medocrites...





I don't think it is an actual word, it may be one I made up. There is an undercurrent here where when a good poet appears and submits strong, powerful, gifted work and they rightfully receive the applause and attention of other poets here, suddenly they get classified in a specific group (even though they may not know a single member of that group). Then their voting scores drop as other work, mediocre at times, continues receiving what is very often undeserved accolades. When I refer to the medocrites I am talking of the people who work to undermine the gifted poets in either voting, or just the general attitude they receive once they get here. We see the gifted poets then leave for venues where quality work is appreciated and recognized.

When you shun the gifted work, mediocrity flourishes. Those who shun gifted work simply because it is gifted are medocrites.

I think they call them ... trolls, jim! (~_~)

 

[Decayed Angel]

...not if it were deleted <bigrin...

I think, (don't quote me <bigger grin) a comment was made such as ... "praising mediocrity" seems I recall something like that.. earlier in this thread.

Are you suggesting we should praise mediocrity? Is failure to praise mediocrity harsh? Is praising mediocrity supportive or is it telling the poet, or whomever that perhaps a mediocre effort is all you think they are capable of?

I think it harsh to tell a poet who wrote a mediocre poem that they have written wonderful, perfect stuff. You are basically telling them that you think they have done the best they are capable of. You kill the ambition for improvement of their work, you convince them they should settle for mediocrity. That's a hell of an ambition to settle for mediocrity.

I'm in Arlington, VA now... I'm off to Second Hand Books. My ambition today is to find some good deals on poetry books and perhaps find a few more Japanese Writers I am unfamiliar with.

 

[darkecstacy]

Thank you for responding. I appreciate that. The reason I asked is that the word jarred with me. I think its realisitic to assume that we all discriminate in our appreciation of the work of others. Sometimes we respond subjectively to a piece, at other times stand in awe of the crafting, or both. Some poems will seem weaker, less eloquent, less subtle, whatever. But the word 'medocrites' (doesnt much matter whether or not it exists, it's meaning is obvious) seemed so elitist somehow. But then you were celebrating the talents of a new poet which is clearly a very positive thing to do. I hope you dont mind me asking. Your response has helped me understand what you meant. Again, thank you.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Are you suggesting we should praise mediocrity? Is failure to praise mediocrity harsh? Is praising mediocrity supportive or is it telling the poet, or whomever that perhaps a mediocre effort is all you think they are capable of?

this was your statement... "Praise Mediocrity"
I simply repeated it, <grin

....But the word 'medocrites' (doesnt much matter whether or not it exists, it's meaning is obvious) seemed so elitist somehow.

That's Jim... I think he calls it... 'intellectual elitism'

 

[darkecstacy]

Hey now. I have no interest in entering your 'debate' and would have liked to have spoken to Decayed Angel one on one. I think it's a tightrope we walk when reading the work of others. A passion for poetry as art suggests that we ought to dscriminate but this is tempered by a sense of wanting poetry to speak to as wide an audience as possible, for it to be as inclusive as possible.

Tricky

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Hey now. I have no interest in entering your 'debate' and would have liked to have spoken to Decayed Angel one on one. I think it's a tightrope we walk when reading the work of others. A passion for poetry as art suggests that we ought to dscriminate but this is tempered by a sense of wanting poetry to speak to as wide an audience as possible, for it to be as inclusive as possible.

Tricky

understood (~_~) ...

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I think it harsh to tell a poet who wrote a mediocre poem that they have written wonderful, perfect stuff. You are basically telling them that you think they have done the best they are capable of. You kill the ambition for improvement of their work, you convince them they should settle for mediocrity. That's a hell of an ambition to settle for mediocrity.

I do not know a single poet personality that does not pursue the venues to improve...

a quote from jim... long ago, "why are literotica poems so vague"

#236 12-29-2004, 05:26 PM
jthserra
Thousand Cranes Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Houston Area
Posts: 652


... Regarding lesser poets... I have heard it said that even the greatest poets have really only written 4 or 5, maybe 6 truly great poems. Maybe we all are really lesser poets until we write a few truly great poems.

Of course some poets are still less lesser than others.


jim : )
__________________

...and wasn't it said several times at this site that only two poets in a century are considered great poets or become classic... so that makes the rest of us?

...those who enjoy reading and writing poetry as well!

I did the new poems reviews today and as I read the 33 poems listed, I found a lot of them very good as well as enjoyable (a good list of poems today) and I stated so... so... what is wrong with that!