Ambition

[annaswirls]

Well, lets not confuse constructive comments with 'ill' comments, here is an example of what I would call 'ill' comments...

IT.....
05/21/06 by Anonymous in Tel Aviv, Israel
SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <My Anus>

hmm, well you know, some people would take that as a compliment.

 

[annaswirls]

9oh jeez I think I might get spanked for jumping in on the attack... but I really wanted to thank DA for his thoughtful comments. Rationality is so calming.

Art, had you gotten the point you would not have had to ask which story I was talking about.

And you have not shown me any "Ill comments" that you accuse me of making about people's poetry, you haven't shown where I have attacked anyone in a comment.

There are a lot of gifted poets here who invest their time in helping other poets, with honest feedback and constructive suggestion. These are the people who are consistantly attacked. Consistantly attacked by a so called "peaceful warrior."

Your attacks are not the up front violence professed by the ignorant karate teacher, they are small accusations that are quickly dropped when you are asked to substantiate what you accuse someone of. You wait until the heat fades and then you slip in again, with accusations and innuendo, only to slip away without responding when you are asked to substantiate your claims.

Besides the violent approach, the ignorant, 'Gung-o' karate teacher teaches with a basic lack of understanding of the principles of karate, featuring the glitz of combat but completely missing the subtle differences between the defensive and offensive posture. The true injustice here is that the ignorant teacher passes along his slanted and incorrect viewpoint and information.

As you have professed time and time again, you do not consider yourself a gifted poet, you are just a poetry lover. And yet you ridicule and denounce many of the excellent poets here, because they offer honest commentary on poetry.

You are obviously a novice at zen and yet act like an expert spreading the word in your zen threads. Sure conversation and exploration through the forum is a way to learn, but why not let the grasshopper remain the grasshopper. Invite Tathagata or Liar to touch on the topic, approach zen as if you were searching, not as if you were defining it.

You have a haiku thread that has run for months with the same problems being repeated again and again. Wildsweetone was the only poet consistently writing haiku and it appeared the thread was undermining her understanding of the form. Sure the rollicking in the short poetry is often fun, but just as soon as Blue or Rhymefairy wrote a strong haiku, it was followed by someone else with some abstraction and they responded in kind. How many poets unfamiliar with haiku step in and think, wow, MET has created this thread, this must be haiku. Surely you understand that very little in that thread approaches the beautiful art of haiku.

Art, I have no doubt you are the skilled and masterful, "peaceful warrior" in karate. It is based upon your basic depth of knowledge and experience in the marshal arts. You teach based upon this depth of knowledge and experience.

But, when you come here and approach poetry, where you have admitted you don't have a great depth of knowledge and experience, acting as the skilled and masterful you misrepresent yourself. The people who know poetry here understand that, unfortunately it is the beginning poets who are drawn by gratitutious and often undeserved praise from you. You take them into your fold, convince them the honest comments from some of the gifted poets here are rude and jealous rants, insulating them from the knowledgable advice, recommendation and suggestion that will help them become stronger.

You see Art, while in karate, you are the "peaceful warrior", here you have been the 'Gung-o' instructor, not instructing violence, but propagating your own misunderstanding and lack of experience in poetry. Unfortunately, as the 'Gung-o' poet here you don't accept other's approaches to supporting poetry you attack it.

That is the point you missed, you continue to miss, or at least I assume you miss. Perhaps you got it all along and just enjoy undermining the poetry here, or perhaps it is a way of striking at what you may consider as intellectual elitism, becoming one of those people who can't support their position or point through discussion and debate and simply becomes such an incredible nusiance that people simply give up.

I'm sure you'll respond as you have again and again to me and many others and we will finally give up arguing with a nusiance. As you read the above, you will see I have not been rude to you, as I have never been rude to you in the past. I will ask that to cease accusing me of making "ill comments", attacking people in comments or in the forums, of low voting or any of the other things you have accused me of. Either that or substantiate your claims.

Ambition is one thing, ambition untempered by proper judgement, experience and knowledge is merely blind ambition...

The 'Gung-o' karate instructor was ambitious about karate, but you did not see it as good. He lacked the proper judgement, experience and knowledge.

Perhaps the 'Gung-o' poet can change his path, perhaps not. Whether he argues this point to the point of being a nusiance or whether he considers the karate instructor metaphor and takes it to heart will probably be a good indicator.

And you know... an apology for the false accusations might be refreshing too.

Jim : )

 

[My Erotic Trail]

while strolling for inspiration this day... I found this... chucklebone! (~_*)

Be respectful to your superiors, if you have any; also to strangers, and sometimes to others. If a person offends you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measure; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. That will be sufficient. If you shall find that he had not intended any offense, come out frankly and confess yourself in the wrong when you struck him; acknowledge it like a man, and say you didn't mean to.
- Advice to Youth, 5/15/1882; Mark Twain


I in no way would advise this to a youth but I did find Mark's humor refreashing. (~_~)

 

[Decayed Angel]

I do not know a single poet personality that does not pursue the venues to improve...

a quote from jim... long ago, "why are literotica poems so vague"


...and wasn't it said several times at this site that only two poets in a century are considered great poets or become classic... so that makes the rest of us?

...those who enjoy reading and writing poetry as well!

I did the new poems reviews today and as I read the 33 poems listed, I found a lot of them very good as well as enjoyable (a good list of poems today) and I stated so... so... what is wrong with that!

You told some people you thought their poems were good... that's nice Art. I'll write Poetry Magazine and see if they will do a profile on you.

You know Art, you are now bordering on the absurd. You haven't yet found, out of my 742 comments an "Ill Comment", much less found anywhere that I attacked a poet, shit on poems or any of the assorted other things you have accused me of. I think it should be getting clear that I am not the savage person that disperses ill comments and attacks poets at will. Whether or not you find a "harsh" comment, you still have attacked my integrity and cast a shroud of lies over me. If you can't be man enough to apologize at least stop the lies.

It was over two years ago that you told me you would take over the poetry forum. I didn't doubt you could do it because you were carrying such a large entourage of friends and fans from the erotic stories people, an entourage that no one in the poetry forum could hope to match. But you know, I truly had no idea how underhanded and devious you would be about it.

I had ignored you for a while, figuring a lot of people, knowing my history at the poetry forum (as Jthserra, Kaishaku, etal) would know the truth and also ignore the lies. But as new poets visit and either stay or go, they will not know how relentless you have been propagating these lies about me and many others, and might be inclined to take what you say at face value.

As I said before, I expected this to become part of your standard operating procedure to argue and deny, whether sensibly or not until you simply become a nuisance. You have become a nuisance to me so all I will say, you lie about me again and I will ask the moderators to remove your post.

Continue to look for that elusive "harsh" comment, continue whatever argument you want. You owe me an apology, you know it and hopefully many other people know it. Of course I do realize I probably need to wait in line behind a lot of people for the apologies you owe, but I'll still wait.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

You told some people you thought their poems were good... that's nice Art. I'll write Poetry Magazine and see if they will do a profile on you.

You know Art, you are now bordering on the absurd. You haven't yet found, out of my 742 comments an "Ill Comment", much less found anywhere that I attacked a poet, shit on poems or any of the assorted other things you have accused me of. I think it should be getting clear that I am not the savage person that disperses ill comments and attacks poets at will. Whether or not you find a "harsh" comment, you still have attacked my integrity and cast a shroud of lies over me. If you can't be man enough to apologize at least stop the lies.

It was over two years ago that you told me you would take over the poetry forum. I didn't doubt you could do it because you were carrying such a large entourage of friends and fans from the erotic stories people, an entourage that no one in the poetry forum could hope to match. But you know, I truly had no idea how underhanded and devious you would be about it.

I had ignored you for a while, figuring a lot of people, knowing my history at the poetry forum (as Jthserra, Kaishaku, etal) would know the truth and also ignore the lies. But as new poets visit and either stay or go, they will not know how relentless you have been propagating these lies about me and many others, and might be inclined to take what you say at face value.

As I said before, I expected this to become part of your standard operating procedure to argue and deny, whether sensibly or not until you simply become a nuisance. You have become a nuisance to me so all I will say, you lie about me again and I will ask the moderators to remove your post.

Continue to look for that elusive "harsh" comment, continue whatever argument you want. You owe me an apology, you know it and hopefully many other people know it. Of course I do realize I probably need to wait in line behind a lot of people for the apologies you owe, but I'll still wait.

oh jim, now your grasping at straws... I have said it a many times... Honor above all things. What lies? Who have I lied about? You made 'A' comment that was not positive and I made a comment about it, your asking for the proof two years later, Cheyenne pulled all of her stuff which I think it was on her poem that the comment was made the other poet I suspected may have that comment is checking but may have deleted it, they delete unpleasant comments. I already looked and saw only two comments from you on her stories, not poems. You have a way of looking down your nose at folk jim, I am unsure why you think your a better poet than others when most can not understand what your poems about? I like a few of your stories and admit that freely, a couple I thought were damn good. But poetry, those you hold as the greater poets here are not that much better than any other poet that comes to this place so gather your elite poets and do what ever it is you wish to do cause to undermine is not my goal. To help others and share writes... that is why I am here. Paint it how you need to in order to feel better about your self but then your still delusional.

I have apologized many times in this forum when an apology was due, look in the new poem reviews for Sunday. I do not owe you an apology for your actions two years ago. I never claimed to take over this forum, I believe the comment I made was to be there for those who are attacked by critical critics (more or less) I have taken that stance in this forum and admit that whole heartedly but this undermining the poetry forum? How? and who? your grasping at straws here Jim. Your trying to play it that I have underhanded tactics when if you'll look through the two years of our debates I meet the debates head on, with My Honor.

I give you a lot of slack cause I know you have probably not visited your DR.'s couch in awhile, I feel it strange that the two that 'I' feel are unstable (also the snail) continue to bark at me about my stance against harsh criticism. Harsh criticism is a personality Jim, (we are not speaking of constructive criticism) you can't see your comments are not wanted by some but liked by others like anna etc. just like my comments are not liked by some but liked by others... it has been said many times and I have hope it is true that we can all live in the same forum with-out clashing. I stay to my self more and frequent my threads and a few friend's threads but I still, as now, get you, the snail, and others who wish to make this forum for the elite only, want to dig up past arguments to vent your negativity (or their's rather) but jim, this is a public forum and I do not know any one here that has greater poetry. As you mentioned we are all lesser poets. No one is better than another, for the simple fact we all express our emotions and feelings in writes, called poetry, now if you want to pick apart the grammar well that's your hang up, I read to feel another's passion and soul's thoughts. You want to re-arrange a write and make it better, well, that is great but maybe you should ask the poet if they mind if you dissect their words before telling them their poetry is not that good and then re-write it in the comment section.

You admitted that you changed your name several times in order to get votes on your poem's merit. (did you make some one angry= I would look towards them, it wasn't me) You pissed a few people off with your comments and had to change your name yet you want me to find the comments and you listed three (yourself) That had nothing to do with me but I see a pattern here as I am sure other's do and have in the past in your other squabbles with other lit members, why am I so different? I like ya, I respect you to a degree and that you should take as a compliment.

I am here if you feel the need to vent and squabble your un-happy feelings. But it seems your grasping at any and everything and have strayed from the original intent of you coming to this thread, you said you perked up because I was going to write for a university paper, well, jim anyone is eligible to submit an article to a university paper just like any local paper, that does not mean it will get published in their circulation but it made me curious as to why this would disturb you, then again you get disturbed easily.

Do you have any good input for me as I write this article about a person's ambition and how it changes with each goal yet each goal is a drive to better oneself. Do we become less ambitious as we reach the top of the ladder, "no" we make new goals for ourself. The masters tell us to be without ambition yet tell us to strive to better ourselves, perhaps the word is "Desire"

(~_~) bows humble

 

[Decayed Angel]

You attack some one's poem with an ill comment and I say something encouraging to them, some one's thread is hijacked and several poets converge to rally words against them. I try to help them by taking the heat off them and I am your bad guy <bigrin

A lie!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Who have I lied about?

Er, about me? Repeatedly and in a criminal fashion?

I'm not waiting for your apology, though. I know it's not coming.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Er, about me? Repeatedly and in a criminal fashion?

I'm not waiting for your apology, though. I know it's not coming.

I substantiated why, with you lauren...repeatedly... remember? I was scorned for posting the PM, where I had gotten my information.

Has the ambition thread become a thread for those with sore-toes to hash out the past, ambitiously? (~_*) Some how I had hoped we have grown less ambitious since then, for that type of a forum.

 

[Decayed Angel]

Originally Posted by MyNecroticSnail
You heard wrong, if you notice The RainMan was one of the people who mentioned you as one person to watch in New Poems. That should be an indication that you have potentional. He is also a top poet, one of the best here. It is people like him that keep this forum from stagnation. Senna Jawa is/was another, jthserra another. Sometimes they upset those with fragile eggshell egos, but it always about the poetry.
Let it RAIN meant more Rainman, others like him.
As for the low votes received, people play games. I get 'em from one crowd that loves to deny, perhaps I'm just *uppity*

Your response

funny that you mention the three most likely to vote down a poem or call it 'crap' or that it 'sucks' or comment rudely or uppity, when the thread was started as...

Another lie

 

[My Erotic Trail]

funny that you mention the three most likely to vote down a poem or call it 'crap' or that it 'sucks' or comment rudely or uppity, when the thread was started as...

re-tell how you vote jim... 2s and 3s are a high votes from you!!! That is down on the scale...

...and I believe I put 'uppity' in just for you <grin that is not a lie that is mine as well as others opinion !(obviously from our conversation on this thread)

 

[Decayed Angel]

You admitted that you changed your name several times in order to get votes on your poem's merit. (did you make some one angry= I would look towards them, it wasn't me) You pissed a few people off with your comments and had to change your name yet you want me to find the comments and you listed three (yourself) That had nothing to do with me but I see a pattern here as I am sure other's do and have in the past in your other squabbles with other lit members, why am I so different? I like ya, I respect you to a degree and that you should take as a compliment.

Art, jthserra was an established name with an extensive list of quality poetry. I sometimes will wonder if it is the poem getting the strong votes or the name jthserra. As for stories, immediately after Elizabetht made the claim I shit on people's poems because of a comment that the person I commented on thanked me graciously, I began pulling some interesting votes... a story with 18 5s suddenly got several ones, two new articles I had posted about haiku got immediate ones. It was obvious to me where this was coming from. I pissed some people off (actually I pissed Elizabetht, Joseki Ko and you off) because I didn't mention their work in my poetry reviews... plain and simple. I think Elizabetht has experienced some of that same response with her new story reviews. Annora got pissed off at the editing help I provided you on your stories, help that you insisted to me you wanted.

jthserra also had so many submissions that I needed a new place to put my work so I created another name.

What about all your names Art? You find something devious in my changing names but you changing names is not devious. My interest is in getting the poetry evaluated without any bias attached to the name. It almost appears you prefer the people to vote not on the quality of the poem but on who wrote it.

 

[Decayed Angel]

re-tell how you vote jim... 2s and 3s are a high votes from you!!! That is down on the scale...

...and I believe I put 'uppity' in just for you <grin that is not a lie that is mine as well as others opinion !(obviously from our conversation on this thread)

When have I called a poem crap?

And Art, you know perfectly that 2s and 3s are not high votes from me. Another lie?

This from the person who admits to voting 5s on undeserving poems to contradict legitimate votes from others. At least I vote on the merit of the poem, to give the poet requesting the vote honest feedback. My votes are not cast to cancel out another reader's vote.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Art, jthserra was an established name with an extensive list of quality poetry. I sometimes will wonder if it is the poem getting the strong votes or the name jthserra. As for stories, immediately after Elizabetht made the claim I shit on people's poems because of a comment that the person I commented on thanked me graciously, I began pulling some interesting votes... a story with 18 5s suddenly got several ones, two new articles I had posted about haiku got immediate ones. It was obvious to me where this was coming from. I pissed some people off (actually I pissed Elizabetht, Joseki Ko and you off) because I didn't mention their work in my poetry reviews... plain and simple. I think Elizabetht has experienced some of that same response with her new story reviews. Annora got pissed off at the editing help I provided you on your stories, help that you insisted to me you wanted.

jthserra also had so many submissions that I needed a new place to put my work so I created another name..

I have said amny times this exact same thing... at that time I had an older computer and found it hard or long rather to open my page from the long list, I always place my names in my signature and do not hide who I am.

What about all your names Art? You find something devious in my changing names but you changing names is not devious. My interest is in getting the poetry evaluated without any bias attached to the name. It almost appears you prefer the people to vote not on the quality of the poem but on who wrote it.

How does it appear this way... I don't vote down a poem infact I get scorned for leaving 5 votes? I know we all have our favorite poets as far as enjoy their poetry and online friendship. The new poem reviews should show who's poems I enjoyed and have mentioned older poets here as well as new. 'Appears'? where does this appear this way? grasping for straws again, Jim?

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Art, jthserra was an established name with an extensive list of quality poetry. I sometimes will wonder if it is the poem getting the strong votes or the name jthserra. As for stories, immediately after Elizabetht made the claim I shit on people's poems because of a comment that the person I commented on thanked me graciously, I began pulling some interesting votes... a story with 18 5s suddenly got several ones, two new articles I had posted about haiku got immediate ones. It was obvious to me where this was coming from. I pissed some people off (actually I pissed Elizabetht, Joseki Ko and you off)...

my claim to your disgruntled posts was about your being upset over tally of the survivor contest scores... what was wrong with adding up the scores? this is why you and I clashed... then...

I did not give your Haiku story a one vote... your mistaken here... or is that considered... a lie?

so others have claimed you left unfavorable comments as well... hummmm! (~_*)

 

[Decayed Angel]

Originally Posted by My Erotic Trail
re-tell how you vote jim... 2s and 3s are a high votes from you!!! That is down on the scale...

...and I believe I put 'uppity' in just for you <grin that is not a lie that is mine as well as others opinion !(obviously from our conversation on this thread)

You know Art, I write well. I have a fairly good vocabulary, when I work hard at it I can be eloquent at times. I am not ashamed of that, as I said, I work very hard at it. It is sad when this is called "uppity," it just seems that everyone should try to write well.

What does bother me is the ignorant person who makes no effort to better him or herself, who in fact takes pride in their ignorance and stupidity and who denigrates those who are not ignorant.

You have lied about me and have continued to do so... once again I ask you to stop.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

You know Art, I write well. I have a fairly good vocabulary, when I work hard at it I can be eloquent at times. I am not ashamed of that, as I said, I work very hard at it. It is sad when this is called "uppity," it just seems that everyone should try to write well.

What does bother me is the ignorant person who makes no effort to better him or herself, who in fact takes pride in their ignorance and stupidity and who denigrates those who are not ignorant.

You have lied about me and have continued to do so... once again I ask you to stop.

I believe we were talking about comments not poems and stories... keep focussed here jim!

 

[Decayed Angel]

I believe we were talking about comments not poems and stories... keep focussed here jim!

You know Art, I also try to write well in my comments. I was talking about anything I write, comments, posts, stories and poems.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

What does bother me is the ignorant person who makes no effort to better him or herself, who in fact takes pride in their ignorance and stupidity and who denigrates those who are not ignorant.

I think you know better than this jim, resorting to name calling and downing another this was could be taken as pompus or uppity! I find this funny cause I just recieved several comments from your 'intellectual elite' (as you call them) stating how much better I have gotten, writing both stories and poetry. Sorry if it does not meet with your approval <bigrin perhaps this is the problem, you don't see growth, you see stupid people's writes.

 

[Decayed Angel]

my claim to your disgruntled posts was about your being upset over tally of the survivor contest scores... what was wrong with adding up the scores? this is why you and I clashed... then...

I did not give your Haiku story a one vote... your mistaken here... or is that considered... a lie?

so others have claimed you left unfavorable comments as well... hummmm! (~_*)

Art:

Did I say you voted a one on my Haiku articles?


I know of no one else that thought I left unfavorable comments, beyond Elizabetht when talking about Echoes_s haiku.

 

[Decayed Angel]

I think you know better than this jim, resorting to name calling and downing another this was could be taken as pompus or uppity! I find this funny cause I just recieved several comments from your 'intellectual elite' (as you call them) stating how much better I have gotten, writing both stories and poetry. Sorry if it does not meet with your approval <bigrin perhaps this is the problem, you don't see growth, you see stupid people's writes.

Who has resorted to name calling? Carrying on my conversation about what is considered uppity, I looked at the other end of the spectrum. Did you think I was talking about you? Why would you do that?

 

[Decayed Angel]

You have lied about me and have continued to do so... once again I ask you to stop.

.....

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Art:

Did I say you voted a one on my Haiku articles?


I know of no one else that thought I left unfavorable comments, beyond Elizabetht when talking about Echoes_s haiku.

I am sorry, did I miss read this...

......As for stories, immediately after Elizabetht made the claim I shit on people's poems because of a comment that the person I commented on thanked me graciously, I began pulling some interesting votes... a story with 18 5s suddenly got several ones, two new articles I had posted about haiku got immediate ones. It was obvious to me where this was coming from. I pissed some people off (actually I pissed Elizabetht, Joseki Ko and you off) because I didn't mention their work in my poetry reviews... plain and simple.

jim, I feel we are diggin up the past in order to fuel your future... ambition? I take pride in being honorable, there is no honor in argueing, grasping at straws or belittling each other. I defend my statement, you have a right to defend your reputation or claim your comments are ment well, I have stated you leave some of the best reviews I have seen. I have stated your not that bad a person. I stated why you feel I am a bad person and you have stated as much. as well as others that feel the same way I do about a handful of your comments. (I recall only the one that was so long ago that I can not find)

so... I will apologize for making you unhappy with what I believe to be the truth. (~_~)

 

[WickedEve]

"Again...
not really haiku, go to google and enter zappai and take a look at the article "Toward an Aesthetic for English-Language Haiku" by Lee Gurga.

jim [ read more]"


" Nice short poem
02/09/04 by jthserra
Not really haiku. Considering the form, perhaps a senryu.

jim "


Two harsh comments to Joseki Ko...

Good Lord. Did someone find those comments offensive? They're great examples of constructive feedback.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

What does bother me is the ignorant person who makes no effort to better him or herself, who in fact takes pride in their ignorance and stupidity and who denigrates those who are not ignorant.

Who has resorted to name calling? Carrying on my conversation about what is considered uppity, I looked at the other end of the spectrum. Did you think I was talking about you? Why would you do that?

well, I didn't feel the shoe fit but was curious why you would say this... now!

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Good Lord. Did someone find those comments offensive? They're great examples of constructive feedback.

<rollseyes