BDSM and Impregnation

[James G 5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Cellis

Well I agree that people actually in real life do awful things like raise their children to be slaves ... and a lot more people do the equivalent although they do not call it BDSM and they're not honest about what they're doing. I believe these fantasies belong in the fantasy world ... and if a person is a aware that they have these fantasies, they (and society) should take strong measures to make that their fantasy never becomes reality, WITHOUT judging the person on their interior fantasy world. It's very important to protect children from harm. A lesser, but also important concern, is to make sure that people have as many orgasm as possible, by whatever means possible, as long as no real life children are affected and no unconsenting adults are forced to participate.

We can't condemn people for their fantasies just cause other people have had the same fantasy and then made the horrific decision to choose to act on that fantasy.

There IS some evidence tho that constant exposure to certain fantasies desensitizes people to the idea that the behavior in question is wrong
Aside from US studies with youth & violent video games, there was a story linked right here from Lit the other day about a rise in domestic pet injuries in Sweden
It seems that they only outlawed kiddie porn in Sweden in 1999
Once it was outlawed, they had a huge increase in the amount and availability of beastiality porn
Seems sex with animals was made legal as a loophole consequence of a legal change intended to legitimize homosexuality a long time back
Some experts believe one fantasy of assaulting the helpless (animals) replaced the fantasy of molesting the helpless (children)

In any case, since this explosion of animal porn, there has been a steady increase each year in admissions to veterinary hospitals of household pets (cats and dogs) with injuries consistent with sexual assault (vaginal and anal tearing/bruising and BLISTERS...apparently, like in our painful sex thread, they don't believe in lube either)

The pundits reviewing this issue think that the fantasy being made so prevalent, and the lack of legal barrier to acting on it, have combined to encourage a lot of people to act on this idea


Just a thought



*edited for a damn typo

 

[sunfox]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cellis

anyone?

Lots of butter? If so, I'd love to share.

 

[James G 5]

I think "ethical" hunting is a lot like "ethically" spanking children on their buttocks ... a labored rationalization/justification for indulging in a sick fetish.

Uhm OK
Like I said, sport hunting MAYBE
But in a lot of the US there're many people who subsitience hunt
My uncle has 3 kids and lives in a poorer rural part of the US
Every year he pays a few dollars for a hunting license and in a lawful & controlled manner brings down 2 or 3 deer
In doing so, he helps control the population of the herds so you don't end up in a situation like they had in Maryland a few years ago where the deer overpopulated so bad in to urban areas and impeded traffic to the point where they had to bring in military snipers to bring them down in populated areas
He dresses out the deer, sells the hides, and has the meat professionally butchered and then he freezes it
With proper storgae and for far less than shopping, he has enough meat to feed his family for a year
And all without any of the issues or cruelty assosciated with factory farmed meats


Ok, sorry, I know I am way off this topic, but this pisses me off
And GBB, unless you're a Vegan you should either get off hunters or do some reasearch on how cruelly the animals you eat & use in your every day life are often treated

 

[James G 5]

after reading thru all the posts, i'm glad to see that most understand this is a fantasy. and yes it is true that there is some small part of me that probably wishes it could become reality. the same part of me that wishes some of my Master's most extreme, cruel fantasies could become reality. the part of me able to ignore every other factor such as how others would be affected, how i'd be affected, how disastrous and awful they would be, etc...basically, the part of me that dreams up the fantasies in the first place. but in REALITY, it's not what i truly wish to happen, not something my Master wishes to happen, not something that will ever happen, but i'll say it again...it's lovely for us to think about, to drift off completely into fantasy land and share every detail of how it would happen, how things would develop, etc...then my Master might use me and we'll both get a bit of a release, with no more intention to realize the fantasy than we had before.

as far as certain things not falling under the umbrella of BDSM (or D/s, the lifestyle Daddy and i live)...i can think of few things that could NOT be D/s. not speaking for BDSM, but in D/s what separates a vanilla or "other" activity from a lifestyle activity is greatly the intent behind the activity. a shoe fetishist and a slave might both lick a woman's boots, but the reasons why they're licking them, and what it means, couldn't be more different.

(btw Kajira, hope that answers your questions, obviously this is a fantasy we share)

OSG, this makes me curious
You've said again & again you're your Master's property & you basically submit without question
If he ordered you to fulfill this fantasy, WOULD you?

(I promise not to attack you for whatever you say )

 

[TNRkitect2b]

<snip>

Ok, sorry, I know I am way off this topic, but this pisses me off
And GBB, unless you're a Vegan you should either get off hunters or do some reasearch on how cruelly the animals you eat & use in your every day life are often treated

<edited because my memory was wrong about the book, will re -edit when i remember the right one> Here is the right one, The Jungle by Upton Sinclair from 1905, with a new version similar to it, Slaughterhouse: The shocking Story of Greed, neglect, and Inhumane Treatement by Gail Eisnitz in 1997.
I am ITA with James on subsitience hunting. The meat is healthier for you, and doesn't have the growth hormones fed to market raised animals (cattle, swine, and chicken to name a few)

</ hijack>

 

[lark sparrow]

Yeah, it's hypocrisy, but...

It's not necessarily a concern about how many growth hormones are in the meat... it's the willingness to take a gun and take pleasure in killing an animal. Yep, when you look at a slaughter house I am sure it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I know there is overpopulation due to land development, and encouragement and benefit to killing wild populations... I know, I know. But it still baffles some of us that one would be willing and eager, without real personal need, to go out and kill a beautiful free range animal. Yes, I know the cruelty involved in domestic meat production. Killing is not a pretty business either way. Some do it for work, some do it for play.

 

[TNRkitect2b]

Re: Yeah, it's hypocrisy, but...

It's not necessarily a concern about how many growth hormones are in the meat... it's the willingness to take a gun and take pleasure in killing an animal. Yep, when you look at a slaughter house I am sure it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I know there is overpopulation due to land development, and encouragement and benefit to killing wild populations... I know, I know. But it still baffles some of us that one would be willing and eager, without real personal need, to go out and kill a beautiful free range animal. Yes, I know the cruelty involved in domestic meat production. Killing is not a pretty business either way. Some do it for work, some do it for play.

Edited to place into other thread more appropriate to the topic .see here

As to the true topic of this thread, I would never condone many things that I and others consider in a fantasy realm, yet I will not condemn someone for typing a fantasy in a way that can be misconstrued. The fact that we realize that they are fantasy, and not to be acted upon is the key element. Conjecture is just that, playing the what-if game.
The human mind can be a scary place. Those of us in this forum realize this more so than most. The exploration of the recesses of our mind can turn up very disturbing images. Just because someone begins to discuss these thoughts does not mean that they would act upon them

 

[lark sparrow]

Everyone has expressed themselves... no one has to agree, but I bet the ones who are disagreeing right now over this one topic could agree on a whole lot of other topics. I really think there is something to be said for not being too sensitive to general public disagreement.

If you are set in your way of thought, you are set.

If you are open, there is good and bad, agreement and disagreement.

If you are incomplete without agreement, then don't put it out there in the general population.

 

[James G 5]

why you seem to make the assumption that a slave cannot be respected by their Owner, i do not know, but that is unfortunate.

Maybe from your posts making statements like "I am Daddy's property, no different than his gun or his dogs, and if he wants to break me or discard me as such it is his right"
(I am paraphrasing a few posts, but the dog/gun thing was a direct quote)

It's hard for most people to see comments like that and then see him as having respect for you, since we don't really know either of you or see anything of your interactions other than what you post

 

[James G 5]

Just a comment on kids and perception
Kids really DO see a lot more than people think, and it's VERY hard to keep them from noitcing things you think are subtle
I cannot imagine in a relationship that's so TPE that the Master makes the decision about when & how impregnantion occurs that there would not be what psychologists call "telltales" or "giveaways" that would act as indicators to the children as to the nature of the relationship or influence their development
Not to mention the little bugger have a habit of walking in during whippings or break in to locked toy boxes looking for Xmas gifts
And while parents should maintain a zone of privacy, if you're not ashamed of your lifestyle & feel it's normal & acceptable I think there comes a time (mid to late teens, after the initial few years of sex/love/safety/respect talks to establish a "normal" framework) that some ideas about the life should be shared with the kids, both to expose them to the idea that such things can exist in a good & loving way and to keep them from growing aware in a possibly NEGATIVE manner (Dad abuses mom)
I think this seperation was part of what apet was calling for, and I have to say Dio & HM certainly misread her & took her out of context.
Additionaly, I would agree with those who've said (and I have said before) that I do not feel OSG's relationship keeps anough of this seperation and will probably result in warped sensebilities, or at least confusion, on the part of her owner's child
Barring the move she's said they'd like to make to places like the middle east where subjugation of women is common & acceptable

 

[catalina_francisco]

Everyone has expressed themselves... no one has to agree, but I bet the ones who are disagreeing right now over this one topic could agree on a whole lot of other topics. I really think there is something to be said for not being too sensitive to general public disagreement.

If you are set in your way of thought, you are set.

If you are open, there is good and bad, agreement and disagreement.

If you are incomplete without agreement, then don't put it out there in the general population.

Thanks for these words of wisdom and rationality. At this rate the Sub Thought of The Day Calendar will need renaming!!

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

And GBB, unless you're a Vegan you should either get off hunters or do some reasearch on how cruelly the animals you eat & use in your every day life are often treated

I'm a longtime vegetarian (more than 10 years now) and I don't have a problem with subsistence hunting. Sport hunting, yes, but if somebody needs to hunt to eat, how can I ask them to go hungry? Oh, and when my American History teacher gave us the option of reading The Jungle in 11th grade (I'd been a vegetarian for two years at that point), many students opted out of it. I read it and liked it! Go figure.

a situation like they had in Maryland a few years ago where the deer overpopulated so bad in to urban areas and impeded traffic to the point where they had to bring in military snipers to bring them down in populated areas

When and where in Maryland was this? Can you provide a link to any news sources about it? I grew up in Maryland, went to college in Maryland, and I now live just over the state line in Virginia and work in Maryland sometimes, and I have never heard of anything like this happening. Yes, we have had our share of deer overpopulation in the DC area, but impeding traffic?! Never heard of it happening.

 

[Kajira Callista]

<edited because my memory was wrong about the book, will re -edit when i remember the right one> Here is the right one, The Jungle by Upton Sinclair from 1905, with a new version similar to it, Slaughterhouse: The shocking Story of Greed, neglect, and Inhumane Treatement by Gail Eisnitz in 1997.
I am ITA with James on subsitience hunting. The meat is healthier for you, and doesn't have the growth hormones fed to market raised animals (cattle, swine, and chicken to name a few)

</ hijack>

(adds to hijack) i live in the woods...i see first hand what winter does to these poor animals because there is not enough food for them. It is horrible to watch a pregnant momma deer stand there shivering and allowing her almost yearlings eat the three blades of grass she found. And just some food for thought on this. Which is better hunting and killing an animal, using its hide and feeding your family.....or hitting and killing an animal and your whole family in the car with you because of overpopulation. BTW i want to add that where i live in PA ppl who hunt for sport pay for butchering and donate the meat to soup kitchens and poor families, how evil can they actually be when they have concern for another human being being able to eat.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

i probably shouldnt ask this, but im going to anyways

ownedsubgal-if youre Master told you tonight "pet i want us to have children, ive changed my mind. we will have children and we will raise our little girl to be our slave", what would you do?

 

[catalina_francisco]

We have the same issue in the pagan community when people in to really abhorent stuff want to be included with our beliefs
There was a discussion in the GLBT forum about NAMBLA (a pedophile group for man/boy sex) trying to associate itself with mainstream gay groups
I think in anything you have to use some reason & draw lines
All too often in BDSM groups & forums I hear cries of "tolerance!" and "openmindedness!" to the point it seems people will insist we accept any abhorent thing
That's simply ludicrous
I want an open mind, but not so open my brain falls out

Oh no, not the brain!! Where would we be in the kitchen?!! Seriously though, yes it is often a fear some have I think to be seen as not accepting of everyone for their individuality, but there have to be some parameters otherwise there is no paganism, no BDSM, no D/s, no gender....we just become a big fat all encompassing '?' I like knowing who I am finally.

Catalina

 

[sunfox]

i probably shouldnt ask this, but im going to anyways

ownedsubgal-if youre Master told you tonight "pet i want us to have children, ive changed my mind. we will have children and we will raise our little girl to be our slave", what would you do?

*chuckles* This has been asked three times now. I think inquiring minds want to know.. but we'll have to be patient.

 

[sunfox]

Everyone has expressed themselves... no one has to agree, but I bet the ones who are disagreeing right now over this one topic could agree on a whole lot of other topics. I really think there is something to be said for not being too sensitive to general public disagreement.

If you are set in your way of thought, you are set.

If you are open, there is good and bad, agreement and disagreement.

If you are incomplete without agreement, then don't put it out there in the general population.

Well put, lark sparrow. The point of discussion boards is conflicting views. Most everyone has kept it relatively civil and has asked for clarifications so they can argue their various points.

Variety is the spice of life, both agreement and disagreement. If you can't take it, don't post it.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

*chuckles* This has been asked three times now. I think inquiring minds want to know.. but we'll have to be patient.

haha really? i didnt notice, but then i havent read every postin this thread (tho ive read most of them).

and yes..enquiring minds want to know

 

[ownedsubgal]

Maybe from your posts making statements like "I am Daddy's property, no different than his gun or his dogs, and if he wants to break me or discard me as such it is his right"
(I am paraphrasing a few posts, but the dog/gun thing was a direct quote)

It's hard for most people to see comments like that and then see him as having respect for you, since we don't really know either of you or see anything of your interactions other than what you post

so because my Master owns me, and as my Owner can do absolutely whatever he wills with me, you assume that he must want to do, and will, do the worst? that he wants off with my head and such? to chop me into lil bits and make some slave stew to sup with oyster crackers? i don't understand that manner of reasoning. my Master and i are very, very, frighteningly even, in love with one another. with every year that passes, our mutual obsession and passion for one another only grows. He respects me as no one else ever has or ever could, because he sincerely (even tho it amazes me) thinks i'm a wonderful, valuable human being. some people seem to have the idea that ownership cannot exist with love and respect, but rest assured, it can and does and we are not by any means the only ones that make it happen.

as for our fantasy...of course if my Master decided that it was going to happen, it would happen (if nature allowed, of course). but as for sigsauer's question about it being "our" slave, that would not happen, i can't even speak on that hypothetically. as a slave i cannot own or have power over another. but again this is all about things that will not happen anyway, so i'm not really seeing the point in the questions.

 

[James G 5]

When and where in Maryland was this? Can you provide a link to any news sources about it? I grew up in Maryland, went to college in Maryland, and I now live just over the state line in Virginia and work in Maryland sometimes, and I have never heard of anything like this happening. Yes, we have had our share of deer overpopulation in the DC area, but impeding traffic?! Never heard of it happening.

REALLY?
I'm from Annapolis, right on King George just down from the Academy
This has been an ongoing issue over the last several years in parts of the state, both with the deer causing accidents and wandering in to residential or farming areas and eating gardens or food plants
Here're a few articles addressing some of it:
http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-sp.hunting08apr08,0,3804638.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

here's an entire page on St. Mary's county website about deer traffic issues

here's a more recent one out of Washington DC

here's another dealing with Md, VA, and DC and talking specifically about hunting as a means of controlling the population


I could go on & on like this but I won't LOL

If you want to search you can probably find some of the stories from a few years back about the issue I was talking about. It was in some of the counties that don't allow hunting & are more urbanized, where the deer were wandering in & ending up on the streets sometimes in groups, with no good way to remove them.

 

[James G 5]

so because my Master owns me, and as my Owner can do absolutely whatever he wills with me, you assume that he must want to do, and will, do the worst? that he wants off with my head and such? to chop me into lil bits and make some slave stew to sup with oyster crackers? i don't understand that manner of reasoning. my Master and i are very, very, frighteningly even, in love with one another. with every year that passes, our mutual obsession and passion for one another only grows. He respects me as no one else ever has or ever could, because he sincerely (even tho it amazes me) thinks i'm a wonderful, valuable human being. some people seem to have the idea that ownership cannot exist with love and respect, but rest assured, it can and does and we are not by any means the only ones that make it happen.

as for our fantasy...of course if my Master decided that it was going to happen, it would happen (if nature allowed, of course). but as for sigsauer's question about it being "our" slave, that would not happen, i can't even speak on that hypothetically. as a slave i cannot own or have power over another. but again this is all about things that will not happen anyway, so i'm not really seeing the point in the questions.

whoa girl
first off, I didn't assume anything
I was putting up an explanation in answer to your question about why some people react to what you say the way you do
I didn't say or imply anything negative about you or your Master, I just stated what I see as the answer to what you asked

And as far as why people are asking about things that will not happen, it's another attempt to understand you and a life alien to them
Hypotheticals can be a good way to see where someone's mind is and what life is like from their point of view

 

[Netzach]

I've never seen a TPE slave who didn't eventually get put in this kind of a hot seat.

"If he told you to jump off a bridge, would you?"

It's a moot point. The slave knows the other person isn't going to ask. It's as likely as me telling M to jump off a bridge or for a parent to tell their child to do it, so why on earth would Mastery lend itself more quickly to homicidal lusts against a loved one?

I honestly don't know why this always plays out this way.

 

[James G 5]

I've never seen a TPE slave who didn't eventually get put in this kind of a hot seat.

"If he told you to jump off a bridge, would you?"

It's a moot point. The slave knows the other person isn't going to ask. It's as likely as me telling M to jump off a bridge or for a parent to tell their child to do it, so why on earth would Mastery lend itself more quickly to homicidal lusts against a loved one?

I honestly don't know why this always plays out this way.

Like I said, people don't know or understand, and so they ask questions to the limit of what they can conceive to try and see how far the other person's mind goes
Some of it is simply incredulity, as the average person cannot comprehend the idea that someone REALLY thinks of themselves as "nothing but property no different than a gun or a dog" (and BTW I wouldn't kill my dog or throw my gun off a cliff, they're valuable to me and treasured by me, so I have never asked OSG those questions), so they tend to think of it as an elaborate mental fantasy structure and want to test the limits of it

 

[sigsauerprinces]

i dont think her masters going to ask her to jump off a cliff. thats not what im asking. im asking if she'd have a child with him for him to raise that child as his bdsm slave, if thats what her Master wanted. because the way she spoke about it, it seemed like she WOULD. and her last answer pretty much confirms that.

and not to sound like im moralizing, because god forbid if someone takes a moral stand in a bdsm forum, but to have a kid for that purpose is fucked up.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Not that osg needs any defending, but there is something which so many who are not in a 24/7 TPE relationship simply do not understand, osg is a 24/7 slave, she has no choice in whatever she does. This is the depth of her commitment towards her Master, it is total, and whatever he would demand of her she would rather die then fail him.

When an 24/7 TPE slave gives themselves to their owner there is a negotiation, sometimes limits are set which will not and can not be passed and sometimes the trust of the slave in the owner is of such proportions that they give them selves without any limits. The trust in their owner and the owner’s morals is absolute, by doing this they give up the power of choice. There are no more limits in the mind of osg; she will do whatever her Master tells her to do.

The question will you have a child and raise it according to your Master’s wishes is irrelevant to osg, the power does not lie with her to agree or disagree with her Master’s wishes. The decision is her Masters and the question should be asked to her Master not osg, the responsibility lies with him not osg.

Francisco.