Do Sadists Generally Preffer Submissives to Masochists?

[alice_underneath]

This almost sent me to the hospital.

Apologies for the close call, Marquis.

Alice

 

[sincerely_helene]

The scary thing is that I totally understand this.

I once wrote a piece of erotica [not for Lit] that had this theme. "Always leave a submissive/masochist/slave/bottom wanting more."

Even being allowed an orgasm should not leave me overly content. I need something that leaves me *wanting more*, and that's easiest to accomplish emotionally and/or mentally. Physically, the pain and the pleasure do have boundaries--they are finite. Well, they are if you want to go on living, walking, breathing, etc.. Death, after all, is finite. So, the emotional and mental become the arenas for 'leaving me unsatisfied' in some way. Those are unlimited areas of exploration.

I prefer to always have one question left unanswered. Or some emotional need not met. Something. Something to leave me wanting, suffering, and needing. For me, it establishes the roles at a deeper level. I will always want, he shall always be sated. If' I'm too content, I feel..... weird.

It's just wrong.

I'll admit it's a fine line. I mean, I'm not into total denial of what I need and want. I'm not that foolish or out of touch with myself. There are some basics [for me, maybe not for others] that I need to be present. But, I'm not likely to serve a Dominant who doesn't have the desire to accord me those.

I also want to have some of my needs met [the ones he wants to meet of course] because that is the tease, the carrot, the beginning of the suffering. I begin to hope I'll have all my needs met, all my desires. Even if I know they never have been in the past, I reach a point where I begin to hope that "this time" I'll get "it". Whatever "it" is for that moment.. That hope drives me towards the edge for him.

But here is the kicker, the times I have reached "it", I was very depressed afterwards. I was not happy--and it *was* what I wanted. But I came to realize that the 'suffering' was gone, the wanting was gone, the passion was gone, and I was miserable without it.

So, for the most part, I am happier when I am suffering in some fashion. Usually that suffering takes the form of some emotional or mental suffering because the physical does have limits, but it can definitely take the physical for as well.

I don't self-describe as a pain-slut, but I recognize that there is something in me that does not want to be too content. I prefer my passions, thank you very much!!

Exactly! Thank you.

 

[sincerely_helene]

I don't claim to grasp it completely, but I understand more after reading your post.

Thanks, Caitlynne.

Alice

It's a difficult task for me to explain myself at the best of times. I used to try with big, wordy responses, but always felt like I was boring the pants off the other person and they would just walk away confused still anyway. Now I just try to sum up my thoughts as best I can and leave it at that.

 

[Marquis]

Gentlemen, there you have it. Straight out of the whores' mouths. They use so many words to befuddle a hardly complicated concept time tested and true.

"Be a fucking asshole. It's the only thing these stupid cunts understand."

 

[sincerely_helene]

Gentlemen, there you have it. Straight out of the whores' mouths. They use so many words to befuddle a hardly complicated concept time tested and true.

"Be a fucking asshole. It's the only thing these stupid cunts understand."

Please, Sir, may I have another?

 

[rosco rathbone]

Further to your 'Black Flag' thoughts, my sig line refers to the battlecry issued by Henry's English Army whilst devasting the French countryside on the way to Agincourt. No thats my idea of warfare...born out of my time perhaps???

I note that you also quote Zarathustra. I reproduced that full chapter in Topopolis a while ago; for the amusment of the philosophical peanut gallery.

In the movie Joan Of Arc with Milla Jovanovitch; there's a scene at the beginning where the young Joan witnesses her sister being raped and murdered by a toothless, sweaty English soldier.I hate to admit it, but A. I don't know what war that was (100 Years War?) and B. it gave me a raging boner.

 

[Slutacus]

Who would voluntarily choose you as their partner?

Weridos?

You asked in another post, "I guess the thrust of my original question to Rosco was: If I am not a masochist, but I have this urge to give up control, wouldn't it be better to give up control to a non-sadistic man?!? "

It would be safer and easier, for sure. But without a little unpredictable sadism in your life, it is possible you will not feel your lack of control nearly as intensely and it may not even be satisfying in the long run. The two go hand-in-hand, in my experience.

 

[alice_underneath]

Gentlemen, there you have it. Straight out of the whores' mouths. They use so many words to befuddle a hardly complicated concept time tested and true.

"Be a fucking asshole. It's the only thing these stupid cunts understand."

It took me ten minutes to stop laughing after I read this.

The delivery was, in fact, hilarious, but most of the time I was really just laughing at myself.

This is an explanation that makes perfect sense to me. Hardly complicated, and true indeed.

And... damn. It explains so much.

Thank you, Marquis.

Alice

 

[Slutacus]

Gentlemen, there you have it. Straight out of the whores' mouths. They use so many words to befuddle a hardly complicated concept time tested and true.

"Be a fucking asshole. It's the only thing these stupid cunts understand."

Kudos! Spoken like a true GB'er (although I don't see you participating there, much).

I believe it is actually a far more complicated an issue than you have painted above. You have to know exactly what sort of asshole will get the best results with what sort of woman (for example, the oft-applied ignore-her ploy, which works very well on some chicks, will cause a different calibre of woman to kiss your sorry ass goodbye), and how intensely to apply it, and just when is the right time to AssH and when it is contraindicated, and... really, it's quite a complicated science, it seems to me. But what do I know (shrug), I'm just a chick.

 

[alice_underneath]

Kudos! Spoken like a true GB'er (although I don't see you participating there, much).

I believe it is actually a far more complicated an issue than you have painted above. You have to know exactly what sort of asshole will get the best results with what sort of woman (for example, the oft-applied ignore-her ploy, which works very well on some chicks, will cause a different calibre of woman to kiss your sorry ass goodbye), and how intensely to apply it, and just when is the right time to AssH and when it is contraindicated, and... really, it's quite a complicated science, it seems to me. But what do I know (shrug), I'm just a chick.

Slutacus,

For me, personally, Marquis' explanation makes perfect sense. I am not saying it applies in every case.

I am uncomfortable discussing the sexual implications of what he wrote, so I'll make an analogy here.

My husband loves quiche, and we have it for dinner all the time. It pleases me that he enjoys what I have prepared, and I derive great comfort and intellectual stimulation from the conversations that we have at the table.

But even as I am sitting there, enjoying his company and not wanting to trade my husband for anyone else in the world.... there is a Voice inside that tells me: REAL men don't eat quiche.

I have spent most of my adult life wrestling with this Voice. I am very good at suppressing it, but I can't make it go away.

So I have a very active fantasy life, starring a guy who looks a lot like Karl Urban and acts a lot like the character in Rosco's Conan post, above.

*shrugs* That's just the way it is.

Alice

 

[Evil_Geoff]

.....
So I have a very active fantasy life, starring a guy who looks a lot like Karl Urban and acts a lot like the character in Rosco's Conan post, above.

Alice

I have a pretty active fantasy life too...


Because I LOOK more like Carl Malden and ACT more like Rosco P. Coltrain...

*shrugs* That's just the way it is...

 

[catalina_francisco]

Kudos! Spoken like a true GB'er (although I don't see you participating there, much).

I believe it is actually a far more complicated an issue than you have painted above. You have to know exactly what sort of asshole will get the best results with what sort of woman (for example, the oft-applied ignore-her ploy, which works very well on some chicks, will cause a different calibre of woman to kiss your sorry ass goodbye), and how intensely to apply it, and just when is the right time to AssH and when it is contraindicated, and... really, it's quite a complicated science, it seems to me. But what do I know (shrug), I'm just a chick.

LOL, so true, and just the reason so many feel it is a breeze to become a self proclaimed Dominant overnight. I for one am one of those who just is not at all interested in the kind of male (vanilla or D/s) who tries the ignoring trick.....I just smile graciously (or sometimes laugh) and move onto more interesting territory which might at least keep my mind occupied if nothing else.

Catalina

 

[Caitlynne]

LOL, so true, and just the reason so many feel it is a breeze to become a self proclaimed Dominant overnight. I for one am one of those who just is not at all interested in the kind of male (vanilla or D/s) who tries the ignoring trick.....I just smile graciously (or sometimes laugh) and move onto more interesting territory which might at least keep my mind occupied if nothing else.

Catalina

**applaudes**

Here, here!!!

 

[alice_underneath]

LOL, so true, and just the reason so many feel it is a breeze to become a self proclaimed Dominant overnight. I for one am one of those who just is not at all interested in the kind of male (vanilla or D/s) who tries the ignoring trick.....I just smile graciously (or sometimes laugh) and move onto more interesting territory which might at least keep my mind occupied if nothing else.

Catalina

Catalina,

From the responses to Helene's initial question, it is clear that some sadists prefer non-masochistic submissives to masochists.

The flip side to the same question is the one I asked earlier on the thread: why would a non-masochistic sub voluntarily choose a sadist?

Issues of finesse aside, Marquis was addressing this question. And in answering it, whether intentionally or not, he hit the nail right smack on the head for someone like me.

I am not a masochist. I crave neither pain nor humiliation. But, whether due to birth or personal experience - and notwithstanding my best attempts to deny/ignore/suppress this fact - part of me expects or even needs a mate who acts like a "fucking asshole".

Alice

 

[catalina_francisco]

My question is how do you explain the bruises? Are the people around you concerned? I know I would be all over it if a friend/nieghbor/family member had horrible bruises all the time. Do you think you could have a relationship that did not involve violence, and if not, dont you think that is a problem?

I don't explain the bruises, partly because I do not go out or socialise much so it doesn't arise as a necessity, and partly because most bruising is in areas that are not normally visible, the rest could be from anything, even housework. As to relationships that don't involve violence, been there and done that for decades and it didn't work for me, especially when the couple of occasions violence became a part of it, it was non-consensual so I took action and also moved on. A problem to be in a consensual D/s SM relationship? No. I am a big girl, a grandmother in fact and I did not get into this through niaveness or accident or because someone else 'persuaded' me it was good for me, I made my own choices and went in search of what I wanted.

Given I had already lead a full life, had a career and profession in DV Counselling and therapy (so I am aware of what is involved on non-consenual violent relationships), raised 2 children on my own, owned my own house, went back and got a university degree (as well as finish high school) in my late 30's, as well as looked out for and took care of my parents and all my own financial responsibilites, I figured I was probably in a position to make a rational decision on my own to look for this type relationship. I might question it a little if I had stumbled on someone I liked and who made it clear I had to be in this to keep them, or if I had little life and sexual experience from which to compare and gauge my desires, or if I thought it was good for shock value or to impress, or if I just felt it would get me a partner...truth is it is just what works for me and I don't need the approval or admiration of others to make it interesting or right. LOL, I lead a fairly isolated and non-social life so I would fall flat on my face if I needed validation or recognition from others.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina,

From the responses to Helene's initial question, it is clear that some sadists prefer non-masochistic submissives to masochists.

The flip side to the same question is the one I asked earlier on the thread: why would a non-masochistic sub voluntarily choose a sadist?

Issues of finesse aside, Marquis was addressing this question. And in answering it, whether intentionally or not, he hit the nail right smack on the head for someone like me.

I am not a masochist. I crave neither pain nor humiliation. But, whether due to birth or personal experience - and notwithstanding my best attempts to deny/ignore/suppress this fact - part of me expects or even needs a mate who acts like a "fucking asshole".

Alice

From a professional viewpoint, I would suggest perhaps going to some counselling to try and define why you are attracted to those type men and relationships if only to ensure it is not a behaviour caused by something in your past which might be robbing you of your present and future. Not saying it is wrong, but it is my nature to want to know I am doing something which I can take responsibility for and not something which I might at some time regret and feel I did for all the wrong reasons and which only brought me harm. In that regard comes my preferred form of D/s, that being consensual with 100% knowledge of what I am getting myself into and taking responsibility for those choices....still cannot explain why I am the way I am as in masochistic and submissive, but I do know it is not because I don't feel I have a choice, or because I feel I deserve to be shit on, or because it is a learned behaviour.....it is just what I like. Perhaps the reason you are attracted to this type of partner is because at some stage that was what you felt D/s meant, that there had to be violence, or the quite common misconception that a submissive must be second rate and lacking in value, thus not deserving to be treated well in any aspect?

In response also to your earlier question about how I feel pain, it is felt physically, emotionally, and psychologically....sometimes all at once, sometimes in one or two of those ways. I crave to have all of them indulged, though only in a consensual relationship. I don't like pain that comes in other ways such as illness, nor am I into self harm as that just would not press the right buttons for me....it has to be partnered with control, I have been in relationships which incorporated one or all 3 of those forms of abuse without my consent, and believe me, I did not derive pleasure from them on any level, nor did I remain in them as I was not about to be a victim and let some arsehole put me in the place where he belonged....hell. My decision to pursue a full on extreme SM relationship was of my own free will, and despite some well meaning D/s friends cautioning me against going 'too far', because it was what I discovered had been missing in my life and for which I continually remained restless and searching for that elusive something. Once I discovered and acknowledged what that something was, I began my mission to find the one relationship which would become the rest of my life. I was fortunate in that it didn't take long (couple of years), and that I had some trustworthy people who helped guide and advise me along the way. So far I have not regretted my path.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

From a professional viewpoint, I would suggest perhaps going to some counselling to try and define why you are attracted to those type men and relationships if only to ensure it is not a behaviour caused by something in your past which might be robbing you of your present and future. Not saying it is wrong, but it is my nature to want to know I am doing something which I can take responsibility for and not something which I might at some time regret and feel I did for all the wrong reasons and which only brought me harm. In that regard comes my preferred form of D/s, that being consensual with 100% knowledge of what I am getting myself into and taking responsibility for those choices....still cannot explain why I am the way I am as in masochistic and submissive, but I do know it is not because I don't feel I have a choice, or because I feel I deserve to be shit on, or because it is a learned behaviour.....it is just what I like. Perhaps the reason you are attracted to this type of partner is because at some stage that was what you felt D/s meant, that there had to be violence, or the quite common misconception that a submissive must be second rate and lacking in value, thus not deserving to be treated well in any aspect?

Catalina,

In my entire life, I have never been struck, slapped, spanked, or intentionally hurt in any physical way. I am married to a wonderful man who is kind, loving, decent, tender, understanding, very vanilla, and NOT in any way, shape, or form, a "fucking asshole". I have never cheated, nor will I.

I am trying to understand my fantasies, not to explain my choice of men in real life. In the process, I am learning how easy it might have been for me to voluntarily choose a sadist as a partner, even though I am not a masochist.

The reason has nothing to do with misconceptions regarding D/s relationships. (Until about a year ago, I had never even heard of BDSM, or any of its components.) Instead, it has everything to do with the fact that a girl's expectations where men are concerned are formed, to a large extent, by the relationship she has with her father. Or, in my case, the absence of one.

I have questions for you relating to the topic at hand. Generally speaking, do you consider a relationship between a sadist and a non-physically-masochistic sub to be, by definition, abuse?

Do you believe that there are some emotionally masochistic needs that can be legitimately met in such a partnership? Or, would you counsel any sub who is non-physically-masochistic to seek professional assistance before entering such an arrangement?

Looking at it from the other side, would you also counsel a sadist who seeks a non-physically-masochistic sub to seek professional help?

Alice

 

[Caitlynne]

In that regard comes my preferred form of D/s, that being consensual with 100% knowledge of what I am getting myself into and taking responsibility for those choices....still cannot explain why I am the way I am as in masochistic and submissive, but I do know it is not because I don't feel I have a choice, or because I feel I deserve to be shit on, or because it is a learned behaviour.....it is just what I like. Perhaps the reason you are attracted to this type of partner is because at some stage that was what you felt D/s meant, that there had to be violence, or the quite common misconception that a submissive must be second rate and lacking in value, thus not deserving to be treated well in any aspect?

I agree.

I've seen so many submissive's who believe that D/s is about being shit on all the time, and they convince themselves that they *need* to learn to like it in order to be in the relationship or to be a *good* sub. They let others define their needs. That is not an informed choice based on inner knowledge of what one needs in life.

I found [for me] that long years of introspection, about who and what I am about, were necessary in order to understand *what* I truly want out of D/s.

I agree with Catalina, I don't do what I do because I have no choice. I made a VERY informed decision, based on what my needs were/are. I sought out a partner, [or humm, we sought each other, hard to say at this point] who was compatible with those needs. [Sort of Relationships 101]

I didn't feel at the time that I had no choice but to submit. I made the choice to do so, and asked to do so, because it was what I desired to do.

Going back to Marquis' post about just being an asshole to all women. While it gave me a good laugh, it conjures up lots of images that don't jive with what I was talking about [for me]. When I said, I want to be left wanting, I didn't mean I wanted to be abused. There is a difference IMHO.

Being an asshole works for some men, and some women love it. I know those women. God Bless them, they do love it. But I was talking more about the esoteric elements of desire and fulfillment. A man doesn't have to be an asshole to leave me wanting just a little bit more. In fact, it works better [for me] if he isn't. Respect and admiration for a man really feed my submissiveness--asshole's don't.

In general, an asshole just pisses me off. I met them a lot when I was hustling pool in college. I only tolerated them long enough to take their money. And since I financed my college career by hustling pool, I took their money a lot.

It's easy to be an asshole. We all do it from time to time. Some of us make a career out of it, and that is fine. In a long term relationship, I don't want to deal with an asshole everyday. I consider them to be whiners in fact. Children for the most part, who need to wake up and face the realities of life.

But that is just my opinion. LOL

Now a man who is in control of his universe and understands what he wants and knows how to get it from life and me... that is a different story. It's how he does it that attracts me. But then I'm a submissive, I am inspired to serve some men and not others. It's not about him being an asshole to me, it's about him reinforcing the roles between us. He commands and I serve.

 

[Netzach]

Gentlemen, there you have it. Straight out of the whores' mouths. They use so many words to befuddle a hardly complicated concept time tested and true.

"Be a fucking asshole. It's the only thing these stupid cunts understand."

Fundamentally. I never fucking understood this. I want what I want. I do not have time to enjoy the sting of having my pleasures meted out by dick at its whim. There's nothing charmingly romantic about it.

It never bores me because what I want becomes increasingly weirder, more degrading, more complex and more challenging for the dick at hand to fulfill. If its little spirited drive to deliver the goods (whatever that might be) flags too much or goes away the game is long since over.

Pushing back is expected, caving in eventually is de rigeur. And I'm never disappointed when the caving happens. That's the vanilla chick pattern that my tiny brain doesn't comprehend.

Not only do real men eat Quiche, they get it for you and they eat it off the floor after you've put your foot in it, while still retaining this hunky aura of masculinity.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I agree.

I've seen so many submissive's who believe that D/s is about being shit on all the time, and they convince themselves that they *need* to learn to like it in order to be in the relationship or to be a *good* sub. They let others define their needs. That is not an informed choice based on inner knowledge of what one needs in life.

I found [for me] that long years of introspection, about who and what I am about, were necessary in order to understand *what* I truly want out of D/s.

I agree with Catalina, I don't do what I do because I have no choice. I made a VERY informed decision, based on what my needs were/are. I sought out a partner, [or humm, we sought each other, hard to say at this point] who was compatible with those needs. [Sort of Relationships 101]

I didn't feel at the time that I had no choice but to submit. I made the choice to do so, and asked to do so, because it was what I desired to do.

Going back to Marquis' post about just being an asshole to all women. While it gave me a good laugh, it conjures up lots of images that don't jive with what I was talking about [for me]. When I said, I want to be left wanting, I didn't mean I wanted to be abused. There is a difference IMHO.

Being an asshole works for some men, and some women love it. I know those women. God Bless them, they do love it. But I was talking more about the esoteric elements of desire and fulfillment. A man doesn't have to be an asshole to leave me wanting just a little bit more. In fact, it works better [for me] if he isn't. Respect and admiration for a man really feed my submissiveness--asshole's don't.

In general, an asshole just pisses me off. I met them a lot when I was hustling pool in college. I only tolerated them long enough to take their money. And since I financed my college career by hustling pool, I took their money a lot.

It's easy to be an asshole. We all do it from time to time. Some of us make a career out of it, and that is fine. In a long term relationship, I don't want to deal with an asshole everyday. I consider them to be whiners in fact. Children for the most part, who need to wake up and face the realities of life.

But that is just my opinion. LOL

Now a man who is in control of his universe and understands what he wants and knows how to get it from life and me... that is a different story. It's how he does it that attracts me. But then I'm a submissive, I am inspired to serve some men and not others. It's not about him being an asshole to me, it's about him reinforcing the roles between us. He commands and I serve.

LOL, so true, and I just love it when I think I have reached somewhere I recognise or am close to sated and he twists things just a little more in a completely unexpected way, and there I am, wanting and needing more all over again.

Catalina

 

[Marquis]

Talking to the BDSM Brahman can sometimes be like talking to your high school science teacher.

"What color is the sky?"

"Blue"

"Actually, the hues your eyes are capable of discerning in the sky are a combination of several different wavelengths of light from the sun that are reflected by the many different layers of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere and stratosphere, creating the illusion of a blue sky."


What do I know, I'm barely legal, but the motherfucker looks blue to me.

 

[Caitlynne]

LOL, so true, and I just love it when I think I have reached somewhere I recognise or am close to sated and he twists things just a little more in a completely unexpected way, and there I am, wanting and needing more all over again.

Catalina

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

**goes off singing... "Heaven, I'm in heaven"**

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina,

In my entire life, I have never been struck, slapped, spanked, or intentionally hurt in any physical way. I am married to a wonderful man who is kind, loving, decent, tender, understanding, very vanilla, and NOT in any way, shape, or form, a "fucking asshole". I have never cheated, nor will I.

I am trying to understand my fantasies, not to explain my choice of men in real life. In the process, I am learning how easy it might have been for me to voluntarily choose a sadist as a partner, even though I am not a masochist.

The reason has nothing to do with misconceptions regarding D/s relationships. (Until about a year ago, I had never even heard of BDSM, or any of its components.) Instead, it has everything to do with the fact that a girl's expectations where men are concerned are formed, to a large extent, by the relationship she has with her father. Or, in my case, the absence of one.

I have questions for you relating to the topic at hand. Generally speaking, do you consider a relationship between a sadist and a non-physically-masochistic sub to be, by definition, abuse?

Do you believe that there are some emotionally masochistic needs that can be legitimately met in such a partnership? Or, would you counsel any sub who is non-physically-masochistic to seek professional assistance before entering such an arrangement?

Looking at it from the other side, would you also counsel a sadist who seeks a non-physically-masochistic sub to seek professional help?

Alice

Oooops, didn't realise you were talking of fantasies and were in a relationship that was unlike those you described...... that's what happens when I go away across the ocean and come back and try and catch up on all that's been a'happenin'!! As to fantasies, they are good, but some fantasies are just that, fantasy and never meant to be a reality as the fantasiser would find they did not like what happened in the reality at all, and it was far from how it was in their fantasy. It is a fine line knowing what those situations might be and how to judge which ones should move in to reality stakes and which should remain fodder for getting off. Fantasy can be controlled, you direct what will happen....reality is a lot less predictable, controlled and sanitised.

As to your background experiences etc., it is not always physical abuse that makes one vulnerable to abusive relationships, quite often (most times actually), it relates more to emotional and psychological issues that have occured at an earlier point in their life. Sometimes the event or events that lead to such feelings and inner beliefs which leave someone open to abuse, once discovered and recognised have been events which passed almost unnoticed for the subsequent message they burned into the psyche of a person, sometimes seemingly insignificant and silent, but hugely powerful. I also don't think it is solely related to the father or lack of father presence.....mothers and even siblings can also have huge effects on our adult behaviour where relationships are concerned. LOL, for example my mother burnt into my brain from a very early age that all men wanted from women was sex (she still holds weird and skewed views on anything remotely sexual )....her intention was to make sure we didn't give it to them, but coupled with her methods of undermining self confidence and self image, it had the opposite effect and opened me up to a lot of relationships (if you could call them that) in younger days which were bound to lead nowhere and where the one to be hurt was me and only me.

That aside, no, I don't think a relationship between a sadist and non-masochist is abuse, unless there are things happening which have not been consented to, or the relationship is based on something other than free will and consent. It comes back to adults taking responsibility for their choices....if someone goes into a D/s relationship knowingly, then decides it is not for them, unless they are not allowed to leave it is not abuse, it is a bad choice and they need to deal with it. It is similar to the woman who wants sex, has sex with someone they choose, then a day or so later fear pregnancy or their own libido and call it rape....hindsight cannot change the reality of what took place. I would think though that the sadist and sub in question were perhaps a bit misguided in trying to make it work and even entertaining the idea....sort of regard it in the same light as I do those who make it their mission in life to date vanilla's exclusively in the hope they can change them into Dom/mes or subs....seems an awful waste of time and energy.

Perhaps an emotional masochist could find some place in such a relationship, it would depend on what worked for them , whether they were still growing and perhaps had not discovered all of what they felt in such terms, and whether the sadist was experienced or insightful enough, and willing to work with what was already there. It could be potentially psychologically damaging to the sub though if they were not strong enough to deal with the mix of feelings such a relationship might raise, especially if the sadist acted on their needs.

As to the other 2 questions which are sort of reverse of each other, no I wouldn't tell someone to seek professional help under those circumstances unless I knew them well and strongly suspected what they were entering was a form of self sabotage or self harm (or harmful to the other), especially if they had done it before or repeatedly.....or they were very young and inexperienced at life in general, thus perhaps vulnerable and doing it all for the wrong reasons such as pressure or the desire to be with a particular person at any cost. I tend to think adults have to make their won decisions...if they asked my advice and hinted they were not sure they were doing the right thing I might suggest professional guidance, even if only to think out loud....and if they came to me and asked for counselling I would have no problem with either doing it or referring them to someone I thought might be suitable. Counselling is one of those things which stands a better chance of working in a positive way if the person being counselled seeks it because they believe it will help them, not because they should or have to do it.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Talking to the BDSM Brahman can sometimes be like talking to your high school science teacher.

"What color is the sky?"

"Blue"

"Actually, the hues your eyes are capable of discerning in the sky are a combination of several different wavelengths of light from the sun that are reflected by the many different layers of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere and stratosphere, creating the illusion of a blue sky."


What do I know, I'm barely legal, but the motherfucker looks blue to me.

LOL, that is what is so exciting about life. One day something just makes no sense to you, or appears to be one thing...then the next, or perhaps several years down the track it is so clear and so different to what you thought, and then later still it is all different again in a completely different way. That is what I am enjoying so much about getting closer to 50...each decade seems to bring so many new insights and different views it is like a whole new universe to explore and try to understand.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

Oooops....

Catalina,

No "ooops". We're in the 70s in post count on this thread. Why should you have to read the entire thing before you respond?

Thank you very much for this response, as well as the others here.

On the one hand, I completely understand Marquis' point about the color of the sky (and he made me laugh - again! - which I appreciate very much.)

But on the other hand, when it comes to the question of human sexual preferences, I find the question of why to be intellectually fascinating. And the more complex the issue, the more intriguing it becomes.

The idea of a non-masochist and a sadist together is particularly interesting because, on the surface, it makes no sense. And it is complex because even someone who describes herself as "non-masochistic" might want to have her hair pulled or bottom smacked every now and then. And someone who calls himself a "sadist" might not necessarily be out for blood.

Someone who says he wants to physically hurt his partner - and wants her to hate it & take it solely because she wants to please him - sure sounds like someone with asshole tendencies! But how far would he really go? And how often? And in the process, would he be fulfilling any of her deep emotional needs?

Add to the mix mind-games.... issues of character & restraint on his part, informed consent on hers.... non-sexual personality issues.... non-BDSM likes & interests.... etc., etc., etc..... and you have a very complex situation indeed.

Thanks again for addressing my questions.

Alice