Do Sadists Generally Preffer Submissives to Masochists?

[Slutacus]

Talking to the BDSM Brahman can sometimes be like talking to your high school science teacher.

"What color is the sky?"

"Blue"

"Actually, the hues your eyes are capable of discerning in the sky are a combination of several different wavelengths of light from the sun that are reflected by the many different layers of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere and stratosphere, creating the illusion of a blue sky."


What do I know, I'm barely legal, but the motherfucker looks blue to me.

Au contrarie, mon petit. (Do you really want to do the analogy debate thing with me? Okie-dokie! )

Unless you are a scientist whose job requires him to understand why we perceive the sky is blue, simply stating "the sky is blue" is enough for most people. Should you choose to apply an equal level of no-knowedge, where knowledge does matter, however, you will be looked at as if you are nuts, stupid or both. Take any skill, for instance. Guitar playing. If someone asks you how to play a guitar and you say, "Well, ya just pick it up and start strummin'," you're greatly oversimplifying so much so that, unless the questioner has incredible inate music talent, your advice is not going to do him any good. I posit that treating (vanilla) women bad is in the same category: a complex involved skill that, while it can be stated simply, in a few words, actually involves considerable strategy, planning, trial-and-error, and even some natural talent to learn to do in a way that optimizes your own male experience.

So just saying, "all you have to do is treat her bad," which, by the way, is what hundreds of young men are saying right this second to their brothers on hundreds of internet forums (this supposed "trick" for getting the straight chicks to want them has turned into such a huge cliche--the sad thing is, so many young insecure vanilla women act in such as way as to make it relatively true), is not really conveying anything of the complexity of the task. Not that you have to, of course, I was just pointing out that the subject is rather involved.

It gets even more complicated when dealing with bdsm chicks, experienced ones anyway, because we know the score, power-wise, and often see the "treat her bad so she'll like me" ploy as the transparent act of a rather desperate man...and we either don't play, or we change the rules on you.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina,

No "ooops". We're in the 70s in post count on this thread. Why should you have to read the entire thing before you respond?


Alice

LOL, on the contrary, I have been following the thread from the beginning hence I was the 3rd post, I just didn't pick up on you speaking about your marriage or it being vanilla or that when you spoke of men you might be attracted to that you meant in fantasy only. As much as it has relevance, it does make a difference to many perceptions when discussing most topics here and real situations as opposed to ones that you can imagine happening....all have a place, but often it is necessary to realise when someone speaks of reality and they speak of fantasy or online only experiences. And you are correct in that the relationships people experience are complex, especially when it is more than an occasional play situation...I have found that over time the relationship and activities enjoyed and endured have changed and differed vastly, though all changes have been a part of growth and taken us both to places we vowed we could never see ourselves going...the journey is interesting and captivating and will remain so I expect. Oh, and don't let Roscoe's AV distract you as to the best of my knowledge it is not him....he likes to be a man of mystery that one!!

Catalina

 

[Slutacus]

Oh, and don't let Roscoe's AV distract you as to the best of my knowledge it is not him....he likes to be a man of mystery that one!!

Catalina

You know who his AV is of, don't you?

 

[Marquis]

Au contrarie, mon petit. (Do you really want to do the analogy debate thing with me? Okie-dokie! )

Unless you are a scientist whose job requires him to understand why we perceive the sky is blue, simply stating "the sky is blue" is enough for most people. Should you choose to apply an equal level of no-knowedge, where knowledge does matter, however, you will be looked at as if you are nuts, stupid or both. Take any skill, for instance. Guitar playing. If someone asks you how to play a guitar and you say, "Well, ya just pick it up and start strummin'," you're greatly oversimplifying so much so that, unless the questioner has incredible inate music talent, your advice is not going to do him any good. I posit that treating (vanilla) women bad is in the same category: a complex involved skill that, while it can be stated simply, in a few words, actually involves considerable strategy, planning, trial-and-error, and even some natural talent to learn to do in a way that optimizes your own male experience.

So just saying, "all you have to do is treat her bad," which, by the way, is what hundreds of young men are saying right this second to their brothers on hundreds of internet forums (this supposed "trick" for getting the straight chicks to want them has turned into such a huge cliche--the sad thing is, so many young insecure vanilla women act in such as way as to make it relatively true), is not really conveying anything of the complexity of the task. Not that you have to, of course, I was just pointing out that the subject is rather involved.

It gets even more complicated when dealing with bdsm chicks, experienced ones anyway, because we know the score, power-wise, and often see the "treat her bad so she'll like me" ploy as the transparent act of a rather desperate man...and we either don't play, or we change the rules on you.

It's too bad I have a final tomorrow or I could do this all night.

The skill in which the asshole tactic is emplyed is largely a matter of sophistication, which largely jives with the models both of us have presented. My humorous science teacher anectdote was a tongue in cheek response to the affectionate head patting those wiser and more experienced than myself are so wont to bestow upon me. My profanely phrased comment about being an asshole was an allusion to the "no girls allowed" immaturity of my "All women are whores" thread, making fun of how that which is really so complicated is all really so simple, and vice-versa.

So yes, there is "being an asshole" and there is "being an asshole".

I like to show up late for dates (actually, sometimes I enjoy showing up exactly on time, and lecturing my partner for showing up even a little late, but one example at a time). It makes the immediate impression that my time is more important than yours, and you should feel comfortable waiting for me if I see fit.

I ask a young lady to meet me outside a particular café, 6pm sharp. She arrives a little early, and has a seat at the bench outside. 6:05 rolls around without much concern, 6:10 brings annoyance and by 6:15 she is ready to leave. Just as her patience seems worn thin, I arrive. Not running out of my car with shaving cream still stuck to my face, or with a "broken watch" or any other apologetic excuse. I arrive from within the coffee shop, and invite her inside.

She is shocked to see I was there all along and asked why I didn't come out. I tell her I was reading an article that had my attention, and that she seemed peaceful outside. She is shocked and confused. I smile cheekily and apologize with a mischievous glint in my eyes, take her hand and lead her inside. I take her coat like a gentleman, and pull her seat out for her. She sits to find her favorite dessert already on the table, and her beverage of choice on the way.

At this point she makes the decision to complain about this throughout the rest of the meal, or even smile, laugh and walk out as some suggested they might do in such a situation. If she chooses that option, she is saving both of us time. If she submits to this one discomfort, obviously intentional in its delivery and faithfully compensated, then we both know more fun games are to come.

Now, this is a simple game, to be sure. Barely above pulling the pigtails of the girl you like in the schoolyard or stealing her legos and making her kiss you to get them back. I'm sure I'm not capable of the kind of elaborate romance older gentleman of a dominant nature must wield, and I wouldn't expect to be.

I hold firm, however, that until I die all of these interactions fall submissive to a single simplistic maxim which I have earlier stated. Since those of you more experienced than myself seem to be expressing a similar concept, far more eloquently than I could, I find it ever curious that my methods be compared to distinguished gentleman of the whip, when I am but a young lad of 23 years.

Why do you suppose that might be, ladies?

 

[rosco rathbone]

You know who his AV is of, don't you?

She's a Euro; I doubt it.

 

[graceanne]

Talking to the BDSM Brahman can sometimes be like talking to your high school science teacher.

"What color is the sky?"

"Blue"

"Actually, the hues your eyes are capable of discerning in the sky are a combination of several different wavelengths of light from the sun that are reflected by the many different layers of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere and stratosphere, creating the illusion of a blue sky."


What do I know, I'm barely legal, but the motherfucker looks blue to me.

LOL

Did you actually say that?

 

[shy slave]

It's too bad I have a final tomorrow or I could do this all night.

The skill in which the asshole tactic is emplyed is largely a matter of sophistication, which largely jives with the models both of us have presented. My humorous science teacher anectdote was a tongue in cheek response to the affectionate head patting those wiser and more experienced than myself are so wont to bestow upon me. My profanely phrased comment about being an asshole was an allusion to the "no girls allowed" immaturity of my "All women are whores" thread, making fun of how that which is really so complicated is all really so simple, and vice-versa.

So yes, there is "being an asshole" and there is "being an asshole".

I like to show up late for dates (actually, sometimes I enjoy showing up exactly on time, and lecturing my partner for showing up even a little late, but one example at a time). It makes the immediate impression that my time is more important than yours, and you should feel comfortable waiting for me if I see fit.

I ask a young lady to meet me outside a particular café, 6pm sharp. She arrives a little early, and has a seat at the bench outside. 6:05 rolls around without much concern, 6:10 brings annoyance and by 6:15 she is ready to leave. Just as her patience seems worn thin, I arrive. Not running out of my car with shaving cream still stuck to my face, or with a "broken watch" or any other apologetic excuse. I arrive from within the coffee shop, and invite her inside.

She is shocked to see I was there all along and asked why I didn't come out. I tell her I was reading an article that had my attention, and that she seemed peaceful outside. She is shocked and confused. I smile cheekily and apologize with a mischievous glint in my eyes, take her hand and lead her inside. I take her coat like a gentleman, and pull her seat out for her. She sits to find her favorite dessert already on the table, and her beverage of choice on the way.

At this point she makes the decision to complain about this throughout the rest of the meal, or even smile, laugh and walk out as some suggested they might do in such a situation. If she chooses that option, she is saving both of us time. If she submits to this one discomfort, obviously intentional in its delivery and faithfully compensated, then we both know more fun games are to come.

Now, this is a simple game, to be sure. Barely above pulling the pigtails of the girl you like in the schoolyard or stealing her legos and making her kiss you to get them back. I'm sure I'm not capable of the kind of elaborate romance older gentleman of a dominant nature must wield, and I wouldn't expect to be.

I hold firm, however, that until I die all of these interactions fall submissive to a single simplistic maxim which I have earlier stated. Since those of you more experienced than myself seem to be expressing a similar concept, far more eloquently than I could, I find it ever curious that my methods be compared to distinguished gentleman of the whip, when I am but a young lad of 23 years.

Why do you suppose that might be, ladies?

This made me laugh,

Yes I would put up with that, but only if you were prepared to have the tables turned at another time or place.

It may take some thought to decide how to show my time is of equal value to yours (and trust me it is, after all if I am going to spend MY time sucking YOUR cock you better appreciate the amount of time I take!) or maybe I would just find a way to see if your sense of humour matches your ability to be an intriging asshole.

LOL

 

[Slutacus]

A distinguished gentleman of the whip?

Uh, Jay Wiseman? (just kidding!)

I don't think you're referring to DeSade, although I haven't read him in so long that I might be wrong. His methods were a bit more direct. He didn't do the subtle jockey-for-power thing, that I remember, because the women he had to play with in his stories always seemed to be completely imprisioned already...they didn't need luring to the castle.

Do you play that sort of cafe game with conscious submissives women or just straight women who may or may not be sub?

 

[graceanne]

Why do you suppose that might be, ladies?

I don't know why that is. You're weird, but we know that.

On the other hand their's option three. Put up with it for now and not agree to another date. For me, it would depend on the rest of the date.

 

[alice_underneath]

Oh, and don't let Roscoe's AV distract you as to the best of my knowledge it is not him....he likes to be a man of mystery that one!!

Catalina

Dear god, woman!

Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that RJMasters isn't a cowboy!!!

I suppose I can live with both of those revelations. *sigh*

But if you find out that wasn't a picture of Joe Schmoe with his girlfriend on his shoulders.... please keep it to yourself.

Sheesh!

Alice

 

[sincerely_helene]

Still enjoying the responses (even the ones I may secretly disagree with. )

Maybe I should have brought the last part of my original query into a seperate thread, because it hasn't gotten much attention and it's kind of lonely.

 

[alice_underneath]

Still enjoying the responses (even the ones I may secretly disagree with. )

Maybe I should have brought the last part of my original query into a seperate thread, because it hasn't gotten much attention and it's kind of lonely.

Referring to your question -

"Better yet, do you ever find yourself preffering a dominant to either one of those just for the sheer thrill of the challenge and humiliation?"

- I agree, it is interesting. But since I'm not a sadist, I can't really respond to it.

However, yesterday Mr. Assassin bumped a thread that I found interesting:

"Does anyone have experience with masochistic Dominants or Dominant masochists?"

https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=8646776&postcount=1

 

[sincerely_helene]

Referring to your question -

"Better yet, do you ever find yourself preffering a dominant to either one of those just for the sheer thrill of the challenge and humiliation?"

- I agree, it is interesting. But since I'm not a sadist, I can't really respond to it.

However, yesterday Mr. Assassin bumped a thread that I found interesting:

"Does anyone have experience with masochistic Dominants or Dominant masochists?"

https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=8646776&postcount=1

Thanks for the heads up, I had a peek.

Sincerely curious about the Sadist/Dominant dynamic, even more so than the Sadist/submissive one. I could seriously see someone who gets off on pain choosing one who is not used to or doesn't approve of being humilated or hurt. I would think he/she would revel in the joy of watching him/her slowly submit, and hating every moment of it.

Speaking on more of a psychological scale than a physical one, but I suppose both apply.

 

[Marquis]

Thanks for the heads up, I had a peek.

Sincerely curious about the Sadist/Dominant dynamic, even more so than the Sadist/submissive one. I could seriously see someone who gets off on pain choosing one who is not used to or doesn't approve of being humilated or hurt. I would think he/she would revel in the joy of watching him/her slowly submit, and hating every moment of it.

Speaking on more of a psychological scale than a physical one, but I suppose both apply.

Meet my white whale.

 

[alice_underneath]

Thanks for the heads up, I had a peek.

Sincerely curious about the Sadist/Dominant dynamic, even more so than the Sadist/submissive one. I could seriously see someone who gets off on pain choosing one who is not used to or doesn't approve of being humilated or hurt. I would think he/she would revel in the joy of watching him/her slowly submit, and hating every moment of it.

Speaking on more of a psychological scale than a physical one, but I suppose both apply.

I agree, it's fascinating to contemplate. And I can see why a sadist might find this dynamic utterly delicious. But, once again, I find myself wondering about the flip side of the coin.

 

[sincerely_helene]

I agree, it's fascinating to contemplate. And I can see why a sadist might find this dynamic utterly delicious. But, once again, I find myself wondering about the flip side of the coin.

I think we all enjoy a good challenge now and then, regardless of our label. I could see a dominant, for example, choosing a Sadist not because he or she likes pain, but maybe because they want the challenge of "taming" the other person. If this does not happen, then the dominant, who is used to having others bend to their will, feels rejected, and the whole dynamic may change. All the sudden the idea of transforming the sadist becomes one of just wanting to be accepted and not yesterday's news. I suppose it could work the othe way round too. To me, the idea of the power struggle is deliciously exciting.

Could be argued that a truely dominant person would never let anything like that happen, but I come from the mindset that dominant and submissive isn't so black and white. It's various degrees of being, and if you meet the person who is one step ahead of you, you are fucked.

 

[alice_underneath]

I think we all enjoy a good challenge now and then, regardless of our label. I could see a dominant, for example, choosing a Sadist not because he or she likes pain, but maybe because they want the challenge of "taming" the other person. If this does not happen, then the dominant, who is used to having others bend to their will, feels rejected, and the whole dynamic may change. All the sudden the idea of transforming the sadist becomes one of just wanting to be accepted and not yesterday's news. I suppose it could work the othe way round too. To me, the idea of the power struggle is deliciously exciting.

Could be argued that a truely dominant person would never let anything like that happen, but I come from the mindset that dominant and submissive isn't so black and white. It's various degrees of being, and if you meet the person who is one step ahead of you, you are fucked.

That last paragraph helped me a lot. (And the phrasing of the final sentence made me laugh out loud!)

Btw... the silence from the Lit sadists on this question is most intriguing....

Do you think you'd get more response if you asked the question the other way around? Something like: Dominants, have you ever succumbed to a sadist?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Dominants, have you ever succumbed to a sadist?

Pity 'cisco never comes here anymore considering kittycat's newly explored predilection.

 

[sincerely_helene]

That last paragraph helped me a lot. (And the phrasing of the final sentence made me laugh out loud!)

Btw... the silence from the Lit sadists on this question is most intriguing....

Do you think you'd get more response if you asked the question the other way around? Something like: Dominants, have you ever succumbed to a sadist?

Possibly it should have been a thread of it's own, but I wasn't expecting much comment on this anyway. The responses from the last question tells me that the majority would rather just stick to the masochist. Lower maintanance, I suppose. That made me giggle for some reason.

I think the world would be a lot better a place if it would just function the way it does inside my head.

 

[alice_underneath]

Pity 'cisco never comes here anymore considering kittycat's newly explored predilection.

No idea whom you're talking about here, but it's nice to see you, Mr Assassin.

And thanks for the heads up on the hobbies thread. I'm still disgruntled about the quaint leading me astray, but I'll get over it!

 

[sincerely_helene]

No idea whom you're talking about here, but it's nice to see you, Mr Assassin.

And thanks for the heads up on the hobbies thread. I'm still disgruntled about the quaint leading me astray, but I'll get over it!

AA uses diversion techniques to slowly lure helpless, ususpecting victims into his world of debauchery.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

No idea whom you're talking about here, but it's nice to see you, Mr Assassin.

And thanks for the heads up on the hobbies thread. I'm still disgruntled about the quaint leading me astray, but I'll get over it!

One of the mods will see it and post by mid-morning, i'm sure.

What about Quaint led you astray?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

AA uses diversion techniques to slowly lure helpless, ususpecting victims into his world of debauchery.

Actually, i'm just a world class flirt, or so i've been told numerous times.

 

[sincerely_helene]

Actually, i'm just a world class flirt, or so i've been told numerous times.

Mine sounded better.

 

[alice_underneath]

One of the mods will see it and post by mid-morning, i'm sure.

What about Quaint led you astray?

"He'd been in similar feeling situations before ... post-brief/pre-flight. That slight high right before climbing into the bird carrying live ordinance was like this. The need to jump in, crank, go down range, and let it go. He smiled. Just like then, caution and reason kicked in. One Big difference ... his focus wasn't on an enemy, nor even a target, but a woman. One Big similarity ... methodical planning, careful preparation, deliberate execution, and blatant audacity meant you got to do it again."

AngelicAssassin = fighter pilot. That was my mistake.