Dominant - Love Involved

[Netzach]

I would hope that despite all my ranting and raving that I have never done that - and if that has been the impression that I give, then I apologise.

I don't think you're doing this, for the record.

And as I've often said, I'm in an LDR myself with my property. I'd like him to eventually move closer to us, but by closer I'm thinking Chicago, or maybe even the same city as this one, but not into the same house. Death knell, totally.

 

[JMohegan]

I would hope that despite all my ranting and raving that I have never done that - and if that has been the impression that I give, then I apologise.

For the record, I don't think you've done that here either.

However, I think there is a sense that LDR people sometimes get that because they aren't 24/7 in the trenches physically with each other, that they don't have their own valid insights.

In my opinion, one of the most insightful and eloquent members of this board is Serijules, a woman in an LDR. I have openly and explicitly complimented her posts, many times.

There are other "LDR people" at Lit whom I respect too. Unfortunately, there are also some for whom I have little or no respect.

The difference, to me, is not in the scope of their experiences (e.g., LDR vs. 24/7), but rather in the way they interact with others here, and the relative candor & clarity with which they discuss themselves and their relationships.

 

[catalina_francisco]

with respect to you cat, i've seen you, yourself, say the same thing to JM in another thread, though i dont' remember what thread it was. and as i also said, i am not and have never said there is NO difference in real life and online, obviously there's differences, that's common sense..and i do understand Netzachs posts......what i get sick of is it constantly being pointed out. either way, as i said, i'm dropping it and moving on so that the thread can go on as well......

I guess why I point it out a lot, apart from the fact that those with opposing views also point theirs out a lot and I am a believer in equality in these things, is that on this and other forums I see many postings which portray an almost perfect image of what it is all about, an image where even when things go wrong it isn't really that bad as love is involved and it is the lot of the submissive and both makes it all OK, and to utter any hint that all is not perfect is tantamount to admitting you are not the perfect PYL/pyl and therefore not as real as others, or needing to be better.

That to me is a dangerous message to put out because not only are there days where in this household (and others who live it) either he would gladly wring my neck and days when I feel the same (or less dramatic, days when you just are not as happy with each other that love overcomes all in that moment), but because it portrays an image that belongs in the fiction novels and porn shoots most drool over...it is not reality. Reality is that there will be times when you (not a personal you but anyone in a relationship) don't want to be in the same room, when everything is not lovely, when there is not a way to do what you want and forget your responsibilites and obligations, and when no matter how Domly or submissive a person may be, it just doesn't go right or as they dreamed it would be every day. I don't see a lot of that here when compared to the lovely images of subs proclaiming even when they don't feel like doing xyz, they do it because they want to please or they love their PYL, that when they live together all will be wonderful, how great their love is that it makes everything alright....that is one side of it, the other is the days when it isn't so wonderful and the side those thinking of doing it should have the right to know about before getting into it just as much as the positive and love filled images.

When it comes to discussions of living in the same house 24/7, I feel a need to once again portray an honest image when it is compared to those who do not live together but see their relationship as 24/7, would love to live together, and see it as the same with just as much pressure and responsibility. It isn't, it is different, and the biggest difference is when in the same house you are under the constant eye of your PYL, not just in your mind, but in reality, and on constant call at a seconds notice...sort of like saying it is the same to work from home unobserved as it is to work in the workplace with your boss looking over your shoulder all day....it is different, and it does increase pressure in that regard and for those same reasons makes it hard to keep everything flowing smoothly...living apart has another set of pressures and reasons why things may not always run smoothly. I often get in trouble for discussing these differences, even though I am not talking just what I think, but what I have learned from doing it both ways. Contrary to many here who do LDR, when I was in LDR I was expected to be online through the night, often all night, and still carry out my daytime responsibilities, so it still was not an easy road to travel, but nowhere near as demanding as living in the same house...so yes, when I get told it is the same I tend to get the idea the person doesn't realise or see past the ideal of living with the one they love.

Often the argument here is if you say it is different, if you highlight the difficulties you encounter living 24/7 in the same house, or the difference in your responsibilities, you are saying it is better...better and different are words with 2 completely separate meanings. If we can't discuss our realities without forever coming back to this argument of difference meaning we are comparing ourselves in terms of better or worse, a lot of valueable knowledge will be, and has in the past been, lost.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I guess why I point it out a lot, apart from the fact that those with opposing views also point theirs out a lot and I am a believer in equality in these things, is that on this and other forums I see many postings which portray an almost perfect image of what it is all about, an image where even when things go wrong it isn't really that bad as love is involved and it is the lot of the submissive and both makes it all OK, and to utter any hint that all is not perfect is tantamount to admitting you are not the perfect PYL/pyl and therefore not as real as others, or needing to be better.

That to me is a dangerous message to put out because not only are there days where in this household (and others who live it) either he would gladly wring my neck and days when I feel the same (or less dramatic, days when you just are not as happy with each other that love overcomes all in that moment), but because it portrays an image that belongs in the fiction novels and porn shoots most drool over...it is not reality. Reality is that there will be times when you (not a personal you but anyone in a relationship) don't want to be in the same room, when everything is not lovely, when there is not a way to do what you want and forget your responsibilites and obligations, and when no matter how Domly or submissive a person may be, it just doesn't go right or as they dreamed it would be every day. I don't see a lot of that here when compared to the lovely images of subs proclaiming even when they don't feel like doing xyz, they do it because they want to please or they love their PYL, that when they live together all will be wonderful, how great their love is that it makes everything alright....that is one side of it, the other is the days when it isn't so wonderful and the side those thinking of doing it should have the right to know about before getting into it just as much as the positive and love filled images.

When it comes to discussions of living in the same house 24/7, I feel a need to once again portray an honest image when it is compared to those who do not live together but see their relationship as 24/7, would love to live together, and see it as the same with just as much pressure and responsibility. It isn't, it is different, and the biggest difference is when in the same house you are under the constant eye of your PYL, not just in your mind, but in reality, and on constant call at a seconds notice...sort of like saying it is the same to work from home unobserved as it is to work in the workplace with your boss looking over your shoulder all day....it is different, and it does increase pressure in that regard and for those same reasons makes it hard to keep everything flowing smoothly...living apart has another set of pressures and reasons why things may not always run smoothly. Often the argument here is if you say it is different, if you highlight the difficulties you encounter living 24/7 in the same house, or the difference in your responsibilities, you are saying it is better...better and different are words with 2 completely separate meanings. If we can't discuss our realities without forever coming back to this argument of difference meaning we are comparing ourselves in terms of better or worse, a lot of valueable knowledge will be, and has in the past been, lost.

Catalina

cat, i am in no way disputing the fact that everything is not always 'peachy' when you live together, that IS common sense and it has nothing to do with D/s.....that's why it gets old when it gets repeated 400 times. i'm pretty sure ALL of us in LDR's or Online relationships know it will not always be 100% happy go lucky when we are living with our PYL's or pyl's.....that's a fact of life, no different than it would be if we were living with a 'nilla partner. and the fact that you and others point that out is NOT why i say it feels as if JM was saying His way was better.

with JM i get sick of the constant 'explain yourself to me' questions and then when He gets an answer, and it's not the one He was looking for, He then says the person avoided His answer and asks it again in a different way until the person gets frustrated trying to explain what they mean. and THEN he points out how their way of doing things is different than his in a very condescending way...maybe that's not the intent, but that's the way it comes off. and that's why people get defensive and the ones i seen it done to most, are those of us who are in LDR's. that was my point, no more no less and i was not talking about your posts, cat, i enjoy reading your posts and have gained alot of knowledge from them.

 

[catalina_francisco]

cat, i am in no way disputing the fact that everything is not always 'peachy' when you live together, that IS common sense and it has nothing to do with D/s.....that's why it gets old when it gets repeated 400 times. i'm pretty sure ALL of us in LDR's or Online relationships know it will not always be 100% happy go lucky when we are living with our PYL's or pyl's.....that's a fact of life, no different than it would be if we were living with a 'nilla partner. and the fact that you and others point that out is NOT why i say it feels as if JM was saying His way was better.

But see, you feel it is OK for you to speak your truth, but if anyone responds on what they read and point out something may not be as you say or think and is our truth, we are repeating ourselves and it gets old for those who don't want to listen. It also could get be said it might old for us when the message is not understood but claimed it is. As I have said before, some do get some things, but sometimes words or response also demonstrate often that they miss what has been said by a million miles and while that is understandable and not a sin, it is when people respond with the words you feel are getting old...they repeat it in an effort to word something differently so it might be understood. I think there is room to discuss both aspects, and one side is no less valid to be repeated than the other. I see many things discussed here in LDR discussions that show some are totally unaware of what they are hoping for and more in touch with the nicer side and not wanting to know anything else.

with JM i get sick of the constant 'explain yourself to me' questions and then when He gets an answer, and it's not the one He was looking for, He then says the person avoided His answer and asks it again in a different way until the person gets frustrated trying to explain what they mean. and THEN he points out how their way of doing things is different than his in a very condescending way...maybe that's not the intent, but that's the way it comes off. and that's why people get defensive and the ones i seen it done to most, are those of us who are in LDR's. that was my point, no more no less and i was not talking about your posts, cat, i enjoy reading your posts and have gained alot of knowledge from them.

LOL, well this is a similarity JM has with Pure, and though it can get frustrating at times which I am sure both of them have realised, it leads to in depth and interesting discussions more often than not, and of the type which goes deeper than discussions which often become declarations of love and longing with little content of how to deal with something. It is nice there is support, and nice people have a place to talk about their frustrations and love, but it is also a place to discuss the deeper aspects for those who want to go there and find solutions or coping mechanisms, or learn more about the lifestyle, or share their experience and journey. I think when you say JM says someone has avoided his question, often it is that they have answered in the way they thought worked, but which often demonstrates they didn't really understand the question. His pointing out his way is different is no different to you or I saying ours is different, it is a fact of life we all are different and often good to remind people not only is that so, but it is OK for those involved as long as they don't try and force it onto others. Once again, pointing out difference is not assigning a quality mark, just showing the many choices available and how each of us ticks in terms of D/s.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

Post 64:

Master DOES control my behavior within our relationship, i do have chores, i do fix His dinner when He is here, etc....so tell me, how that so 'markedly' different than how it plays out in your world?

Post 87:

again, i have never argued that there is a difference in face to face vs the way we are doing it now, but it's not as significant of a difference as you make it out to be.

Post 104:

cat, i am in no way disputing the fact that everything is not always 'peachy' when you live together, that IS common sense and it has nothing to do with D/s.....that's why it gets old when it gets repeated 400 times. i'm pretty sure ALL of us in LDR's or Online relationships know it will not always be 100% happy go lucky when we are living with our PYL's or pyl's.....that's a fact of life, no different than it would be if we were living with a 'nilla partner. and the fact that you and others point that out is NOT why i say it feels as if JM was saying His way was better.

with JM i get sick of the constant 'explain yourself to me' questions and then when He gets an answer, and it's not the one He was looking for, He then says the person avoided His answer and asks it again in a different way until the person gets frustrated trying to explain what they mean. and THEN he points out how their way of doing things is different than his in a very condescending way...maybe that's not the intent, but that's the way it comes off. and that's why people get defensive and the ones i seen it done to most, are those of us who are in LDR's. that was my point, no more no less and i was not talking about your posts, cat, i enjoy reading your posts and have gained alot of knowledge from them.

With regard to the remark in red, see quotes from posts 64 and 87, above.

With regard to the rest, Rose, once again I suggest that you ignore my posts if you find them distasteful. If you stop addressing me directly and referring to me indirectly, I will gladly return the favor.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

1. Controlling the way you clean your own house, take your own medication, etc., is different than controlling the way you serve his personal needs of that type.

2. Taking care of his mundane personal needs during short visits is different than taking care of his mundane personal needs day-to-day over a sustained period of time.


Those are the differences I see.

In regards to #2, that is obvious that there is a difference, but that does not mean that its lesser.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Post 64:


Post 87:


Post 104:
With regard to the remark in red, see quotes from posts 64 and 87, above.

With regard to the rest, Rose, once again I suggest that you ignore my posts if you find them distasteful. If you stop addressing me directly and referring to me indirectly, I will gladly return the favor.

i'm not sure what you were trying to prove with those posts of mine? and i'm also not sure why you have such a problem with me. yes, i asked you to explain what you meant in one of your posts, which by the way you didn't, you simply said the difference should be self evident...i was trying to start discussion NOT argument, but it seems with me, you never want to discuss. with me, you always become condescending and almost rude in your posts to me..when all i'm doing is trying to understand better where you're coming from.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

In regards to #2, that is obvious that there is a difference, but that does not mean that its lesser.

exactly my point...thank you! i have never disputed the fact that it's 'different' all i've said is that our relationship is JUST AS Valid as anyone who lives together 24/7......period....

 

[the captians wench]

In regards to #2, that is obvious that there is a difference, but that does not mean that its lesser.

I don't see where he said it was lesser.

You both know that I suport the validity of LDR's but I don't think anyone, in this converstation anyway, is saying that a LDR is less valid than one that's live in.

I think maybe we're just a little defincive after the online vs "real" thread. *shrug*

JM has never made me feel like my relationship is less significant or my opionions less valid than some one living 24/7. And I don't think cat, or natz have either.

 

[JMohegan]

i'm not sure what you were trying to prove with those posts of mine? and i'm also not sure why you have such a problem with me.

Surely you would have a problem with someone who writes lengthy, pejorative, open, repeated, and off-topic critiques of your posting style. Would you not?

yes, i asked you to explain what you meant in one of your posts, which by the way you didn't, you simply said the difference should be self evident

Phoenix just quoted the answer I gave in direct response to your question.

...i was trying to start discussion NOT argument, but it seems with me, you never want to discuss. with me, you always become condescending and almost rude in your posts to me..when all i'm doing is trying to understand better where you're coming from.

These are the last words I will read from you, Rose.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I'll cut the relativist bullshit. We're all invested in our relationships, we all care about them. That doesn't make all of them 24/7 D/s. I've always argued against thinking of my slave as 24/7 because he doesn't live with me - there's a mindset he takes with him, but it needs my presence and attention to come to fruition. If we lived together I have no doubt that it would be more detrimental to this mindset than not.

I am not talking about relativist bullshit. rose and I have worked for years to get our relationship where it is. We are as 24/7 as you can be without being in the same time zone. She stated above the real forms of control that I do take over her, and there are many things she does to take care of me. Will things evolve when we are together all the time? Hell yes they will.

I think catalina, who lives with F knows more about 24/7 D/s than I do. Because of that. I totally believe that.

I also think, that while I have some useful insight and Marquis and I have talked about poly in the past, he's in the trench in a way that I'm not and has more valid insight into what poly's about and a M/f/f household needs.

How is insight more or less valid? What we know is what we know. Also as hte saying goes, your miliage amy very. What works for Cat & F, may not work for FL & ItW when they are together, or rose and I. Human relationships are all different based on the humans involved. that is not being a realitivist, but a realist.

People who see one another once a year but are totally totallly 24/7 are like weekend crossdressers who tell you they know JUST what you're going through as a woman, if you're stuck with it all the time. Yeah, I get it. Long distance can have intensity, online can have veracity - but it's insulting when you are really doing this all the time physically, inextricably, to be called out as arrogant if you point out that you are living it and might actually have more on the line and insight into some aspect that doesn't come up unless or until you are both sharing living quarters.

IMO 24/7 is a mindset. I will use the example of rose & I because that is the one I know best. She is always in the mindset that she is submissive to my demands. As I said above, when we are together perminantly in a few months, it WILL be different, and it will evolve, but that will not change the mindset that she continually has that she is my property.

I am going to step out of the thread now with an offer to agree to disagree...

 

[callinectes]

Rose, take my advice. You will be much happier if you quit worrying about what others may or may not think about your relationship..or even what you think they think. This is an exhibition, not a competition.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Surely you would have a problem with someone who writes lengthy, pejorative, open, repeated, and off-topic critiques of your posting style. Would you not?

Phoenix just quoted the answer I gave in direct response to your question.

These are the last words I will read from you, Rose.

*shrugs* life will go on.....

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I don't see where he said it was lesser.

You both know that I suport the validity of LDR's but I don't think anyone, in this converstation anyway, is saying that a LDR is less valid than one that's live in.

I think maybe we're just a little defincive after the online vs "real" thread. *shrug*

JM has never made me feel like my relationship is less significant or my opionions less valid than some one living 24/7. And I don't think cat, or natz have either.

Maybe I am just tired, but that was the impression I got...

maybe posting when half asleep is not good...

*shrugz*

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Rose, take my advice. You will be much happier if you quit worrying about what others may or may not think about your relationship..or even what you think they think. This is an exhibition, not a competition.

i do not worry what others think of my relationship, my points, obviously, have been completely been missed by EVERYONE.......

 

[JMohegan]

I don't see where he said it was lesser.

You both know that I suport the validity of LDR's but I don't think anyone, in this converstation anyway, is saying that a LDR is less valid than one that's live in.

I think maybe we're just a little defincive after the online vs "real" thread. *shrug*

JM has never made me feel like my relationship is less significant or my opionions less valid than some one living 24/7. And I don't think cat, or natz have either.

Thank you, Wench. I appreciate this very much.

 

[FluteMaster]

Thank you, Wench. I appreciate this very much.

JM, in this thread we have not, unfortunately, had a successful discussion.

If I may, I would just like to reflect something back.

My issue is not about the substance of what you have talked about but about the style that you use.

In your first post to me on this thread you started by asking me various questions about my experience etc. However - the manner in which you asked them came across to me as rude and arrogant.

And please note, I said "came across to me". Unfortunately, that coloured the rest of the way that I read your responses.

To be honest, I do not find your style of communication "reader friendly". In a medium where emotions are hard to discern at the best of times, your way of asking quite personal questions, quoting extensively, and being very blunt about your own methods and preferred goals can seem insensitive.

Now, it may be that you believe that any problems I have identified are my problem and that if I don't like it then tough. I hope not, because I suspect that I am not alone in sometimes being somewhat taken aback by your style which can seem to suggest superiority.

Above all, I am not suggesting that you are that way, but that sometimes the way you write gives that impression.

Anyway, I offer these insights in the hope that they may ease future communication.

FM

 

[intothewoods]

I have a question. Do you think the "lows" of a 24/7 D/s relationship are worse or better than a 24/7 vanilla relationship?

To a great extent, posts about the not-so-good days in a 24/7 D/s relationship could be said about marriage generally. So I'm curious - is that we're really talking about? The realities of living with someone 24/7? How does D/s affect the lows and the highs?

 

[lil_slave_rose]

JM, in this thread we have not, unfortunately, had a successful discussion.

If I may, I would just like to reflect something back.

My issue is not about the substance of what you have talked about but about the style that you use.

In your first post to me on this thread you started by asking me various questions about my experience etc. However - the manner in which you asked them came across to me as rude and arrogant.

And please note, I said "came across to me". Unfortunately, that coloured the rest of the way that I read your responses.

To be honest, I do not find your style of communication "reader friendly". In a medium where emotions are hard to discern at the best of times, your way of asking quite personal questions, quoting extensively, and being very blunt about your own methods and preferred goals can seem insensitive.

Now, it may be that you believe that any problems I have identified are my problem and that if I don't like it then tough. I hope not, because I suspect that I am not alone in sometimes being somewhat taken aback by your style which can seem to suggest superiority.

Above all, I am not suggesting that you are that way, but that sometimes the way you write gives that impression.

Anyway, I offer these insights in the hope that they may ease future communication.

FM

exactly what i was trying to say, but apparently failed miserably....and have since been put on 'ignore' *shrugs* thanks..glad to know i'm not the only one who read the posts this way.....

 

[JMohegan]

In your first post to me on this thread you started by asking me various questions about my experience etc. However - the manner in which you asked them came across to me as rude and arrogant.

Here is the post you have referenced:

FM, to help put your comments in perspective, would you please provide a brief description of the scope of D/s in your relationship?

Is it bedroom/dungeon/special romantic time only, or does the D/s dynamic extend to the mundane realities of life?

In referring to mundane realities, I am asking if the D/s dynamic applies to things like:

- Allocation of chores (e.g., cooking & cleaning up when you eat in).

- Finances (e.g., decisions as to who pays for what, how much will be spent, etc.)

- Allocation of the submissive's non-working hours between time spent attending to her own personal needs (sleep, errands, etc.), time spent with friends & family, and time spent with you.

For what it's worth, the intended tone was respectful and polite and the intent was as stated - to help put your comments in perspective.

I do consider the flavor of D/s embraced by a person to be relevant to interpretation of his or her remarks.

And please note, I said "came across to me". Unfortunately, that coloured the rest of the way that I read your responses.

I understand how this happens. No problem.

To be honest, I do not find your style of communication "reader friendly". In a medium where emotions are hard to discern at the best of times, your way of asking quite personal questions, quoting extensively, and being very blunt about your own methods and preferred goals can seem insensitive.

Under the circumstances, I suppose that your choices are either to:

(a) Respond to the substance and content of my posts, rather than taking offense at the tone you project onto them,

or

(b) Not respond to my posts.

Anyway, I offer these insights in the hope that they may ease future communication.

My response is offered with the same intent.

 

[the captians wench]

This whole episode of tone in posts reminds me of something my senior english teacher said to me.

He always told the class that we needed to write to our audience, and as he was our intended audience that ment that we needed to write up to his standards. But I found I was terribly frusterated because when we did peer editing my peers tore apart my writing and turned it into something more simplistic than I had written it. And 99% of the time he enjoyed my first draft more than my peer edited draft, and when it came to pieces that we were peer graded on I nearly failed every time.

When I expressed this frusteration to him he said this to me. "While most in the class will have to write up to reach their intended audience, you very well may need to write down to yours when it comes to peer writing." I was in total shock to hear this. The very idea of dumbing down my work was, well unthinkable. So I had to decide, did I want to continue my writing style to maintain the integrity of my work, or did I want to dumb things down so they understood it and would get a better grade.

In the end I decided to stay true to my style and take the lesser grade when it came to peer writing assignments. Seems to me there is a simular choice here.

 

[Literotti]

We know that submiision is a gift and most of us feel that we have to click with a potential PYL.

Ok now we need the point of view of the PYL. Can you successfully Dom anyone or must there be a connection also.

Will you Dom anyone who asks or do you need the connection.

thanks

Miss Diva

Miss Diva,

Thank you for this thoughtful topic.

Submission a gift? I used to have that as my sig line, but got flamed so much for it that I no longer user it.

Speaking as a submissive, I can only say that for me there must be some sort of physical and mental connection to make BDSM work. But then I am one that believes that BDSM and D/s are sexually-driven, but not all would agree with this.

In an ideal world, most or all of us hope to have at least something akin to love within our relationships. However, we operate in the real world, and it is not always possible.

When I look for a dominant/submissive relationship, I go about it the same way that I would a vanilla relationship, in that I try to take the time to get to know the person -- less their kinks -- on practical and on spiritual levels before we even take the first step into the realm of D/s. In that way, neither one of us is swept away by the intensity of our own carnal desires. But sometimes it can't be helped.

I am all for love in any kind of relationship. And without love, life would be pretty grim indeed.

-philip

 

[Netzach]

I have a question. Do you think the "lows" of a 24/7 D/s relationship are worse or better than a 24/7 vanilla relationship?

To a great extent, posts about the not-so-good days in a 24/7 D/s relationship could be said about marriage generally. So I'm curious - is that we're really talking about? The realities of living with someone 24/7? How does D/s affect the lows and the highs?

They have a lot more at stake attached to them.

I can have a bad day with H, call him up, resolve it to a point or agree to talk about it later or let it blow over and go back to my life.

When I have a shit moment with my husband (which isn't even slavery, but regardless...) it really has to be ironed out right then and there - I have to sleep in the same house at the end of the day. Additionally, he has no means of saying "I'm ok" and not really being ok, but being able to stew till he is again, because I'm there and I can tell when he's not no matter how good an act he may put on. Also, while being dominant isn't an act, it is a kind of focus that I don't have constantly. To live with me is to see the warty underbelly and all that crap. You don't get that when the main means of communication is verbal.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

They have a lot more at stake attached to them.

I can have a bad day with H, call him up, resolve it to a point or agree to talk about it later or let it blow over and go back to my life.

When I have a shit moment with my husband (which isn't even slavery, but regardless...) it really has to be ironed out right then and there - I have to sleep in the same house at the end of the day.

netz, with all due respect, when P and i have an argument, disagreement or whatever You'd like to call it. we too have to iron it out right then...we don't just let it go and go back to 'our lives' as that IS our lives...each other.....in that respect it is NO different. we don't just call each other up ..and then when we get in an argument agree to discuss it later. if we did that, neither of us would be able to sleep that night. of course Him and i spend every waking second of our free time on the phone or on the internet with each other (minus the times i'm with my best friend or at a ball game for my son, or whatever else i've gotta do for my kids) , and we've been doing that since the beginning. for us it's not just a 'relationship' when we're on the phone and it ends when we hang up. those hurt feelings will still carry over if we don't discuss and 'iron them out' as soon as it happens.

it's not like i've never lived with anyone. i was married for 5 years, and lived with Him for 3 years before we got married. and yes, that made me 15 when i moved in with Him, which is another story. what i'm trying to say is, yes living with someone IS different than doing it LDR, but i know what it's like both ways, and i know those differences and would never say it's exactly the same. it's common sense that things will be different when we are face to face every single day.....i'm not sure that ANYONE was disputing that fact. what i was disputing was the fact that alot of times it gets said or insinuated that an LDR is not as 'valid' a relationship as one which is lived face to face 24/7...