Erotica or pornography

[GuiltyPleasure]

binsel tits?... I see a drunk christmassy alt there.

Tinsel bitch?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Back to the thread subject - it occurs to me that erotica is what isn't said.



(It's amazing what wizzdom comes to you while clad in tin foil)

 

[sophieloves]

yes, i think you might be onto something. it's about a teasing of the senses, rather than an attempt to gratify by highly graphic imagery. it leaves the reader room to add all their own bits. maybe?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Not cling film and ice cubes then?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Not cling film and ice cubes then?

whoa there. I think cling film and ice cubes could be VERY erotic. Maybe that's the next poetry challenge...

bijou

 

[goliathtamer]

Claspy Things?

Pointy, perky, men's parts, and tinsel tits?

I should really drink more tea....

 

[The_Fool]

No mention of sensual.

Sensual, erotic and pornographic.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

No mention of sensual.

Sensual, erotic and pornographic.

Okay then: define sensual as differentiated from erotic or pornographic.

G'wan. I dare ya.

(amiable, slightly aroused smiley face may be inserted here)

bijou

 

[sophieloves]

the erotic surely depends on being sensual, whereas the porn relies on more graphic imagery - yet a poem can be sensual and not necessarily erotic. mind you, if you are anything like me, i get a bit erotic and erratic over sensuality

 

[UnderYourSpell]

All together now .. one .. two .. three ..Ohhhhhh we're having a gangbang we're having a ball, we're having a gangbang against the wall. we like you to join us as part of the fun ooooohhhhhh a gangbang is the thing to do when you have more than one ....

 

[Tzara]

Back to the thread subject - it occurs to me that erotica is what isn't said.

I've been thinking about the distinction—if there is one—between erotica and pornography. Let me first cite a pair of definitions (taken from the Free Dictionary; the Merriam-Webster definitions are similar):

• e·rot·i·ca(-rt-k)
  pl.n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)
  Literature or art intended to arouse sexual desire

• por·nog·ra·phy(pôr-ngr-f)
  n.
  1. Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.
  2. The presentation or production of this material.
  3. Lurid or sensational material: "Recent novels about the Holocaust have kept Hitler well offstage [so as] to avoid the ... pornography of the era" Morris Dickstein.

I know, I know. One could cite a different dictionary and get different definitions. What is interesting to me about these defs is that they almost say the same thing. (I am looking only at the first definition for pornography.) The difference is the use of the words "literature" vs. "writing" and "art" vs. "pictures." The implication is that erotica is artistic and pornography is not. Note also the distinction between the defined purpose of each—sexual desire vs. sexual arousal—erotica implies an emotional response (mw.com says "sexual love or desire") whereas pornography implies a physical one (again, mw.com concurs, saying "sexual excitement").

Given that this is a valid distinction (I am not sure myself that it is), is it even possible to write a pornographic poem? Clearly one could write an erotic one, i.e. a work of poetic literature that invokes sexual desire. But could one write a poem that merely caused sexual arousal?

I can envision this distinction (art vs. writing, desire vs. arousal) in prose, even though I think it is largely a false one. But in poetry?

I guess I don't think one can write a purely pornographic poem. If all artistic quality is removed from the poem, surely it is no longer poetry?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Dictionary shmictionary.

What do you think the distinction is? Ugly v beautiful but both give you wood? Black 'n white v shades but both leave you tingling? Explicit v nuance but eaqually arousing?

Excuse me, I have to take a cold shower.

 

[Tzara]

Dictionary shmictionary.

What do you think the distinction is? Ugly v beautiful but both give you wood? Black 'n white v shades but both leave you tingling? Explicit v nuance but eaqually arousing?

Excuse me, I have to take a cold shower.

I don't think there is much difference between erotica and pornography. The only real difference I've seen in how the words are used is that erotica (at least around here) seems to mean good writing about sex and pornography seems to mean bad or uninteresting writing about sex. As such, they are a superfluous label. Why not just use "good" and "bad" or "interesting" and "uninteresting" as descriptors?

I do think it is perhaps more difficult, especially in poetry, to use explcit language as the basis of an erotic poem (here I use "erotic" to refer to any poem intended to invoke sexual feeling). But that's because of overuse, not because of the words themselves. There are equally dull non-explicit words and phrases as well.

I can make a personal distinction between erotic and non-erotic poems based on my reaction to reading them. They'll either get some kind of sexual response or they won't, regardless of whether the author thinks they are erotic or not.

The reason I said earlier that I don't find the categorization of poems helpful is because what the author thinks and I what I think about the erotic content of a poem is more often at odds than in agreement. Most of the "erotic" poems here are not, for me, erotic.

Including mine.

 

[Picodiribibi]

Dictionary shmictionary.

What do you think the distinction is? Ugly v beautiful but both give you wood? Black 'n white v shades but both leave you tingling? Explicit v nuance but eaqually arousing?

Excuse me, I have to take a cold shower.

Why does erotic imagery--or pornographic imagery (I think the distinction is entirely subjective, "pornographic" having a stronger negative connotation than "erotic")--need to be arousing?
I'm in the middle of reading D. M. Thomas' The White Hotel now, strangely coincidental to this discussion. There's a poem in the book that's highly explicit and nuanced, but it's not really arousing, particularly in the context that Thomas places it. It's more about pain and loss. You feel it when you read the poem, and you're brought to that feeling through erotic images.

 

[CeriseNoire]

The more I think on it, the more I agree that we might not need the various categories, and instead have one for all poetry. If the erotic/ non-erotic factor is determined by the reader anyway, than why bother with the split.

Do people who read poetry read only one category over another? Or do they read poetry to have an emotional response in general? Or is it something else entirely?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

All together now .. one .. two .. three ..Ohhhhhh we're having a gangbang we're having a ball, we're having a gangbang against the wall. we like you to join us as part of the fun ooooohhhhhh a gangbang is the thing to do when you have more than one ....

Was that poem erotic or pornographic?

And can you tweak it a bit so we can sing it to the tune of "Roland, the Headless Thompson Gunner"?

 

[manipulatrix]

..........

 

[ishtat]

Dictionary shmictionary.

Ugly v beautiful but both give you wood? Black 'n white v shades but both leave you tingling? Explicit v nuance but eaqually arousing?

Excuse me, I have to take a cold shower.

This is almost a poem!

 

[sophieloves]

I can envision this distinction (art vs. writing, desire vs. arousal) in prose, even though I think it is largely a false one. But in poetry?

I guess I don't think one can write a purely pornographic poem. If all artistic quality is removed from the poem, surely it is no longer poetry?

what he said

 

[Picodiribibi]

Was that poem erotic or pornographic?

You be the judge.

Everything is on youtube ; sometimes, however, the sound is not so good.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Was that poem erotic or pornographic?

And can you tweak it a bit so we can sing it to the tune of "Roland, the Headless Thompson Gunner"?

It's already got a tune .. it's a song by Blacklace and who is Roland lol
Back to the matter in hand (sorreeeeee) doesn't a lot depend on what sort I mind one is in as to what leaves us cold and what makes us hot under the collar. Visual stuff such I was sent did absolutely nothing to me all I thought was what a berk and shouldn't he get a life? Yet I have read some poetry on here so subtle that it made me so envious that I couldn't write like that and with a few well chosen words open my mind and flood my senses not just hit me over the head like that berk who was saying look at my big prick you women out there.

 

[sophieloves]

surely some of what's classed as porn is judged so by some yet not by others. are you familiar with any of the writings of Paul Verlaine? Arthur Rimbaud? there's one in particular that many might call porn, and yet it is still poetry. i will look it out later and post it as an example.

 

[hmmnmm]

If I may intrude...

I don't know enough about poetry to specifically separate an erotic poem from a pornographic one - if, as has been said, there can be such a thing.

But the erotic and pornographic have taken a lot of thought space over the years, and I can only offer what they mean to me.

The erotic suggests, allows room for imagination - what could be.
The pornographic allows no room for imagination - what is (implants and all).

On the other hand, the erotic is very honest, so here we have some of what is... these are fine hairs.
Also, the pornographic is dishonest, pretentious.
Real flowers/plastic flowers - sometimes.
The erotic is unaware, pornographic all too aware.
Yet the erotic is unsure, pornographic certain
Pornographic: "I'll know it when I see it"
Erotic: It depends on how you see it, or what you see of it.

Ex.
I consider almost all television programming pornographic.
The woman who sits lost in thought or in a book, or looking over a lake, absently tucks a lock of hair behind her ear - to me, that holds strong erotic potential.

Poetry? No idea...

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Poetry? No idea...

Don't you ever say that again ...

 

[hmmnmm]

I'd like to amend something.

the erotic suggests what could be, yet claims to be nothing other than what it is as it suggests. Maybe even unaware of what it suggests.

the pornographic is what seems to be, exploits and fabricates what is... something like that.

this is a delicate topic.

Meant no offense... this is the first place I began to learn about or write poetry.