For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

[JaySecrets]

So, nearly one in twenty Catholic Priests are accused abusers (which their employer will try to protect). That's not a few bad eggs, that's systematic. If drag queens or Trans people, or any other denigrated group had that record their employers would be shut down and their assets seized to pay compensation. There would be uproar.

Oh wait, there already is - to distract the cult followers from where the real problem is.

And I was hoping you would go here.

Study your history. The Catholic Church is not Christian. It isn't because it never was. Christianity began in the 1st century as a primarily Jewish offshoot of the Jewish faith that was also bringing in Gentiles, this offshoot initially called followers of the way. The term Christian was put on them to mock them as "little Christs". They embraced it as a compliment.

From the 1st through 3rd centuries, these Christians were being hunted, persecuted, and killed for their faith by both Jews, Romans, and just about everyone else around them. But they were also caring for the poor, the outcasts, the sick, and the widows, the ones society left to die. They were giving to others out of their little means to show others the love of Jesus Christ. And when they were burnt alive or tortured or put to death in terrible ways, they went through it praying and singing. People were flooding to them because they loved others and had a peace in the face of the worst that no one could understand. People wanted to know how to live with perfect peace in their life and die with joy and hope. People still do. These people were being proven to have that kind of peace, joy, and hope.

So Rome doesn't know what to do. These people who deny the gods and the deity of the emperor were undermining, through quiet, peaceful, loving lives and deaths, the very power structures of Rome. Then in the 3rd century Constantine got a brilliant idea. Instead of trying to kill them, why not co-opt them?

He claims to have a vision going into battle of a cross with the words, "Under this sign conquer." Pause there. Under the sign of the cross, the sign of execution that has become associated with the One who said, "Love your enemies. Bless them that curse you. Do good to them who wrongly abuse you and say all manner of evil against you without cause." Under that sign kill people. This is already not Christian on its face.

But what the man did was to take pagan practices, package them in psudo-Christian language, and then tried to sell it as Christianity. The pantheon of God's became a pantheon of "Saints". The worship of Isis and her son was renamed "Madonna and the Child" and "holy Communion" ("communion", or more properly, "the Lord's supper", properly understood, has far more in common with the Jewish Passover).... This list could go on, but you get the drift. Even the famous "counsels" didn't create anything. They only confirmed what the Christians were already practicing and had held for 250+ years. Only with a very Rome-centric twist.

And those who didn't go along, and most Christians didn't because they actually knew their Bibles, were still put to death. They were hunted, persecuted, and chased across the globe.... And kept growing for the same reasons they always have.

I won't take the time here to show how anti-christian Catholic theology really is, but based on its history alone, Catholicism is not, nor has it ever been, Christianity. So do not equate the sick crimes of that cult to actions of Christians. That organization is not a Christian one.

 

[JaySecrets]

So how exactly does a Fetus reproduce?

How does a 1 year old child reproduce? Its cells reproduce themselves. By using a different definition, or rather application of the term there, you can kill your 5 year old. After all, that 5 year old son ain't gettin anyone pregnant.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

More MAGAt men are jumping in this thread to state what they think women SHOULD DO.

Watch how women actually vote, MAGAts.

You should probably quote them and call them out instead of tilting at your windmill dragons...

 

[Fuzzy1975]

In biology, life is generally defined as a system that can perform the following functions:
respire, grow, excrete, reproduce, metabolize, move, and respond to the environment.

How does a 1 year old child reproduce? Its cells reproduce themselves. By using a different definition, or rather application of the term there, you can kill your 5 year old. After all, that 5 year old son ain't gettin anyone pregnant.

I don't think 1 year old can reproduce, but you state reproduction is part of the definition of life, not me. So I guess children are not alive until they can procreate? Or maybe the definition you chose isn't valid to use on fetuses?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

How does a 1 year old child reproduce? Its cells reproduce themselves. By using a different definition, or rather application of the term there, you can kill your 5 year old. After all, that 5 year old son ain't gettin anyone pregnant.

So what is your stance on the statement above? You are more than willing to FORCE a woman to have her body go through Pregnancy, but if we FORCED you to have a reversible vasectomy, there would be no need for women to have an abortion. So are you going to be part of the solution, or part of the problem??? BTW I have a vasectomy, I'm part of the solution.

Are you ever going to give your answer to the above post Fisher, or are you going to continue to hide behind your shield of Religion and Misogyny?

 

[JaySecrets]

Really? So are you stating you don't have to follow the laws set out by Government?

I am saying that when laws are illegitimate, they should not be followed. That was the very basis of the American Revolution. The law in the South said slaves could not receive an education. Washington and Jefferson both, along with many others, were educating the slaves they had inherited from their fathers and then taking them up North on "business trips" and setting them free in a place they could start over. For a long time segregation WAS the law. That law was defied by many. Abraham Lincoln defied the law with his Emancipation Proclamation. The list could go on here. Point is that the law is only to be considered legitimate when it lines up with basic moral law. And that includes the protection of innocent lives

No one is about belief, the other is about who has control over one's body.

Already proved that the child in the womb is a separate life from that of its mother. Not rehashing again.

Law say segregation is wrong, but you feel the law is wrong.

That's the point. Once it did not.

Law say rape is illegal.

There are places in the world where that is barely true and often untrue. Is it still wrong in those places?

Law says murdering babies is wrong.

Abortion is not about murder, it is about removing a Zygote or a Fetus.

That is what this debate is about isn't it? But your position is easily proven wrong. You just close your eyes and stop your ears at the truth. Because the truth would prove you guilty of the most heinous of crimes, and you can't have that can you?

 

[JaySecrets]

I don't think 1 year old can reproduce, but you state reproduction is part of the definition of life, not me. So I guess children are not alive until they can procreate? Or maybe the definition you chose isn't valid to use on fetuses?

Again, the cells in that child reproduce themselves. Read the full statement. Because the definition isn't mine. It is literally the definition BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE gives for life.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I am saying that when laws are illegitimate, they should not be followed.

Courts decide what laws a illegitimate. By society agreeing to that principle, Civil Wars become a thing of the past. But hey I can see you promoting a civil war to get your way. After all your God is the correct one, and any heathens dying is not a pious mans problem.

Already proved that the child in the womb is a separate life from that of its mother. Not rehashing again.

When it can live without the mother, then it is a separate life form. I'll keep pointing that fact out to you, no matter how much you deny reality!

That is what this debate is about isn't it?

The debate is about who control their body. Period end of story.

 

[icanhelp1]

Really? So are you stating you don't have to follow the laws set out by Government?

No one is about belief, the other is about who has control over one's body.

Law say segregation is wrong, but you feel the law is wrong.

Law say rape is illegal.

Law says murdering babies is wrong.

Abortion is not about murder, it is about removing a Zygote or a Fetus.






So what is your stance on the statement above? You are more than willing to FORCE a woman to have her body go through Pregnancy, but if we FORCED you to have a reversible vasectomy, there would be no need for women to have an abortion. So are you going to be part of the solution, or part of the problem??? BTW I have a vasectomy, I'm part of the solution.

You are a pathological liar, I never ever wrote that women should be forced to carry full term. Because I personally am against on demand abortions doesn’t mean that I would take that choice away from women. You’re such a bullshitter.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Again, the cells in that child reproduce themselves. Read the full statement. Because the definition isn't mine. It is literally the definition BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE gives for life.

Yes and one criteria in there is "reproduction". Reproduction in the definition is not about growth, nice try.

 

[ll74]

Again, the cells in that child reproduce themselves. Read the full statement. Because the definition isn't mine. It is literally the definition BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE gives for life.

The cells in your liver reproduce themselves.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You are a pathological liar, I never ever wrote that women should be forced to carry full term. Because I personally am against on demand abortions doesn’t mean that I would take that choice away from women. You’re such a bullshitter.

That post was for Jay, not you. Not sure how I put your quotes in there. Those were for a different post you made in a different thread.

 

[JaySecrets]

Are you ever going to give your answer to the above post Fisher, or are you going to continue to hide behind your shield of Religion and Misogyny?

What you are suggesting is eugenics. That is actually something that eugenicists suggest in order to control a population. If you want a vasectomy, that's on you. But that's not the solution. The solution is for men and women both to not live promiscuous lives. But that's the answer you can't tolerate.

And I guess the army of women of all ethnicities who are the largest and loudest group of voices against abortion are racist and misogynistic too. You have a weird way of redefining words so as not to deal with truth.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

What you are suggesting is eugenics.

No what I am suggesting is all men have a reversible vasectomy. It can be undone when a woman wants to have a child with you. That is a far cry from eugenics.

You're just ducking now, since the prevention of abortion falls into your responsibility.

 

[JaySecrets]

The cells in your liver reproduce themselves.

And that liver is part of that individual living organism who has a very unique, individual life separate from its mother's. Thank you for finally agreeing. You are finally seeing the light

 

[Fuzzy1975]

And that liver is part of that individual living organism who has a very unique, individual life separate from its mother's.

Of course it does, that liver is no longer connected to it's mother, it was separated by birth. It is now an individual.

Thank you for finally agreeing. You are finally seeing the light

lol, I'm sure ll74 will be along shortly to give his answer....

 

[ll74]

And that liver is part of that individual living organism who has a very unique, individual life separate from its mother's. Thank you for finally agreeing. You are finally seeing the light

So the liver isn't life. It is part of a life...but it is living.

Interesting....

 

[JaySecrets]

No what I am suggesting is all men have a reversible vasectomy. It can be undone when a woman wants to have a child with you. That is a far cry from eugenics.

You're just ducking now, since the prevention of abortion falls into your responsibility.

No... The prevention falls on a society having a moral center that you deny. It falls on responsible behavior when it comes to sex, both by men and women. It falls on a society recognizing the sanctity of all human life.

And I noticed you ignore the part of the answer that pointed out your calling women who speak out because they actually have been part of the abortion industry or have had an abortion a bunch of misogynists.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

So the liver isn't life. It is part of a life...but it is living.

Interesting....

The art of pretzel making by Jay....

 

[Fuzzy1975]

No... The prevention falls on a society having a moral center that you deny.

No prevention falls on the two people having sex. You keep saying that is on the female to prevent, and if something goes wrong, and she doesn't want to have a child, she can't, according to you.

That is Misogyny.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

And I noticed you ignore the part of the answer that pointed out your calling women who speak out because they actually have been part of the abortion industry or have had an abortion a bunch of misogynists.

quit trying to move the goal posts and answer the fucking question, do you agree or not???

 

[JaySecrets]

Courts decide what laws a illegitimate. By society agreeing to that principle, Civil Wars become a thing of the past. But hey I can see you promoting a civil war to get your way. After all your God is the correct one, and any heathens dying is not a pious mans problem.

Courts ruled that segregation and slavery were legal. Courts in Germany allowed for the termination of Jew. Courts in Muslim nations allowed for the rape and even murder of women.

The whole point of the statement in the Declaration of Independence about inalienable rights, was that they are bestowed by God, not government. Because what a government can give, a government can take away. Behold your arbitrary god.

When it can live without the mother, then it is a separate life form. I'll keep pointing that fact out to you, no matter how much you deny reality!

And when you put it in an incubator, it can. Just like if you have to rely on an iron lung you are still an individual life.

And a 1 month old could not survive without its mother. Leave that child alone for a few days and see if it lives. That is the blindest, most ignorant standard for life you could have given. Funny how that standard is nowhere in the biological definition. Follow the science, man!

The debate is about who control their body. Period end of story.

The debate is about whether or not a human life is sacred or disposable.

 

[JaySecrets]

quit trying to move the goal posts and answer the fucking question, do you agree or not???

I answered the question. Read the full quote instead of doing what you always do: posting partials then feigning outrage.

 

[JaySecrets]

No prevention falls on the two people having sex. You keep saying that is on the female to prevent, and if something goes wrong, and she doesn't want to have a child, she can't, according to you.

That is Misogyny.

Okay. Time for the birds and the bees talk. If a man and a woman have sex, and a child is conceived, nothing went wrong. That is the natural, normal outcome of sex. If you don't want a baby, don't have sex. If she didn't want the baby, she should not have had sex. If he didn't want to be a father, he should not have had sex. Really simple here.

 

[ll74]

And when you put it in an incubator, it can. Just like if you have to rely on an iron lung you are still an individual life.

You cannot put an embryo in an incubator to allow it to survive.

And a 1 month old could not survive without its mother. Leave that child alone for a few days and see if it lives. That is the blindest, most ignorant standard for life you could have given. Funny how that standard is nowhere in the biological definition. Follow the science, man!

You're discussing babies now.

You keep saying science and yet you have so little understanding of science. You believe your religion is the same as science.