For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

Exactly my point. A Catholic football player makes non-controversial, according to a Christian, a Catholic, and a Conservative worldview, at a relatively Conservative private Catholic university, and he is torn apart for his use of his freedom of speech in speaking his own views and beliefs. By contrast, I know several Conservatives who go to hear intelligent, well presented, or just damn funny liberals, disagree with most of what is said, but engage actively and defend to the death the right of the liberal, or atheist or whatever, to speak their views. So who is at war with who again?

No one is saying he didn't have a right to make an ass of himself the way he did; they're just holding him accountable for his stupid comments.

And I can't remember the last time I heard any conservative defend a progressive's right to free speech. Especially not if said progressive happens to be an NFL player.
 
I have never said anything to make any reasonable person believe that. And as I said before, even if I were a Marxist, that wouldn't have disproven any of my points.

Oh, it's name-calling. That you can't even own it when you do it speaks volumes, too.
Your points were false, colored by a false narrative too deep to even begin to cover on a forum like this, springing from a worldview that is Marxist. What I said is very relevant. Marx sought to create conflict by division. His was by classes, but Marxism always uses the same tactic. You don't care if you divide by skin color, social standing, sexual orientation, financial status... Just so long as you can create a crisis that you can use. Stalin did it. Castro did it. Hitler did it. Mao did it. Mussolini did it. You and those like you are doing it.

I am not name-calling. I am being... how did you put it? Historically accurate.
 
Your points were false, colored by a false narrative too deep to even begin to cover on a forum like this, springing from a worldview that is Marxist.
If that were even a little bit true, you would be able to refute those points. You didn't even try, but rather turned to name-calling - and you're doing it again now.
What I said is very relevant. Marx sought to create conflict by division. His was by classes, but Marxism always uses the same tactic.
Marx did not create class division. He proposed a solution to it. That solution didn't work at all, but that's beside the point. Class division was most certainly already there, as was race division for that matter.

You don't care if you divide by skin color, social standing, sexual orientation, financial status... Just so long as you can create a crisis that you can use.
So now recognizing that those divisions exist = "creating" them? No, that's not how this works.

I am not name-calling. I am being... how did you put it? Historically accurate.
I don't know that I have ever seen you be historically accurate. At best you cherry pick things that are true, but wildly out of context.
 
Nothing I just said has anything to do with "aryan ideals". It's science. And I am not calling the PEOPLE non-people or abnormalities. I am calling the chromosomal makeup abnormal. This is speaking medically and scientifically. That individual was created that way by God, specifically, specially, and uniquely, and has a divine purpose on earth and in eternity. I honor and respect that, and value that life. And that person was created male or female, as easily recognized by their chromosomes. Which was the clear point you are trying to distract from.

Your response is ironic though. You attack my clinical language there then impose motives and beliefs on me and on my words that were never there. Yet when that life is tiny, helpless, and in the womb, if that little boy or girl in the womb may be born with one of those or other syndromes, or hell, even if that child may be raised without a lot of money and resources, you want to kill the baby in the womb before it has a chance to breathe. Because you don't value life. You value virtue signaling.
Clinical language does not include 'created by god'. Try to slow down on the stupidity.
 
No one is saying he didn't have a right to make an ass of himself the way he did; they're just holding him accountable for his stupid comments.

And I can't remember the last time I heard any conservative defend a progressive's right to free speech. Especially not if said progressive happens to be an NFL player.
No he didn't make an ass of himself, nor did he make stupid comments. I watched the entire speech. I disagree strongly with his theology. Yet what he said theologically isn't what is under fire. What he said on social issues is in the mainstream of a Biblical Christian, and a Catholic worldview. Just because you disagree with that worldview doesn't mean the statements were stupid. Funny, his wife agrees with him about marriage and they have a great one. My mom agrees with him about marriage, and my parents are rolling up on 50 years married and faithful to each other. They might know a thing or few.

The very fact that you describe his comments the way you do simply bolsters my point.

And the reason you haven't heard conservatives defending the rights of liberals to speak out is because you don't pay attention. Watch those Charlie Kirk videos again, and watch how much the conservatives in the crowd appreciate the courage of someone, who disagrees with their majority in that room, who gets up and challenges the argument made by conservatives. They are vocal at their appreciation of an argument made, but they are respectful of the dissenter. Look at the ticket sales when a lib shows up on a UW Madison campus. A good chunk of them are sold to Conservatives who pay to go hear what they have to say. And our side isn't the side that riots on campuses to shut down speakers we don't like. We don't drown them out screaming obscenities. We listen then respond.
 
The posts I've placed in this thread have pinned the tail, I believe, rightfully on you from the start as a jackass.
It pains me to see other good members here honestly try and engage with you and your 3 Card Monty act.
It matters not what subject you care to engage in - everything is all about you blabbering, incessantly pasting, and, thus, feeding into your narcissism. This thread is nothing more than a Dear Diary entry with footnotes from others.
 
If that were even a little bit true, you would be able to refute those points. You didn't even try, but rather turned to name-calling - and you're doing it again now.
It's very true, but to undo all you intellectual dishonesty would take an essay of thousands of words. I know you do bumper sticker think, but real truth doesn't fit that quickly and neatly.
Marx did not create class division. He proposed a solution to it. That solution didn't work at all, but that's beside the point. Class division was most certainly already there, as was race division for that matter.
What Marx did was exploit a division for personal political ends. Look at that man's life and ethics and tell me he was proposing a solution for anything except for his using others goods to get free stuff for himself.
So now recognizing that those divisions exist = "creating" them? No, that's not how this works.
The division you exploit now doesn't exist until your side shows up and creates it. People generally get along until y'all come along telling them why they shouldn't, until you come along, lie to people, then stand back and watch the fireworks. Then you, the source of the conflict, step in and offer a "solution". A very bad one. The one you had in mind all along. But, hey, as one of your Marxist heros said, never let a good crisis go to waste.
I don't know that I have ever seen you be historically accurate. At best you cherry pick things that are true, but wildly out of context.
That's rich coming from someone whose version of History sounds like it came out of Howard Zinn's A People's History of The United States.
 
No one is saying he didn't have a right to make an ass of himself the way he did; they're just holding him accountable for his stupid comments.

And I can't remember the last time I heard any conservative defend a progressive's right to free speech. Especially not if said progressive happens to be an NFL player.
Accountable for what stupid comments? Strong family values, the importance of women being a homemaker and a mother as a career move? You’re the one making an ass of yourself. You’re a globalist, a promoter of DEI over meritocracy, which by the way, has produced a Cult like following camouflaged as the protector of democracy but is anything but, nothing more than a full court press of the progressive Marxist anti American movement. Most of middle America doesn’t buy your bullshit, your ideology and never will. You are a card carrying member of that condescending elitist group who consider themselves intellectually superior over God fearing citizens. It’s your choice to rail against people of faith. That fact that you believe you have the right, the authority to hold someone accountable for their religious beliefs is proof positive of the fascist underpinnings of your Godless movement.

We as Americans truly believe in our constitution, have accepted all forms of speech to include Marxist, communist but it is you and your ilk that desperately tries to silence religious speech. You rail against believers who hold sacred that a human fetus is a ‘being’ starting at conception. You’re the ignorant one. Your globalist views are so arrogant that you believe you can change what Mother Nature has put in place, that you can normalize the abnormal, change the laws of science to to enhance your globalist ambitions. People are waking up to your bullshit.
 
Clinical language does not include 'created by god'. Try to slow down on the stupidity.
Actually, until the modernist thought introduced humanism as the central religion of belief and philosophy, "created by God" and such language was rather common, even in clinical and scientific speech. And I note you couldn't respond to anything else I said.
 
Accountable for what stupid comments? Strong family values, the importance of women being a homemaker and a mother as a career move? You’re the one making an ass of yourself. You’re a globalist, a promoter of DEI over meritocracy, which by the way, has produced a Cult like following camouflaged as the protector of democracy but is anything but, nothing more than a full court press of the progressive Marxist anti American movement. Most of middle America doesn’t buy your bullshit, your ideology and never will. You are a card carrying member of that condescending elitist group who consider themselves intellectually superior over God fearing citizens. It’s your choice to rail against people of faith. That fact that you believe you have the right, the authority to hold someone accountable for their religious beliefs is proof positive of the fascist underpinnings of your Godless movement.

We as Americans truly believe in our constitution, have accepted all forms of speech to include Marxist, communist but it is you and your ilk that desperately tries to silence religious speech. You rail against believers who hold sacred that a human fetus is a ‘being’ starting at conception. You’re the ignorant one. Your globalist views are so arrogant that you believe you can change what Mother Nature has put in place, that you can normalize the abnormal, change the laws of science to to enhance your globalist ambitions. People are waking up to your bullshit.
People are waking up to your hash browns. Ding!

Why do your beliefs get to over rule facts?

I’ll hang up and listen!
 
Served in the military for a long long time. Had some commanders that were assholes, but damned fine leaders and tactical geniuses. I'd follow them to hell. Point is leadership isn't a popularity contest. Policy should be the foundation. But, free shit sways people with no skin to lose or knowledge of the issues. single issue voters with either nothing to lose and all to gain and emotional voters make up a lot more of the voter base now than practical minded voters who can separate that shit. Anyways, my view.

Truth told, the trajectory of the nation is, with little argument, not positive. To deny that is nuts. Again, the most effective leaders, real leaders, not holding a bullhorn saying repeat after me crap these young people see at campus (please...lame) actual warriors, leaders, they weren't everyone's friend. It's business, nothing personal.
As I said - I disagree with multiple policy decisions AND he's an asshole. You can take out the second part and still have the first. I also don't agree with policy positions of people with bullhorns on campus.
 
Crisis are the border ring a bell? Who is doing it now exactly?
The left is creating the board crisis. By the way, very few Republicans have been much help either. The Dems want the illegal immigrants coming in droves, then they want amnesty. It's how they get a new Socialist voting block. The Pubs want the issue to run on, but they don't want a solution, otherwise the issue is solved and they have to do the work of governing. That's one reason some of us appreciate Trump's policies. At least he started solving problems.
 
It's very true, but to undo all you intellectual dishonesty would take an essay of thousands of words.
I've never known that to stop you before.
I know you do bumper sticker think, but real truth doesn't fit that quickly and neatly.
Oh my heavens, the irony is thick with this one!
What Marx did was exploit a division for personal political ends. Look at that man's life and ethics and tell me he was proposing a solution for anything except for his using others goods to get free stuff for himself.
WOW. Even for you this is remarkably ignorant. I don't even know very much about Marx, but I do know his radical views prevented him from pursuing a career in academia. So his proposals came at a tremendous personal cost.
The division you exploit now doesn't exist until your side shows up and creates it. People generally get along until y'all come along telling them why they shouldn't, until you come along, lie to people, then stand back and watch the fireworks.
I'm pretty sure Rosa Parks didn't need any white liberals to tell her not to move to the back of the bus, Jay.

Then you, the source of the conflict, step in and offer a "solution". A very bad one. The one you had in mind all along. But, hey, as one of your Marxist heros said, never let a good crisis go to waste.
So now the Civil Rights Act was a very bad solution?
That's rich coming from someone whose version of History sounds like it came out of Howard Zinn's A People's History of The United States.
Never read that one, and I have a degree in history.

Accountable for what stupid comments? Strong family values, the importance of women being a homemaker and a mother as a career move?
That's not really what he said, and you know it. Or to be more precise, it's not the totality of what he said. And I'm not even going to dignify the rest of your comment with a response.
 
The posts I've placed in this thread have pinned the tail, I believe, rightfully on you from the start as a jackass.
It pains me to see other good members here honestly try and engage with you and your 3 Card Monty act.
It matters not what subject you care to engage in - everything is all about you blabbering, incessantly pasting, and, thus, feeding into your narcissism. This thread is nothing more than a Dear Diary entry with footnotes from others.
The posts you have placed on this thread have only shown that you are incapable of moral integrity or intellectual honesty. Or at least that you choose not to accept its accountability.
 
Okay, let's see if your modern definitions hold water the way the older definitions do, shall we?
Sorry that you don't like actual definitions of words because they don't align with your worldview. Continuing to prove that isn't refuting my statement

Of course they are teaching humanism in our schools, and crushing our any public statement that goes against their worldview. Don't believe me? If a kid is assigned to do a report on who they believe the most influential person in history, and they do the report on Jesus and His impact, that kid will be shut down. And try publicly praying or reading your Bible in school as a kid today. And listen to this account from a public school kid, then try and tell me they aren't pushing an agenda.
So they are teaching humanism because they aren't teaching christianity? What?


Churchgoers DID protest. They did so by going to church in spite of unconstitutional mandates targeting them while leaving liberals to burn cities down and bars open as "essential" while houses of prayer, in the middle of national fear, were shut down. You know what happened? They were fined and jailed. Including by the current US VP.... So you are provably wrong.
Your arguments always come back to your religion and your view that people persecute you for it, don't they? Your original point was that Democrats shut things down. The truth is that 45 initiated that. That's the only point I was arguing, but you keep steering back to jesus because you think religion is getting shit on.

I continue not to care about your religion and your god, so please stop trying to argue that I'm required to.
 
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Actually, until the modernist thought introduced humanism as the central religion of belief and philosophy, "created by God" and such language was rather common, even in clinical and scientific speech. And I note you couldn't respond to anything else I said.
The whole thing was bollocks, quoted from the Book of Cult.
 
The left is creating the board crisis. By the way, very few Republicans have been much help either. The Dems want the illegal immigrants coming in droves, then they want amnesty. It's how they get a new Socialist voting block. The Pubs want the issue to run on, but they don't want a solution, otherwise the issue is solved and they have to do the work of governing. That's one reason some of us appreciate Trump's policies. At least he started solving problems.
The Senate bill, supported by Democrats and Republicans, did not give amnesty to immigrants.
 
The left is creating the board crisis. By the way, very few Republicans have been much help either. The Dems want the illegal immigrants coming in droves, then they want amnesty. It's how they get a new Socialist voting block. The Pubs want the issue to run on, but they don't want a solution, otherwise the issue is solved and they have to do the work of governing. That's one reason some of us appreciate Trump's policies. At least he started solving problems.
What, he shut down the bill to help solve… wow. Whatever drugs you are taking either take a ton more or stop completely.
 
I've never known that to stop you before.
It stops me when the argument has become so pathetic and rooted in so many lies that it would take a college course to unravel and fix them.
Oh my heavens, the irony is thick with this one!
Ummm... You just said I use long form, not bumper sticker speak. Make up your mind.
WOW. Even for you this is remarkably ignorant. I don't even know very much about Marx, but I do know his radical views prevented him from pursuing a career in academia. So his proposals came at a tremendous personal cost.
The man had a terrible marriage, had several illegitimate children, was dirt poor, would not get a real job, died miserable, and his children, who learned from him, lived and died miserably too. Yeah. It was his VIEWS that cost him. Let's go with that.
I'm pretty sure Rosa Parks didn't need any white liberals to tell her not to move to the back of the bus, Jay.
Nope. Because it was the white libs who were TELLING her to get to the back of the bus.
So now the Civil Rights Act was a very bad solution?
It was the Republicans who supported the Civil Rights Act. The Dems opposed it almost to a man.
Never read that one, and I have a degree in history.
Oh, you have read it, or at least ingested it's contents indirectly. If you have a degree in history, I can almost bet my next paycheck that it is from the liberal brainwashing centers posing as a place of higher learning after having tossed out its Conservative Christian roots.
That's not really what he said, and you know it. Or to be more precise, it's not the totality of what he said. And I'm not even going to dignify the rest of your comment with a response.
Watch the speech, or read the text in its entirety. He said what he said. You just don't like it. Doesn't make him wrong.
 
The left is creating the board crisis. By the way, very few Republicans have been much help either. The Dems want the illegal immigrants coming in droves, then they want amnesty. It's how they get a new Socialist voting block. The Pubs want the issue to run on, but they don't want a solution, otherwise the issue is solved and they have to do the work of governing. That's one reason some of us appreciate Trump's policies. At least he started solving problems.
Americas in general want a remedy to our border crisis. Those politicians that want this to be a political football will lose their jobs. IMHO
 
Actually, until the modernist thought introduced humanism as the central religion of belief and philosophy, "created by God" and such language was rather common, even in clinical and scientific speech. And I note you couldn't respond to anything else I said.
That language left the world of clinical and scientific speech as soon as science was invented. It is now the language of Cult and I have no regard for your superstitions at all as far as you think they should influence my life.

You whine about 'Aryan ideal', as you recognize that as a component of Hitlerist Fascism. But you throw around words like 'Marxist', Communist', 'Stalinist' without a care towards anyone who you disagree with. You say I want to kill those people with abnormalities but you know nothing of me. Nothing, zilch , fuck-all. Fact is, I know something of Turners because I married someone with Turners. I adopted a boy with Special Needs. What's your contribution to making the world a better place?
 
What, he shut down the bill to help solve… wow. Whatever drugs you are taking either take a ton more or stop completely.
The bill was shut down because of all the fine print that was counter to the claimed "help" the bill offered. Democrats are great at doing that. Another version of virtue signaling.
 
Read the fine print in the bill. It wasn't clean, and it undercut its own claimed offers.
It was a bill that address a large number of border issues which was supported by both parties. Issues with the legislation can be amended by Congress at any time or changed in future bills.

And by "undercut", you mean the language allowed some subjective moves by the President to enforce it or bypass it. What do you think is happening now?

Btw - 45 used the parole system to ignore detention requirements as well.
 
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